feleck
07-11-2002, 07:35 PM
Wow, I just learned of this game system, and it seems impressive. I have to find a copy of it. Apparently it was released after I stopped gaming regularly, so I never heard of it. :-)
However, untill I do, I want to through out some thoughts on taxation in an RPG
Most Strategy games I know have a simplified taxation structure. The person collecting the taxes states a percentage he will collect, the lower the percentage the happier the people. Some games don't let you refine it as small, they will set it to a word, like minimal, moderate, or excessive - which amount to fixed percentages. Some use dice to determine income, some flat rates. But what it all comes down to is viewing taxation from a modern day income/sales tax percentage.
Since most fantasy games are based on medieval settings, this idea just doesn't work for me. In a medieval setting, taxes should be less 'fair' and more 'generic'. So, instead of percentages, you would have:
Head tax - a tax on every citizen living in the country. In a male centric society, you will have greater fees for men, lesser for women, and even less for children.
Land tax - every holding is required to pay for the amount of land it claims
Vassalage tax - your vassals are required to submit a fixed fee to you, where they get the money is their problem
Faith tax - adherents to a faith taxed once a year, based roughly on their income
Special Taxes - periodic levies on certain goods for special projects. For example, there might be a special war tax levied on every man of servicable age.
Usage fees - running a shop, setting up a stall in the market, using the port, using patrolled roads, toll bridges, gate taxes, etc
Guild fees - belonging to a guild
Temple fees - fees for sacrifice, fees to have prayers made,
Fees and Taxes are both income for rules, but fees are a residual income while taxes are a periodic income. Fees therefore should be set to verbage things(moderate, mild, excessive, etc). Those levels than give the player collecting the fees a chance of income each month(in truth, even in months when 'nothing' is earned, money is coming in, its just too little to qualify). An example, using some sort of number you assign a level of 'wealth' to a town. Let's it level 4. Now, a ruler is collecting usage fees on shops, ports, etc. He states that he will collect them moderately. For each level of wealth, roll a d6. If you roll a 5 or better, he gets a gold bar this month. So you roll 4d6 and he can get from 0 to 4 gold bars.
Now, there are a number of things which will effect the collection. They can either affect the number that you need to roll, or the number of dice. Going further with the example, 4 is the ideal collection time for fees, and will occur in summer when trade is most vigourous. In autum, you roll only 3 dice. In winter, 1 die. And in spring 2 dice(spring allowing mobility, but most peoples wealth is tied up in planting and such).
In addition to the above, WHO is doing the collecting is important as well. In theory, the province ruler is the one to set the fees and do the collecting. But the only people he has who can collect are the army, and they often embezzile some of the money collecting. Also, unless there are actually armed forces in the region, their numbers aren't sufficient to enforce collection. So, if the army is doing it subtract 1 from each dice roll due to funds going missing, and subtract 1 die from the total if there are no army units present in the province.
Alternatively, the province ruler can turn over the collection of fees to someone else. Or setup an organization to collect these fees. In other words, establish a law holding. A law holding of 0 is sufficient to collect fees. Law holdings don't suffer the one less die since they have the bureacracy to track everyone, but they do suffer from size(-1 Law 0, Law 1-3 0, Law 4+ +1).
If someone else is doing the collection, than the province ruler has to come to an agreement with the tax collector(a set feee, one person paying the other for the right to collect taxes, a percentage, or whatnot). In addition, the person who collects the taxes can collect at a different rate than agreed upon, for example Prince John declares moderate usage fees, but the Sherrif collect oppressive fees and blames the Prince(with a chance of the Prince detecting the deception).
These fees could be affected by roleplaying. For example,a ruler trying to expand the value of his province by attracting tradesmen might grant an amnesty of all usage fees for weavers, woodworkers, and other craftsmen. The GM would determine how many dice he will not get to roll for income.
Taxes would be a bit different, taxes are collected annually(in general) right after harvest. In this case, the province ruler would specify an amount in gold bars to be levied on different groups(a head tax of 5GB on the people, a merchant tax of 2GB on the guilds, a temple tax of 3GB on the temples, etc). Someone(law holding? prominient guild representative?) Than the person collecting determines how much to collect(the most prominent guild member might decide to pay 1GB of the 2GB tax himself in order to promote guild membership - ie pick up extra Regency Points). Than there would be some sort of 'collect taxes' action which would result in GB's being gathered. Failure would indicate bandits or poor picking, resulting in anywhere from half to no taxes collecting. Success would result in the taxes collected. And phenomenal success could be an extra d4 GB picked up from hoarders/smugglers. Of course, what the collector passes on to the crown may be less than was collected, and if he collects too little, the crown may still insisit on full payment.
Of course, all this makes things much more complicated. But then, taxation always has been a complicated issue.
Hopefully I'll soon get a copy of the basic rules to see how such ideas would work into actual game mechanics, so far I'm just going off temrinology in the Book of Regency which I downloaded from wizards.
Any thoughts?
However, untill I do, I want to through out some thoughts on taxation in an RPG
Most Strategy games I know have a simplified taxation structure. The person collecting the taxes states a percentage he will collect, the lower the percentage the happier the people. Some games don't let you refine it as small, they will set it to a word, like minimal, moderate, or excessive - which amount to fixed percentages. Some use dice to determine income, some flat rates. But what it all comes down to is viewing taxation from a modern day income/sales tax percentage.
Since most fantasy games are based on medieval settings, this idea just doesn't work for me. In a medieval setting, taxes should be less 'fair' and more 'generic'. So, instead of percentages, you would have:
Head tax - a tax on every citizen living in the country. In a male centric society, you will have greater fees for men, lesser for women, and even less for children.
Land tax - every holding is required to pay for the amount of land it claims
Vassalage tax - your vassals are required to submit a fixed fee to you, where they get the money is their problem
Faith tax - adherents to a faith taxed once a year, based roughly on their income
Special Taxes - periodic levies on certain goods for special projects. For example, there might be a special war tax levied on every man of servicable age.
Usage fees - running a shop, setting up a stall in the market, using the port, using patrolled roads, toll bridges, gate taxes, etc
Guild fees - belonging to a guild
Temple fees - fees for sacrifice, fees to have prayers made,
Fees and Taxes are both income for rules, but fees are a residual income while taxes are a periodic income. Fees therefore should be set to verbage things(moderate, mild, excessive, etc). Those levels than give the player collecting the fees a chance of income each month(in truth, even in months when 'nothing' is earned, money is coming in, its just too little to qualify). An example, using some sort of number you assign a level of 'wealth' to a town. Let's it level 4. Now, a ruler is collecting usage fees on shops, ports, etc. He states that he will collect them moderately. For each level of wealth, roll a d6. If you roll a 5 or better, he gets a gold bar this month. So you roll 4d6 and he can get from 0 to 4 gold bars.
Now, there are a number of things which will effect the collection. They can either affect the number that you need to roll, or the number of dice. Going further with the example, 4 is the ideal collection time for fees, and will occur in summer when trade is most vigourous. In autum, you roll only 3 dice. In winter, 1 die. And in spring 2 dice(spring allowing mobility, but most peoples wealth is tied up in planting and such).
In addition to the above, WHO is doing the collecting is important as well. In theory, the province ruler is the one to set the fees and do the collecting. But the only people he has who can collect are the army, and they often embezzile some of the money collecting. Also, unless there are actually armed forces in the region, their numbers aren't sufficient to enforce collection. So, if the army is doing it subtract 1 from each dice roll due to funds going missing, and subtract 1 die from the total if there are no army units present in the province.
Alternatively, the province ruler can turn over the collection of fees to someone else. Or setup an organization to collect these fees. In other words, establish a law holding. A law holding of 0 is sufficient to collect fees. Law holdings don't suffer the one less die since they have the bureacracy to track everyone, but they do suffer from size(-1 Law 0, Law 1-3 0, Law 4+ +1).
If someone else is doing the collection, than the province ruler has to come to an agreement with the tax collector(a set feee, one person paying the other for the right to collect taxes, a percentage, or whatnot). In addition, the person who collects the taxes can collect at a different rate than agreed upon, for example Prince John declares moderate usage fees, but the Sherrif collect oppressive fees and blames the Prince(with a chance of the Prince detecting the deception).
These fees could be affected by roleplaying. For example,a ruler trying to expand the value of his province by attracting tradesmen might grant an amnesty of all usage fees for weavers, woodworkers, and other craftsmen. The GM would determine how many dice he will not get to roll for income.
Taxes would be a bit different, taxes are collected annually(in general) right after harvest. In this case, the province ruler would specify an amount in gold bars to be levied on different groups(a head tax of 5GB on the people, a merchant tax of 2GB on the guilds, a temple tax of 3GB on the temples, etc). Someone(law holding? prominient guild representative?) Than the person collecting determines how much to collect(the most prominent guild member might decide to pay 1GB of the 2GB tax himself in order to promote guild membership - ie pick up extra Regency Points). Than there would be some sort of 'collect taxes' action which would result in GB's being gathered. Failure would indicate bandits or poor picking, resulting in anywhere from half to no taxes collecting. Success would result in the taxes collected. And phenomenal success could be an extra d4 GB picked up from hoarders/smugglers. Of course, what the collector passes on to the crown may be less than was collected, and if he collects too little, the crown may still insisit on full payment.
Of course, all this makes things much more complicated. But then, taxation always has been a complicated issue.
Hopefully I'll soon get a copy of the basic rules to see how such ideas would work into actual game mechanics, so far I'm just going off temrinology in the Book of Regency which I downloaded from wizards.
Any thoughts?