Starting Domain

[LucaCherstich]

I've always been intrigued by Birthright but at the times, in the 1990s, I had no access to a copy here in my town, and my english was very, very bad then (I'm Italian).

Now I'm intrigued by playing Birthright 3.5....but I have just a question. Possibly it's a very stupid question for all of you Birthright experts, but I need some help.

Maybe I'm just a dumb, or it is the barrier language, but even if I've read and understood how regency work, I really do not understand how you can chooose a domain at the start.

Can anybody explain me how starting PCs choose domains in simple words?

[Jaleela]

Hi Luca,

It may depend on your game-master (story teller). They may want to play an Anuire focused campaign. Players would choose domains from Anuire.

Usually players picks a kingdom that has not been taken by another player.

Some players want to be rulers of trade brotherhoods (guilds). Others want to play wizard regents or priestly regents.

So usually when someone picks a domain, it's a matter of personal choice.

Does that answer your question?

J

[LucaCherstich]

I'm planning to be the game master, but I've still to properly grasp all of the setting.

Regarding sources:
So, is it necessary for me to have, at least, all of the original Birthright AD&D2 core rules?
Or maybe is it enough to have the booklet "Ruins of Empire" to choose available domains?
Or does that book describe just Anuire?
What about Voosgard, Khinasi, Brecht and Rjurik?

Regarding choosing domains:
So, as far as I see, doman choosing is all almost arbitrary, it's all about Master/Players decision to see which domain can or cannot be chosen.
So, does it mean we can give a very big domain even to somebody with a very low Bloodline score?
If I well understood, it will only mean that he'll get less regency points than the land could give.
Am I wrong?

[Jaleela]

I'm planning to be the game master, but I've still to properly grasp all of the setting.

Regarding sources:
So, is it necessary for me to have, at least, all of the original Birthright AD&D2 core rules?
Or maybe is it enough to have the booklet "Ruins of Empire" to choose available domains?
Or does that book describe just Anuire?
What about Voosgard, Khinasi, Brecht and Rjurik?



I use 2E Original Core rules and have no real experience with 3.x. If you are using 3.0/3.5 AD&D then I suggest using the download of the 3.0 rule book.

The original boxed set TSR 3100 should contain everything to get started. You can usually find the boxed set on EBay. It has: Rule book, Ruins of Empire, Atlas of Cerilia, a monster cards, war cards, battle map, etc...

Ruins of Empire is Anuire. (Part of the Core rules)

Separate Boxed sets and accessories:

Cities of the Sun is Khinasi.

Havens of the Great Bay is Brecht.

Rjurik Highlands is Rjurik.

Tribes of the Heartless Wastes deals with Vosguard.

King of the Giant Downs covers the domain north of the Empire.

There are some domain specific accessories: Ariya, Tuarhievel, Binsada, Khourane, Baruk-Azik, Medore, Talinie, Roesone, Ilien, Endier, and Tournen.

Some people have written others for Diemed and Ghoere and I think there are some downloads from wizards of the coast.

You can use the Birthright wiki to fill in some of the blanks, but this source is not complete; I prefer to have the original core rules and the supplemental material.



Regarding choosing domains:
So, as far as I see, doman choosing is all almost arbitrary, it's all about Master/Players decision to see which domain can or cannot be chosen.
So, does it mean we can give a very big domain even to somebody with a very low Bloodline score?
If I well understood, it will only mean that he'll get less regency points than the land could give.
Am I wrong?



Yes, it is purely arbitrary unless you want to assign domains. We have a lot of regents, but some people play lieutenants of regents if they don't want to run a country or holding.

I think that's the goal of the game is to build up a domain and watch it develop over game time.

I think that if a PC takes over a domain, say Diemed, then they should do so as the current regent or an heir. Their base bloodline, at least in 2E AD&D would have them assume the regent's bloodline strength.

You can start with a lower bloodline score and use Regency and other means to grow it over time.

The amount of regency is dependent on your holdings and bloodline. You collect the lesser of the two. For example, if your holdings generate a total of 24 RP, and your bloodline is 54, you collect 24.

[AndrewTall]

I'm planning to be the game master, but I've still to properly grasp all of the setting.

Regarding sources:
So, is it necessary for me to have, at least, all of the original Birthright AD&D2 core rules?
Or maybe is it enough to have the booklet "Ruins of Empire" to choose available domains?
Or does that book describe just Anuire?
What about Voosgard, Khinasi, Brecht and Rjurik?

You need a map, and to know who you want to the domains to be - depending on how much work you want to do you could simply lift everything from one of the nation books, or write a brief 'players secrets' book for every domain available for play - whatever suits you.

I'd restrict play to one of the major nations at least at the outset, Anuire can easily encompass 30-40 players which is probably unmanageable for 1 DM to handle on their own. You could even start with just the south coast, or just the heartlands/east - starting small and building up is probably the best way to go.


Regarding choosing domains: So, as far as I see, doman choosing is all almost arbitrary, it's all about Master/Players decision to see which domain can or cannot be chosen.

Kind-of correct. Most DM will have an idea of how big they want their game to be, and will aim for realms chosen based around a specified geographical area to keep the players close together so that they interact and so that the number of NPC's is manageable. They may also want to restrict mages, as mage domains tend to be very hard to play given lack of income and a 'no PC-mage' rule allows them to restrict magic easily.

At the back of the Rulebook (pages 95 and 96) in 2e were a couple of pages on designing a realm via bloodline and roll. You got 'domain points' equal to the regent's bloodline score plus the die roll and then used these domain points to buy province levels, holding levels, etc, to make up the domain. Like a lot of 2e it was a bit variable and it didn't necessarily fit with the existing domains either.

I'd note that easy ways to make a domain stronger/weaker are to carve out independent vassals to make it weaker (although a diplomatically able PC can convince vassals to lend support of course) or give an overly weak domain various vassalage agreements where they receive some extra income / soldiers under some ancient right.


Regarding choosing domains: So, does it mean we can give a very big domain even to somebody with a very low Bloodline score?
If I well understood, it will only mean that he'll get less regency points than the land could give.
Am I wrong?

Not at all. In general a high bloodline score allows the regent to 'make more'; of their domain, and in the long term I'd expect the larger more powerful realms to have regents from families with high bloodlines as a result, but there are many other factors which can take effect to leave someone with a weak bloodline in charge. One easy way for a regent with low bloodline to rule a large domain is to have multiple vassals each collecting regency for them - although that usually doesn't work well with a modern mindset it makes perfect medieval sense.


Can anybody explain me how starting PCs choose domains in simple words?

In games that I've played in:

1. The DM outlines the available realms - large realms are often 'NPC' realms or would be subdivided for example.

2. the PC then looks at what sort of domain they want to play, who is playing neighbouring domains, and asks to be assigned the relevant domain.

3. The player then takes the starting character or asks the DM for a re-build of the regent.

4. Some players, inevitably, drop out as the game progresses and their domains go npc or are taken over by a new player.

[LucaCherstich]

Thank you, I got what you all say, and it all seems reasonable.
As far as I can see, it looks like I need to find a old Birthright product, or at least a pdf to print.
However, 169 euro on ebay is definitively too much for me ....
Thanks

[AndrewTall]

Have a look at the domains on the wiki - from recollection most of the anuirean ones had something up.

If any domains that you are interested in are overly skeletal let me know and I'll put something up.

Another good source, albeit somewhat campaign specific, is the download section on the ruins of empire website http://twilightpeaks.net/forum/ - Bjorn has done player's secrets for most domains and made a very impressive campaign world. He uses vassals a lot more than most games and made his own 3e conversion which he prefers to BRCS but from a fluff perspective he's a great source.

[LucaCherstich]

Sorry for the very stupid question, I'm just planning some games with my friends, and none of us is an expert in Birthright setting.
I've seen domains in the Wiki show regents.
How do these regents are supposed to be used?
I suppose it is obvious that these are just NPCs which I can pretend they never existed, if I want a player to start as the ruler of that dominion.
Or do you suggest to use these regents as Big Rulers and PCs as vassals (with small domains = provinces of the larger domain)?
Maybe that's better, in order to to make them familair with the setting.

[darknaj]

Sincere questions aren't stupid.

The regents listed are the characters in the default birthright setting. Players tend to choose one to play an RP the character as appropriate... important characters usually have more detail about their personalities than lesser characters.

Personally I would suggest finding a few small domains so you have less to keep track of and require more finese (imo). The Cities in the Sun book goes over the Khinasi lands that are perfect for this.

Being vassals is also a good idea for testing the waters.

[LucaCherstich]

what's a "RP"?
Regent Player?

[Magian]

RP it would seem in the context of what darknaj used it is Role Play. RP in Birthright otherwise is meant in terms of Regency Points.

[Magian]

There are different types of campaigns for Birthright. You can play the grand campaign where every player has their own realm or domain. I think a good idea for you would be to play the D&D party system and transition into the domain level.

You can take a party and run regular adventures with them and you and the players get to know the characters and they know each other. Then eventually they are awarded some lands or decide to take over some lands and make them their own. This way its a learning experience for all of you at once and creates a team play where they need each other. They can each have their respective domains within those lands that their class can benefit. So a warrior can be the lord over law, a rogue over the guilds, and cleric over the temples, and a wizard over the sources. Like in the party system they serve to help each other. Its a much more player friendly approach to starting out the game.

You can put this realm your players make anywhere you want and adjust the world to fit your game as you learn more. You can take a wild land with no rulers or replace an existing realm with it. The nice thing about Birthright is you can do whatever you want with it. You can find all kinds of rules here on birthright.net from the downloads section and wiki or take ideas from other games and products and plug them in. There really is no expert just experienced with their own rules when it comes to this game. Some of the players here get into historical ties into the Birthright world, and all that takes is some reading and research. None of that is necessary. There are many perspectives and ideas to play with and this community has provided hoard of treasure on the threads in previous years for more ideas. Other places to look are PBEM sites or Play By Email. They usually have some cool ideas for how to organize a game or just some neat homebrew rules.

What part of Italia are you from, if you don't mind me asking.

[LucaCherstich]

I'm from Abruzzo!
I Was born in Pescara and live in Vacri (a very small place nearby Chieti).

[Magian]

I was stationed at Brindisi back in 1997.

[LucaCherstich]

I think we'll play at domain & adventure level since the start.
Maybe I allow people to start from 4th or 6th level.
We are all D&D veterans and domain level is the only thing which really attracts us to BR.
I would like you to give me another suggestion.
I'm sure various of my players will want to play different human races.
Can you suggest me any domain or realm where races mix more freely?
Maybe something with old ethnic enclaves of old reigns.
Given the complicated history of BR this should have happened somewhere, for example with pockets of old Anuireans in Brech-ruled or Khinasi-ruled lands.

[Nameless One]

I think you should try starting a campaign in Roesone based on the Player's Secrets of Roesone. There's one Brecht and one Rjurik noble in Roesone, and the neighbouring Medoere has a Vos general. A Khinasi guilder is also quite active in the area but based in nearby Ilien. Medoere and Ilien are both covered by official Player's Secrets and there is a fanmade Player's Secrets of Ghoere which is located to the north. Aerenwe to the east is the only 'blank spot'. There is also Spidefell nearby which could provide the 'ultimate challenge' for adventuring PCs.

[AndrewTall]

For mixtures of races, etc I like Dhoesone, possibly overly so as the victims of the possibly-over-long PS Dhoesone I've partly written will attest.

Dhoesone is a frontier between Anuire & Rjurik lands, to the south it has Cariele and Mhoried which are two very different Anuirean realms, to the west it has the Telshore realms of the Rjurik, to the north wastlelands of monsters, goblins, etc, to the south weakly allied elven and goblin realms (!) It wouldn't be hard to fit in Brecht sailors, or even Khinasi refugees (there is a Khinasi wizard in the realm of Rjuvik for example) while Dwarves live in the Silverheads to the north. It also has many competing guilds, temples, etc so there is plenty going on - I've put a lot of PS Dhoesone on the wiki if you are interested in my thoughts.

On the downside you'd be less open to the rest of Anuire as the Aelvinnwode is in the way, but the history of Dhoesone does lead it to having some place in Anuire, albeit often as victim of powerplays and there is always the sea to connect you to the west coast.

[LucaCherstich]

Sorry for the continuous questions, but I'm just eager to learn as much as possible on Birthright.
I have a series of questions, just to check if I well understood.

1) PROVINCES & HOLDINGS
Are these 3 assumptions correct?
- A domain ca be built with holdings of different types in different (or the same) provinces.
- A Province is a kind of territorial holding for the potical ruler of the province (separate from Law, which is army & police).
- A domain could be built with different holding types, both in the same or in different provinces. Am I wrong?
If these three assumptions are true, dominions can be complicated, and I like it.
So, for example, we could have a domain like this:
- A high priest with 3 Temple holdings (giving both RP and GB) in 3 different provinces (provinces A,B and C).
- Maybe he is also the legitimate regent (a realm) of two of these provinces (A and B) and he receives both RP and GB from those 2 provinces (while Province C is maybe ruled by somebody else)
- Maybe he has also the Law holding in only one of the these 2 provinces ("Province B"), receiving RP and GB, giving the Law holding of the other province (Province C) to somebody else.
Is this domain correct according to the rules?

2) ASSETS
Can the assets (higways, bridges, etc.) be built by ANY holding, or just by the regent of the province?
If non-province holders built assets in the province, do they pay for the maintenance or is the province-regent to pay?

3) COURTS & PALACES
So, could every domain have a Court?
Even a domain without the regency on a province? (e.g. somebody having only guild holdings).
Can palaces be built by any kind of domain?

4) STARTING DOMAINS
I have understood that domain choose is kind of arbitrary choose by th DM.
If so, are domain stats (holding levels, assets, etc..) for starting domains also arbitrarily chosen by the DM?
Should I just take a domain from "Ruins of Empire" and substitute the regent with a PC, without any relationship to PC stats (e.g. bloodline score)??
I ask it with particular reference to courts (i've seen no sign of court levels in 2ed books).
Maybe I can just give a court whose value is equal to that of the largest non-source holding in a domain.

5) APPROXIMATIONS
Many costs are given according to fractions, especially regarding army & assets maintenance costs (e.g. 1/12 GB, 3/4 gb).
Since these costs tend to sum up, I found is easier to calculate the fractions, rather than keep the fraction.
So 1/12 of 1 gb will be 0.08 gb.
So 3/4 of 1 gb will be 0.75 gb.
I find it easier to do it, rather than keep aproximations.
What do you do for cases like these?
Calculate or approximate?
And if so, do you approximate by defect or excess?

[darknaj]

Sorry for the continuous questions, but I'm just eager to learn as much as possible on Birthright.
I have a series of questions, just to check if I well understood.

1) PROVINCES & HOLDINGS
Are these 3 assumptions correct?
- A domain ca be built with holdings of different types in different (or the same) provinces.
- A Province is a kind of territorial holding for the potical ruler of the province (separate from Law, which is army & police).
- A domain could be built with different holding types, both in the same or in different provinces. Am I wrong?
If these three assumptions are true, dominions can be complicated, and I like it.
So, for example, we could have a domain like this:
- A high priest with 3 Temple holdings (giving both RP and GB) in 3 different provinces (provinces A,B and C).
- Maybe he is also the legitimate regent (a realm) of two of these provinces (A and B) and he receives both RP and GB from those 2 provinces (while Province C is maybe ruled by somebody else)
- Maybe he has also the Law holding in only one of the these 2 provinces ("Province B"), receiving RP and GB, giving the Law holding of the other province (Province C) to somebody else.
Is this domain correct according to the rules?


Yes this is correct. Just have to remember that not all classes benefit from owning certain holdings. That is they get half or no RP income from the holding so there isn't much reason to have them. Economically speaking of course.



2) ASSETS
Can the assets (higways, bridges, etc.) be built by ANY holding, or just by the regent of the province?
If non-province holders built assets in the province, do they pay for the maintenance or is the province-regent to pay?


As a rule of thumb I play by that anything that effects the provience as a whole must be supported by the ruling regent. Projects that the regent doesn't want happening tend to have workforces that meet untimely ends, material shortages, etc.

Otherwise who ever makes it maintains it. Rare occasions have happened where something is traded at a later date or is subsidized (guilders agreeing to pay for some road maintence for example), but it is really up to whoever wants it around.



3) COURTS & PALACES
So, could every domain have a Court?
Even a domain without the regency on a province? (e.g. somebody having only guild holdings).
Can palaces be built by any kind of domain?

4) STARTING DOMAINS
I have understood that domain choose is kind of arbitrary choose by th DM.
If so, are domain stats (holding levels, assets, etc..) for starting domains also arbitrarily chosen by the DM?
Should I just take a domain from "Ruins of Empire" and substitute the regent with a PC, without any relationship to PC stats (e.g. bloodline score)??
I ask it with particular reference to courts (i've seen no sign of court levels in 2ed books).
Maybe I can just give a court whose value is equal to that of the largest non-source holding in a domain.


In theory yes anyone can have a court. To me having a court is more of a status symbol with a small bonus. Palaces being an even greater status symbol.

Substituting a PC for the domain regent from the "Ruins of Empire" is the easiest. Before the first turn you could let them choose their court level. Some players like big courts, others like small ones... best to let them pick in my opinion.



5) APPROXIMATIONS
Many costs are given according to fractions, especially regarding army & assets maintenance costs (e.g. 1/12 GB, 3/4 gb).
Since these costs tend to sum up, I found is easier to calculate the fractions, rather than keep the fraction.
So 1/12 of 1 gb will be 0.08 gb.
So 3/4 of 1 gb will be 0.75 gb.
I find it easier to do it, rather than keep aproximations.
What do you do for cases like these?
Calculate or approximate?
And if so, do you approximate by defect or excess?

I've only been involved in games that account for fractions. Can't remember off the top of my head if everything was rounded up to .25 minimum value or not. I personally would do this to make accounting easier.

[AndrewTall]

1) PROVINCES & HOLDINGS
Are these 3 assumptions correct?
- A domain can be built with holdings of different types in different (or the same) provinces. Yes, and generally will. Most rulers will have some law and possibly some guild, possibly even a small temple or two. Many temples will have some law, many guilds will aim for some law as well. The basic rulebooks tended to be very 'pure' but that's not too realistic in my view.


- A Province is a kind of territorial holding for the potical ruler of the province (separate from Law, which is army & police).

Law could also be criminal gangs, influence over police/army, strength of custom/laws, wise advisers who are looked to for guidance, etc - anything which is good at influencing any large group of people. A sidhe law holding would be composed of very different building blocks than a karamhul law holding.


- A domain could be built with different holding types, both in the same or in different provinces. Am I wrong? No, generally there will be some geographical proximity of holdings for historical reasons, but given inheritances, marriage, etc geographically isolated domains are quite possible.



Is this domain correct according to the rules? Yes. I would add in vassal rulers etc, possibly with multiple vassalage loyalties, to build a messy tangle ripe for conflict.


2) ASSETS
Can the assets (higways, bridges, etc.) be built by ANY holding, or just by the regent of the province? I'd say by any-one, although any law holder could oppose the attempt to build the project and anyone local will probably know about it if it is big enough to factor at domain level. In general however role-play issues will come into play - the ruler may not want roads that allow enemy armies ready passage through their realm, and may certainly have violent views on the building of castles! I'm a big fan of assets and see them as good ways to differentiate domains and add colour, Karamhul army-slaying traps such as glacial dams, collapsing bridges, prepared battlefields, etc could also be built with asset rules as a note.


If non-province holders built assets in the province, do they pay for the maintenance or is the province-regent to pay? The owner of the asset benefits from its powers and pays for its upkeep. You could have assets gifted, sponsored, loaned, etc - a ruler building a nice cathedral and gifting it to the local temple as penance for something they did / were going to do would be fairly normal as would a guilder building some wondrous work of art like a theater or library with which to boast their fortune and taste.


3) COURTS & PALACES
So, could every domain have a Court?
Even a domain without the regency on a province? (e.g. somebody having only guild holdings).
Can palaces be built by any kind of domain? Yes to all, smaller domains may ask to share a court although that is fraught with diplomatic issues best handed through role-play and DM arbitration. I note that again role-play issues can arise over this - if a lesser noble, guilder, etc had a grander palace and greater court than the local king then a confrontation may well arise over wounded pride.



4) STARTING DOMAINS
I have understood that domain choose is kind of arbitrary choose by the DM.
If so, are domain stats (holding levels, assets, etc..) for starting domains also arbitrarily chosen by the DM?
Should I just take a domain from "Ruins of Empire" and substitute the regent with a PC, without any relationship to PC stats (e.g. bloodline score)??
I ask it with particular reference to courts (i've seen no sign of court levels in 2ed books).
Maybe I can just give a court whose value is equal to that of the largest non-source holding in a domain.
Arbitrary is a harsh way of looking at it. The DM will have an idea of the type of game wanted and try to create balanced domains without critical vulnerabilities or easy wins that could end the game too quickly. I'd say that court level = highest holding level would be a good rule of thumb for courts, but regents noted as frugal might have a level or two lower and profligate regents the converse.


5) APPROXIMATIONS
Many costs are given according to fractions...
Personally I go decimal, excel doesn't care so just sling in the sums...