D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR?

[Valcian_VO]

Hey guys-
Long time reader, first time poster :) I was just curious as to if any of you other BR nuts out there (that was meant in the best possible way!) had found any useful CURRENT supplements to your BR campaign... with the D20 publishing craze going strong, is there anything published (or will soon be published) that strengthens your BR games? I've been looking into a lot of Mongoose supplements (The Complete Handbooks and Sea of Blood, to be specific), as well as Eden's oft-looked-forward-to-but-not-yet-seen Fields of Blood, dealing with a D20 fighting system. These are just a few of the books that I look at with interest, but I know there are many, many more out there. Anyone find other useful books? Please, let me know! I'm always looking for ways to improve my campaign (which has, sadly, yet to start-- but it will soon!), so keep me posted. Thanks!

Valcian Van'Orden
Cheesy name, but heck- it's a game!

[Ariadne]

As I have heard, a castle building book is on the way to be published. If you play in Anuire, it will be a good addition to the campaign, I think.

If you play a priest, there are less good books published. The only is "deities and demigods" combined with the "epic level handbook", than you can create Birthright 3rd edition gods for your own.

Mongoose complete handbooks are a very close copy to their 2nd edition version. As I can tell, the fighter's handbook is very good and the thief's (rogue's) handbook promising. The others I haven't seen until now.

[Azrai]

There are indeed several Birthright-like books around.

One is "Stronghold Builder Guidbook" from Wizards, other sare "Battle Magic", "War" or "Knights" from other publishers.

However, none of these reaches the spirit and quality of the birhtright campaigns.

[Azrai]

Further there are several mass-combat systems around. one, which is comparable to the birhtright sk-combat-rules, is presented in the quintessential fighter from mongoose.

[Birthright-L]

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Valcian_VO wrote:
> Hey guys-
> Long time reader, first time poster :) I was just curious as to if
> any of you other BR nuts out there (that was meant in the best
> possible way!) had found any useful CURRENT supplements to your BR
> campaign... with the D20 publishing craze going strong, is there
> anything published (or will soon be published) that strengthens your
> BR games? I`ve been looking into a lot of Mongoose supplements (The
> Complete Handbooks and Sea of Blood, to be specific), as well as
> Eden`s oft-looked-forward-to-but-not-yet-seen Fields of Blood, dealing
> with a D20 fighting system. These are just a few of the books that I
> look at with interest, but I know there are many, many more out there.
> Anyone find other useful books? Please, let me know! I`m always
> looking for ways to improve my campaign (which has, sadly, yet to
> start-- but it will soon!), so keep me posted. Thanks!

Requiem for a God, Malhavoc Press. Very similar in theme to BR, might be
useful for an immediately-post-Deismaar type game.
<http://www.enworld.com/d20reviews.asp?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=RFAG>
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[kgauck]

The Mongoose Cleric sup was very good. It had some nice things to bridge
the gap between individual clerics and temple holdings in its sections on
congregations and conversions.

I also got AEG`s mercenaries, which I like. Its got some nice things on the
hiring of mercenaries, what alignment means to mercenaries, and costs and so
forth. Plus its got enough extra fighter stuff that it doubles as a
guidebook for fighters.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[A_dark]

A brief description of the Kingdom of Kalamar setting really sounds like BR. But I only read the brief description of the setting.

[Azrai]

Kalamar: My 3. Edition campaign is in the Kalamar Setting. It's not really the same flair as birhtright, but it's very close.

- the world history is nearly the same (flight over the landbridge)

- middle-age realism, low-level characters and low-magic

- kingdom-structure

- different human races

I can recommend the Kalamar Players Handbook, which is a good addition to the basic-D&D-rules or the Kingdoms of Kalamar Campaign Book.

[Eosin the Red]

Wheel of Time RPG has many useful things for BIRTHRIGHT. The world is based
around low occurrence but high powered magic much like BIRTHRIGHT. The
classes, except for `wizard` do not have a magical component to them. I
think (I am biased) that it would make a much better system than standard
D&D, of course you would have to add cleric and paladin in to the game.

Eosin the Red

----- Original Message -----
From: "Azrai" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR? [2#913]


> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at:
http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=913
>
> Azrai wrote:
> Kalamar: My 3. Edition campaign is in the Kalamar Setting. It`s not
really the same flair as birhtright, but it`s very close.
>
> - the world history is nearly the same (flight over the landbridge)
>
> - middle-age realism, low-level characters and low-magic
>
> - kingdom-structure
>
> - different human races
>
> I can recommend the Kalamar Players Handbook, which is a good addition to
the basic-D&D-rules or the Kingdoms of Kalamar Campaign Book.
>
>
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[Trithemius]

Eosin the Red:
> Wheel of Time RPG has many useful things for BIRTHRIGHT. The
> world is based around low occurrence but high powered magic
> much like BIRTHRIGHT. The classes, except for `wizard` do not
> have a magical component to them. I think (I am biased) that
> it would make a much better system than standard D&D, of
> course you would have to add cleric and paladin in to the game.

Wheel of Time? I`ll come out and say that I don`t much like the setting.
Seven books was about three books to many in my opinion and I stopped
reading them a long time ago so I suspect there are probably ten by now
with a lot more coming.

At first glance I don`t know if the magic system would suit and this
might reduce its portablity. At second glance I`m not sure that it
really has anything that can`t be gained by simply adapting some of the
NPC Classes a bit to make them more playable, as some people around here
(myself included) have suggested.

I say (and if people didn`t see this one coming then I am a rogue four
levels higher than them) that people who are seriously looking for a new
system for BR and not just a-D20-by-any-other-name should take a very
close look at Ars Magica. Do it for yourself, do it for me, do it in the
vain hope that one day I`ll shut up about it ;)

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Eosin the Red]

John,

D&D vs WoT D20 - while they are the same game WoT has many flavors that are inherent to BR. You do not have to like the books to like the RPG.

3/4th of the PHB Classes have inherent magic to them - this is not for my style of play, it not only pulls me to WoT but is also what pulls me to BR. You can adapt some of the NPC classes - but that is aready done for you in WoT. The system makes small changes to assume a magic poor world, rather than the "No Detection Spells" type of world typified by D&D.

It is a strait d20 and that is its appeal (masses) - only the clothes have been changed similar to the treatment done to Star Wars. If you were looking for an entirly different game, Ars Magica might work - of course that is what most of the people suggest for Wheel of Time because it captures the flavor of the magic. So I have to wonder how far apart the magic systems are?

Eosin the Red




>
> From: John Machin <trithemius@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
> Date: 2002/09/05 Thu PM 03:52:57 EDT
> To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> Subject: Re: D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR? [2#913]
>
> Eosin the Red:
> > Wheel of Time RPG has many useful things for BIRTHRIGHT. The
> > world is based around low occurrence but high powered magic
> > much like BIRTHRIGHT. The classes, except for `wizard` do not
> > have a magical component to them. I think (I am biased) that
> > it would make a much better system than standard D&D, of
> > course you would have to add cleric and paladin in to the game.
>
> Wheel of Time? I`ll come out and say that I don`t much like the setting.
> Seven books was about three books to many in my opinion and I stopped
> reading them a long time ago so I suspect there are probably ten by now
> with a lot more coming.
>
> At first glance I don`t know if the magic system would suit and this
> might reduce its portablity. At second glance I`m not sure that it
> really has anything that can`t be gained by simply adapting some of the
> NPC Classes a bit to make them more playable, as some people around here
> (myself included) have suggested.
>
> I say (and if people didn`t see this one coming then I am a rogue four
> levels higher than them) that people who are seriously looking for a new
> system for BR and not just a-D20-by-any-other-name should take a very
> close look at Ars Magica. Do it for yourself, do it for me, do it in the
> vain hope that one day I`ll shut up about it ;)
>
> --
> John Machin
> (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
> -----------------------------------
> "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
> Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.
>
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[Sir Justine]

HA! Eosin, I love you!!! This is exactly the same thing I feel about the classes of D&D! Why the heck a hunter and woodsman like the ranger needs to use magic??? The role of the wilderness spellcaster is already with the druid!
Do you know my theory? It's that they are lazy when they make the classes, and instead of creating nice abilities for then they just make then cast spells...
Actually, I have made my house versions of some classes, and the ranger now has only mundane abilities, and while the paladin still has supernatural abilities (lay on hands, turn undead and smite evil) it doesn't cast spells anymore.

[Sir Justine]

Other thing I would like to say: At first I don't let players use material from other campaign settings (Kalamar, Ravenloft, Rokugan...). However, you can get good ideas from the basic book of other campaigns - while I don't like Forgotten much, I have to admit that the 3ed Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book is very well written. Rokugan is very good too, while I find this one to be difficult to adapt to Birthright.

[Ariadne]

I would only convert usefull thing from other campaigns to birthright (skills, feats, prestige classes etc.)

[Trithemius]

Eosin the Red:
> D&D vs WoT D20 - while they are the same game WoT has many
> flavors that are inherent to BR. You do not have to like the
> books to like the RPG.

I just don`t agree with that statement. I don`t see great similarities
at all. I personally think that people on-list have come up with better
variants of all of the `features` the WoT offers to BR.

> 3/4th of the PHB Classes have inherent magic to them - this
> is not for my style of play, it not only pulls me to WoT but
> is also what pulls me to BR. You can adapt some of the NPC
> classes - but that is aready done for you in WoT. The system
> makes small changes to assume a magic poor world, rather than
> the "No Detection Spells" type of world typified by D&D.

To my mind this just means that we should focus on the other 1/4th of
the classes. I imagine the vast majority of PCs in BR would be
multiclass Fighter/Aristocrat with about 1/3 Fighter levels and 2/3
Aristocrat levels.

I am afraid I must confess my ignorance of the significance of the "no
Detection Spells" remark. Please explain to me if you could (I am sure
I`ll kick myself when you do...)

> It is a strait d20 and that is its appeal (masses) - only the
> clothes have been changed similar to the treatment done to
> Star Wars. If you were looking for an entirly different game,
> Ars Magica might work - of course that is what most of the
> people suggest for Wheel of Time because it captures the
> flavor of the magic. So I have to wonder how far apart the
> magic systems are?

I don`t care much for mass appeal. I don`t think BR has ever had the
mass appeal of say, FR. I rather like it that way. It appeals to
particular types of people, I say cater to those people. Mass
compatibilty means sacrficing setting complexity and I love setting
complexity.

Regarding comparisons between magic in WoT:d20 and ArM4 - I don`t know.
I am thinking more of the flavour of the systems.

P.S. Hermedhie says `Hi`.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Sir Justine:
> HA! Eosin, I love you!!! This is exactly the same thing I
> feel about the classes of D&D! Why the heck a hunter and
> woodsman like the ranger needs to use magic??? The role of
> the wilderness spellcaster is already with the druid! Do you
> know my theory? It`s that they are lazy when they make the
> classes, and instead of creating nice abilities for then they
> just make then cast spells... Actually, I have made my house
> versions of some classes, and the ranger now has only mundane
> abilities, and while the paladin still has supernatural
> abilities (lay on hands, turn undead and smite evil) it
> doesn`t cast spells anymore.

I have three versions of Ranger in my non-BR campaigns: the arcane
ranger (who learns spells from other rangers); the divine ranger (who
gains spells from his divine patron); and the mundane ranger (who gets
extra feats instead of spells). I find that this allows for `Ultima`
style ranger-fraternities, rangers in the service of nature deities
(such as FR`s Melikkei), and regular hunters and woodsmen.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Sir justine:
> Other thing I would like to say: At first I don`t let
> players use material from other campaign settings (Kalamar,
> Ravenloft, Rokugan...). However, you can get good ideas from
> the basic book of other campaigns - while I don`t like
> Forgotten much, I have to admit that the 3ed Forgotten Realms
> Campaign Setting book is very well written.

I wonder if it that was because of Rich Baker`s influence?

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[geeman]

At 11:36 PM 9/6/2002 +1200, John Machin wrote:

>Eosin the Red:
> > D&D vs WoT D20 - while they are the same game WoT has many
> > flavors that are inherent to BR. You do not have to like the
> > books to like the RPG.
>
>I just don`t agree with that statement. I don`t see great similarities
>at all. I personally think that people on-list have come up with better
>variants of all of the `features` the WoT offers to BR.

There are some general things it has to offer BR. As for the general
flavor of the setting, WoT has many of the "Tolkien-like" features that BR
shares. WoT is a similarly low magic setting and its weave system of magic
is probably more appropriate to BR (IMO) than D&D/D20`s. Wilders and
Initiates have a much closer relationship than D&D`s wizards and sorcerers,
which could be used to reflect the differences between elven and human
magic in BR. The corrupting influence of saidin (the male aspect of the
magical forces in the WoT setting) could be used as a basis for the
corrupting influence of Azrai`s bloodline and the transformation of
awnsheghlien.

A few other things in the WoT supplement could be used for BR. It`s system
of reputation is better than anything in the BR materials. The WoT`s
Woodsman is also a good basis for changes to the ranger. There`s also a
noble PC class. Not having a noble PC class in BR is a glaring
omission. You`d probably want to tweak them, but several of the variants
I`ve suggested on birthright-l have been based on the WoT supplement.

Gary

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[Eosin the Red]

Jori says Hi back,

Some of the others summed up some of the things that appeal to me. So I will
leave that alone except to add one more comment. WoT has a human base race -
and differentiates them well. I do not feel that Dooms conversion shines in
this area. The regional (racial) feats and background skills work wonders
distinguishing different nationalities.

I lied - 2nd thing. The increase in skill points and broader skill base
(more skills based on race) also plays well in BR.

The `No Detection` comment - there is an illustration of a barkeep and a
sign behind him in the DMG (where it discusses the assumed level of magic)
that says "No detection Spells allowed." They also indicate that the common
man is familiar with mages, magic and has perhaps had a potion or two
(IIRC). That is not an element of fantasy I want in my game.

On WoT:d20 & Ars Magica - some people will never be satisfied with d20 (esp
WoT nazis) the game system that I hear suggested by them most frequently is
Ars Magica - because it "captures the feel of WoT magic."

I also think BR could do well in Hero System with some magic tweaking and a
little monkeying with the Blood Abilities.

The major problem as I see it is that without an "official" published rules
set, any adoption of any system is going to fragment an already small
community. Find two DMs and you will have two different opinions of the word
Dice - trying to get them to agree on a house rules adaptation is worse than
the politics of Anuire :)

Later,

Eosin the Red


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Machin" <trithemius@PARADISE.NET.NZ>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR? [2#913]


> Eosin the Red:
> > D&D vs WoT D20 - while they are the same game WoT has many
> > flavors that are inherent to BR. You do not have to like the
> > books to like the RPG.
>
> I just don`t agree with that statement. I don`t see great similarities
> at all. I personally think that people on-list have come up with better
> variants of all of the `features` the WoT offers to BR.
>
> > 3/4th of the PHB Classes have inherent magic to them - this
> > is not for my style of play, it not only pulls me to WoT but
> > is also what pulls me to BR. You can adapt some of the NPC
> > classes - but that is aready done for you in WoT. The system
> > makes small changes to assume a magic poor world, rather than
> > the "No Detection Spells" type of world typified by D&D.
>
> To my mind this just means that we should focus on the other 1/4th of
> the classes. I imagine the vast majority of PCs in BR would be
> multiclass Fighter/Aristocrat with about 1/3 Fighter levels and 2/3
> Aristocrat levels.
>
> I am afraid I must confess my ignorance of the significance of the "no
> Detection Spells" remark. Please explain to me if you could (I am sure
> I`ll kick myself when you do...)
>
> > It is a strait d20 and that is its appeal (masses) - only the
> > clothes have been changed similar to the treatment done to
> > Star Wars. If you were looking for an entirly different game,
> > Ars Magica might work - of course that is what most of the
> > people suggest for Wheel of Time because it captures the
> > flavor of the magic. So I have to wonder how far apart the
> > magic systems are?
>
> I don`t care much for mass appeal. I don`t think BR has ever had the
> mass appeal of say, FR. I rather like it that way. It appeals to
> particular types of people, I say cater to those people. Mass
> compatibilty means sacrficing setting complexity and I love setting
> complexity.
>
> Regarding comparisons between magic in WoT:d20 and ArM4 - I don`t know.
> I am thinking more of the flavour of the systems.
>
> P.S. Hermedhie says `Hi`.
>
> --
> John Machin
> (trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
> -----------------------------------
> "Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
> Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.
>
>
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[Trithemius]

Eosin:
> Some of the others summed up some of the things that appeal
> to me. So I will leave that alone except to add one more
> comment. WoT has a human base race - and differentiates them
> well. I do not feel that Dooms conversion shines in this
> area. The regional (racial) feats and background skills work
> wonders distinguishing different nationalities.
>
> I lied - 2nd thing. The increase in skill points and broader
> skill base (more skills based on race) also plays well in BR.

These are pretty good ideas. I personally agree with most of them
(although I am agonising over increasing the skill-points of everyone
since I see the alternative to this as multi-classing in some (tweaked)
NPC classes, which is something I encourage in my players.) It`s just
that I have never linked these to the WoT book in particular. I suppose
that good ideas are good ideas wherever they come from, I just didn`t
find a lot to offer me in the WoT book (which I took a long look at
because people had suggested them previously).

> The `No Detection` comment - there is an illustration of a
> barkeep and a sign behind him in the DMG (where it discusses
> the assumed level of magic) that says "No detection Spells
> allowed." They also indicate that the common man is familiar
> with mages, magic and has perhaps had a potion or two (IIRC).
> That is not an element of fantasy I want in my game.

Fair enough. I think its daft myself. Most people (NPCs) in my games
aren`t even necessarily literate!

> On WoT:d20 & Ars Magica - some people will never be satisfied
> with d20 (esp WoT nazis) the game system that I hear
> suggested by them most frequently is Ars Magica - because it
> "captures the feel of WoT magic."

Weird. That is not what I expected to hear. Perhaps it is just that
magic-system-nazis (like, er, me) enjoy Ars Magica a lot.

> I also think BR could do well in Hero System with some magic
> tweaking and a little monkeying with the Blood Abilities.

Hadn`t thought of that before although I have talked with a listmember
or two about using the Hero Wars / Hero Quest rules from Issaries.

> The major problem as I see it is that without an "official"
> published rules set, any adoption of any system is going to
> fragment an already small community. Find two DMs and you
> will have two different opinions of the word Dice - trying to
> get them to agree on a house rules adaptation is worse than
> the politics of Anuire :)

Ah yes. The eternal problem. If only you would all stop your squabbling
and swear fealty to me as Emperor - uh - I mean line-editor. ;)

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Trithemius]

Gary:
> There are some general things it has to offer BR. As for the
> general flavor of the setting, WoT has many of the
> "Tolkien-like" features that BR shares. WoT is a similarly
> low magic setting and its weave system of magic is probably
> more appropriate to BR (IMO) than D&D/D20`s. Wilders and
> Initiates have a much closer relationship than D&D`s wizards
> and sorcerers, which could be used to reflect the differences
> between elven and human magic in BR. The corrupting
> influence of saidin (the male aspect of the magical forces in
> the WoT setting) could be used as a basis for the corrupting
> influence of Azrai`s bloodline and the transformation of awnsheghlien.

I`m afraid that I can`t say I link WoT with Tolkien much. I can see
where some of the ideas are coming from but I see it as pretty damn far
from what I conceive of as `Tolkien-like`.

> A few other things in the WoT supplement could be used for
> BR. It`s system of reputation is better than anything in the
> BR materials. The WoT`s Woodsman is also a good basis for
> changes to the ranger. There`s also a noble PC class. Not
> having a noble PC class in BR is a glaring omission. You`d
> probably want to tweak them, but several of the variants I`ve
> suggested on birthright-l have been based on the WoT supplement.

I suppose that some people might like to `port some of the aspects
across. I personally am not keen to and would rather start from the
ground up. I suppose its down to sheer preference. I just don`t find
anything especially useful there myself, that`s all.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Birthright-L]

When it comes to roleplaying, living in Europe can sometimes be a real
headache. Most products need about one to two months to cross the Atlantic,
if they arrive at all. For example, I`m missing two recent issues of the
Dragon Magazine, and the Stronghold Builders Guidebook and the Epiclevels
Handbook arrived at my local game store two days ago.

In addition, the prices are considerably higher than in the US, at least
judging from the recommended prices given on the books. The FR campaign
setting went for about 55 dollars (recommended price $39.95). The epic level
handbook would go for 51 euros (that`s something inbetween 45-50$). As my
budget is a little tight at the moment, I have to decide carefully which
books to buy and which to leave on the shelf until I`m really earning what I
deserve ;)

As a result I would really appreciate if some of you guys would be willing
to evaluate new products in depth, with regard to their usefulness for BR.
If I remember correctly something like this has been discussed on the list
when Masters of the Wild came out.

For now I have three specific questions/comments.

1) I decided against buying the Stronghold builders guidebook, as I didn`t
find anything really useful and new that I couldn`t do myself. With regard
to building components I do have the 2e Castle guide. Does the stronghold
book improve considerably when compared to this older publication in your
opinion? Some of the traps might be useful, but Song and silence already
covers trap design. Any opinions?

2) I`m a little unsure whether to buy the epic levels book. Some of the
monsters look interesting (I always liked the demi-lich. The dragons look
interesting, too, though not really fitting within Cerilia). However, the
main function the book could fulfill was to supply some of Cerilia`s main
antagonists (the Gorgon, Rhuobhe, the Magician) with epic feats. As I just
browsed through the book for a few minutes in the store, I really don`t know
if this will be worth buying the book. Comments?

3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
the BR domain rules?

Christoph Tiemann

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[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

When it comes to roleplaying, living in Europe can sometimes be a real headache.
Oh yes, that's real true!!! (Especially, if you mean these prices)


Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

Does the stronghold book improve considerably when compared to this older publication in your opinion? Some of the traps might be useful, but Song and silence already covers trap design. Any opinions?
There are some new things in this book (especially the magical specials are good), but if you have the 2nd edition version, you can save your money... There are other books, if you only like to create traps.


Orginally posted by Birthright-L (Christoph Tiemann)

2) I’m a little unsure whether to buy the epic levels book.
As I just browsed through the book for a few minutes in the store, I really don`t know if this will be worth buying the book. Comments?
I have the epic level handbook and I find it useful (naturally only if you play or create epic characters and if you ignore it's price ;) ). The prestige class expansion is a good one, the feats of cause (if you forget the horrible requirements for some) and several epic prestige classes. It's a pity, that books such as "deities and demigods" are published without taking it into consideration. About some skills you can discuss, of cause... IMO some monsters are a little bit overpowered (even a god has problems with them). Last a great section is this about these epic magical items (such as a belt of giant strength +10)

3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve the BR domain rules?[/b][/quote]
Which dragon magazine do you mean?

[Birthright-L]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Christoph Tiemann wrote:
> 3)One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
> domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
> the BR domain rules?

No. I think the article you mean was one of the Dungeoncraft articles-
many of them are online at
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dragon/dungeoncraft)

Issue 293 contains a system for dividing up a realm into 10 mile by 10
mile squares, rating income, population, etc. I didn`t really like it.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Trithemius]

Daniel McSorley:
> Issue 293 contains a system for
> dividing up a realm into 10 mile by 10 mile squares, rating
> income, population, etc. I didn`t really like it.

If I was going to do something like this I`d probably use Kenneth`s
arable land system. I like hexes better than squares.

--
John Machin
(trithemius@paradise.net.nz)
-----------------------------------
"Nothing is more beautiful than to know the All."
Athanasius Kircher, Ars Magna Sciendi.

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[Birthright-L]

Ariadne wrote:
>>One of my missing issues of Dragon magazine contained some kind of
domain-like rules. Was there something in this article that could improve
the BR domain rules?[/quote]
> Which dragon magazine do you mean?<<
Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under the
link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dragon/dungeoncraft)
There seems to be a table missing, though.

Christoph Tiemann

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[Birthright-L]

<< Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under the
link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dragon/dungeoncraft)
There seems to be a table missing, though.
>>

If possible, could someone perhaps post the missing table from Dungeoncraft
in Dragon 293 here on list, please? It would be greatly appreciated.

- the Falcon

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[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Sir Justine

It`s that they are lazy when they make the classes, and instead of creating nice abilities for then they just make then cast spells...
May I say, that a 2nd edition ranger could cast spells too? (If he had enough levels)

[Eosin the Red]

What table is missing? I have the mag and am willing to type it up.



----- Original Message -----
From: "the Falcon" <M.M.Richert@ITS.TUDELFT.NL>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: D20 publishing craze... anything useful to BR? [2#913]


> << Issue 293. According to my local game store this issue never made it to
> Europe, though. However I was indeed able to download the article under
the
> link Daniel McSorley pointed out (Thanks to you!). Here it is again:
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=drago...on/dungeoncraft (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dragon/dungeoncraft)
> There seems to be a table missing, though.
> >>
>
> If possible, could someone perhaps post the missing table from
Dungeoncraft
> in Dragon 293 here on list, please? It would be greatly appreciated.
>
> - the Falcon
>
>
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> with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.
>

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[Birthright-L]

Eosin the Red wrote:
>> What table is missing? I have the mag and am willing to type it up.<<

Well, actually there may be several things missing. The article mentions a
"Realm Control Sheet" which is not provided. That is not a very important
omission since the contents can be deducted from the article.
The next thing missing is the "population multiple", which seems to be based
on terrain.
Last but not least, the "resource multiples" for different terrain types
were ommitted in the online version (plains generate one resource per square
and jungles two, according to the example provided)
I would be interested mostly in the resource modifiers, as I believe they
may be useful for BR, e.g. providing a hierarchy of terrain types according
to usefulness in terms of natural resources.

BTW, Eosin the Red, could you provide a link for the WoT RPG site you
mentioned in the 3ed conversion thread?! That would be highly appreciated as
well.

Christoph Tiemann

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[Eosin the Red]

> Well, actually there may be several things missing. The article mentions a
> "Realm Control Sheet" which is not provided. That is not a very important
> omission since the contents can be deducted from the article.
> The next thing missing is the "population multiple", which seems to be
based
> on terrain.
> Last but not least, the "resource multiples" for different terrain types
> were ommitted in the online version (plains generate one resource per
square
> and jungles two, according to the example provided)
> I would be interested mostly in the resource modifiers, as I believe they
> may be useful for BR, e.g. providing a hierarchy of terrain types
according
> to usefulness in terms of natural resources.

I will see if I can get this typed up tonight or tomorrow.


>
> BTW, Eosin the Red, could you provide a link for the WoT RPG site you
> mentioned in the 3ed conversion thread?! That would be highly appreciated
as
> well.

I accidentally took a stick of TNT and blew the snot out of the site about 5
days ago. It has an emergency band-aid on it now. Much of the content is on
the back pages and is black text on black background so if you find yourself
on some weird page with no writing select the table and you should at least
be able to see what is going on. Give me a week or two and check back for
easier navigation and reading.

www.mabinogin.com

Eosin the Red

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[N\'Klas Gronican]

This is Eosin but I changed e-mail address after I registed eons ago. Now I can't get into my original account.

All of the tables are on the realm control sheet - I aint a wiz at makin tables so this is simple.

TERRAIN______POP MX
Plains____________x12
Forest____________x7
Hill_______________x6
Mountain_________x3
Swamp___________x1
Jungle___________x3
Desert___________x1
Bases____________x4
Total____________

TERRAIN____RESOURCE MX
Plains____________x1
Forest____________x5
Hill_______________x3
Mountain_________x2
Swamp___________x0
Jungle___________x2
Desert___________x0
Bases____________N/A
Total____________



It is a pretty simple realm control sheet - but beyond my UBB skills.