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  1. #11
    Kzintosh
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    In all the methodologies used to "enable" roleplaying (read, alignment) I've found the Palladium concept to be most sound. It identifies ethics, no abstract concepts...for example, aberrant (your raving chaotic evil, if you would), principaled, etc. Personally, I prefer to do away with the concept of alignment and allow the players to just role-play their character concepts as they see fit. Oops...gotta get to work. I'll post more later.

  2. #12
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I think Ruornil has a connection to nature and sponsors rangers to protect

    the sacred places.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  3. #13
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    ----- Original Message -----

    From: "irdeggman" <brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET>

    Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 5:04 AM





    > This could cause problems, IMO, in areas like Vosgaard

    > where Erik is all but unknown and they do not have a

    > shortage of rangers.



    I don`t think there are rangers in Vosgaard. All of the nature and survival

    benefits can be had with the barbarian class. I`m not saying that no one

    ever takes ranger levels, but I am dubious that that there are characters

    who are mostly ranger, or whose character concept is drawn from the ranger

    concept. Barbarian meets Vos needs and better fits their culture.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  4. #14
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 07:34 AM 4/6/2004 -0500, Kenneth Gauck wrote:



    >I don`t think there are rangers in Vosgaard. All of the nature and survival

    >benefits can be had with the barbarian class. I`m not saying that no one

    >ever takes ranger levels, but I am dubious that that there are characters

    >who are mostly ranger, or whose character concept is drawn from the ranger

    >concept. Barbarian meets Vos needs and better fits their culture.



    As a rough guideline it might make sense to contrast the number of

    barbarians in Rjurik and Vos cultures. The Rjurik certainly have a few

    folks who rage running about, though not as many as the Vos, and the Vos

    probably have a number of rangers (specialize in particular opponents) in a

    similar way. If the Vos have X rangers and Y barbarians the Rjurik might

    have Y rangers and X barbarians--as a percentage of their overall

    populations, I mean.



    Gary

  5. #15
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    It depends on what we mean by "ranger". If we are speaking of a collection

    of mechanics, I frankly don`t care who gets what. What the Vos probabaly

    have none of are "protector, aiding those who live in or travel though the

    woods," "defenders of nature," or "allies of animals and beasts of the

    wild."



    The Vos are a culture of domination, not of being helpful and protecting

    things just because. Protection is offered because service is given in

    return. In fact the protection racket is probabaly a better analogy, I

    protect you because you serve me, and I am protecting you not only from

    outsiders but from myself. Stop serving an I will be first in line to

    punish you.



    Its the ethos of the ranger that is lacking from Vos culture, not the

    mechanics. I think the mechanics of the Barbarian serve pretty well, but as

    I wrote before I don`t have a problem with a few ranger levels being taken

    to obtain mechanics lacking there.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  6. #16
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    Osprey mentions the possibility of an NPC version of the

    ranger. Since I mentioned Sages and Specialists yesterday,

    I immediatly thought of the 2e guide class presented there.

    Looking at that class for a possible 3e conversion, as a mine

    for ideas, I see some interesting things.



    Rogue style BAB progression

    Reflex Save



    Evasion as a class feature at low level, Improved Evasion at high level

    Track, but probabaly not as soon as the Ranger

    A facility with languages which would be useful locally

    Some local history bonus



    Four, maybe six skill points.



    You could build this class based off of an Expert.



    The non-spellcasting ranger, which is the standard IMC, seems to have

    thoroughly arrived.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  7. #17
    Site Moderator kgauck's Avatar
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    I`d agree with Falcon, rangers (and druids) can be assigned

    to many faiths. I`ve used druids of Ruornil and Kriesha,

    which Falcon has suggested, and am open to druids of

    Nesirie and Avani as well. I use of a bit of re-design for

    each of these types.



    http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/ruornil.htm

    here is my druid of Ruornil, with a familiar instead of a

    companion, bonus feats as per a wizard, and lessor

    wildshape.



    http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/kriesha-d.html

    here is my druid of Kriesha, with a arctic adjuested

    class features, and at high levels a shadow world emphasis.



    Note that each has its own spell list.



    Kenneth Gauck

    kgauck@mchsi.com

  8. #18
    Site Moderator geeman's Avatar
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    At 01:01 PM 4/6/2004 -0500, Kenneth Gauck wrote:



    >Its the ethos of the ranger that is lacking from Vos culture, not the

    >mechanics. I think the mechanics of the Barbarian serve pretty well, but as

    >I wrote before I don`t have a problem with a few ranger levels being taken

    >to obtain mechanics lacking there.



    Before 3e rangers certainly had an ethos that would be counter to that of

    the Vos, and that ethos was reflected in certain game mechanics for the

    class; the "any good" alignment requirement, the list of opponents that

    they gained bonuses to attack, etc. In 3e, however, most of that stuff has

    been excised and the class itself is pretty much neutral in that

    regard. It still lingers, certainly, in text like "Most are good, and they

    are protectors of wild areas" in the class description, but it`s not a

    requirement any more, and the mechanics of the class itself are pretty much

    disconnected to the ethos of the characters themselves. Other D20 products

    have used the class as the basis for less noble characters; bounty hunters,

    woodland bandits, etc. so on the whole I think it could be used to portray

    Vos characters pretty well.



    Gary

  9. #19
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    Originally posted by geeman@Apr 7 2004, 10:30 AM
    Before 3e rangers certainly had an ethos that would be counter to that of

    the Vos, and that ethos was reflected in certain game mechanics for the

    class; the "any good" alignment requirement, the list of opponents that

    they gained bonuses to attack, etc. In 3e, however, most of that stuff has

    been excised and the class itself is pretty much neutral in that

    regard. It still lingers, certainly, in text like "Most are good, and they

    are protectors of wild areas" in the class description, but it`s not a

    requirement any more, and the mechanics of the class itself are pretty much

    disconnected to the ethos of the characters themselves. Other D20 products

    have used the class as the basis for less noble characters; bounty hunters,

    woodland bandits, etc. so on the whole I think it could be used to portray

    Vos characters pretty well.
    The prime example of this being the gnoll rangers everybody seems to be so fond of these days. ^_^
    Yeah, I can picture Vos ranger as being tenacious hunter-trackers without mercy, stopping at nothing to find and kill their prey, for example. mmm... Where have I heard that before?
    In short, a couple of ranger levels never hurt anyone.
    <span style='color:darkgray'>&quot;I like to be passionate and sincere, but I also like to have fun and act like a dork... Geeks unite.&quot;
    &#160;</span>&#160;<span style='color:brightgray'>&#160;&#160;—Kurt Cobain</span>

  10. #20
    Senior Member Lawgiver's Avatar
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    I&#39;ve been gone for almost a year (and may not actually be around long. Our Birthright group is as good as dead and there has been little hope of revival. The only players I can peice together are interested in BattleTech so we&#39;ve been playing that.).

    Anyway, I like the new look on the forums. One major recommendation however. There is a lot of dead space on the left hand side for the toobar. It worked much better as the dropdown type list at the top.
    Servant of the Most High,
    Lawgiver

    Isaiah 1:17
    Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.

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