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  1. #1
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    I just came to this website, and much to my satisfaction, I saw that Birthright is being updated for 3rd ed. My question is this: how do I become involved with the creation process? I do not know the proper procedures for "getting involved," but I would love to help make Birthright 3E a reality.

  2. #2
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    Originally posted by Galwinganoon


    I just came to this website, and much to my satisfaction, I saw that Birthright is being updated for 3rd ed. My question is this: how do I become involved with the creation process? I do not know the proper procedures for "getting involved," but I would love to help make Birthright 3E a reality.
    Welcome to the boards! You're involved right now by just joining the community, wasn't that eas? :)

    I believe that the development team is full. They do however read the boards so it's not that hard to voice your opinion.
    Ken 'Ulairi' Johnson
    Associate Editor, IGN Vault Network
    http://rpgvault.ign.com
    http://www.ign.com

  3. #3
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    On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 04:24:37PM +0100, Ulairi wrote:
    >> My question is this: how do I become involved with the creation
    >> process? I do not know the proper procedures for "getting involved,"
    >> but I would love to help make Birthright 3E a reality.

    The best way for everyone to be involved is to set aside some time to
    critique and playtest the d20 rules once the playtest draft is posted.

    The project`s goal is to provide a complete draft to the birthright.net
    community, and then have the community (as a whole) discuss
    good/bad/ugly issues with the rulebook until a consensus is reached.
    The consensus of all members of www.birthright.net will help create a
    "official" d20 Birthright rulebook.

    When will the playtest draft be ready? It is hard to make deadline
    projections on a fan project that is is being created by volunteers, as
    real life (and paying jobs) clearly take priority. It seems very
    likely, however, that the developers will have a complete internal
    draft of the d20 BR rulebook by the end of next month and will
    hopefully have something edited and ready for comments from the
    birthright.net community at large in January.

    - Doom

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  4. #4
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    On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Galwinganoon wrote:
    > I just came to this website, and much to my satisfaction, I saw that
    > Birthright is being updated for 3rd ed. My question is this: how do
    > I become involved with the creation process? I do not know the proper
    > procedures for "getting involved," but I would love to help make
    > Birthright 3E a reality.

    They don`t want help. Despite 3e having been out for quite some time, and
    no BR to show for it, they don`t want any more people to actually do work.
    Frankly, at this point you`re better off doing your own conversion.
    --
    Communication is possible only between equals.
    Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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  5. #5
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    On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 02:27:32PM -0500, daniel mcsorley wrote:
    > > I just came to this website, and much to my satisfaction, I saw that
    > > Birthright is being updated for 3rd ed. My question is this: how do
    > > I become involved with the creation process? I do not know the proper
    > > procedures for "getting involved," but I would love to help make
    > > Birthright 3E a reality.
    >
    > They don`t want help. Despite 3e having been out for quite some time, and
    > no BR to show for it, they don`t want any more people to actually do work.
    > Frankly, at this point you`re better off doing your own conversion.

    Wow... lots of negativity. Whats this all about? The official
    project, as such, has been on-going for less than a year. We have been
    moving forward at about the speed of one chapter every two months.
    Given that this is unpaied work, I (for one) am quite pleased at the
    speed of the progress to date.

    Your statement that that "they don`t want help ... they don`t want any
    more people to actually do work" seems to be based on the assumption
    that having more people will somehow speed the development process.
    Getting a good agreement on direction from six (strongly opinioned)
    people is challenging - from twenty it is impossible nearly
    impossible. The people who were chosen to be on the team are _exactly_
    those people who were "doing their own conversions"; i.e. people who
    had spent time thinking about conversion issues, had taken time to
    write up their ideas, and had taken the time to share those ideas to
    the group at large. Those conversions are still available for anyone
    who wants to use them as a basis for starting their own.

    It would be _great_ if there was a way to include everyone in the
    process, but I don`t believe that is in any way a realistic
    proposition.

    My $0.001 GB

    - Doom

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Originally posted by doom
    My $0.001 GB

    - Doom

    NO FAIR! I didn't get squat!

    My paypal account is lavvgiver@hotmail.com if anyone is ambitious. ;)
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  7. #7
    Site Moderator Ariadne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by doom

    It would be _great_ if there was a way to include everyone in the process, but I don`t believe that is in any way a realistic proposition.
    General question: What's with the posted articles on this page. Are those integrated in the official 3rd Edition book?
    May Khirdai always bless your sword and his lightning struck your enemies!

  8. #8
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    From: "Dr. Travis Doom" <doom@CS.WRIGHT.EDU>

    > Wow... lots of negativity. Whats this all about? The official
    > project, as such, has been on-going for less than a year. We have been
    > moving forward at about the speed of one chapter every two months.
    > Given that this is unpaied work, I (for one) am quite pleased at the
    > speed of the progress to date.
    >

    There has definitely been an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with the closed
    nature of the conversion project here on the list. I can see why; everyone
    who cares about Birthright would want to have some influence over such a
    project. I, for one, have made a 3E conversion and posted it to this list,
    though I did it in the form of a website and not as a conversion document
    and the target group were mainly my own players. Still, I was never offered
    a post on the team. And precious little information has leaked on the
    decisions and considerations made by the conversion team, so I wonder what
    is really going on in there. Others might have had similar experiences.

    I am not dissatisfied with this. Having worked on the Netbook of Feats team
    for nearly two years, I know how hard it can be to coordinate different
    opinions, and I have a definite respect for the current groups desire to
    keep the number of collaborators down. My only issue is to wonder how much
    weight you give to posts here on the list (like a long post on trading rules
    I did, for example).

    I also think that issues that you have a hard time agreeing on (there are
    always such issues) could be aired here. The list can have an advisory
    position in the project and serve as a brain trust.





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  9. #9
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Birthright-L
    There has definitely been an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with the closed
    nature of the conversion project here on the list. I can see why; everyone
    who cares about Birthright would want to have some influence over such a
    project. I, for one, have made a 3E conversion and posted it to this list,
    though I did it in the form of a website and not as a conversion document
    and the target group were mainly my own players. Still, I was never offered
    a post on the team. And precious little information has leaked on the
    decisions and considerations made by the conversion team, so I wonder what
    is really going on in there. Others might have had similar experiences.

    I am not dissatisfied with this. Having worked on the Netbook of Feats team
    for nearly two years, I know how hard it can be to coordinate different
    opinions, and I have a definite respect for the current groups desire to
    keep the number of collaborators down. My only issue is to wonder how much
    weight you give to posts here on the list (like a long post on trading rules
    I did, for example).

    I also think that issues that you have a hard time agreeing on (there are
    always such issues) could be aired here. The list can have an advisory
    position in the project and serve as a brain trust.
    I can understand the dissatifaction of being in the loop however, this is no different then not being involved in the development of product by WotC themselves, or not being involved in the writing of a newspaper/magazine, or the production of a movie...

    Being experienced in the "Netbook of Feats team", you can see the wisdom of a smaller core group of people doing the writing.

    As far as activity.... Our "closed" group has 2045 posts on our own discussion board, as of this morning. You'd have to check with Arjan to determine if these are included in the 10667 total that is listed on the main forum page. But that is nearly 20% of the posting... And if you have read many of Mark_Aurel posts ;), then you know they aren't the typical 3 line posts on the main threads.

    Early on we broached the main boards on a regular basis for core ideas and suggestions on the more complicated/confusing items such as trade routes. The suggestions presented are always taken into consideration. Admittedly though when the boards were at their apex not everything on the main threads was read in a timely fashion. Real life and the project were a bit too overwhelming. Still we cannot efficiently ask the boards to respond to every issue. It generally takes 2-4 weeks for minor issues to even begin to be worked out in the larger community. With our smaller group a few days to a week can be sufficient.

    Thus far we have yet to really hit an issue that has flared to war. Diplomacy and debate of the issue has always won the day. Personally, I find these topics to be of greater interest and the results are generally of better quality. Conflicting opinions does not by any means need to be a negative thing. Multiple viewpoints brings enlightenment and enhances the project.
    Servant of the Most High,
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    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

  10. #10
    Special Guest (Donor) morgramen's Avatar
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    Ahem...

    Now I know how the dudes und dudettes over at Wizards of the Coast feel.

    WOWZA!

    This isn't the X-Files people, and we're not the dread sewer monster waiting patiently to suck you down the drain to your certain doom. And as far as I know, there are no secret powers in control of Skinner either...

    As far as I know that is.

    Mind you, I haven't seen Arjan around for a time either....

    :::Morg looks down his sink drain cautiously:::

    At any rate, I'd have to agree with my illustrious colleges. There is such a thing as too many people, especially when it comes to opinions. The Birthright-L is prime example. When was the last time all 350-ish people (last I checked anyway) came to a unaniomous agreement on anything. In fact, I've heard of more people *leaving* the list because there is always an endless stream of debate, and never any actual progress on the ideas.

    So, what is better? To involve everyone directly, and hope that when the dust settles soemthing tangible remains, or to take a small handful of human brain matter, throw it in a jar, shake it violenetly, and then tip it over to see what falls out?

    Despite some folks certainly having posted and otherwise shared their ideas, not having been "picked" is nothing to be preturbed about. I didn't make the first round of drafts either, and I'm not even sure who actually put this monster together to tell you the truth. So, you're not really "loosing out" by not being on the team, the same way you're not "loosing out" by not being an active employee of WotC. Now, if we got freebies, gifts, oodles of cash, a prestige beyond mortal comprehension, then I could understand the "loosing out" argument, but we don't even get a cheap gold watch when this is all done folks. Nothing. Nodda. Zip. It's a labour of love; and nothing more, nothin less.

    The bottom line is that this is not "Their" project. It is a fan work, by the fans, for the fans. That means that what we are doing is based on the endless debates we've all had over these 9and other forums), we've heard the arguments and logic behind each one. We know what the popular opinion is, and what the popular "fear" is.

    Personally, I think folks are getting a few steps ahead of themselves, and are taking this entire "Us against them" thing a gorgon's toe too far.

    In the end, if the result of the 3E project is not what *YOU* wanted, then change it so that it is. That's nothing new. How many of us play Birthright 2E straight out of the box?

    Anyone?

    Didn't think so. :P
    &quot;You need people of intelligence on this mission... quest... thing.&quot;

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