The List of the twelve duchies and how Ghoere was formed.

[Birthright-L]

These are the original duchies:

Avanil, Taeghas, Boeruine, Alamie, Mhoeried, Cariele, Elinie, Osoerde,
Aerenwe, Dhalaene (part of modern day Ghoere), Ghieste (part of modern day
Ghoere), Diemed

This was taken from the page before the prologue starts in the novel "The
Iron Throne". It lists the other border nations and colonies in another
listing. I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state
similar to Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy.
My reason is that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the
Imperial city. It would not have been a colony. It would have been
civilized and settled sooner than Elinie.

As to the subject of how Ghoere came into being. If anyone remembers the
live chats we had with the TSR BR development team a few years ago, they
will remember me asking that exact question. Here is a cut and paste from
the chat record.

--------------

? What exactly happened to the two duchies that compose modern day Ghoere
(those being the duchies of Dhalaene and Ghieste respectivly? How did they
become united into one? What became of their duchal families? When exactly
did it occur? Any official rulings? How much of the imperial civil war was
put down to paper?

C: I think this one`s yours, Rich.
C: O Great Creator ;)
R: Boy, I had a short essay I did on that, but darned if I remember if it
went into the back of the Falcon and the Wolf or the Shadowstone.
E: If it went into Shadowstone, it`s now FR ... ;-)
R: If it went into F&W, it`s there to read in the free PDF. If it was in
Shadow Stone, we cut it, and I have no idea where that info is now.
R: I know that the two duchies --- Ghieste and Bhalaene, I think -- united
pretty late in the history, maybe about 450 MR or so. In fact, that`s the
reason Ghoere jumped up as a big power late in history, kind of like the
unification of Germany in the 1860s. I think that he (or his father) brought
`em together with a dynastic marriage.
R: The essay I`m referring to actually descrived most of the big
Avan-Boeruine wars between Michael`s death and the current date.

-------------

Anakin Miller

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[cybersavant]

From: Atari Kid <atarikid@CHARTER.NET>
> These are the original duchies:
> Avanil, Taeghas, Boeruine, Alamie, Mhoeried, Cariele, Elinie, Osoerde,
> Aerenwe, Dhalaene (part of modern day Ghoere), Ghieste (part of modern day
> Ghoere), Diemed
> As to the subject of how Ghoere came into being. If anyone remembers the
> live chats we had with the TSR BR development team a few years ago, they
> will remember me asking that exact question. Here is a cut and paste from
> the chat record.
> --------------
> ? What exactly happened to the two duchies that compose modern day Ghoere
> (those being the duchies of Dhalaene and Ghieste respectivly? How did they
> become united into one? What became of their duchal families? When exactly
> did it occur? Any official rulings? How much of the imperial civil war was
> R: Boy, I had a short essay I did on that, but darned if I remember if it
> went into the back of the Falcon and the Wolf or the Shadowstone.
> E: If it went into Shadowstone, it`s now FR ... ;-)
> R: If it went into F&W, it`s there to read in the free PDF. If it was in
> Shadow Stone, we cut it, and I have no idea where that info is now.
> R: I know that the two duchies --- Ghieste and Bhalaene, I think -- united
> pretty late in the history, maybe about 450 MR or so. In fact, that`s the
> reason Ghoere jumped up as a big power late in history, kind of like the
> unification of Germany in the 1860s. I think that he (or his father) brought
> `em together with a dynastic marriage.

Check _The Falcon and the Wolf_
p314, a timeline of Mhoried
339MR The Barony of Ghoere is formed from the old states of Ghieste and
Bhalaene


CyberSavant Matrix Guide
cybersavant.tripod.com/cybersavantsmatrix/
RingMaster of the star_trek_interactive webring [webring.org]
www.geocities.com/thorazbrynaziir
ICQ: 78031576 AIM: cybrsvnt
Gaming since 1980!

Imagine. Act. Write. Role-play!

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Raesene Andu]

Orginally posted by Birthright-L

This was taken from the page before the prologue starts in the novel "The
Iron Throne". It lists the other border nations and colonies in another
listing. I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state
similar to Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy.
My reason is that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the
Imperial city. It would not have been a colony. It would have been
civilized and settled sooner than Elinie.



Although the same could be said for Cariele, it is actually seperated from Anuire by a physical barrier (Like Talinie) on the other side of the Stonecrown mountains, while Elinie is in the heartland of Anuire, roughly the same distance from the capital as Boeruine, Mhoried, and Osoerde.

Brosengae is a little bit more difficult to explain, but I have always assumed that it was part of Taeghas, only to be lost some time in the past. The fact that Eriene Mierelen refers to herself as duchess is not conclusive, especially when you look at the range of titles that have appeared since the fall of the empire (King/Queen of Aerenwe for example). The fact that Taeghas was a duchy and is now ruled by a count is important. Most likely what has occured here is a civil war some time in the past, with the rightful duke of Taeghas being overthrown and exiled to the lower three provinces (thus forming Brosengae) and his usurper, a count obviously, taking over Taeghas proper. Thus we get Taeghas, one of the original 12 duchies now being ruled over by a relativly minor noble, and Brosengae, a small, seemingly insignificant realm, ruled by a duchess.

[Starfox]

Atari Kid <atarikid@CHARTER.NET> wrote at 02-09-19 00.09:

> I still am under the impression that Elinie was a colony state similar to
> Talinie and that Brosengae should have been listed as a Duchy. My reason is
> that it is ajacent to Avanil and extremely close to the Imperial city. It
> would not have been a colony. It would have been civilized and settled sooner
> than Elinie.

I think it is reasonable that Eline was colonized befre Brosengae.

Brosengae is rough country, Eline fertile plains along the great river of
the heartlands. Distance is not as important as fertility and accessibility
when early cultures colonize.

But I have no support whatsoever from the books either way - I was just
trying to "think medieval" here.

/Carl Cramér

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Magian]

>From: Raesene Andu <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>

>The fact that Eriene Mierelen refers to herself as duchess is not
> >conclusive, especially when you look at the range of titles that have
> >appeared since the fall of the empire (King/Queen of Aerenwe for
> >example).

It is my opinion that the title of King for Aerenwe is an act of renouncing
all ties to imperial status. A claim of sovereignty in which they are only
answerable to Haelyn (or other deity).

>The fact that Taeghas was a duchy and is now ruled by a count is
> >important.

The title count for Harald Khorien in my opinion is due to the fact that he
only owns law in one province. I think there is a tie to this somehow.
Also a good puppet for Avan to control.



__________________________________________________ _______________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Trithemius]

Magian:
> It is my opinion that the title of King for Aerenwe is an act
> of renouncing all ties to imperial status. A claim of
> sovereignty in which they are only answerable to Haelyn (or
> other deity).

I think that the Kings of Aerenwe were just crazy despots. I infer this
from the mismanagement of the war against Daen Roesone and the ultimate
overthrow of that demented line by Liliene Swordwraith. YBRMV

> The title count for Harald Khorien in my opinion is due to
> the fact that he only owns law in one province. I think
> there is a tie to this somehow. Also a good puppet for Avan
> to control.

Poor of Harald. He should be a much higher level wizard if all he does
is study IMO.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.