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dmferry
12-05-2001, 09:34 PM
Hi all,

We play in Talinie, where the great the Northern Imperial Temple of Haelyn rules. They do this with an Iron fist and are kicking every other religion right into the sea.

I play the priest (NPC) with a no nonsense approach (like starship troopers movie bootcamp/geneva goverment). They hammer in that Haelyn is the only one, the true god and that work without great benift is really the only true way to show your gratitude.

I like this but the player are ganging up on me because they hate being told what to do (who isn't) . At least one player quit because he played a "soft" priest of Haelyn. Compared to my fasistic and over zealous priest.

My question is : How do you play or handle priest of Haelyn? Are they nice cuddely and friendly ? Are they militaristic (sp ??)? How do they react to other religions or other priest Haelyn not of the Northern Imperial Temple of Haelyn?

***The post was moved here because according to Arjan all priest related stuff falls under the College of Sorcery. While I would like the name to be changed to reflect it. IT hasn't happened as of yet. Lord Eldred

Temujin
12-06-2001, 03:53 PM
Are you asking how to play a priest of Haelyn or how to play a priest of Haelyn from the NIT? Priests in general I'd say depend on their temple branch; NIT tend to be moralists who value constant hard work and ascetic value; WIT would tend to be more materialist and involved in secular matters(pro-Avan), may be inclined to sell indulgences and such practices =); OIT would tend to be ultra-conservative, interpreting the law universally and to the letter. Each faith have their different views(and of course, minor priests may differ from them, though they are unlikely to be high in the hierarchy).

Magian
12-07-2001, 12:05 AM
I get my ideas of how to play each priest of a different church from the book or priestcraft, in there they give the fundamental differences of each temple domain for a guideline. Sorry I don't have anything else for you on this.

Lord Eldred
12-07-2001, 01:30 AM
While I have no problem with the way you are playing the NPC of the NIT, I would agree with Temujin that each sect views things differently. I am assuming that you have caused people to leave your group because you are telling them they have to play their priests the way you want them to but there is no reason for that...they could belong to another sect. Or they could be working to reform the sect from within. In my campaign, the Church of Haelyn is trying to unite all the other sects into one. It also recognizes other churches as being important and even cooperates with some. However, they would like people to convert to Haelyn.

dmferry
12-07-2001, 07:54 AM
The player decided to play an other character. I place a great deal on roleplaying in my campaign. While I never said his chartacter must do as my NPC priest he decided that he didn't play it right.

I know now the NIT is rather hard and that the church is very important in this part of the world.

Thanks for the replies

~dmferry

Lawgiver
12-12-2001, 12:15 AM
I think a difference of opinion between a character and NPCs can actually spawn good roleplaying. PCs who conform to a mold come out like, well... cookie cutter PCs. PCs who are respectfully disobeidenant can be fun, though blatant obnoxious PCs need chastisement.

Your PC's choice to change character's may have been better in the long run.

Lord Eldred
12-12-2001, 12:21 AM
I think it is too bad the person felt they had to change characters. I agree with Lawgiver that if the player just obediently followed the NPC, there would be no roleplaying. I think going against the grain would have spiced up the campaign.

dmferry
12-12-2001, 11:02 AM
We will see what his new character will be like and how he will react to the NPC priest.

~dmferry

Abbess Allessandra
12-13-2001, 12:37 AM
I have a character who is a priestess(Abbess) of one of the sects of the Impregnable Heart of Haelyn. She has been shown her "destiny" and must unite all people under Haelyn. She doesn't believe that it means all must worship him but be under his rule so to speak. The government that rules must follow Haelyns beliefs and therefore his influence reaches all.
My character has been put into and gotten herself into quite a few trying moments. I believe it has made the character strong and she has learned a lot. She knows that she has a purpose and is driven for that. Some things she will not budgeon, others she let's go but never forgets. I try to play her with a "try to do what is right above all" attitude and to show mercy, honor, and courage. I think I have the courage part down. I am still working on keeping my personal quirks out of the game. I really enjoy playing her. I have had so much fun developing her. Do you gear your priests toward a balance leaning toward good or are you a die hard do gooder?

morgramen
12-13-2001, 12:54 AM
Personally, I think it speaks volumnes about a player in regards to the way he handles 'failure' and 'opposition'. Instead of grumbling, whining, and quitting, IMHO, a good role player will rise to the occasion and try even harder to get out of the bad situation.

In this instance, I think you are in the right DM Ferry. If the NIT temple and government is so hard core and stead fast in your campaign, then it is reasonable that there would be a 'do it because you were told to' approach. THe players ought to either try to change this attitdue through play and intrigue, or roll with it as a characteristic of the game world. Afterall, not every realm needs to be run by the people for the people, and not every PC is going to be hailed the ultimate hero and saviour of the universe.

A nice way for the player to bow out of the harsh authority of the NIT would have been for him to decide to try and start a new faction under his guidance and/or ethics, or even join an alternate (and nicer pro-choice) temple of Haelyn. Choosing to quit the character and create a new one is just too easy a way out IMHO.

It is easy to role play success. It takes a bit more effort to gracefully role play failure.

Temujin
12-13-2001, 01:15 AM
The solution is simple: put him on trial from the Holy Inquisition, and have him burned publicly for charges of heresy, witchcraft, and pactising with the Shadow(the last two are thrown in just for the heck of it. After all, you do burn this person of the public place; might as well make it right). Doesn't help? Aw well, its still a funny way to get rid of somebody annoying :P

Lord Eldred
12-13-2001, 01:30 AM
Well said Morgramen!

Abbess, you do a fine job roleplaying! It is a pleasure and an honor to be in a group with you.

Abbess Allessandra
12-13-2001, 01:52 AM
Thank you Lord Eldred. Now go to mass!

dmferry
12-13-2001, 08:52 AM
Morgramen, the player involved is just "learning" to roleplay and if he was any other player I would not have allowed the change.

Other players are fighting against the oppression of relgion and there will be conflicts with the NIT, maybe even arrest and such...*evil DM laughter* [3 rogues, 1 paladin (haelyn) and 1 fighter (who is turning to haelyn)]

thanks for the input ;)

~dmferry

Lord Shaene
12-14-2001, 02:12 PM
obviously its a good idea not to pressure a new player or he wont have fun and will quit. maybe the mistake was putting him in such a demanding role for someone just learning.
I personally have had to accept somethings that my character could and could not do for the sake of our campaign, although i didnt like some of the things he did, I adhered to his policys, rethought out my character and have played him to the best of my ability. and he still complains (lol no j/k). although he does take liberty to poke fun at and take advantqage of him anytime he can. anyways Lord Shaene is very fun to play, I get to be married to the Abbess Allesandra in game, LOL she has no idea what shes gotten into. i get to poke fun at Half-Elfs, (no j/k Chioran). I get to get into debates with Lord Eldred, well more like me yelling at him for having his guards arrest me. and I get to be a thief (everyone knows how much fun that is),

OK! OK! ABBESS, I know get to mass, Geez you don't have to pull my ear. (oh the joys of marriage)

note: Geez did you see the DM sucking up to Abbess, FYI its only because shes a real good cook and makes us dinner all the time. although she is a good role player for a girl that is

Abbess Allessandra
12-14-2001, 02:45 PM
Orginally posted by Lord Shaene
OK! OK! ABBESS, I know get to mass, Geez you don't have to pull my ear. (oh the joys of marriage)

note: Geez did you see the DM sucking up to Abbess, FYI its only because shes a real good cook and makes us dinner all the time. although she is a good role player for a girl that is
Just remember you are married to Allessandra not the church. The church dictates what she does not her husband. That has proven time again by voting against you on council. You might want to ask Haelyn for better understaning of women. hehe VBG

Abbess Allessandra
12-14-2001, 03:29 PM
Yeah but the hardest thing that a thief needs to remember is that he married the lady not the church!

Lord Eldred
12-16-2001, 02:46 AM
Lord Shaene are you jealous about my comments on the Abbess? Are you worried that I have something up my sleeves? Can't take the competition? OK so I love her cooking!

BY the way, I had you arrested once. I will have you arrested again!

TheCitadel
01-02-2002, 12:43 AM
I think it's important to remember that priests don't necessarily make perfect adherents. A player shouldn't give up a character because he doesn't meet the stereotype set for a given sect. A priest may truly believe in Haelyn's teachings, yet struggle with oaths of obedience from the human failing of pride or independence. In fact, the struggle to be a better follower or to adhere to precepts of the order should make for excellent roleplaying.

Abbess Allessandra
01-02-2002, 02:53 AM
Andy C
I have a priestess who sits on a Council. She is constantly torn between what Haelyn wants her to do and what her obligations are to the church and her congregations. It makes for some very interesting roleplaying indeed!

Lord Eldred
01-06-2002, 03:56 PM
Shouldn't what Haelyn wants you to do be consistent with what is best for the Church and the congregation?

I think the biggest struggle is when the interests of the Church/Haelyn do not match the best interests of the State/citizens!

Abbess Allessandra
01-06-2002, 04:45 PM
You know Lord Eldred I have asked that myself as a player from time to time.

Abbess Allessandra
01-06-2002, 04:45 PM
Besides it is your campaign you create the struggle. ( I know you are sitting there laughing right now)

Lord Eldred
01-06-2002, 05:07 PM
I can only create the external stuggle, you provide the internal struggle!

Abbess Allessandra
01-06-2002, 05:24 PM
Yeah I know isn't it great. (VBG)

Lord Eldred
01-06-2002, 05:29 PM
VBG?

Abbess Allessandra
01-06-2002, 05:34 PM
Very Big Grin

Lawgiver
01-06-2002, 08:09 PM
Abbess/Eldred -- you too have been spending an awful lot of time together lately... people may begin to wonder. ;)

Abbess Allessandra
01-07-2002, 03:29 PM
Lawgiver he is the closest person to me other than my husband. He is like a brother. Although he does need to get to mass more often.....;)

Lord Eldred
01-08-2002, 02:01 AM
Abbess, which would you rather have? Me in church or the fifty servants I send in my place? Besides, the Bishop has been doing private services for me on the side.

Lawgiver, bite your tongue. Lord Shaene helped make me a Lord. I would never betray him by stealing his wife and the Abbess would never break her vows!

Lawgiver
01-08-2002, 03:05 AM
[Ow!] Now look whab you mabbe me do. Am I beeding?

Abbess Allessandra
01-08-2002, 03:06 AM
Thank you Lord Eldred. I would rather have you sitting in the front pew every now and then and your servants as well. The Bishop has been out on a diplomatic run for some time now so private mass is not possible. Is your faith being questioned?( wink that is my job) What are you up to?

Lord Eldred
01-08-2002, 03:08 AM
The Bishop is not out on a diplomatic mission. If he is who has been saying private masses for me?

Here ::Hands a beer to Lawgiver:: this should help you with that :P

Abbess Allessandra
01-08-2002, 03:12 AM
Lord Eldred I think you may have had one too many ales. I think I need to meet the Bishop for it is not ours. He and his wife have been sent for peace talks with the Khinasi(sp?) Are you telling me you have forgotten that? If it is as you say I will be at your next mass!

Lawgiver
01-08-2002, 03:33 AM
[pushing the mug aside, holding a napkin to his tongue] It semms thab Lorb Elbreb will have quibe a bit to confess at mass. Jealousy, lying, anger... hopefully the lisp isn'th thoo long.

Elton Robb
01-08-2002, 04:52 AM
[Starts slapping everyone around!] Hey, sober up you people! There's something else we've got to do.

Abbess Allessandra
01-08-2002, 11:58 AM
Lord Elton do tell what is it that we need to do?

Elton Robb
01-08-2002, 07:31 PM
Stop drinking and attend Mass at the Community of Haelyn tomarrow.

Abbess Allessandra
01-09-2002, 01:57 AM
Of course I will be attending mass, I will be presiding over it. It is not against Haelyn's wishes to sit and talk with good friends. For that matter I am not drunk either.
It seems that you do not know me, is this true?

Elton Robb
01-09-2002, 05:30 AM
I'm afraid so. I am Ruornil's Sacred Voice in Medoere, and you are Abbess?

Abbess Allessandra
01-09-2002, 12:08 PM
Greetings and I am pleased to meet you. I am Abbess Allessandra of the Impregnable Heart of Haelyn, Regent and council member of the United Provinces of Haelyn. I am currently working with a fellow who is a priest of Rhourinil. We are building a hospice for the citizens. It is almost complete. Would you like to sit and talk with us?

Elton Robb
01-10-2002, 02:37 AM
Sure. Although I'm investigating a Survival cult right now. Seems that the preacher has set himself up as a priest of Haelyn and is preaching intolerance to his flock.

do you know anything about it, Abbess?

Abbess Allessandra
01-10-2002, 12:55 PM
I knoweth not what you speak of kind sir but do tell and I will hang on your words as dew on morning flowers.

Lord Eldred
01-14-2002, 03:08 AM
Excuse me Abbess, I believe that the cult sounds like something I read about in that book I gave you. Perhaps you could look it up and see what it says about a cult that teaches intolerance.

Abbess Allessandra
01-14-2002, 09:18 PM
Why thank you Lord Eldred. I have not had a moment's rest to sit and read that book. I will do so as soon as I can."

Lord Shaene
01-15-2002, 02:52 AM
If your so Busy Abbess, perhaps i could read it for you and give you the cliff notes?

Abbess Allessandra
01-16-2002, 02:56 AM
Orginally posted by Lord Shaene

If your so Busy Abbess, perhaps i could read it for you and give you the cliff notes?
Very funny dear,

Perhaps some of our fellow council members should take care of business and have a lieutenant watch things for them.
I do have Haelyn's work to do as well.

Lord Eldred
01-16-2002, 03:20 AM
What are trying to say Abbess?

Abbess Allessandra
01-17-2002, 02:36 AM
I was mentioning the fact that one of the council members did not have a lieutenant in place. I don't know if that is true now.

Lord Shaene
03-07-2002, 04:03 PM
What so funny dear, I know how busy you are. I am really just trying to help you. You do trust me dont you?

Abbess Allessandra
03-08-2002, 02:06 AM
Trust who said trust? Really I don't know what you are talking about. I will take care of that research as soon as we get on the road home.

Lord Shaene
03-08-2002, 12:46 PM
Now dear, you know you will keep putting it off, because of your busy schedule. why not let me look at the book and mark all the pages that are important, that way I could save you alot of time.

Chioran
03-11-2002, 03:29 AM
Orginally posted by Lord Shaene

Now dear, you know you will keep putting it off, because of your busy schedule. why not let me look at the book and mark all the pages that are important, that way I could save you alot of time.

Oh yes, we all know how you can be trusted with things of importance. You'll just let your men sell them for a profit. I think we have proven that your judgement is lacking.

Lord Shaene
03-11-2002, 06:09 AM
Excuse me Lord Chioron, but I am having a private conversationwith my wife, so please keep your comments to yourself!

Chioran
03-11-2002, 05:01 PM
I think not Shaene. You have after all established a track record, which the Abbess is quite familiar with. WOuld you care to dispute this fact?

Abbess Allessandra
03-12-2002, 02:04 AM
What do you mean private converation? I started out talking to Eldred about the book. Don't you and Chioran put me in the middle of one of your squabbles again.

Chioran
03-12-2002, 02:07 AM
Forgive me Abbess I was not intending for you to get in the middle of anything. I was simply trying to keep Shania on the straight and narrow.

Lord Shaene
03-12-2002, 03:38 AM
I dont know of which track record you speak of chioron, if you are talking about weak rumors you hear from the beggars on the streets i would not put to much value in them. and you must be on drugs because you cant even remember how to spell my name

Lord Valkyr
03-12-2002, 10:42 AM
I leave that up to the players for how they want to play their priests however I go by the book of priestcraft desc for how the order reacts to others & PCs. If the order is militant I ensure that they are played out accordingly. Currently I have some fun with my PCs as their new state religion is attempting to quash all other "Illegal Cults" in the realm....


ahhh can you smell it? Its that smell..... I love the smell of a realm on fire in the morning... :)

Chioran
03-12-2002, 12:00 PM
Orginally posted by Lord Shaene

I dont know of which track record you speak of chioron, if you are talking about weak rumors you hear from the beggars on the streets i would not put to much value in them. and you must be on drugs because you cant even remember how to spell my name

As far as the spelling of your name goes, I am only returning the favour you dolt.

Abbess Allessandra
03-14-2002, 12:32 AM
Orginally posted by Lord Valkyr

I leave that up to the players for how they want to play their priests however I go by the book of priestcraft desc for how the order reacts to others & PCs. If the order is militant I ensure that they are played out accordingly. Currently I have some fun with my PCs as their new state religion is attempting to quash all other "Illegal Cults" in the realm....

So do you have a revolt on your hands?


ahhh can you smell it? Its that smell..... I love the smell of a realm on fire in the morning... :)

Lord Eldred
03-16-2002, 10:07 PM
Abbess did you mean to add that question to the quote or have it out there independently?

As for the rest of you...who decides if the religion is a cult or not? How do you determine cult status? Is this a question for another thread?

Abbess Allessandra
03-17-2002, 01:30 AM
independently...

Chioran
03-17-2002, 04:58 PM
Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Abbess did you mean to add that question to the quote or have it out there independently?

As for the rest of you...who decides if the religion is a cult or not? How do you determine cult status? Is this a question for another thread?

It seems to me that the cults don't view themselves as a cult. It is those of us outside the group that view them as a cult. Usually we disagree with their premises as well.

That being said...

cult (kult) n. [< L. cultus, care, clutivation, orig. pp. of colere, to till < IE. base kwel-, to turn, dwell, care for: cf. WHEEL COLLAR] 1. a system of religious worship or ritual 2. a) devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle, etc., esp. when regarded as a fas (the cult of nudism) b) the object of such attachment 3. a group of followers; sect -- cult'ic adj --cult'ism n --cult'ist n

Which would indicate that all forms of religion and the followers of said religions are also cults.

Lord Eldred
03-18-2002, 02:53 AM
Did you hear that Abbess you are a cult leader? How do you feel about your status as a CULT leader? How is the cult coming along? Has anyone seen the Koolaide?

Abbess Allessandra
03-18-2002, 11:51 PM
Why yes indeed Lord Eldred. I have your cup right here. Disregard the bubbling! hahaha

Abbess Allessandra
03-18-2002, 11:54 PM
I expect such things from Chioran. He has however recognized Haelyn and that means I am making progress. I understand his lack of understanding of religion causes him to be bold and wild in his statements, but he has a good heart. My fellow councillor just likes to state things as they are without embellishment.

Chioran
03-19-2002, 01:06 PM
Orginally posted by Abbess Allessandra

I expect such things from Chioran. He has however recognized Haelyn and that means I am making progress. I understand his lack of understanding of religion causes him to be bold and wild in his statements, but he has a good heart. My fellow councillor just likes to state things as they are without embellishment.

Ummm, I think there was a compliment in there somewhere. If I can manage to isolate it, I'll take it.

Lord Eldred
04-01-2002, 03:01 PM
If I am not mistaken he follows Erik and thus understands cults quite well :)

Chioran
04-03-2002, 12:49 PM
I got your cult right here pal! ;)

Lord Eldred
04-03-2002, 04:30 PM
Now look who is offended. :P

Lord Valkyr
04-03-2002, 07:14 PM
Orginally posted by Abbess Allessandra


Orginally posted by Lord Valkyr

I leave that up to the players for how they want to play their priests however I go by the book of priestcraft desc for how the order reacts to others & PCs. If the order is militant I ensure that they are played out accordingly. Currently I have some fun with my PCs as their new state religion is attempting to quash all other "Illegal Cults" in the realm....

So do you have a revolt on your hands?

ahhh can you smell it? Its that smell..... I love the smell of a realm on fire in the morning... :)

So do you have a revolt on your hands?

Oh... aye milady Lord Tallanvar one of the 2 military governors reacted to this & sent in troops to stop the state religion & is now contesting the church's holdings. The state church branded him a heretic & is calling for all believers including Duke Alisaire to throw down the oppressor. While Lord Mardure the other governor moved in troops to try & stop the fighting from escalating. however of the 18 provinces that make up the alliance 7 are either contested or revolting. not to mention that the state church & the 2 other religions are mustering troops to "defend their holdings" Duke Alisaire is now in a tight spot I am interested to see what he will do. His army is stronger than both of the governors combined. He has good magic support from the 2 PC mages Delacroix & Calador . But its his religion that is removing "cults" & his neighbors have taken notice of his situation.