preist's of Azrai?

[marcum uth mather]

were do the powers of a preist of Azrai come from? Is it a combined element of the Vos Gods, or does it come from somewere else. the whole reasone i ask is i dont know how the "hand of Azrai" gets its spells.

[soudhadies]

Orginally posted by marcum uth mather

were do the powers of a preist of Azrai come from? Is it a combined element of the Vos Gods, or does it come from somewere else. the whole reasone i ask is i dont know how the "hand of Azrai" gets its spells.

Quite possibly one of Azrai's descendents is granting the power for some purpose (maybe just the thrill of be called Azrai).

Another possible explanation is that the Gorgon, like the Serpant, has the power to grant spellsto his followers.

[Lord Grave]

>
> marcum uth mather wrote:
> were do the powers of a preist of Azrai come from? Is it a
> combined element of the Vos Gods, or does it come from
> somewere else. the whole reasone i ask is i dont know how the
> "hand of Azrai" gets its spells.
>

I think the Gorgon is demi-god and grants spells to his priests.

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[geeman]

At 05:15 AM 7/22/2002 +0200, Bearcat wrote:

>Another possible explanation is that the Gorgon, like the Serpant, has the
>power to grant spellsto his followers.

I don`t think an actual god is really required to grant 1st through 3rd
(maybe 4th) level spells, since 4th, 5th 6th, and 7th level and above
spells were "granted" by demigods, lesser, intermediate (if one had that
category IYC) and greater gods, respectively. In 3e divine spells are 1st
through 9th level, so one could up the number of spells that priests can
learn without a specific deity to grant them from 1st through 5th or, as is
suggested by the 3e Deities and Demigods and several 2e sources, a specific
god need not necessarily be worshipped at all in order for a priest to get
spells. BR has "specialty priests" that worship particular gods and get
special abilities, but the priests of the Serpent, the Hand of Azrai or
whatever could be generic "clerics" gaining their spellcasting powers and
choosing their domains based on a generalized concept.

Gary

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[Ariadne]

In my opinion the clerics of the "hand of Azrai" get their spells from Belinik, not from the Gorgon.

[Lord Eldred]

I would have to agree with Ariadne, there is no reason to make an Awnsheg have the ability to grant spells when there are two gods descending from Azrai. Either Kriesha or Belinik. I have read some other theories that Azrai didn't completely die. Either way they could get spells. Even if they believed they were worshiping Azrai, Kriesha or Belinik may answer the call.

[A_dark]

Actually, the Gorgon is specifically not a god. It says so in his description. He would have become one if he did not covet the Iron Throne so much. This desrire keeps him in the realm of mortals and prevents him from becoming a god.

I would give them spells from both Belinik and Kriesha.

[marcum uth mather]

i agree the gorgon is not a demi-god( he is already powerfull anyway without that tacked on;) But if the vos gods are taking credit for AZRAI spells, then wouldn't they be higher in the pantheon? the entier southern contenent was under Azrai's sway. having the backing of all thoes worsipers would catapult them to greater status.

[Lord Eldred]

Or does that lend credence to the argument that Azrai was not totally destroyed?

[marcum uth mather]

If Azrai is still somehow around wouldn,t he be more noticebale. he wasen't known for being subserviant. he wanted power. the southern empiers in Adura all worshiped him. so he still has the fuel for godhood. Plus i dont like the fact that all the old gods died and still didn' kill him

[Lord Eldred]

They did enough to weaken him so that he couldn't be in the forefront but still has power mainly through his new sub gods. He is slowly gathering strength to mount a come back. Or so legend goes.

By the way who said you had to like it?

[blitzmacher]

He is slowly gathering strength to mount a come back.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats the way I like to see it, Azrai sitting back in his own mordor waiting for the right time to make a come back.
In fact, I have been thinking of an adventure for when the PC's in my group have become strong enough, and have exhausted the 20 some adventures I already have set up for them. The first part would be a search to find a tome, made just after deismaar by an unkown wizard, which contains the secrets on ridding the world of the evil Azrai bloodline. The tome itself lies in Thaele, garded by an ancient dragon. The tome also requires two other items to be able to work, an orb, and a sceptor. The orb lies in the tarvan waste, and the sceptor lies in the battle-fens, they are both garded by their own ancient dragon. To be able to perform the ceremony the would have to conduct a bloodtheft from an unwilling opponant while holding the sceptor, and an ally holding the orb within 10' of the sceptor. It can also be done on a willing person as an investure ceremony, which would rid the person of their whole bloodline. In either case the sceptor transfers the bloodline into the orb. The orb grows from clear, its current state, to a light shade of gray, and gets darker with each transfer. Once the orb is completely black, meaning all, or most of the major awnshegh have been destroyed, the tome calls for a ceremony. This ceremony opens a portal to the SW in which the cold rider can come through. If the cold rider gets possession of the orb....

[Lord Eldred]

Failure or doing the wrong thing would awaken Azrai and return him to rule?

[Ariadne]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred

Failure or doing the wrong thing would awaken Azrai and return him to rule?
In my oppinion this might be. Naturally he wouldn't be a greater god at first, but beware...

[Azrai]

In my opinion the "Hands" receive their spells from Belinik and Kriesha. In my campaign, Azrai has still some hidden, mysterious power, which slumbers in the land.

Considering the Demi-God problem, note that there are priests from the Serpent around. it is nowhere detailed mentioned where the power comes from, but there are hints that the Serpent is a Demi-God and grants spells to the followers. However, I think the Gorgon is not a God at all.

[Kappenkriaucheran]

IMC Azrai and the Cold Rider are one and the same. Azrai´s priests are found mainly in Aduria and the Shadow World (Halfling Domain Lords from Blood Spawn), but a few of his faithful form the Hand/Fingers of Azrai in Cerilia. They all gain their spells and powers from Azrai (I have created his priesthood for my AD&D2 campaign).
The Serpent has become a demigod after having oppressed the Masetians (the Serpent was a Masetian once) for more than 1000 years.
The Gorgon is on his way to godhood, however he will have to mirror the Serpents´ achievement. Quite a difficult task :) .

[Azrai]

I don't hink Azrai and the Cold Rider are the same. As I have shown previously I also don' think there should be "official" Azrai priests around. this give's away some of the mysterious aspects in the cerilia.

[blitzmacher]

The tome, orb, and sceptor were actually made by Azrai so that if he was destroyed he would have a way back. In my head I have the cold rider as the essence of Azrai, or the actual hand of azrai, powerful enough to be a demi-god, and grants spells to the hand of azrai priests. When enough of Azrai's essence is gathered into the orb, means that if it is combined with the cold rider, who Knows how to do this since he is Azrai in a way, will cause the reformation of Azrai in full. He won't be as powerful as before because some of his essence has been lost, or not recovered, but he would be more the Haelyns equal. The adventure should work for both good or evil characters, evil wanting to bring back Azrai, and good thinking that they are ridding the world of evil. I think I would have it starting as a to real and recurring dream which won't let the PC's rest until they do something about it.

[Kappenkriaucheran]

Orginally posted by Azrai

I don't hink Azrai and the Cold Rider are the same. As I have shown previously I also don' think there should be "official" Azrai priests around. this give's away some of the mysterious aspects in the cerilia.
Have you read Blood Spawn? There is one sentence which reveals exactly that, somewhere in the adventure with the Seelie and their queen, saying:
She has also heard the that the Cold Rider has enlisted the aid of his old servants, the Lost.
Quite revealing given the fact that three of the Lost have already returned to Cerilia (el-Sheighül, the Magian, and the Raven).
As for the "official" Azrai priests, they´re mentioned but not described in Havens of the Great Bay and Blood Enemies. Maybe they worship Azrai through Belinik and Kriesha.
IMO it actually heightens the mystery. Wasn´t Azrai supposed to be dead, replaced by Belinik and Kriesha? Where did those priests come from, as there are no other temples dedicated to Azrai in Cerilia? Do they really get their power from Azrai, or are they imposters?

[Azrai]

There was a source book about the COld Rider under construction, but I think it was canceld due to the TSR breakdown. Of course one could argue, that the COld Rider is some essence of Azrai, but I don't think so. seems more, that the designer planned to make some kind of shadow world awnseghlien, this I conclude from several product previews.

[zukie]

The Cold Rider in the Shadow World is beleived to be Azari, or at least his soul, but again no one knows for sure

[marcum uth mather]

but even if it is his shadow , or esence, or whatever, would, it be much more powerfull? with all his worshipers on the adura contenent, he would have a Huge powerbase.

[Lord Eldred]

If the Cold Rider is Azrai we may all be doomed!

[Perhelion]

Why would the Cold Rider have to be all of Azrai?
In my view he is only an aspect of Azrai, that retreated to and is trapped in the Shadoworld after Deismar.
Worshippers from Aduria would have no effect, as they worship the ancient aspect of Azrai, God of Emperors and Emperor of Gods, not some wasted Shadow in a parallel realm...
I'm not even sure if the Cold Rider IMC should think that he was Azrai himself but rather his heir... Perhaps Azrai can be reformed (as is bound to happen at some point IMC) but only after many rituals and the reunion (and probably sacrifice) of many recipients of his bloodline (I'm sure most Awnshegh wouldn't submit willingly...).

[marcum uth mather]

I dont see why the gorgon would allow a force in his domain that would promote the resurection of a dead god that would have power over him. The cold rider is a good idea for a benefactor for Azrai's preists, but as a main power in the shadow world wouldn't he be more powerful? does anyone know his avatar statas

[Birthright-L]

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, marcum uth mather wrote:
> I dont see why the gorgon would allow a force in his domain that
> would promote the resurection of a dead god that would have power over
> him. The cold rider is a good idea for a benefactor for Azrai`s
> preists, but as a main power in the shadow world wouldn`t he be more
> powerful? does anyone know his avatar statas

No, the Cold Rider was never statted in any book I know of. I don`t think
he has an avatar, though. He`s either a powerful awnshegh (doubtful), or
it was strongly hinted that he is a remnant of Azrai. I`d say he`s about
demigod status, physically in the shadow world, like Iuz in Greyhawk. No
avatar.
--
Communication is possible only between equals.
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[Birthright-L]

IMC, the "Hand of Azrai" temple in the Gorgon`s Crown is not referring
to worshiping Azrai, but instead worshiping the Gorgon as "the hand of
Azrai". I understand that in the books the "Hand of Azrai" is the
unblooded female priestess that runs the temple, but I changed that :)
IMC, the Gorgon does not want Azrai to come back, he wants to replace
him and Belenik/Kriesha. He is in fact going to be helping my
soon-to-be-epic elevl PC`s defeat the Cold Rider from taking over the
world (the PC`s have been played for almost 15 game years now, and I`m
going to end it with a epic-level "save the world" campaign).

marcum uth mather wrote:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=810
>
> marcum uth mather wrote:
> I dont see why the gorgon would allow a force in his domain that would promote the resurection of a dead god that would have power over him. The cold rider is a good idea for a benefactor for Azrai`s preists, but as a main power in the shadow world wouldn`t he be more powerful? does anyone know his avatar statas
>
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[marcum uth mather]

So does any one have any good states in mind for the cold rider? how about spheres and wepons allowed for his priests

[Starfox]

marcum uth mather <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG> wrote at 02-09-10 02.11:

> marcum uth mather wrote:
> So does any one have any good states in mind for the cold rider? how about
> spheres and wepons allowed for his priests
>

I use Darkness, Evil, Travel, Trickery for spheres. Weapons have no
restrictions, but neither is the War domain available, so few will use other
than basic weapons.

My Darkness domain can be found at :
http://my.homeip.net/abbe/DnD/magic/domain...s/darkness.html (http://my.homeip.net/abbe/DnD/magic/domains/darkness.html)

As to his actual goodhood, I think he is the ghost of a god, and lika most
ghosts he is not really sentient, just single-mindedly persistant in doing
what he does. If this really qualifies him as a god is doubtful, but he has
access to the POWERS of a god, anyway.

/Carl

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[Ariadne]

Azrai and the Cold Rider aren't the same!!!

In our campaign The Cold Rider was based on the Greyhawk demipower Vecna.



Orginally posted by Birthright-L

He is in fact going to be helping my soon-to-be-epic elevl PC`s defeat the Cold Rider from taking over the world (the PC`s have been played for almost 15 game years now, and I`m going to end it with a epic-level "save the world" campaign).
That's funny. In one of our last campaigns we defeated the cold rider already in a epic-level adventure (a pity, that those who survived stopped adventuring after that)...

[marcum uth mather]

my group is m5-7th level and are being sent by a church to spy on this "upstart of Azrai" ....there doomed:p

[imperialtemple]

In the old 2E Paladin's Handbook, the idea of worshipping "philosophies" was introduced -- as an alternative to paladins worshipping any specific god.

The "Hand of Azrai" could be a cult which worships Azrai's ancient doctrine. I get the impression that Belenik and Kriesha never really absorbed all of Azrai's portfolio -- just certain aspects of it which matched each champion's personality . . . . The most cunning aspects of his godhood (lies, tyranny, intrigue, deception, black magic, undeath) really didn't fall to anyone.

Well, there are still people who would subscribe to aspects of that "portfolio". So, what happens when a "portfolio" has worshippers, but no god?

. . . . It could be that the "portfolio" becomes a philosophy. And, that opens up some interesting roleplaying possibilities -- as far as other gods manuevering to gain control over that portfolio and other powers (fiends, powerful awsheghlien, etc.) attempting to exploit that to ascend to godhood or block others who wish to do so.

There are many awsheghlien who would probably like to claim that portfolio. However, most (including the Serpent) do not have enough of "divine essence" to ascend.

(The Serpent, in particular, seems to want to become a god. However, he's still relatively weak in terms of bloodline strength, I believe.)

The Gorgon, who is perhaps the only awsheghlien "qualified" to take on that role, refuses to accept it. He's driven by an obsession to conquer Anuire and to undo his brothers' works . . . . However, that doesn't mean that he won't "reserve" the portfolio for later, capitalize on the extra political power a small cult worshipping a favorable philosophy might provide, or block others from taking over that portfolio.

[Raesene Andu]

I'm working on the chapter on gods for the upcoming 3rd Edition Campaign Setting at the moment. It will feature information on the Cold Rider, Azrai (the ancient aspect still worshipped by some today), and the non-human gods.

So as you can imagine, this discussion is quite interesting.

Azrai is dead, he was destroyed at the battle of Mount Deismaar, but the question does remain, where did all his power go? He was the greatest of the ancient gods, and all that remains behind are few (admitedly quite powerful) awnsheghlien and two weak gods. I am working on an interesting solution to this, one that will provide plenty of adventure for high level PCs. (Some people posting here have already come up with something similar I see).

As for the cold rider... well you will just have to wait and see. All I can say is this. He isn't Azrai, but he may be responsible for the rebirth of that dark power.

The 3E campaign setting will also feature some info on the various dark temples and order dedicated to Azrai, the serpent and the non-human gods.

[Birthright-L]

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Raesene Andu wrote:
> Raesene Andu wrote:
> I`m working on the chapter on gods for the upcoming 3rd Edition
> Campaign Setting at the moment. It will feature information on the
> Cold Rider, Azrai (the ancient aspect still worshipped by some today),
> and the non-human gods.
>
> So as you can imagine, this discussion is quite interesting.
>
> Azrai is dead, he was destroyed at the battle of Mount Deismaar, but
> the question does remain, where did all his power go? He was the
> greatest of the ancient gods, and all that remains behind are few
> (admitedly quite powerful) awnsheghlien and two weak gods. I am
> working on an interesting solution to this, one that will provide
> plenty of adventure for high level PCs. (Some people posting here have
> already come up with something similar I see).
>
> As for the cold rider... well you will just have to wait and see. All
> I can say is this. He isn`t Azrai, but he may be responsible for the
> rebirth of that dark power.

That`s a terrible idea. Instead of publishing your conversion material
early and often, when it would have been useful to DMs trying to run BR 3e
campaigns, you`re still holding out for a single monolithic release. That
alone is enough to make your `official` 3e conversion pretty much
obsolete, since those of us that still want to run BR in 3e have had the
best part of 2 years to make our own conversions. A single big release is
too little, too late.

And now you say the `conversion` will include set-in-stone definitions of
material that was intentionally left open for DMs to decide? Foul.

When I first heard there was a conversion being worked on, I thought it
sounded interesting, but now I`m thinking, why bother?
--
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Daniel McSorley- mcsorley@cis.ohio-state.edu

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[KnightEagle]

Hi, I don't have my books with me right now so I can't be certain but wasn't there some mention in the Book on Awnshegh of a being that was thought to be the soul of Azrai which drifted around looking for his body. The Awnshegh was like some sort of cloud that I was think was called the Apocolypse or something like that. Like I said, I don't have my stuff with me right now so I can't verify it but I think I remember reading something like that. If this being is still around and the rumors are true then it might be argued that a portion of Azrai still exists and the priests might recieve their spells from this.
Likewise, in third edition there are some cases where people receive spells from deities that are no longer in existence. For example, in the Ravenloft setting there is a god called "The Lawgiver" who seems to have died but the priests still recieve spells. Then again, that may just be Ravenloft.

James

[Birthright-L]

This has inspired me to post all of my thoughts for my upcoming
epic-level campaign. This campaign features two characters who have
become high level through 15+ game years of play, but adds two other
characters for players who have not previously been in this campaign.
These thoughts are just those that I`ce decided to use for this
campaign. I have alternatives that I might use for future campaigns in
alternate BR worlds.

Azrai is dead. He was more powerful than 6 other gods combined, so had
alot of "godstuff" that has to be accounted for. It is possible to bring
back Azrai, though, since alot of people still worship him (or at least
acknowledge him). To bring him back will take a large concentration of
Azrai`s blood, plus a ritual and maybe a couple of other things such as
a new host "body".

The Cold Rider is not Azrai. He was a demon champion of Azrai during the
battle that was used to fight the forces of good sent into the Shadow
World to try and weaken Azrai`s powerbase there (a force mostly lead by
followers of Vorynn). When Azrai died, this demon became a demi-god of
death and decay. He seeks to become stronger, but cannot since the
environment of the Shadow World constantly shifts. To become a greater
god, he must find a way to stabilize or control the world around him. He
is very powerful, and no match for even 25th-30th level characters. But
since he still is part demon, he has the demon weakness of being
controllable by someone who knows his True Name.

The Cold Rider has decided the way to control the Shadow World is to
merge it with the Mortal World. Break the barrier that seperates the
two. Over the past few years he has had agents working to sunder that
barrier in places, and other times it has happened by accident, much to
his delight.

There are three factions that are about to bring on the "end of the
world as we know it", each working independantly and unaware of each other:

* The Lost Triumverate: IMC, The "Triumverate of Evil" doesn`t include
the Gorgon, but instead consists of the Raven, the Magian, and the Ghul
(el-sheghul from Khinasi). They are trying to gather enough of Azrai`s
blood in one place, with a ritual and a new host "body", in order to
bring the dead god back. If they do, then Azrai will return as a
demi-god, and the PC`s will have a short time to stop him from ascending
to full power. Hopefully the PC`s can stop the Lost Triumverate from
doing this in the first place. They are already half way there by
gathering minor awnshegh and blood stones, but are growing impatient.
They realize that if they could get the bloodline of the Gorgon as well
as the biggest of Azrai`s blood stones (some artifact I`ll come up
with), they might just have enough...

* The Dark Elves: IMC, the realm of Tuar Annwn is ruled by a triad of
evil elven sorcerers. They are members of the group that originally
brought that realm into the Shadow World, but they have become corrupted
by greed and power. They have become masters of controlling demons from
the Shadow World, and enslave many already. Their next move is to expand
into the Ice March of Vosgaard to capture a new army of demons and
powerful beings to use on their next raget. They know that the Cold
Rider used to be a demon, and they believe he can still be controlled if
they discover his True Name.

* Servants of Death: consists of a female lich necromancer cleric of the
Cold Rider (called the Lady of the Heart) that was res`ed by him to
defeat the Gorgon (long story) and begin breaking the barrier between
the worlds. She now worships the Cold Rider, and is his servant. She
will soon be aided by another powerful dark cleric (an Adurian cleric of
Azrai and necromancer) who is currently an NPC with the party, but will
betray them to see his secret dream of unleashing Azrai`s full power
upon the world realized. I want to introduce another powerful character
to make 3 (3 groups of 3), but can`t think of anything. Since these two
are powerful necromancer clerics, what would make a good match?

The epic level campaign will be all about stopping these 3 groups from
attaining their 3 seperate goals. I`m interested to see what happens.
Here are possible "sub adventures" for the party:
* Stop the Dark Elve`s demonic army from conquering the Ice March. Fight
lots of demons and other nasties.
* Find the blood stone of Azrai before the Lost do.
* Get the Gorgon`s bloodline from the Lady of the Heart (long story,
another post) and keep it from the Lost.
* travel to Neserie`s sactuary in the Shadow World to have a minor
artifact wielded by one of the PC`s blessed even further and turned into
an Epic Level artifact.
* travel to Rournil`s, Erik`s, and Haelyn`s sanctuaries to enhance other
minor artifacts in more powerful versions.
* prevent the Lady of the Heart from expanding the Shadow World from its
current spot in Rhoubhe (long story why Rhoubhe no longer rules it,
another post) into Boeruine, Tournen, or Avanil. Not sure how to allow
the PC`s to do this without fighting the Lady of the Heart herself.
* if the PC`s fail to stop the Lost from gathering those two things,
then they must stop the demi-god Azrai in his new form before he
accomplishes some task to regain his old power.

I`m trying to think of more, feel free to suggest ideas, thanks.

Raesene Andu wrote:
> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.
> You can view the entire thread at: http://www.birthright.net/read.php?TID=810
>
> Raesene Andu wrote:
> I`m working on the chapter on gods for the upcoming 3rd Edition Campaign Setting at the moment. It will feature information on the Cold Rider, Azrai (the ancient aspect still worshipped by some today), and the non-human gods.
>
> So as you can imagine, this discussion is quite interesting.
>
> Azrai is dead, he was destroyed at the battle of Mount Deismaar, but the question does remain, where did all his power go? He was the greatest of the ancient gods, and all that remains behind are few (admitedly quite powerful) awnsheghlien and two weak gods. I am working on an interesting solution to this, one that will provide plenty of adventure for high level PCs. (Some people posting here have already come up with something similar I see).
>
> As for the cold rider... well you will just have to wait and see. All I can say is this. He isn`t Azrai, but he may be responsible for the rebirth of that dark power.
>
> The 3E campaign setting will also feature some info on the various dark temples and order dedicated to Azrai, the serpent and the non-human gods.
>
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[Birthright-L]

daniel mcsorley writes:

> When I first heard there was a conversion being worked on, I thought it
> sounded interesting, but now I`m thinking, why bother?

And you wonder why they don`t keep us better informed..?

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[Raesene Andu]

Orginally posted by Birthright-L
> When I first heard there was a conversion being worked on, I thought it
> sounded interesting, but now I`m thinking, why bother?

And you wonder why they don`t keep us better informed..?


The only thing I'll say here is that the project we are working on (and there is only 5 of us, so forgive us if it is taking some time to get everything right) is not a conversion, but rather a completely new edition of the Birthright setting, in much the same way as the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting is not just a conversion.

Our aim is not just to provide rules that any Birthright fan can use, but to entice newcomers into the Birthright world. If you are just looking for a conversion, then I would suggest downloading Travis Doom's quite good conversion and use that, as a lot of people have already done.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by Birthright-L (Adam Theo)

The Cold Rider is not Azrai. He was a demon champion of Azrai during the battle
This sounds reasonable...


Originally posted by Birthright-L (Adam Theo)

Hopefully the PC`s can stop the Lost Triumverate
Very funny, and how they want to stop the Raven, the Magian AND el-Shegül??

[marcum uth mather]

how is the conversion comming?

[Raesene Andu]

As it stands about a third of the chapters have been completed and just need some minor editing and formatting, a quarter has yet to be started and the rest is either in draft form or semi-complete. I couldn't give you a due date for the campaign setting at this stage as it is taking some time to complete and we are trying to get it right rather than release something that is only half-complete. This finished product is likely to be 200+ pages, perhaps even more.

[marcum uth mather]

well Im glad your still working on it . were it is true there has been lots of time to have DMs make there own ideas for 3rd ed, this sounds like it will have a wealth of knowledg in it for those interested. So for the BR d20 team thanks and have a ([_]

[Davidious]

but I believe there does not need to be an actual deity granting spells to a divine caster.

[kgauck]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Davidious" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:20 PM

> but I believe there does not need to be an actual deity granting
> spells to a divine caster.

Even Dieties and Demigods allows for forces and philosophies granting spells
(p. 9). So its not impossible for someone to use that to explain Azrai or
the Serpent`s spellcasting.

Kenneth Gauck
kgauck@mchsi.com

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[Birthright-L]

I personally think the Serpent is a demigod, capable of granting some
minor spell levels to worshipers. He attained demigodhood by first doing
some great thing before/during Deismaar, and then actually attained
demigodhood by destroying/enslaving the last of the Masetians. That last
task allowed him to transcend as demigod of serpents or something
similar. This follows the "rules" I just posted about ascending. Note
that IMC the Gorgon has not transcended, since his task has proven to be
much more difficult than the Serpent`s (his is to rule the Anuirean
Empire that his brothers created as Emperor, and sit on the Iron
Throne). The Gorgon has come close many times, but something always
manages to thwart him, much to his displeasure.

Kenneth Gauck wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Davidious" <brnetboard@TUARHIEVEL.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:20 PM
>
>
>> but I believe there does not need to be an actual deity granting
>>spells to a divine caster.
>
>
> Even Dieties and Demigods allows for forces and philosophies granting spells
> (p. 9). So its not impossible for someone to use that to explain Azrai or
> the Serpent`s spellcasting.


--
/ Adam Theo, Age 23, Tallahassee FL USA
// Email & Jabber: theo@theoretic.com
// Pager: (850) 709 7738
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[astrobeast]

I am playing in a campaign that is using WWI timeline but in Cerilia.

The Gorgon is missing, my character is personally trying to bring the God Azari back from the Astral plane. Like in the 2nd Edition Planescape Module, "Dead Gods" where you have to try and stop the preist from bringing back Orcus.

The only thing is, does anyone have any stats of Azari? My character is trying to unite the Preist of Kreisha and Belinek to the Church of Azari. Got any ideas? My DM I think really loves my creative ideas.

[Nicholas Harrison]

I think the role of the Hand of Azrai largely depends upon how the DM intends upon using the Gorgon.

Personally, I've always envisioned the Gorgon as THE archnemesis of the Birthright campaign setting. So, I've never really had a problem conferring "demigod" status on him.

I've always thought of the Serpent as being pretty weak by comparison. And, I've even thought Belenik and Kriesha were weak by comparison.

The entire concept of the wronged bastard who, by virtue of his sheer talent and ability, should have been an Emperor, but who was never accepted by anyone (Anuireans or Azrai) and carved out his own realm is a really poignant indictment of the feudal system.

This one figure stood against the entire Anuirean Empire at its height, systematically harvested entire bloodlines for centuries, and utterly destroyed and subjugated neighbors on all sides. He commanded the powers of both, the ultimate fighter and an impressive wizard, under the dual-class rules of second edition (i.e. which means he was really kick-ass, like 36th level). And, he maintains a massive horde of evil humanoids and has an extensive spy network. Over the course of what (fifteen centuries?), he was THE villain who attracted every paladin, good wizard, zealous priest, and egoticical adventuring party. And, he ruthlessly slew them all, turned back every attacking and invading army, and routinely raided and pillaged those adjoining him.

Honestly, I've always thought the only way to possibly explain him was not that he failed. If you've ever played in a game where the Gorgon unleashes his full attack while the players squabble amongst themselves (with none of the Main Contenders wanting to weaken their standing by throwing their might against him), you'll understand that he could have probably conquered Anuire.

So, I've always approached it from an immortal mindset -- kinda like how Acerak the Archlich is described in Return to the Tomb of Horrors (one of the first modules which really delves into how a superpowerful archnemesis thinks).

The Gorgon has certainly reaped enough divine power from all of the bloodlines he's extinguished over the centuries to attain demigodhood. He's certainly achieved enough to "earn" godhood if that was his true desire. But, he's not interested in that for some reason.

So, I've always envisioned the Gorgon as this super-powerful figure who has almost been transformed into a statue by Azrai's blood (something akin to what you see in the Anne Rice books). Like an archlich, he really isn't interested in affairs on this plane. He is looking for ultimate power somewhere else. But, he has the ability to mutli-task and be in many places at once -- so to speak. And, the Hand of Azrai is kinda like this cult with a demon priestess of some sort (succubus or enriyne) who acts as his "voice" to the quivering massses who are his subjects.

He can be stirred for his stupor if there are major events -- like an invasion of his lands or blooded scions setting foot in his domain. And, he periodically returns his attention to Cerelia (roughly every 20 years). But, most day-to-day events are fairly insignificant to him.

[astrobeast]

Anyone know of any stats for his pre-destruction?

[zarkin31411]

The answer to this question is quite simple. The Cold Rider could be the source of any cleric of azrai's powers. He is a demigod, and it is heavily implied that he may be what remained of azrai after his defeat.

[Birthright-L]

Azrai`s stats don`t appear in any of the published materials, and I
don`t recall anyone ever coming up with their own. As zarkin31411
notes, the Cold Rider is a candidate for the remainder of his
power/portfolio. However, if that character is the remnant of Azrai
then he is the version that survived the BoD, and we can imagine that
he is sorely diminished, so we have to imagine the pre-Deismaar god
as quite a bit more powerful. He`d also probably be more powerful
than any of the current gods, as he fought them all at that battle
and appeared to be winning.

Gary