Magical Item Creation and RP

[Magian]

Anyone think of using RP to help create magical items? Perhaps in place of the XP for 3E or some such thing? I think it cost XP to make magical items in 3E correct?

[Ariadne]

Yes, it cost's XP, if you create a magic item in 3rd edition (and you must have the right feat as well). Even gods can't create magic items without spending XP (but they have enough of these)!

No, I havn't thought of RPs for item creation until yet. A not too bad idea! In 2nd Edition a priest must spend RPs, if he creates a relic (see "book of priestcraft" ), but otherwhise I don't know of this. How many RPs you want to spend for a magic item in 3rd edition (it costs you min. 500 XP to create a better item, but a normal regent can't spend 500 RP, never even 50!) Further in the realm it would not be well seen, if the regent spends attention (RPs) to something for himself instead of the realm (creating a road f.e.). Only if the creator is a wizard without a realm (but with sources), he can do with his RPs, what he want's!

[Lord Grave]

>
> Magian wrote:
> Anyone think of using RP to help create magical items?
> Perhaps in place of the XP for 3E or some such thing? I
> think it cost XP to make magical items in 3E correct?
>

I think a lot of people though of that, and we use that option in
ItSoD2.

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[Magian]

What that's it? You just going to show off and say yeah I use, many people use it? Come on man what is the system you are using! How does the RP stand in for the XP? Leave us haning like that, GEEZ what is the world coming to!

[Lord Eldred]

I would support adding the spending of R.P.s to create items. This would limit the creation of items to those that are blooded and thus limit the amount of said items in the world. Remember, I believe magic items should be rare.

The way I suggest is to make the R.P. cost 1/10 of the experience cost. This would make it truly rare. A cleric would hardly ever spend R.P. in this way unless it was for the benefit of others and thus it would limit it to the low number of blooded wizards in the world.

[A_dark]

I think the Consecrate relic gives enough guidelines regarding how the mage can create magical items. However, if you say that you need to spend RP to make magical items, you are forbidding the non holding owners from being able to create magical items and that is not fair to them. So, it is a good idea, but not very well thought of... at least not yet :)

[geeman]

At 04:01 PM 8/1/2002 +0200, A_dark wrote:

>However, if you say that you need to spend RP to make magical items, you
>are forbidding the non holding owners from being able to create magical
>items and that is not fair to them.

I think the idea is that a character could use RP instead of XP to create
magic items, not that only RP could be used.

Gary

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[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by A_dark

I think the Consecrate relic gives enough guidelines regarding how the mage can create magical items. However, if you say that you need to spend RP to make magical items, you are forbidding the non holding owners from being able to create magical items and that is not fair to them. So, it is a good idea, but not very well thought of... at least not yet :)

I don't have a problem with eliminating non-holding wizards from being able to create magic items. It would reduce the over all number made to help keep such items rare.



"I think the idea is that a character could use RP instead of XP to create
magic items, not that only RP could be used. "

Gary



No Gary, I would require RP in addition to XP. To further make it more difficult to create magic items. I don't feel the restrictions from Travis Doom go far enough in creating the magic item rare world that was intended for Birthright and helps make Birthright what it is!

[kgauck]

On Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:58 PM, Lord Eldred wrote:

> I don`t have a problem with eliminating non-holding wizards from
> being able to create magic items. It would reduce the over all number
> made to help keep such items rare.

Actually it would push many of them into the priestly creation camp. This
might effect some of the caster levels or precise powers of the item.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Lord Eldred]

I believe I covered this argument by indicating that Priests wouldn't be creating a lot of these magic items. Only a few that would benefit a great amount of People. Priests would not be in the business of creating a great number of holy artifacts. Especially if it cost them R.P. and X.P.!!!

[Ariadne]

I try to create magical items (but I'm a 2nd edition character of a level to do it).

A 3rd edition character should only spend RP, if he cant spend XP (because he don't want to loose a level f.e.). Something like an alternative to XP. To must spend RP would limitate magical items not only to blooded characters, but also to regents (and not every scion IS a regent actually)! Magical items should be somehow restricted, but not so hard! You must see, a wizard/ priest must spend a feat first to create one. In a campaign not very much characters want to spend it. This restricts magical items already.

[Magian]

IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don't really like the energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.

I am not sure, but I don't think a person can loose a level from using XP according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don't like how the costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a game that proposes another idea?

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magian" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:44 PM

IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the cost
to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring career
10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
thoughts.

And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
magic item factories.

I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.

Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss of
xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
characters.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Peter Lubke]

On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 08:44, Magian wrote:

This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=840

Magian wrote:
IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don`t really like the
energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.

I agree. But you have to use a life force system to do so. See the
thread on vitality/wound points. In such a case the energy drain attacks
the wound point maximum itself. An example: If a character has a maximum
wound points of 10 - an energy drain from a vampire would reduce that
maximum to 8. There`s no actual wound and the "loss" can`t be healed,
the character is now permanently left with a maximum of 8 wound points.
Additionally, the character fights (until he has rested properly) as if
he has been (how do I put this? ) - "energy-drained" - as if he had been
wounded for 2 points. (All attacks etc at -2 to effectiveness/chance of
success).


I am not sure, but I don`t think a person can loose a level from using XP
according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a
bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than
a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don`t like how the
costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a
game that proposes another idea?

I allow magic-users to create a wand (earlier than usual). The wand
however "uses" a spell slot - similar to the helm of teleportation using
a spell slot. The wand acts as a focus for that spell slot allowing the
caster to cast it multiple times.
I can see that you could "bind" the energy/magic of a source or temple
to power a magic item in a similar way. But such would tie-up some of
the generated DP/RP of the holding.

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[Magian]

>From: Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM>
>
>IMO the xp cost of magic items is so low that its hardly an issue. Plus in
>terms of return on investment its a great return. Take the Medallion of
>Thoughts, an hand item in BR to be sure. The minimum caster level for this
>item is 5th level, and the cost in xp is 480. That`s around 10% of the
>cost
>to go from 5th to 6th. It may also make the rest of your adventuring
>career
>10% easier. Presumably someone would spend 12,000 gp on the open market to
>buy this thing. That`s nearly the sum total of wealth of a 6th level
>character. I`d say that spending 6000 gp and 480 xp, and the 12 says
>involved were well worth it, if you were inclined to want to read people`s
>thoughts.
>

I make no claim that I know the 3E rules very well as I have only skimmed
over the books therefore I had no idea the cost of XP was this little.
Makes me think twice about reading it over again to make a better judgement.
However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
wizard`s trade/class ability. From what you say though it does provide for
a workable system but there is just that little hump I cannot seem to get
myself over to fully accept it.

>And yet, the xp cost does prevent characters from using their realms as
>magic item factories.
>

Yeah that is a downfall of the RP usage. IMO while playing however RP is
the most valuable resource and any spenditure of it is costly. I guess I am
a RP conservative though. Therefore as a DM anyone doing this to the point
of unbalancing the game you could bring in a new scion to oppose the overly
spendy regents who has little to defend his domain. Of course a multitude
of ideas could arise to counter this kind of "abuse" (is that a good word?)
of the system. I guess that is why I would like to know if any other system
is used in other games. John Machin did present me with some stuff from Ars
Magica that work well on another subject so I am interested in exploring
other ideas from elswhere (thinking outside the box?).

>I`d further say that a priest who tithes 10% of his experience in the form
>of magic items is in particular favor in the temple.
>

That is a good idea actually.

>Finally, the ability to substitute RP allows characters to avoid the loss
>of
>xp, while still allowing magic item creation for non-blooded, or non-ruler
>characters.

Yes, if memory serves me right I didn`t mean to come across as if I was
proposing to eliminate the XP and replace it with RP for magical items
rather use it as another option or even for certain item requisites.

When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl and
I would like some sort of point system for creating items also but daily
regenerating mana points are of little consequece to a spell caster. But
maybe using something like a critical mana cost (similar to critical hit
rules from combat and tactics) needing more time to regenerate. Giving us
the effect that Merlin spoke about in the movie Excalibur after he conjured
the dragon`s breath. OK so I babble a lot.


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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 11:04 PM


> When it comes to magic I prefer a mana system for casting spells so that
> wizards are more like sorcerers and they are in tune with the mebhaighl

How does the mana system work? I use a channeling system myself, rather
than the old memorize and forget system. I could go either way with
wizards, but clerics need to channel, IMO.

The mechanic I use can be found on this write-up of Haelyn`s priesthood.
Its in the spells section right after armor and weapons in the class
features.
http://home.mchsi.com/~kgauck/taelshore/Haelyn.htm

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[geeman]

At 09:28 PM 8/12/2002 +0200, Vicente wrote:

>now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
>posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
>normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").

Essentially. The character creating the magic item still needs to be able
to cast the spell upon which the magic item is based, so a wizard can`t
create wands of healing, for example.

Gary

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[Birthright-L]

Hello,

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Magian" <birthrightpbem@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Magical Item Creation and RP [10#840]

> However the idea of XP being used in magical item creation is completely
> opposed to my ideas of gaining XP from making them as they are part of a
> wizard`s trade/class ability.

now in 3e, if I haven´t understood badly, crafting magic items is as
posible for a wizard or a sorcerer as for a cleric or a druid (requisite
normally is "spellcaster level", not "arcane spellcaster level").

Vicente

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[Birthright-L]

The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free, so
they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
spellcaster can learn how to do this.

Actually, due to the limited sor/wiz spell lits, there are many items (like
magic armor and rings of protection) that these classes cannot make at all.

/Carl

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:17 PM


> The thing is, wizards receive item creation (or metamgic) feats for free,
so
> they are more likely to have the skill to create magic items. But any
> spellcaster can learn how to do this.

In my experience, divine spellcasters need to pick a kind of item creation
feat to focus on. Wizards, because of the free IC/MM feats can make more
kinds of items. Clerics are common scroll scribers, sometime potion makers,
and high level priests can make other kinds of items. Priests of Cuiraecen
probabaly like to make those weapons that shock. I imagine that Ruornil`s
clerics (and druids) make quarterstaffs with silver caps that are weapons of
disruption. Linking certain priesthoods with certain favorite weapons (a
combination of the diety`s favored weapon and favored spell elements) adds a
nifty flavor.

Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
cleaving
Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Birthright-L]

Defenders of the Faith even has a special spell called Weapon of the Diety,
that imbues the favored weapon of your diety with the appropriate magic. So
Elhonna`s (these are the Greyhawk gods) can create frost longswords, while
Grumsh of the orcs creates returning shortspears.

This spell works well in most campaigns, including Birthright.

There is no mention of using Weapon of the Diety as a replacement for the
normal prerequisites of creating magic weapons, but that is how I would play
it.

/Carl
Kenneth Gauck <kgauck@MCHSI.COM> wrote at 02-08-13 03.17:

> Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
> Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
> Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
> cleaving
> Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
> Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
> Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
> Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
> Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
> Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
> Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men
>

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[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Cramér" <carl.cramer@HOME.SE>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 1:45 AM

> There is no mention of using Weapon of the Diety as a replacement for the
> normal prerequisites of creating magic weapons, but that is how I would
play
> it.

You mean as the activator of the special power, in place of whatever is
listed in the DMG? A very interesting idea. It certainly guarantees that
the spell required is available. I`ll almost certainly allow it, too. It
is 4th level, and many of the spells identified are 3rd level.

It does kind of create one favorite kind of weapon, wheras the BR pantheon
is pretty expansive in its powers. Should Avani`s weapon be lawful?
flaming? blinding? spell storing? bane against madness? I kind of like
the idea that it could be different things for different clerics, and that
different temples would favor certain kinds of weapons. "Hmm, a priest in
yellow robes with golden embroidery wielding a spear that burst into flames
when it struck the enemy? Sounds like a priest of the Fiery Dawn."

The trick is, if Avani`s own weapon is a spear of blinding, would players
feel obligated to go with a spear of blinding, rather than, say a lawful
spear? I guess the way around that problem is to put plenty of NPC`s out
there with a variety of alternatives.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by kgauck

Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
cleaving
Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men
You forgot Eloéle: I would say, she has a dagger of venom with ghost touch and chaotic qualities.

Should Belinik not better have an unholy, battleaxe of wounding and sharpness (o.k. and may be of speed)?

[Birthright-L]

If we are talking Weapon of the Diety, all these weapons have only +1
qualities.

Suggestions:

Avani:
Belnik:

Ariadne <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG> wrote at 02-08-13 14.05:

> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=840
>
> Ariadne wrote:
>
Orginally posted by kgauck
>
> Avani`s spears of blinding, of distance, of spell storing
> Haelyn`s swords of focus (acts as a focus for spells), of law, holy
> Erik`s axes of returning (often used in pairs), of distance, of mighty
> cleaving
> Cuiraecen`s shock swords, keen, and thundering
> Nesirie`s tridents of healing, defending, of returning
> Ruornil`s quarterstaves of disruption, ghost touch, spell storing
> Sera`s chaotic rapiers, of wounding, bonding (can`t be disarmed)
> Laerme`s flaming shortbows, of speed, of distance
> Kriesha`s maces of icy burst, unholy, dancing
> Belinik`s vorpal battleaxes, of speed, bane of men
> You forgot Eloéle: I would say, she has a dagger of venom with gost touch and
> chaotic qualities.
>
> Should Belinik not better have an unholy, battleaxe of wounding and sharpness
> (o.k. and may be of speed)?
>
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[Ariadne]

O.k:, then let's have only a dagger of venom +1 then for Eloéle's priests...

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Peter Lubke

On Mon, 2002-08-12 at 08:44, Magian wrote:

This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=840

Magian wrote:
IMO spending XP for anything is a really bad idea. I don`t really like the
energy drain of undead as it should attack life force not XP.

I agree. But you have to use a life force system to do so. See the
thread on vitality/wound points. In such a case the energy drain attacks
the wound point maximum itself. An example: If a character has a maximum
wound points of 10 - an energy drain from a vampire would reduce that
maximum to 8. There`s no actual wound and the "loss" can`t be healed,
the character is now permanently left with a maximum of 8 wound points.
Additionally, the character fights (until he has rested properly) as if
he has been (how do I put this? ) - "energy-drained" - as if he had been
wounded for 2 points. (All attacks etc at -2 to effectiveness/chance of
success).


I am not sure, but I don`t think a person can loose a level from using XP
according to 3E, if they can this just adds to my sentiment of it being a
bad idea. RP is a much better commodity for this anyway, even better than
a consitution point. I know magic is costly I just don`t like how the
costs are used in game terms. Anyone know of another system used in a
game that proposes another idea?

I allow magic-users to create a wand (earlier than usual). The wand
however "uses" a spell slot - similar to the helm of teleportation using
a spell slot. The wand acts as a focus for that spell slot allowing the
caster to cast it multiple times.
I can see that you could "bind" the energy/magic of a source or temple
to power a magic item in a similar way. But such would tie-up some of
the generated DP/RP of the holding.

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OK so if you replace XP with RP do you advocate limiting magic item creation to blooded characters?

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

OK so if you replace XP with RP do you advocate limiting magic item creation to blooded characters?
I would say no! Unblooded characters (if they are clerics) should create magical items too. Spending RP should only be an alternative to XP....

[Lord Eldred]

Why are you limiting it to clerics?

[usermaatre]

I wouldn't change the magic item creation rules at all. The 3e rules are fine just as they are.

XP is a great limit on magic item creation. And yes, you cannot spend so many XP that you would lose a level, which prevents the maker from becoming a factory or falling too far behind the rest of the party.

I assume this thread is concentrating on permanent magic items, not scrolls, potions or other one-use items.

I think it is possible to spend RP in place of XP, but not in addition to.

However, since RP are used for domain actions, then if they are to be a requirement of magic items, then those magic items should be domain-affecting.

Such items would not have to be epic artifacts.

For example, you could have a wondrous item called The Bounty of the Earth Mother. (There does not,however, appear to be an earth goddess in the Cerilian pantheon).

This magic item would prevent a Famine Random Event from occuring within the given domain.

To make it would require that the spellcaster have the Craft Domain Wondrous Item (Wondrous Items are what the 2e DMG called Miscellaneous Magic.)

The caster should probably be 3rd level+. This is the caster requirement to acquire the 3e Craft Wondrous Item feat.

The caster would have to know the Priest Realm Spell "Bless Land" (Rulebook, p 86).

It costs 1 GB to cast that spell.

Setting the XP cost of the magic item is tricky. The XP cost of making a magic item in 3e is 1/25 of the making price, which is usually half the market price of the magic item.

Now 1/25 of 20000 gp (1 GB) is 800. A 3rd level priest could spend 800 XP on creating a magic item. A 3e 3rd level priest has to have a minimum of 3000 XP. To cast this spell the priest would have to have 3800 XP. (A 3rd level priest does not become 4th level until reaching 6000 XP.)

I personally cannot see such a domain-affecting item being very portable. I would want it to be large and probably immovable (at least by non-magical means). So there would probably be additional manufacturing costs, (Is it a monolith or a shrine or something?) which would increase the XP cost too.



Usermaatre "Powerful is the Truth of Ra"

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Why are you limiting it to clerics?
Because I though of "real" (true) wizards, not magicians, but you are right, the should also create magical items, if they can...

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Ariadne


Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Why are you limiting it to clerics?
Because I though of "real" (true) wizards, not magicians, but you are right, the should also create magical items, if they can...


Which brings up the question, can they?

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Which brings up the question, can they?
I think so. Naturally only divination and illusion things...

[A_dark]

They should not be able to create items. They had no access to either enchant item nor permanency in 2nd ed. I don't think they should be allowed to have access to item creation feats in 2nd ed. Moreover, magicians are relatively common and that means, that crystall balls would become relativel common as well, should they be allowed to create magical items. (I stress the word relatively)

[Lord Eldred]

It seems that every low level magic user has a crystal ball or some hokey magic item such as that...

However, I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to create magic items. I am also of the position that non-blooded clerics can not create said items either.

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

It seems that every low level magic user has a crystal ball or some hokey magic item such as that...

However, I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to create magic items. I am also of the position that non-blooded clerics can not create said items either.
Non-blooeded wizards don't create magical items? O.K. agreed. But why non-blooded clerics should not? It's the power of the gods, they execute...

[Lord Eldred]

Orginally posted by Ariadne


Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

It seems that every low level magic user has a crystal ball or some hokey magic item such as that...

However, I agree that they shouldn't be allowed to create magic items. I am also of the position that non-blooded clerics can not create said items either.
Non-blooeded wizards don't create magical items? O.K. agreed. But why non-blooded clerics should not? It's the power of the gods, they execute...


My argument would be that only the blooded are blessed with enough power from the gods to create such items.

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

My argument would be that only the blooded are blessed with enough power from the gods to create such items.
Why should unblooded clerics not create magical items! You mean, they aren't bleesed as much as blooded by the gods? Hey, this would mean something like 2nd class clerics!

[Birthright-L]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Ariadne wrote:

> >
Orginally posted by Lord Eldred
> >
> > My argument would be that only the blooded are blessed with enough
> > power from the gods to create such items.
>
> Why should unblooded clerics not create magical items! You mean, they
> aren`t bleesed as much as blooded by the gods? Hey, this would mean
> something like 2nd class clerics!

Precisely. Not having bloodlines, they manifestly aren`t as much blessed
by the gods. IMC, I split priests into two groups based on presence or
absence of bloodline, just as arcane casters are split into blooded
wizards and nonblooded (and therefore less powerful and less flexible)
magicians. Just as with wizards vs. magicians, IMC priests without
bloodlines are more restricted in spell and feat selection, and even
spells they are allowed to cast are less effective than when used by
blooded priests. I think they definitely ought to be "second-class"
clerics. It just makes much more sense to me to do it this way.


Ryan Caveney

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[geeman]

At 11:17 AM 8/29/2002 -0400, Ariadne wrote:

>Just as with wizards vs. magicians, IMC priests without bloodlines are
>more restricted in spell and feat selection, and even spells they are
>allowed to cast are less effective than when used by blooded priests.

What kinds of spell and feat restrictions do you give clerics?

Gary

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