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Thread: Leadership Feat

  1. #1
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    Do you require the leadership feat for regents to have lieutenants?

    The feat/cohort system replaces the old henchman system from 2e.
    Lieutenants were henchman with benefits for regents. But Leadership isn`t
    available until 6th level, and it looks like it only allows one cohort.

    I`m thinking just use the character`s charisma modifier as the number of
    lieutenants he can have, and bypass the leadership system entirely.
    --
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    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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    From: "daniel mcsorley" <mcsorley@CIS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
    > Do you require the leadership feat for regents to have lieutenants?
    >

    I give Leadership as a free feat at level 6 to all blooded characters. And
    no, I`d say you don`t need Leadership to have Lieutenants - they are more
    like ministers than like henchmen.

    /Carl


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    On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, daniel mcsorley wrote:

    > Do you require the leadership feat for regents to have lieutenants?

    No. Lieutenants are part of the "wargame" subsystem of BR, and should
    exist even in a purely abstract political game that never bothers to roll
    up stats for rulers, or even decide which RPG system best represents them.

    > The feat/cohort system replaces the old henchman system from 2e.
    > Lieutenants were henchman with benefits for regents.

    My view is that lieutenants are to be regarded primarily as holdings,
    albeit ones who happen also to be people, much the same way that army
    units are.

    > But Leadership isn`t available until 6th level, and it looks like it
    > only allows one cohort.

    That`s because it the way it chooses to represent the PC acquiring
    followers through notoriety is by using total number of XP gained as a
    proxy for fame. Since regents are even more famous and powerful just by
    virtue of being regents, they should have access to as many named
    followers as they want, even if statwise the regents themselves are only
    0-level characters.

    > I`m thinking just use the character`s charisma modifier as the number
    > of lieutenants he can have, and bypass the leadership system entirely.

    Absolutely. The leadership feat is about being a famous adventurer, and
    thus is logically independent of being a realm ruler with lots of
    patronage jobs to hand out to capable subordinates -- who may, as the BR
    rulebook points out, in some cases be of much higher level than the
    regents they serve.


    Ryan Caveney

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  4. #4
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    AFAIC, cohorts serve the person, lieutenants serve the realm. Cohorts are
    attracted to the qualities of the person, their heroic exploits, their
    ability to pass on secrets of adventuring, glorious service in a beloved
    cause, reputation, and fame. Lieutenants are attracted to the qualities of
    the realm, either because of what we might recognize as patriotic or
    dynastic loyalty, or because these jobs pay really well.

    A lieutenant is a dependable servant of the state, and is loyal to the ruler
    because he is the head of state. A cohort is a devoted follower of a
    person, and might act as a state agent because his beloved master asked him
    to do *him* a favor. Lieutenants rarely become cohorts because they tend to
    be too ambitious to shift their loyalty from the realm to the ruler.
    Cohorts would make excellent lieutenants, but are often unqualified, a
    frequent complaint of lieutenants, nobles, and officials.

    Kenneth Gauck
    kgauck@mchsi.com

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    On Tue, 2002-12-03 at 10:23, Kenneth Gauck wrote:
    > AFAIC, cohorts serve the person, lieutenants serve the realm. Cohorts are
    > attracted to the qualities of the person, their heroic exploits, their
    > ability to pass on secrets of adventuring, glorious service in a beloved
    > cause, reputation, and fame. Lieutenants are attracted to the qualities of
    > the realm, either because of what we might recognize as patriotic or
    > dynastic loyalty, or because these jobs pay really well.

    A pleasant distinction. I like the definition.

    The situation is generally more complex however. Loyalty to the realm
    does translate to loyalty to the regent of the realm in many case -
    especially when the mechanics of the game dictate a lieutenants actions
    are determined by the regent. And of course conversely, loyalty to the
    person as embodied in the regent of a domain - translates to some
    attachment to the domain as well.

    Are then all lieutenants not cohorts by default? (although the person to
    whom they are a cohort changes with changes in domain regent)

    Are cohorts of a regent lieutenants by default? (i.e. they lose
    lieutenant status if the person the serve loses their domain or dies)



    Now of course for the consequences.
    (i) Assuming that a character is limited in the number of cohorts
    (ii) A domain should also be limited in the number of lieutenants that
    are attached independently of the regent
    (iii) A regent character gains a bonus to the number of cohorts he can
    control

    Such bonus (iii) replaces the charisma score bonus due to bloodline
    strength and is equal to the limit (ii). It should be determined by some
    domain value - so as to allow a character with a full complement of
    cohorts to retain them on gaining a domain with a full complement of
    lieutenants.

    Something like:
    DP or RP
    01-10 1 bonus lieutenant
    11-19 2 bonus lieutenant
    20-35 3
    35+ 4

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