Thuriene Donalls dilema

[kgauck]

Thuriene Donalls, Thane of Talinie is unmarried. Her heir is her cousin
once removed, Siobhie Riedhie. Why is she not married and produced an heir
of her own? She sits at the end of seven generations of direct decent.

To begin with she has two choices, a foriegn suitor, or a local scion. No
doubt the Archduke Aeric Boeruine has some son currently presenting suit.
That puts her in the awkward possition of either giving her realm (the lands
anyway) to the dynasty of Boeruine, or offending the Archduke by accepting
the suit of a rival. On the other hand she could marry a local noble. But
the number available at her blood strength might well be small indeed. An
alliance to Torele Anviras would certainly be favorable to the realm, but is
highly unlikely. Perhaps another two or three such figures (bloodlines
above 25, not immediatly related) exist, but they have be burdened with
their own flaws. One of them may have a known derivation of Azrai. Another
may be in the pocket of the guilds, or the Archduke. Or, they may represent
a dangerous politics, advocating a total break with Boeruine, for instance.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Lord Eldred]

You forget that she could also designate an heir that may be serving her as advisor or in some other capacity. Upon her death she could give him/her the bloodline and regency!

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lord Eldred" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 8:52 AM


> You forget that she could also designate an heir that may be
> serving her as advisor or in some other capacity. Upon her death
> she could give him/her the bloodline and regency!

Not at all. But consider that dynasticism is robust. One of the reasons
that Talinie was able to produce seven generations of direct heirs was that
the dynastic model produces a surplus of possible heirs, so that plenty of
spares exist. Siobhie Riedhie exists because someone earlier along had more
than one child.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[A_dark]

Hm, well, Boeruine has already Talinie as a vassal. I do not think he would like to absorb her. She is buffer against goblins and the only realm that has declared him the rightful heir. Also, if she is absorbed, Aeric loses one Duchy of the original 12 that would support him. Sure he grows stronger, but I believe he would appreciate the diplomatic benefit of having her separate more.

If I were in her shoes, and given the above assumption that I have, I would go for the local suitor. A guilder in all probability, or perhaps a high level priest in the NIT.

[kgauck]

Its not that Boeruine is looking for reasons to absorb
Talinie, but that puting a Boeruine decendent
(Thuriene`s offspring by a Boeruine) in power there
would be a step more seccure. Reading the Talinie PS,
apparently Talinie feels stuck with their relationship
with Boeruine, not happy junior partners. From
Boeruine`s perspective, that doesn`t make the best
ally.

As far as local suiters, guilders are right out. They
are foriegn exploiters of Talinie, giving them access to
the seat of power worsens that prospect. Besides the
local guilders have weak bloodlines. Myles has a BL
strength of 8. If we assume that each province has its
own earl we know our likely potential suitors. The
Talinie PS doesn`t list the provincal nobles, but
looking at other PS (like Stjordvik and Tournen) that
do, we can get a sense of their bloodlines. Typically,
these are substantially weaker bloodlines than the
ruler, or at least a thane of Thuriene`s bloodline.
That means only two or three candidates will exist at
most, and how many of them will have other factors to
exclude them?

We know that instead of marrying, Thuriene has named (or
plans to name) her first cousin once removed as her
heir. So something has prevented a suitable marriage at
least so far. Of course I can make up a potential mate,
but given the fact that there is a nice political dilema
already set forth, why make an effort to fix it? As I
build my Talinie nobles (currently under way at
http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/talinie.htm ) I
think its more interesting to exploit the published
dilema and explain it in greater detail.

Almost no spouses are mentioned in any PS, and most of
the time its hardly a problem to just invent some. King
Varri of Stjordvik could be married to almost anyone of
decent bloodline, and since his own is nothing
spectacular, that presents a pretty wide pool. He could
be married to a foriegn princess, the sister or daughter
of a political supporter in Stjordvik, or even that of a
rival (a failed attempt to bring a rival into Varri`s
camp). But in Talinie, we have a combination of
limiting factors (Boeruine, foreign guilders, weaker
nobiliy) combined with an expressly designated heir.
I`d rather build on what the PS presents as much as I
can, since I spend so much time embellishing and re-
working them as it already is.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Ariadne]

Hey, you men forgot something!
Maybe she doesn't want to give birth to a child (in the moment). It's very painfull and as a ruler of the land she may not want to be week for this time! (Eventually she may be attacked meanwhile and then she can't lead the army!)

So she must balance between the land and the land's future. I think that's why she has set her cousin as a heir. How to remove this? Don't know, may be some husband from elsewhere ans a time skip ;)

[Lee]

A convenient solution would be marriage to a scion from far away who
would pose no threat to the balance of power locally, who is unable to
inherit from wherver he comes from. Such a scion would, of course, have to
submit to the teachings of the NOT, and live in Talinie-- not exactly Paris.
If some guy could get over those hurdles, great!
A potential church ally could be the HBT in Dhoesone, already linked to
the NIT. Such a crusader-type knightly order might be recruiting members
from farther abroad to bolster its ranks-- maybe a suitable suitor could come
from that source? They would already be noble Haelynites.
As for lowering the bloodline, she could at least designate her own
child, preserving the line`s strength, per RAW.
As for the risks and pain inherent in childbirth, that might be a reason
to put off such activity, but I think a devoted cleric of Haelyn would suck
it up. (Sarcastic aside: The PS made me think often of Scottish
Presbyterians: as a caricature of duty above all, she may not want to get
married, as it could lead to enjoyment!)

Lee.

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Birthright-L]

<<A convenient solution would be marriage to a scion from far away who would
pose no threat to the balance of power locally, who is unable to inherit
from wherver he comes from. Such a scion would, of course, have to submit
to the teachings of the NIT, and live in Talinie-- not exactly Paris. If
some guy could get over those hurdles, great!>>

Hmm... I can think of a few of my old characters that would fit that bill...
Of course, around 80% of them being half-elves might cause a little
trouble... But since most of those would not mind the wilderness, and many
of my others are paladins... Well, I`m sure hardship is not a problem to
them...

<<As for the risks and pain inherent in childbirth, that might be a reason
to put off such activity, but I think a devoted cleric of Haelyn would suck
it up.>>

Quite true... Of course, she might also find someway around it...

Though I admit there is one other reason for a woman to fear childbirth in
this time period... Many women did not survive the birthing process...

<<(Sarcastic aside: The PS made me think often of Scottish Presbyterians: as
a caricature of duty above all, she may not want to get married, as it could
lead to enjoyment!)>>

Hmmm... Well, then she might not want to marry any of my PC`s... They tend
to want to make their wives have as much good feelings as possible...
Especially when it comes to things in the bedroom...

(I`m not kidding... My old PC`s have this bad habit of wanting to treat
their beloveds quite well... So well that they never have to worry about
that aspect ever again... Of course, Thuriene Donalls might not like being
waited on hand and foot by her husband...)

__________________________________________________ _______________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hanna" <LeeHa1854@AOL.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:49 PM


> (Sarcastic aside: The PS made me think often of Scottish
> Presbyterians: as a caricature of duty above all, she may not
> want to get married, as it could lead to enjoyment!)

That`s funny, because I have been convinced that Talinie is Scotland for a
whole other host of reasons. As one can tell from my own developement of
Talinie, I`m using a bunch of Scotish names.

http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/talinie.htm

Since I`ve never like the blazon of Talinie on the PS (nice for an emblem,
horrible blazon) I`m just using the cross of St Andrew.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Birthright-L

Though I admit there is one other reason for a woman to fear childbirth inthis time period... Many women did not survive the birthing process...
This is quite true... And if she dies in childbirth, there is still no true (trained) heir to rule Thalinie after her!


Originally posted by Birthright-L

Hmmm... Well, then she might not want to marry any of my PC`s... They tend to want to make their wives have as much good feelings as possible... Especially when it comes to things in the bedroom...
What kind of discussion is this? As a priestess of Haelyn she would not pick her husband out by such an advantage! By bloodline o.k., but not because of being good (or not so good) in bed.

If she where a priestess of Cuiraécen, she might taste her future husband first, before marrying him (especially in such things) ;) , but Haelyn is a little bit to "righteous" for this, I fear.

[Lord Grave]

>
> > You forget that she could also designate an heir that may
> be serving
> > her as advisor or in some other capacity. Upon her death she could
> > give him/her the bloodline and regency!
>
> Not at all. But consider that dynasticism is robust. One of
> the reasons that Talinie was able to produce seven
> generations of direct heirs was that the dynastic model
> produces a surplus of possible heirs, so that plenty of
> spares exist. Siobhie Riedhie exists because someone earlier
> along had more than one child.
>

TSR did a very bad job in describing families of the regents. I guess
that it is up to player to develop the family for his character. For
example, I played Aeric Boeruine once and had him marry a sister of
Kathrine Gauren. In ItSoD, however, he had twin sons and there was no
mention of his wife.

************************************************** **************************
The Birthright Homepage: http://www.birthright.net
Birthright-l Archives: http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB BIRTHRIGHT-L in the body of the message.