Picking Blood Abilities.

[geeman]

How do you guys determine blood abilities? That is, do you roll them
randomly or pick them?

I`m curious because the point was recently made in my group that in 3e one
can do character generation without any random factors at all using the
point buy system, but unless one can pick and choose blood abilities the BR
bloodline system is still random. I usually avoid random aspects of
character generation, so I`m considering allowing players to just choose
they abilities.

Anyone have opinions on this?

Gary

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[Cobos]

Gary wrote:
>
> How do you guys determine blood abilities? That is, do you roll them
> randomly or pick them?
>
> I`m curious because the point was recently made in my group that in 3e one
> can do character generation without any random factors at all using the
> point buy system, but unless one can pick and choose blood abilities the BR
> bloodline system is still random. I usually avoid random aspects of
> character generation, so I`m considering allowing players to just choose
> they abilities.
>
> Anyone have opinions on this?
>
> Gary
>
I beleive I will in my own soon-to-start campaign (any signs of the BRCS
? :)
let the players choose with the limitation that as with everything else
the
final decision is mine. The only problem I have with this is that the
Bloodmark
ability is probably not going to very popular even though if I manage to
play
it properly it can be very powerful... But my players might suprise me
:)

Cobos

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[Ariadne]

In our campaign all things are rolled. The best of all alternatives, I think. If you role a great bloodline with elemental control or bloodtrait, you have it (without disadvantages, of cause).

To pick all abilities AND bloodline takes a lot of fun...

[geeman]

At 06:52 PM 9/4/2002 +0200, Sindre/Cobos wrote:

>The only problem I have with this is that the Bloodmark ability is
>probably not going to very popular even though if I manage to play it
>properly it can be very powerful... But my players might suprise me
>:)

Yeah, that`s my concern. I want to expand the list of blood abilities
quite a bit, but I`m worried that certain blood abilities will just be
"more popular" than others if PCs can choose them rather than roll them
randomly.

Also, I kind of like the random factor just because it strikes me as the
kind of thing that shouldn`t really be in the player`s control. Aside from
being yet another min/maxing possibility for players inclined towards such
things, it just seems to me like the kind of thing a player shouldn`t have
control over. Players can pick their PC`s eye color, but picking blood
abilities seems like picking your own eye color....

I usually go with a point buy system for ability scores, so I guess
choosing blood abilities shouldn`t be that great a leap. I`m just not
convinced it`s the way to go.

Gary

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[Birthright-L]

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Gary wrote:

> At 06:52 PM 9/4/2002 +0200, Sindre/Cobos wrote:
>
> >The only problem I have with this is that the Bloodmark ability is
> >probably not going to very popular even though if I manage to play it
>
> Yeah, that`s my concern. I want to expand the list of blood abilities
> quite a bit, but I`m worried that certain blood abilities will just be
> "more popular" than others if PCs can choose them rather than roll them

Then what you need is a better set of point values for them. If you think
no one will want Bloodmark, then make it nearly free. If you think
everyone will want Long Life, then make it prohibitively expensive. This
is simply a restatement of the observation that not all blood abilities
are created equal, not even all blood abilities at the same level
(minor/major/great) or of the same name but different bloodlines (Travel,
for example, is much more useful from some derivations than from others).
Constructing an optimally balanced list will be challenging, and probably
will need to vary based upon campaign and player style preferences, but
mostly it just requires making the more powerful ones harder to get.

> I usually go with a point buy system for ability scores, so I guess
> choosing blood abilities shouldn`t be that great a leap.

That`s my feeling. It`s what I`d like to do next time I start a campaign,
but I have many other things to do before I come up with the point value
chart. =) There was a PBEM some time ago that I joined just before it
never got off the ground that had a character creation system that did
everything at once: you bought regent stats, level, and bloodline with the
same pool of points you used to buy the realm. I am partial to the idea,
though I`m not sure I`d do absolutely everything at once that way --
still, I like the idea of starting a campaign in which characters could
trade off between stats, bloodline+powers, and at-start XP.


Ryan Caveney

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[Birthright-L]

Hello,

I let the players choose their bloodline and blood abilities. We discus
the subject together, and depending on the character history and things like
that... I have always the final decission, but normally we get an agreement
quite easily (and if you are going to ask it: all my players are not major
and great bloodlines, they know all the head-aches such a big bloodline can
give ;).

Vicente

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[kgauck]

I want players to develope a character concept. So there is some discussion
of the character. We start with things like class, name, appearance, style.
Then the player developes a backround, and begins to outline what he might
like to be doing at mid-level. With this stuff in mind, we start building
the mechanics of the character.

Players pick their bloodline derivation to suit their character concept.
They identify a bloodpower they would like to have. I wait to see if they
roll it. If they do, no problem, do nothing. If they don`t get it I take
one of two paths.

A) I have substituted the final role for the hoped for blood power. I
generally do this when it makes more sense not to let a player begin to
select spells, feats, or abilities to substitute for it. The less powerful
the blood power, the more likely I am to go this way. If someone wants
their family`s bloodmark, they`re going to get it.

B) I have also held off on a final role and told the player to wait. I
generally do this when their score is close to another roll on table 12, and
I`d just as soon give them their desired major power as a reward after
defeating a blooded enemy.

So, there is a combination of dice and selection.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Sellenus]

We've chosen to randomly roll. You can chose where you are headed (Feats, Skills) but not where you've started from (Bloodline).

By the way if I could choose, I'd still take Bloodmark.

[Sir Justine]

IMC I make my players roll. But I'm not too rigid - if comes a bloodline they REALLY don't like I let then roll again.
For some strange reason, there is one player who aways rolls again until he gets heightned ability... :P

[Perhelion]

After they've rolled how many minor, major.. etc. powers they can have, I usually let them choose their bloodline derivation and one power they would be able to have from their roll. All other powers are determined randomly. Any power which they REALLY don't like, I consider whether it would go with the character concept they have chosen. If I think it does stick with the concept, they keep it. Otherwise, they can roll again.
But I'm usually quite flexible un;ess they try to abuse the system. Any bloodpower chosen for roleplaying reasons is fine by me.

[Onwen Agelmore]

Orginally posted by Sir Justine

IMC I make my players roll. But I'm not too rigid - if comes a bloodline they REALLY don't like I let then roll again.
For some strange reason, there is one player who aways rolls again until he gets heightned ability... :P

I´m just a lucky guy

[Birthright-L]

Up until now, picking bloodabilities has always been the responsibility of
the DM (i.e. me), and I intend to keep it that way for several reasons.

First, I believe that the players already have enough freedom of choice,
when it comes to creating their characters. Blood abilities in my view are
an additional set of extra abilities. I dislike the randomness of dice
rolling using the tables, because the effort of stringing together, i.e.
rationalizing, the results into a coherent whole can be difficult (And the
official tables are really bogged).

Second, letting players chose their own abilities has several disadvantages.
1) Novice players already have a lot to learn about the game and
bloodabilities would add another level of complexity. This might seem
negligible, as the blood abilities only take up a small number of pages in
the rulebook, but my - German - players often aren`t that fluent in English
and the more I can spare them to read the better. 2) I believe most players
would choose abilities that support those their characters already have
(Fighters taking Battlewise or Iron Will, Clerics choosing Healing etc.) and
by assigning the abilities myself I can lead the players a little bit off
the beaten track.

However, the most important reason to choose the abilities myself is to
preserve their mystery. I`d guess that most players who have chosen their
own blood abilities would treat them as just another set of tools, like
their character abilities or spells, without thinking too much about them.
Assigning them their abilities, on the other hand, might make them curious
about the history of their bloodlines and that might give me an adventure
idea or two.

So far, my players have been content with this arrangement.

I make one exception though. I decided to give the bloodmark ability to
every scion, PC or NPC, with at least a minor bloodline. That bloodmark
mustn`t be as prominent as Darien Avans and the players may choose its
appearance for themselves.

Christoph Tiemann

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[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Birthright-L

I make one exception though. I decided to give the bloodmark ability to every scion, PC or NPC, with at least a minor bloodline.
To do this makes the bloodmark something very normal. My character has it too (roled) and I don't think, it should be so often...


Originally posted by Birthright-L

Assigning them their abilities, on the other hand, might make them curious about the history of their bloodlines and that might give me an adventure idea or two.
Makes sense, but a bloodline should be a mystery! You should only let them get these blood abilities more often, which are known in the family history. All others should be got randomly (naturally, if someone hates a specific blood ability, it should be roles anew)...

[Trithemius]

Gary:
> Also, I kind of like the random factor just because it
> strikes me as the kind of thing that shouldn`t really be in
> the player`s control. Aside from being yet another
> min/maxing possibility for players inclined towards such
> things, it just seems to me like the kind of thing a player
> shouldn`t have control over. Players can pick their PC`s eye
> color, but picking blood abilities seems like picking your
> own eye color....

Which PCs can do anyway ;)

I think that the way to go here is to make the bloodline for the PC. Let
them make their character and then build a bloodline around them, in
much the same way as you might for an NPC. Throw in quirks, take some
suggestions, try and avoid giving pacifist wizard PCs Berserker Blood or
Battlewise, and so on.

I have actually thought about making up the PCs in advance and giving
the players a choice of them. The only problem with this is that some
people really like to make up their characters and often they`ll have
ideas that one person might not.

> I usually go with a point buy system for ability scores, so I
> guess choosing blood abilities shouldn`t be that great a
> leap. I`m just not convinced it`s the way to go.

Join the Dark Side Gary! ;)

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Cobos:
> I beleive I will in my own soon-to-start campaign (any signs
> of the BRCS ? :) let the players choose with the limitation
> that as with everything else the final decision is mine. The
> only problem I have with this is that the Bloodmark ability
> is probably not going to very popular even though if I manage
> to play it properly it can be very powerful... But my players
> might suprise me
> :)

I give Bloodmark to everyone pretty much. I figure that the power makes
itself obvious in most cases - either through physical signs or just
"feelings" that people get when a scion is near. The exception to this
is if they are of a Brenna line with a particularly sneaky bent. I
actually have thought that a power for scions of Brenna could be the
ability to disguise or totally conceal (depending on the power`s level)
the signs that mark a person as a scion.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Gary:
> How do you guys determine blood abilities? That is, do you
> roll them randomly or pick them?

I do a bit of both actually. If players can come up with something good
then I`ll allow it. Likewise if something seems totally appropriate for
an NPC I will give it to them. When I am stumped, I roll.

> I`m curious because the point was recently made in my group
> that in 3e one can do character generation without any random
> factors at all using the point buy system, but unless one can
> pick and choose blood abilities the BR bloodline system is
> still random. I usually avoid random aspects of character
> generation, so I`m considering allowing players to just
> choose they abilities.

I go a bit further. I decide that people should access a power according
to a table. Every increment gives one power. This prevents anomalies
like the Great bloodline with a few minor powers. I include a section of
the table to allow total randomisation (for NPCs when I am bored) but
most of the time I put the bloodline together quite deliberately. I like
to think: `What powers would make a young person develop into this
character` and work backwards. With some quick rules I made up for
determining which powers are inherited I can decide what a character`s
parents, relatives, ancestors and descendents would, did, or do have.

I hate the idea that dice could get in the way of a great character
concept.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Birthright-L]

Gary <geeman@SOFTHOME.NET> wrote at 02-09-04 18.38:

> I`m curious because the point was recently made in my group that in 3e one
> can do character generation without any random factors at all using the
> point buy system, but unless one can pick and choose blood abilities the BR
> bloodline system is still random. I usually avoid random aspects of
> character generation, so I`m considering allowing players to just choose
> they abilities.

I let my players use attribute buy points to puchase bloodlines [2 points =
5 bloodline].

I then let them puchase abilities from their bloodline points: minor =5,
major = 10, great = 20

More on this at http://my.homeip.net/abbe/birthright/rules...s/generate.html (http://my.homeip.net/abbe/birthright/rules/generate.html)

/Carl

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