View Full Version : Playing Around with the Map of Aduria

06-03-2011, 03:02 PM
I decided to play around with placing tribal and political regions on the map of Aduria. I tried to transfer the old Gen Con map names and locations to this one.

I am trying to play with parallels of earth with respect to location and placement. Not that its my goal but was my reasoning for making some of the boundaries. The boundaries aren't final I am just playing around and would like some feedback to help me flesh it out for myself.

Masetia I figure is a Mesopotamian-Egyptian like tribe with Pheonecian-like city states that spread around even to other continents beyond Cerilia and Aduria. Southern settlements in Cerilia where Khinasi are seem to justify this. I went with river valleys as main sources of centralization. The north is Nile like and the south is fertile crescent-like. A necropolis governed by a lost one sound cool?

The Gold Coast follows down from Masetia into an Ethiopian like area and the rest of the southern part more african cultures could be set with appropriate geography.

Djinni-Persia is an arabian adventures flavor I'd guess. I am not sure of the final border next to the Yuan-ti being so far north, maybe instead having the Yuan-ti go way south and use the mountains as a natural border. I don't know if I even like this idea of a culture here because of the Basarji come from Djapar and I'd think that would be the big Arabian adventures location outside of Khinasi. Also the fact that there is no desert would leave an Arabian culture short. I always considered a dark Aztec kind of civilization that was corrupted by Azrai maybe lead by a lost one.

Yuan-ti Empire I figure could use the exotic looking geography with the lakes and mountains and the desert is likely a tribal nomads land of some sort. Maybe the M'bolan tribes not sure would be in that desert. I am very unsure of what to do with the Yuan-ti.

M'bolan Tribes where I placed them seem to follow being Iberian Algerian. With the great desert to the south maybe even nomadic tribes there.

Beastmen I figure dominate the area in the borders where the name is but like the goblins and elves in cerilia have locations and interactions within the lines of the other political-cultural regions. Likely the main demi-human humanoid race(s) of Aduria. I get a feeling they are a conglomeration of different race types like lion men, wolf men, or any assortment of undefinable features. Likely from the corruption of the shadow. I'd say take any local beasts in Aduria and they could have been turned humanoid by Azrai for more forces.

Andu and Anuirean Colonies I figure is where the Eleanor of Aquataine expansion would have been along with some of the other tribes of the Andu being there. Of course the reconquista of the Anuirean empire gives this location the name of the old Anuirean colonies too. I have some work on Eleanor and Aquataine but it was done isolated from the rest of the Adurian regions. Its mostly conceptual at the moment.

South Andu a region I figured could be a place where Rjurik and Andu meet along with the beastmen. Not sure if I like it, but i do want something there to tie in with the Mhora tribe being where I put them.

Mhora I put here to tie in with the Celts. I get the feeling this tribe is very much like Scotland and having ties to the celts by proximity and likely intermingling would make sense. As they are a tribe of Andu the mixture of the two become Mhora a very Briton-like outcome.

Celts as it says in the Gen Con map unconquered. So I have some ideas to radicalize this island from what standard Birthright brings us even extending those ideas to radicalize the shadow world. What I am conceptualizing is a Pict-Gaelic culture. I am kinda on the side of describing them as so fierce they make the modern Vos look like kittens I mean not even Azrai could touch them. Also I like they idea of tieing in some Arthurian myth, less of the French Briton stuff of Roele of uniting the land as one, and playing on the romance and archaeic feel of an earlier age where magic is raw and less polished. Also I like the idea of tying in Eleanor with this setting somehow as a Gweniviere. For the most part the south is more like the Mhora but definitely not recognizable as Anuirean and the further north you get the more archaic they are up to the north most very Pict savages or brutes. I think Conan was based on the Welsh which are part of this setting who through the sword and sorcery line is a formidable warrior of this setting base. The romans couldn't defeat the Caledonians or Picts, nor could the Anglo-saxons, nor the Vikings as the north regions of Briton and the Scottish highlands have remained a fiercely independant land. They even took the Viking ships and made them better and created their own sea empire. Now this is a very confederated version of the mixed tribes and cultural changes in that historical region and can be misleading to over simplify and homogenize the peoples therein. But that is basically what makes up Scotland. Aside from my personal bias of being descended from these people I like having the comparison I made earlier of them to the Cerilian Vos. There are some other stuff I have in mind but I'd rather get into that after some feedback.

Rjurik I tried to get them a scandinavian look for regions. Norway in the north, Finland south part of the peninsula and Sweden the rest of the South.

Brecht is a little small and not sure if I like it there or elsewhere. I figure they should be given similar place to that of where they are now. Maybe even take away the Norway part of Rjurik and give to them.

Considering that I was mostly going for regions of origin this map may be different as of modern Aduria. I am not sure how to translate it. Maybe giving the Celts some expansion room and bringing about more of the Eleanor thing. Hmmm... I just came up with that as I typed. I am liking it so far.

A controversial idea I have regarding Eleanor is her bloodline. I figure she is very closely tied to the Roele line her's being 80ish. I like giving her the long life ability so she may have even been at Deismaar or knew Roele. I like the idea that she is the bride every lord vying for the Iron Throne wants. Very much borrowed from the historical Eleanor. Of course then comes Arktour or whatever version of a name I come up with for Arthur from Celtland and perhaps something can happen.

Anyway I hope you enjoy my ideas, not very original for the most part. I am just trying to bring things together in a way that satisfies me and working through ideas with this community has been fun and helpful.

06-03-2011, 03:04 PM
Shoot I forgot the attachement.

06-03-2011, 07:26 PM
At 08:02 AM 6/3/2011, Magian wrote:

>Masetia I figure is a Mesopotamian-Egyptian like tribe with
>Pheonecian-like city states that spread around even to other
>continents beyond Cerilia and Aduria. Southern settlements in
>Cerilia where Khinasi are seem to justify this. I went with river
>valleys as main sources of centralization. The north is Nile like
>and the south is fertile crescent-like. A necropolis governed by a
>lost one sound cool?

Sounds cool to me. Any ideas regarding the nature of the
Lost? Since the Magian is one of that group, and so is the Raven,
there`s a lot of diversity possible. Of course, both those
characters seem to have acquired a bloodline in one way or
another. I`ve always thought it best to describe the Lost as a sort
of proto-bloodline. That is, having something like a blood ability
(though not necessarily one based on those in the BR materials) and
maybe a bloodline score (that doesn`t transfer to offspring--no
bloodline strength?) along with the ability to cast true magic. In
essence, that means magical ability should probably be a
characteristic of such an NPC. Other than that, though, s/he could
be as diverse as any awnshegh.

>Djinni-Persia is an arabian adventures flavor I`d guess. I am not
>sure of the final border next to the Yuan-ti being so far north,
>maybe instead having the Yuan-ti go way south and use the mountains
>as a natural border. I don`t know if I even like this idea of a
>culture here because of the Basarji come from Djapar and I`d think
>that would be the big Arabian adventures location outside of
>Khinasi. Also the fact that there is no desert would leave an
>Arabian culture short. I always considered a dark Aztec kind of
>civilization that was corrupted by Azrai maybe lead by a lost one.

If you use a member of the Lost for the Meso-/Egyptian culture, it
might be a little redundant to have one in the Persian one. Since
the Lost can be of just about any kind, it need not necessarily be
redundant, but your description of the region as being Djinni-Persia
does seem to have a really interesting possibility... what about one
of the more powerful elemental creatures? Planar monsters are (and
should be) extra rare in BR, but one or two showing up is perfectly
fine, and a powerful one might very well rise to rule a kingdome.

>Yuan-ti Empire I figure could use the exotic looking geography with
>the lakes and mountains and the desert is likely a tribal nomads
>land of some sort. Maybe the M`bolan tribes not sure would be in
>that desert. I am very unsure of what to do with the Yuan-ti.

For a very long time, I`ve been muddling around with the idea of
including yuan-ti into a BR campaign. The problem is that they are
just so Asian creatures in tone, and we don`t really have a parallel
in the regular BR texts. There`s nothing about that type of monster
that means they absolutely have to be Asian, of course. A
Westernized version of snake-men is perfectly plausible, but since
the background in D&D of the creature is so Asian, including them
without considering their overall cultural significance seems
problematic. Having them exist on their own island or something
seems like the best idea. The plan I`ve been mulling over is having
them exist on one of the Dragon Isles where they are ruled by an
awnshegh called The Naga. (Nagas are similarly Asian/Indian in
theme, and so should be located away from Cerilia.)


06-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Dernit Gary I thought the map I transfered the areas from was more well known. Here it is attached.

I figured it was the original concepts of what to put down on Aduria. With that I was trying to see what it would look like to add some rough ideas to where they could go on the new map and try to flesh it out more.

I don't think any of the ideas I brought up are very original I simply built upon the major headings on this old map and expanded a little conceptually.

As for there being 2 lost on Aduria and that having a danger of being redundant I'd argue that making the Raven and Magian so close together are more redundant. I would think that each empire in Aduria is head by one of the lost from the description I read in the BR boxed set atlas flight from the shadow. I don't think the Masetian zone is populated by that race or culture. I'd say its all ruins and places of adventure and exploration and possible conquest. I would think the Gold Coast cultures could have started to move in and claim some of it. So the necropolis would be a lost lording over a place of ruin possibly to expand later or well whatever reason. Something to work on there.

I am not sure I like the Djinni-Persia located in the south cause I always liked them being on Djapar. I always considered Aztec and a darker corrupt version of that historical reference.

The Yuan-ti I'd think would also be a dark version and possibly a corrupted and cursed race also lead by a lost over lord.

I haven't really thought about how I'd deal with the lost. Personally I have my version of the Magian as not one of the lost, he's from another continent as are his followers that came over with him that are from another culture not yet even explored. Officially that is.

Right now for the lost I'd think the necropolis lord would be very steeped into necromancy. Thats about all I have right now.

Almost forgot I'd probably have a lost overlord in the beastmen lands too. A loose chaotic confederation probably with Awnie lords and such. This would probably bring out the more chaotic evil essence of the shadow in these lands and how they are organized. Lesser in the domain department, nothing like an empire, but a vast region spanning the inner continent and guarding the great lakes in the center of the continent.

As far as the lost having bloodlines we could simply say they were at Deismaar, which I believe they were. Even if not, then the lands choice would be used as a default way to spread the divine essence for any expansion. That is assuming the logic that the king and the land are one. With mebhaighl coursing through the world like life blood to a Gaia like planet why not? After all, what we've seen is only the mebhaighl that mortal magics can tap. A more fragile and subject to destruction sphere of magic imo.

Regarding the Yuan-ti I am not sure I like them being an entire empire that is so expansive it rivals the size of Cerilia. Then again maybe the empire has fallen, the lost lord that controlled it stuck in the shadow world and its a loose web of small kingdoms and mostly ruins and treacherous magics hidden. Maybe another frontier for the domain and adventure levels of play.

06-04-2011, 01:26 PM
The map is new to me too!

In terms of bloodlines it is easy for Aduria - the hosts of Azrai marched north, fought at Deismaar, and likely retreated south, add in colonisation, bloodtheft, etc and I'd expect as many scions south of the Straits of Aerele as north.

In terms of the Yuan-ti empire, one fix is to break it down into competing states like the current 'Anuirean empire'. I'd consider making them quite introverted culturally so that they mainly compete with each other and don't look outside for more than places to raid, harvest slaves from, etc.

06-06-2011, 01:54 AM
I don't have all the zones labeled but I played around with the idea of the Djinni-Persia with elements and regions. Not sure if I like the idea just playing around with it. The mountain kingdoms I put as earth, just south of there air I figure cause of strong winds from the sea, water with the lakes area, and the great dessert as fire. Maybe the Djinn can be awnsheghlien or something. I am pretty blank on that idea. However I'd want to be more Shai'ir with elements and Djinn if I use it in Aduria and go another way with Djafra.

I moved the Yuan-ti down with the river states in the south.

Aquataine I was thinking either where I have it or on the other side of the two rivers. I figure for beastmen the marsh regions could have lizardmen. Maybe have lizardmen lands in the other marsh areas of Aduria.

The Masetian wastes is where Deismaar was and the Egypt like ruins, tombs, and wonders. I figure an old-kingdom spot could be placed in that river that goes into the mountains like a valley of the kings.

I don't like the idea of African where the Gold Coast is supposed to be, something I have to work out I guess. If anything maybe a Shaka-Zulu type empire if I did. Maybe a former of that more broken up now after Deismaar. I guess I go that route because of the idea of the Andu tribes fleeing the corrupt empires of the shadow.

Still so many places to work out but with feedback I may be able to work it out.

Celts I am not sure I want them to branch out. I like the idea of the Mhora having been influenced by them. Intermingling on the mainland where I have it bordered off and some Andu influence with iron or bronze age weapons and armor in the south kingdom of the isle. This would likely be an Arthur-like kingdom. Not sure if some Mhora stayed and or the Celts moved to the mainland and expanded. I have two concepts for Ersheghlien on the Celtic Isle. Also I am going for this land being untouched by the shadow. That is the reason this tribe didn't flee, they were "protected."

The parent states of Rjurik and Brecht I don't know what to do. Maybe just have those who didn't flee still there? That would beg the question of the Andu regions in the same way. Refer to previous map for parent states.

Those are the ideas I've come up with the past few days.

06-06-2011, 09:54 PM
Using the old Adurian map of Gen Con 1998 and Ian Hoskin's map with political regions delineated I tried to closely interpret the areas with the new Richard Baker's sketch (I think its his) of Aduira.

Looking that the similar land features and borders I tried transposing them from the old maps onto the new one. My intent was to use Richard's loose ideas as a foundation for inspiration for my endeavor to further my efforts at creating Aduria.

The maps on this thread prior to this one were an exercise in tribal origins of some of the tribes now on Cerilia and ideas tied to the Adurian expansion locals.

I have attached the 2 old maps with the interpretations on the new map.

06-08-2011, 10:46 PM
This map has the areas I think could be considered specific tribal regions of origin. Also I divided up some of the areas I think are imperial to perhaps get a better idea of how to manage those areas of vast land.

Why go through with mapping out the tribal origins if they were conquered by the old empires of the Shadow? It has historical value, and any pockets that may remain or even entire kingdoms of the old tribes could still be around like in the Khinasi states there are some traces of Masetians and their ruins not to mention possible ersheghlien that could inhabit these locations. Also it is a way for me to reason out mapping a current map of political areas for Aduria once I decide to get into the magnification of each area. Keep in mind most of these tribal areas are a comparable size to Anuire, thus are large and need some attention to develop.

Masetia: I divided it up into upper and lower to reflect the differences in the Egyptian-like region of Upper and the Mesopotamia/Phoenician-like city states and the less settled lands of the Lower. I figure the lower Masetia has been taken over by the Ghana Empire up to the point of the wastelands since Deismaar or even leading up to it.

Ghana and Mali Empires: I am using these names to reflect the source of historical empires of the regions of the African Gold Coast that I am currently thinking of using for a basis for these cultural regions of Aduria.

Andu: I think this is the likely place of origin and colonial expansion of Anuire. I have come to an addendum regarding the Mhoru and that is they are mixed with a tribe of Celts that settled in the Andu region. So the Mhoru are up in the Andu region but have traces of the Celtic culture that differ from the other tribes there.

Brecht: I am not fully decided on if I want this area to be so small but it is isolated like the basin they are currently in so it does fit.

Rjurik: I like the idea of having the northern coast like a Norway, the southern part of the peninsula as a Finland, and the southern basin for like a Sweden giving this region a Scandinavian look. I have come up with an ershegh for this area. I like them being close to the Celt isles cause of their culture ties in with each other.

Celts: Are pretty much what I've settled on for this region. I have some ideas that I like. For example I would call this island the stronghold of old magic and a close primal tie to the land and its people.

Vos: I decided to put them here since they are the old tribe of magic regarding the humans and are steeped with large humanoid regions neighboring them like in Vosgaard of today. Making them the southern-most tribe that fled also gives a good reason for Azrai to have corrupted them. Also the Isle of the Celts and it looking like it broke off the content plays into this with my ideas for that land. I considered putting the Vos where I have the Plains Beastmen, but decided to leave the lakes to be protected by them instead.

The Beastmen Tribes: I am still working on this idea but tried to divide up the geography into managable sizes. I have a notion that something with that lake and a source of power, magic, corruption or any combination of those or other ideas has something to do with the Beastmen. Originally I was thinking the Vos could have used it for their divinations, but ya never know, they do have a border on the smaller lake.

The M'bolan tribes: I have no idea what I could do with these guys. The only source we have is that little dot on the Gen Con map of 1998. I figure some of these tribes are nomadic and have contests in the Great Desert with the Yuan-ti Empire. The other regions I figured would provide a good support for economy and resources for the nomadic lands. Its kind of a reverse engineering but it does look good after I put the lines on the map. Now to find a style and culture for the M'bolan. As I took a moment to think of it, Algeria and Morroco may have a fit here. Maybe even Tunisia or shall I say Carthage!

Yuan-ti Empire: Like the Beastmen tribes I divided this up for management purposes and perhaps it works out to have a tri-imperial state. 3 kings that under Azrai were united. I didn't realize how many variations there are with this monster type. I looked them up and some wiki articles have variations that are related. This really fits in with the bloodform and corruption of Azrai and can be plugged into a caste system for the empire. Some Awnsheghlien could also come out of it. Also the Yuan-ti have workable relations with lizard folk which could come in useful for dominion over other regions or dealing with the beastmen. I had an idea that the Yuan-ti are an ancient race or perhaps are a fallen human tribe corrupted by Azrai or both. For a culture I am thinking maybe Aztec and the Yuan-ti could lord over their old human tribes and use them as sacrifice. I think that fits the corrupt empire of the shadow motif. The Middle Empire is in contest with the M'bolan nomads in the Great Desert for control of the large river that flows through there.

Persia: I have divided it up into 3 regions again for management. Since Persia was a vast empire there are a variety of cultures that could be borrowed to reflect variations of this empire. I haven't decided on anything yet, but a western India could be one, then obviously a more Persian one, and then a Asia Minor culture could be another. I definitely have some studying to do on this one.

To conclude I hope this is interesting to read if anything. This is my first attempt at Aduria and I haven't read anyone else's work on it yet to keep my ideas for this expansion my own. That is outside of the Birthright design team's ideas shared to the public. I am sure many of us on this community have already fleshed out their Aduria and likely beyond. To me this project is fun and probably a good idea for the community to work on like they did with the 3E BRCS. Possibly even more important as we can see that Birthright doesn't rely on an edition of D&D rules that are as fickle as a corporate scheme to make money. That is to say it changes like the wind, but the setting doesn't except along the timelines we play out. Certainly with most or even all players settled on their own Aduria this is likely a futile notion, but fun none the less to ponder. The threads have had a few suggestions of a living Birthright and I think expanding Aebrynis would be a great boost for anything like it. Where better to start expanding the foundations for a living Birthright than Aduria? Again I rant.

06-10-2011, 11:05 AM
Who created the Gen Con map? I've never seen it before.

Also I thought the concept for the Masetians was Greco/Roman not Egyptian.

I pictured them more Greco/Etruscan-Samnite.

06-10-2011, 09:22 PM
Who created the Gen Con map? I've never seen it before.

If I recall correctly I found it on the net around the year 1998. I saw it and snagged it up cause it sure was a gem. Again IIRC the source may have been the WotC site or some announcement like that or from someone here at BR.net. After some thought I wonder if it was Anakin Miller that pointed it out to me. It was so long ago things get all fuzzy.

Also I thought the concept for the Masetians was Greco/Roman not Egyptian.

I pictured them more Greco/Etruscan-Samnite.

I don't know if there ever was an official concept of the Masetians released. There was some discussions on the mailing list and BR.net forums in the direction of Greco-Roman foundations. Other than that just a few mentions here and there in the printed materials with most traces left in the Khinasi states and the destroyed homelands on Aduria.

At this point I am engaging merely in my speculation and conjecture while attempting to be creative and find my own picture of what Aduria (Masetians namely in this reply) could be.

Where I came up with Mesopotamia-Egyptian was a play on words with Masetian. After that I looked for a suitable spot on Aduria where the maps attached earlier made reference to the location of this tribe. From there I tried transferring the fertile crescent into the corner of northern Aduria.

After a bit of thought of the Greco-Roman roots, perhaps a new play on words could bring a more accurate foundation for the Masetians. Mediterranean could be the basis for the city states of those various sea faring people. This would allow for all the hints of historic cultural references that have been attributed to the Masetians. Now to build on this we can treat the Great Sea of the South as the Aebrynis version of the Mediterranean Sea.

There is evidence the Masetians had some settlements on Cerilia in the region where the Khinasi states are, so it could be they may have had other settlements around Aduria and maybe even Djafra or the isles. But since the empires in the south of Aduria were expansionist maybe they were destroyed. The Basarji seem to be a very large influence being from Djafra and settling the isles, the Khinasi states, and it would appear the Djinni-Persia empire in Aduria.

These could be the reasons the different versions of the Masetian city-states (that being Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Phonetician) didn't make their own empires that reflect their counterparts on historical earth. Perhaps all they managed to do was become a conglomeration of various cultures trading peacefully and then along came the shadow, Deismaar, and their homelands destruction on northern Aduria. Those that may have survived were conquered and absorbed by the neighboring powers and ruins and traces of lineage are all that remain. With them not being very homogenized as a people any conquering culture could quickly absorb the remnants of survivors I'd think further strengthening the idea of the Masetians having many cultural roots.

02-19-2012, 08:18 PM
Its been awhile since I posted on this so forgive me if I repeat anything.

It looks like Havens of the Great Bay places the Brecht on the west coast, so I'll be placing them south of the Rjurik in the basin across from the Celts.

I think the Vos should be somewhat mixed with the Celts, because of the tattoo magic and the connection with the Picts. Although the Picts were in the north and were a tribe of their own. Perhaps the Vos ended up migrating from the northern Celt lands to some location, not sure. The Celts are going to be a very strong magic land with it being the only land not touched by the shadow, as far as we can tell and it being very wild so in the Shadow World I am thinking it is the one place where the Faerie world holds up from the shadow. I am still working on the Vos placement and tie with the Celts, just some ideas.

The Celts being wild, unconquered, high magic, very green, very fae, with elements of Arthurian legend probably more primordial so closer to the Stone Henge druid bit since there is a close mix with Vos and Rjurik cultures it seems to fit. An Ershegh is going to be a guardian the lord of the Unicorns protecting this land from the shadow with the "Mists" or powerful wardings. Not the Golden Unicorn, but like the dragons there are more than one and they are guardians. Just an idea. Anyway the mists sometimes cross over into the mainland especially where the Rjuriks were. Lost in the mists are the lost forces of the shadow forever trapped in the mists always trying to invade the island and when the mists cross the mainland the shadow warps it and the lost soldiers also corrupted raid the Rjurik homelands. Now they are called the Venlands cause of the Ven (shadow soldiers or Wendol) come from the mists and raid these lands. There is an Ershegh that was a king in the old Rjurik lands that stayed to keep the shadows forces at bay while the last Rjurik fled. He stayed to fight to the last, never dropped his sword and was turned into the Valkyr a guardian that fights the Ven when they invade his lands.

The lower parts of the Celt island are more Arthurian than the north. The north most point where the woods are is where the Unicorn lord is. A magical forest of great power. The lords of the south can be tested by the Green Man or the Green Knight. OK that is a ripoff of myth but I like it. The land itself manifests this ersheghlien depending on the form and what is needed. Since the land and king are one it is an easy event to justify.

Andu lands have been colonies of Anuire, but also a kingdom that hasn't fallen ever of the old Andu tribe closest to Roele. Aquataine (name will change concept from the devs) and their queen Eleanor. This is the kingdom of courtly love, a champion knight or paladin borrowing from the myth of Lancelot. I like the idea of giving Eleanor long life so she's been alive since the Roeles were around, but she wasn't at Deismaar, however her bloodline is 80ish. She is a most attractive bride for the lords of Diemed, Avanil and Boeruine as they vie for her favor. Her kingdom is strong as is her knighthood. The rest of the lands are a mess, I haven't gotten into them yet but I figure Aquataine is a beacon. A possible tie in with the celt king should one ever unit the island playing with the Arthurian legend with Lancelot and Eleanor as Guenevere. Of course this would all be loosely connected with names changed so its more Birthright than old earth myth.

There is a river that goes deep down into the western mountains where Old Masetia is. It could be a valley as well. So I am thinking its a part of that culture that survived the cataclysm. However I am going with an Egyptian motif with the valley being the Valley of the Kings with a necropolis there and an old Lost One holding up residence there.

The big mountain patch I just thought of the other day is a place for a great old Wyrm that served as Azrai's true Champion as opposed to little Raesene. At first I was thinking of going with a WoW like Deathwing dragon with the jaws being molded with bloodsilver. Not sure about that.

Aduria is known as the Empires of Blood or the Land of Blood. I was thinking it was because most of Azrai's blood was absorbed by this continent, therefore the land itself is corrupt, hence the affect it has on the wardings from the Celt island. The shadow world counterpart is much worse as well on Aduria. Beastmen were aboriginal to the lands and have been corrupted into many different types. Just an idea. Kinda like that Hydrakin.

As far as how things are now with the Brecht, Rjurik, Vos lands I think they are all changed. Only the Andu have a hold on the ancestral lands. The Venlands and the Valkyr ershegh maybe he has some followers left, like the women as Valkyrie soldiers, but I think he is still on the mission of holding the Ven at bay so they don't travel around the horn to the west. I figure he's close to the north point in those mountains, but I figure he can fly and patrol.

The Unicorn Lord is likely a powerful old true wizard or maybe some kind of aspect. He is much larger than any normal horse I am thinking maybe 2-3 stories perhaps. He pretty much stays in his glen maintaining the mists to protect the land from Azrai's blood.

The Wyrm I have looking at Cerilia. I am thinking he's a good intro for a campaign from Anuire. Certainly way to powerful, but an idea. The grand scheme is that the humans moving to Cerilia was planned so they would destroy the elven hold so that centuries later the empires of shadow could move in once the elves were scattered and weakened. Something like the Celt island protection and the fae with elves having some power over the shadow forces.

By the way something to consider and I hadn't realized this until rereading things. Azrai wasn't always the lord of shadow. At first he was the God of Knowledge and Pride. It would seem the shadow corrupted him as well.

Anyway just some rough ideas I've been playing with in my head for this setting. I'll likely redo the map borders again to reflect some of this. Originally I had all but given up sharing ideas, but today I saw may views on this thread so I figure I'll just go ahead and play around a little more.

02-19-2012, 10:46 PM
For a campaign that I played with briefly, Azrai was the god of beauty, intelligence, leadership, death, destruction, chaos and the domination of all life.

I noted to the players (who abruptly woke up from their 'let me explain the basic campaign setting' doze as I went through Azrai and asked me to rewind and say his portfolio again, sloooowly) that 'he had a bad day'. :rolleyes:

02-20-2012, 07:21 AM

I found the bit about Azrai while reading the artifacts from the BoP for a new priest character I am playing to find if any items matched up with him. Under the Vipers Eye description it goes into some detail about Azrai, Vorynn, and the Vos of Aduria and the 1st Lost One.

When looking at the portfolios of the gods and then comparing the new and old gods and add in the powers class of the new ones it raises some questions. When reading the description of Avani in the BoP there is a discussion about her portfolio that some believe she is the direct descendant of Basaia while others believe she has other gods essence absorbed into her as well. This would explain why Ruornil is a weak god and Avani is also a god of magic. It would also explain Avani being the god of reason, perhaps some of Azrai's portfolio of Knowledge.

I also go into some guess work as to the mixing of the essences and how the new god's children come about. The characters that ascended absorbed a lot of god stuff and not all of it fit with their nature. So I believe this divine essence compelled the gods to create children in order for it to manifest itself in another that wouldn't reject it. I am sure the new gods are still a messy mixture of god stuff since the ebb and flow of temples and empires manifest themselves throughout history.

Taking a step back to an earlier topic. Under the Viper's Eye description it mentions the corruption of the Vos by Azrai after he is lord of shadow. Vorynn is mentioned as an introspective god that the Vos lose patience with, hence turn to Azrai for quick results to power. After reading this I had the notion to tie in my personal background with the Magian and his homeland. That being perhaps the Vos were a promising young race, but still immature regarding the responsibilities of magic, hence Vorynn appeared aloof, but really he was trying to help them learn magic in an evolutionary way that took generations to master so the balance of nature wouldn't be destroyed. Like the lands where the Magian comes from that race is much more mature and has mastered those lessons long ago. I am going for a very ancient China like land where nature and people are one and magic is normal here with the Magian's homelands. Very diverse as well with many tribes therein, so I am not sure the details, only general ideas, especially the more I think about it. But this generational evolutionary outlook would explain why the Vos lost their patience and how Azrai corrupted by the shadow won them over from Vorynn.

With Azrai being corrupted by the shadow, it begs the question, what is the shadow? It would seem to me to be a force of darkness that opposes the force of light. Very simple to explain, but we tend to take for granted the personae that are called deities as the cause of the nature of things, hence Azrai being the shadow, rather than one of its victims. It can be borrowed from Tolkien's Silmarillion about Morgoth being a very powerful aspect and then his works eventually turn to power, which is the corruption of his nature. Along these lines with knowledge being a frontier portfolio in that knowledge without limit such as looking into the knowledge of the shadow can be a corrupting endeavor. Such a thing could be said that an opening of Pandora's box for the sake of knowing what is inside. Just some thoughts.

Regarding the whole Deismaar thing with the mixing of the gods. It would seem Moradin remains the same, like an unchanging mountain.

Also I have been wondering as I look into what orogs are. It seems they are nothing more than underground orcs. If this is true, what is the big deal with such anti-orc notions for Cerilia? Is it the Forgotten Realms version of orcs that is detested? The Tolkien orcs seem to be interchangeable with the goblins depending on where they live. I haven't done much research on that, so I could be wrong, but if its a matter of being subterranean vs. surface dwelling the distinction between them is a fine line.

Now what to do with the beastmen and where to place the Vos...

Are the beastmen a single tribe of ape-like men a primitive animistic tribal culture? Or, do we have a bunch of different types of beastmen based on different animal types a sort of corruption by the shadow to create its initial army fodder for its grand war. If that, then were the Vos involved with their knowledge of magic, hence their more savage nature today? I always considered having the Vos around those interior lakes of Aduria, so them being close to the beastmen fits along those lines. Something magical about the waters in the lake I guess, and pools of water being a source of divination, though considered a lesser magic, is a road to greater magic. This could play into the pictograph tatoos and such the Vos mingling with simpler tribes. Or being corrupted into simple tribes of beastmen. My initial thought about the beastmen from Aduria brings me back to my He-Man days and the orange character named Beast Man. A furry man with a tribally painted face. Anyway still working on ideas.

02-20-2012, 03:04 PM
This is my more recent ideas about the origins of the tribes in Aduria. I am left handed and use a mouse with my right so its not the prettiest borders.

I am not sure about the M'Bolan yet. I am pretty sure they begin in the north where I have their lands start. As far as the great desert I don't know. Are they nomads too?

I tried to go with natural boundaries as a guide.

Depending on what I do with the interior where the Vos / Beastmen are I may reshape the Brecht basin into those grasslands some. Or I may take away the south part of the Brechts again and give that to the Vos or even Mhora origins tribe part of the Andu. That or give them the interior where the grasslands are south of Andu with a pass somewhere in the mountains.

The Andu I may have take up the bit of coast on the north up and around the mountainous horn where the Rjurik are giving that land to the origins of the Boru perhaps. Leaving the Rjurik with the mountainous woody areas all around.

Over all still just sketching things out.

02-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Heh, forgot to attach the map above.

02-20-2012, 03:23 PM
Here are some specific locations that I mentioned 2 posts ago. There are a total of 9 red dots all in the northern part of Aduria so as to help you find everything. I also used the spray can with gray color to give an idea of the mists around the Celt island.

The red dot on the Celt island is where about I'd think the Unicorn Lord is. The Green man/knight manifests only when he is needed as he and the land are basically one. The mists are a massive ward held by the Unicorn Lord to protect the island from the corruption of the shadow and this protection extends into the shadow world preventing the Faerie world from corruption as the last bastion of that world from the shadow.

The mists travel into the old Rjurik lands now called the Venlands and the old lost legions of the shadow are forever trapped in the wards and can come out only when the wards touch the mainland as it is corrupted by the blood of Azrai.

The red dot in the north on the horn is about where the Valkyr is the last Rjurik king to defend his people's flight from the shadow and now defends the encroachments of the Ven from the mists.

Also something I had thought about and forgotten is the Celt island looks like it broke off from the mainland, perhaps something done by the Unicorn Lord to defend this land?

The two red dots in the Andu zone is about the 2 points I think that Aquataine could be. I figure its located on prime real estate, between 2 rivers seems like a nice spot, but I am unsure of that huge marshland on the coast. Still working on that a little.

The 4 red dots are the location of the Old Egyptian Masetian valley of Kings and necropolis. I figure the Necropolis is in the southern most part.

The red dot in the mountainous zone is just to signify the approximate spot where the great wyrm resides, but I am sure he can call the entire range of mountains or even the continent his home.

02-20-2012, 11:51 PM
I had Azrai and the Lost create 'beast-men' by corrupting the clans who didn't flee to Cerilia into 'better' forms - like gnolls for example. They were, quite literally men who were part-beast. So I had the beast-man' title include all sorts of were-beasts and all the host of 'not quite people' creatures with most only found in a limited region rather than refer to a specific race. In my campaign Azrai's intention wasn't to conquer Cerilia and the gods, he just wanted to restore it to its 'proper' place in the Spirit World and to then continue in its 'progression towards the infinite' rather than being 'fixed in immutable inferiority'. He had 'good' intentions if one worked from the basis that Azrai, as the most powerful god and the most able to shape the spirit world to his whim, should be in charge of the destiny of all life. :rolleyes:

Orogs were quite a late addition to 2e from (hazy) recollection, I think that the 'no orcs' rule was simply to differentiate and simplify Cerilia a little by removing a superfluous race in a similar manner to 'no kobolds or gnomes'. Without orcs orogs became a quite distinct society rather than an add-on to orcs, goblins meanwhile took over the role of orcs without loss.

02-21-2012, 12:04 AM
So no interest in including the Yikarian Empire in Aduria? This is one of few aspects of Birthright outside of Cerilia that actually got published. That said, the version I wrote up for the wiki did need a lot of tweaks to make it politically interesting for Birthright.


02-21-2012, 09:15 AM
Admittedly the Yikarian empire was at first glance from Dragon Magazine 241 an Al-Qadim expansion item, but after closer reading it is designed for multiple worlds. Outside of you having it in the wiki I figured it was just someone else's made up idea for Aduria and I completely dismissed the idea from the Dragon Magazine.

After a closer look it is an interesting fit. The world pillar mountains can be where I have the dragon marked on that last map. From there it fits right in with the Yakmen sapping the blood strength from the regents in the north keeping them weak. Also the idea that the blood of Azrai corrupts the land fits in with this abomination becoming a race, and can be borrowed to create other beastmen zones. Also the Aquataine kingdom being untouched by this influence can fit as they are farthest removed from the mountains thereby they haven't been sapped.

With this said, does my dragon idea and Masetian Valley of the Kings conflict with this? Possibly, however both of these things can be in a dormant mode as dragons sleep and undead need not move both for centuries at a time. Until they awake or are awaken.

Does the dragon fit somewhere else? Like I suggested I am sure anywhere can fit for him, I just hadn't had any ideas for the mountain range yet, but he does still seem to fit as Aduria is vast.

Does the Masetian valley fit? I think so with the river and all like a Nile. Again I am using the various Mediterranean city states to represent this culture and they varied from Rome, Greek, Egyptian, Pheonecian, Mesopotamian Fertile Crescent influences all there. With the area I designate for the Masetians it allows room for variations all along the coast to where the current Gold Coast is on that old map. With them being seafaring traders I am sure that each city state varied with its own cultural base and interactions with the places from which they traded. Again, I just think because of Deismaar these cultures were not able to become as dominant as they were on earth, but as evident in the Khinasi expansion they were well on their way.

The Forgotten God is a pretty wicked character. Something along the lines of what I expected for Adurian power characters. 12th level priest, 12th level wizard, 18th fighter. I figure this is one of the more lower level major players characters for Aduria. Farther south I am sure has some other wicked abominations I am sure.

The Yuan-ti empire I am thinking is similar to the old south american empires with architecture and culture and human sacrifice. It was once a grand culture but fell to the Yuan-ti influence with the corruption of the shadow, prior to Azrai's whole shadow campaign. I borrow this idea from the Cerilian chronicles in dragon 241 where they have the rise and "fall" of human empires in Aduria -3700 to -515 on that timeline. Perhaps this is where the shadow was awoken?

On the east coast on the south where the djinni-persia empire is I figure that's some Basarji colonizations from Djapar like we have in Cerilia in Khinasi. The djinni are very much related to the winds along this coast or something like that. Either guardians against the shadow or agents of it as evil spirits. Hence my earlier map with the air, fire, water, earth elements plotting to play that idea out a little.

The middle zones on the east coast south of the Masetians and north of the Djinni-Persia and south of the "World Pillar Mountain" range (or glob) I just was thinking along the lines of the African gold coast. Not as an aboriginal race, rather colonial like expansion of some african tribes from another continent. The interior being a savannah where they get to deal with Lion beast men or something. Yeah it reeks of Monte Cooks Unearthed Arcana doesn't it?

Still working on the M'bolan tribes. Maybe they are african based or something else?

Back to the Yikarian Empire. One problem with this group is it only goes into their relation with the kingdoms of the north. So if you accept where I conceivably plot them out on the map, then they are rather limited to the old Andu tribes, anuirean colonies, and the Kingdom of Aquataine. Leaving the rest of their neighbors an unkown void. Then again that gives us the freedom to do what we want I suppose. It sure does make the Gorgon's crown look pretty pathetic doesn't it?

Regarding beastmen I had the idea that the marshlands could give us some Lizardmen or the like to deal with. Perhaps to be like the goblins of cerilia giving Aduria a more primordial origin than the Cerilian Fae origin. So looking around the entire map you can see other marsh lands that could be Lizardman strongholds. This gives me an idea that the Yuan-ti are not native to this land either and come from elsewhere. I am leaning toward the continent where the Magian is from, but not his exact lands or culture, more as an antagonist to his homeland's empire.

I think you are right about the orog thing. I hadn't really looked them up since back then I didn't have access to the internet and it wasn't as sophisticated as it is today where we can type in orog and get some results. I was always like, what the heck is an orog and I always pronounced it like oorog. Heh, perhaps the spawn minions of the "Bal"rog from the deeps? That play on words fits with the Tolkien bit of underground and dwarves.

I was thinking the beastmen could be a mix of both really. I like the native beastmen furry dudes with tribal paint, perhaps giving Azrai the notion of "enhancing" humans to this superior races. Then ending up with the hydrakin mixes of abominations and werebeasts and such. So Aduria could be vastly like the Harrowmarsh in many places with Awnsheghlien running rampant making it impossible to establish rule. Thereby being like the Vos expansion in that adventure becomes the way of establishing realms. Most assuredly in the Beastman zone.

Perhaps as a rough estimate in domain mechanics we could say for each province and province level and holding, and holding level you have to slay some rampant awnsheghlien in the lands where you are hoping to expand? Since they hold influence as perhaps chaotic, which opposes your rule and you have to remove them first. If they were a den mother you get to deal with a bunch of Grendels plaguing your realm for decades. Yeah Aduria seems pretty cool.

Looking at you mentioning the Vos involved with the beastmen, I am in a state of wonder. I know its your ideas, and they rock and thanks for sharing. I am wondering if that fits into the timeline with the Cerilian Chronicles. The flight from the shadow starts about -800 from the first point and the Vos are corrupted just before Deismaar. That doesn't exclude the possibility, but I get the sense the beastmen, for the most part, were around Aduria for much longer than thisssss. (sorry that Yuan-ti empire is getting to me.)

Regarding the spirit world, are you making a distinction between that and the shadow world/world of the fae? Just wondering where the notion of the spirit world came into play unless we are getting into the outer planes. I am sure a plot with Azrai could entail that kind of thing for sure. Just want to know if I am understanding you correctly.

02-21-2012, 09:39 AM
I forgot to address this as I wanted to make some mention. Certainly I am a long way off from making Aduria politically interesting, but I am working to fill in some of the foundations left for us by the developers. They way I figure it, exploring the frameworks gives me some inspirations to put in spots here and there. From there hopefully I'll be able to make progress.

One exception to this is the Aquatiane kingdom that I can easily integrate into an Anuirean campaign, just have to draw up the kingdom. The politics are already there. Hopefully with my link with Arthurian bits those ideas can spread over through the lands next to the Andus and into the Celts island. With a potential Guenevere queen, perhaps not destined to marry Arthur, but have political ties maybe sending her champion Lancelot over to help him out or some such thing. King Arthur of the Celts seeks to unify his island into one kingdom. The Wards possibly falling opening the island up is the reason for the imperialistic changes of the Celt island? Hence we have factions opposing it, similar to Tuarhieval's plights.

Venland could have some people left over, mostly oppressed by the mists and Vens and most warriors gone and dead. The Valkyr limited in his sphere of influence can only do so much. The north Rjurik lands I'd guess are part of the old Anuirean colonies especially between the two rivers, or, or, or that could be a prime spot for Aquataine giving it a much closer proximity to the Celts and farther from the old lands of Andu plagued by lizardmen and the yakmen empire. Hmmm. I kinda like that giving it more independence from Anuirean influence of their colonial exploits. A potential rival to Anuire and even the old Anuirean Empire.

I would like to get into plotting out the origins of each of the Andu tribes. Mostly the Mhora since they seem to have celtic blood or cultural influences. Perhaps just a celtic prince went off to marry some Andu tribe chief or something prior to the wards going up.

02-21-2012, 12:02 PM
Just doing a google search of bolan for the M'bolan tribes on the old map yields a tribe of people in Pakistan. The Sihag or Bolan, a gotra (clan) of Jat people and the Bolan Pass. The tribe seems to be a warrior tribe oriented with swords. The pass seems to be a pass that is used to link upper and lower Asia. Both can be used I suppose. With the pass linking directly to the area where I have the Brecht origins it falls in line with them being the first to flee from the shadow if they came through this pass.

Now is this tribe yet another group from a different continent?

I don't know just my initial ideas borrowing hopefully from the base culture the name comes from.

02-21-2012, 12:54 PM
My thought of the Yikarian Empire was that it is not much of an empire anymore. It would have to either be halfway down Aduria or down near the southern penisular. My idea was to have the Forgotten God as almost a legend, where none but his high priestess and the Whisperer may know whether he lives or not. I tried to arrange it so there is a bit of bickering between the sages, each having different objectives and desires. Yes, they are mega powerful compared to the awnsheghlien and regents of Cerilia but that is easy to change because I gave them no detailed description. I just tried to work with that was in the original article.

As I say, I think they are an ex-empire. The number of their dwarven slaves have dropped off and their resources are dwindling. The number of Yakmen is also not as large as it used to be. Why? Well that would be up to the DM. Perhaps it was because the Forgotten God is dying or dead. Perhaps the Whisperer and/or one of the sages is plotting. After all, the Whisperer is not native to Aebrynis. Perhaps a regent from the north has discovered their secret of the hallong and is working it against them. With the rumours of a new navy, perhaps some of the sages want to send an invasion force north. Tailor it however you like. Make the Yikarian realm as strong or weak as you like (or omit it). It just gives you a different race to work with that is rarely used elsewhere.


02-21-2012, 01:03 PM
Thanks for pointing it out I appreciate it. I had at first glance seen the yakmen as some sort of benevolent race, but that was before I actually read them. That makes them more cool. I guess I'll see what I do. One idea is that the empires of the shadow were once united in momentum to take the other tribes of Aduria, but are not now and are factionalized, yet have some of the same aims. Like you said I'll figure it out for myself.

02-21-2012, 11:39 PM
I was thinking the beastmen could be a mix of both really. I like the native beastmen furry dudes with tribal paint, perhaps giving Azrai the notion of "enhancing" humans to this superior races. Then ending up with the hydrakin mixes of abominations and werebeasts and such. So Aduria could be vastly like the Harrowmarsh in many places with Awnsheghlien running rampant making it impossible to establish rule. Thereby being like the Vos expansion in that adventure becomes the way of establishing realms. Most assuredly in the Beastman zone.

Perhaps as a rough estimate in domain mechanics we could say for each province and province level and holding, and holding level you have to slay some rampant awnsheghlien in the lands where you are hoping to expand? Since they hold influence as perhaps chaotic, which opposes your rule and you have to remove them first. If they were a den mother you get to deal with a bunch of Grendels plaguing your realm for decades. Yeah Aduria seems pretty cool.

Hmm, furry ape-men with warpaint, I like it but my practical nature has me wondering how long the clean-up takes :o That said the whole image of howling hordes brachiating through the jungle as they bundle after fleeing PCs gives me a happy smile inside.

I like the wild-lands approach, it fits how I see the Giantdowns, much of northern Vosgaar as well. I'd put in 'monster populations', since in my system the rule cost gets very high as a population expands that immediately cripples a ruler's ability to increase their lands unless 'something is done'. Ethnic cleansing it tough given medieval organisation, etc but I can see mass migrations being forced by continual warfare - pity the fools on the other side - perhaps driving the goblins into the deep woods is what really turned the sidhe against the human tribes...

Looking at you mentioning the Vos involved with the beastmen, I am in a state of wonder. I know its your ideas, and they rock and thanks for sharing. I am wondering if that fits into the timeline with the Cerilian Chronicles. The flight from the shadow starts about -800 from the first point and the Vos are corrupted just before Deismaar. That doesn't exclude the possibility, but I get the sense the beastmen, for the most part, were around Aduria for much longer than thisssss. (sorry that Yuan-ti empire is getting to me.)

Hmm, I've been posting tired recently, Azrai was clearly driving the humans out of Aduria centuries before Deismaar during the Flight from Shadow, I had thought that Azrai corrupted the Vos earlier than the timeline shows, but can't recall why or whether that part of the timeline is canon - I may have been sloppily thinking of all Azrai's human followers as Vos (clearly incorrect given the Gorgon and Serpent, both of whom led substantial human forces) but struggle to see a mere century as long enough to shift dreamy mystic type Vos into raging berserkers. I also had Aduria as an ancient human land in my mind as it clearly had 5 of the 6 tribes of man in it so saw beast-men as a more recent addition, but then who followed Azrai to fuel his strength if not others? My apologies if I de-railed any trains of thought.

That said I doubt that the fleeing tribes of man were particularly concerned about the genetic heritage of the beast-men, demons, etc that drove them from the land! Serpent-men always seem to be an old race to me, but that could be due to FR influence, or some Greyhawk stuff rattling around in my head. So they could be a mix of all sorts - old monster-races who flourished after the human tribes fled, or in the carnage after Deismaar, races that served Azrai and were rewarded with proliferation, and then races that were actively created during the Flight and then War of the Shadow.

Regarding the spirit world, are you making a distinction between that and the shadow world/world of the fae? Just wondering where the notion of the spirit world came into play unless we are getting into the outer planes. I am sure a plot with Azrai could entail that kind of thing for sure. Just want to know if I am understanding you correctly.

I use the term Spirit World for the Shadow World before it became corrupted by the Shadow. I use it also for the few areas of brightness left in the Shadow World, and in my campaign had the Shadow World fragmenting in two itself - light and dark, one a world of fey and wonder, the other demons, shadow and terror - but both realms mutable, marked out by realms dominated by a great power, and often both providing a distorted mirror of areas of Cerilia of the past, present or future... I think that the outer planes were described as pockets in the Shadow World by Rich Baker somewhere, personally I dispensed with them as I didn't want to have incarnate deities, I had areas of the Shadow/Spirit world formed by the various churches which were analogous but never fleshed the thoughts out.

02-22-2012, 01:12 PM
A few comments on the map as I've been giving some thought about it when I was writing about Vos.

The Andu. Their placement corresponds to my thoughts with a difference in giving them some more space to the south (central lake). That would place the Vos also somewhat to the south.
Same thing with the Rjurik an Brecht, but generally they would be where they are on the map.
And then Masetians, giving them some more room to the south, and perhaps cut of some of the northern parts.

If I'm doing this right and remember correctly, the Andu were the closest to the land bridge, so they benefited from it the most. The Masetians perhaps passed across the land bridge in smaller numbers, the majority using boats to reach the southern Khinasi. The Rjurik just sailed across the sea to the northern parts of Cerilia, since the Andu already occupied the southern parts. Then the Brecht had no choice but to test their luck by going all the way around (hopefully, it was summer).

As for the Vos, in the end, some were not corrupted by Azrai and wanted to flee. By using the land bridge, they've discovered the Andu already settled southern portion of Cerilia, and pretty much everybody else was already there so they had no choice but to move more eastward, initially staying round the present day Innishiere. Of course, one of the reasons they came to this part of Cerilia is because they were not welcome anywhere else, since the rest believed that they were also corrupted.

About beast-men I haven't given any particular thought, perhaps some kind od lizard-men in the Great Desert (the one in the central western part of the map). Someone called them Sskisarak or something like that?

What I would like to know is, where there some other people (tribes or races like Andu, Rjurik... like mentioned Celts)? Did the Cerilian races leave some of their brethren 'down under', were they turned into beast-men, did they survive in small groups, did they build some new kingdoms? Generally, I would like to know about Aduria today. Some have already mentioned bits of that in their replies. Also, the e-mails from Rich have shed some light about that, but in some narrow coastal areas of north.

02-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Ah, it's Ssarak, I see it now. And not lizard-men, but serpent.

02-23-2012, 11:35 PM
I was thinking of putting the Mhora on the lake by that forest area to signify they were always the shield for the Andu even on Cerilia. Likely a pass through the mountains someplace. The border would be between the mountains that touch the lake and the river in the west. I have some of the areas I talked about plotted in this map attached to this post.

You mention the Masetians going further south, this map has where I figure they were extending down south.

Aquataine is the isolated version I had in recent posts that seems to make sense, perhaps an answer to your other question. The left overs of the flight came here after the war and established a mixed kingdom of the tribes. It being isolated and a promising land for thriving.

The old Andu spot could be where the Anuireans attempt new colonies, likely run down forts for any remnants that are struggling to survive against the humanoids and the Yikarians, if you have them in the south mountains like I suggested. I am thinking the Andu spot is run down and could use Anuirean or other help.

The Masetian spot in the north is pretty much a wasteland aside from Mieres and some grasslands surrounding it. South of that desert below Mieres is where I expect some reclaiming of lands by the Gold Coast tribe of what I'd call High Africans that are armored with knights of their own sort. Above the red line is their colonies and below it is more established kingdoms dealing with beastman incursions from the interior.

I still don't envision the Vos spot yet, but I do like the Rjurik having the mountainous and some wooded coastal spots in the north. The Brecht having the basin (I plotted it) and most of the west coast spots mainly from the description of their flight from Havens of the Great bay.

I have the Yak spots plotted for possible places for that Yikarian Empire.

The purple median I think shows the mountains without a pass through them aside from the Bolan Pass separating the continent.

As for the Celts I figure they are untouched and are likely to become like Anuireans with a king uniting them. That is where I think the current campaign would be good to start them. Then the king becoming acquainted with Aquataine and their queen. Likely will expand out into the mainland which is divided with small lords here and there and some wild lands. That's what I think right now. Oh like Anuireans in that they begin the rise of their own empire on the mainland.

02-24-2012, 12:54 PM
Seems legit. :)

I was picturing the Brecht even below the Adurian "spine", on the west coast. Ships go by sea, so they (the Brecht, not the ships) have no need to walk across the mountains. The Gold coast seems great. I would love to see the Masetians re-introduced in Aduria as a human race that survived. Perhaps thrown a bit southward so they've lost ties with their fled northern brethren. Vos, I considered them to be one of the most southern races, although, why not a new race even more to the south, but they were perhaps completely subdued and turned to Shadow, or something.

And one more thing, I imagine the desert areas in the north of the continent as the aftermath of the War of the Shadow, the suffering of the land perhaps.

Anyway, I'll browse for Rich Baker's letters regarding the northern Aduria...

02-24-2012, 06:58 PM
I was wondering about the Brecht being below the spine (good name). The reason I hadn't gone with that was the placement of the M'bolan tribes on the map that shows them. Using the shape of the continent of the old map and trying to fit the new shape with the intended locals it appeared to me that the tribes are just below the mountain spine.

Aside from putting the Brechts just south of the spine I considered putting them also at that coastal spot south of the Great Desert with the mountains and woods too. Plenty of possibilities. However, how big do I want them to be? Maybe spread out a bit with a spot here and there?

02-26-2012, 11:06 PM
This map is plotted with regions I figure could be Brecht areas. Areas 1-6 being entire areas I'd like use with natural borders delineating possible regions. These regions being the Brechts would only occupy 1-3 of them as any more makes them pretty darn big.

1. I figure is the High Brecht strong point with the basin I mentioned before.

2. I thing could be the Low Brecht with possible mingling with the Celt tribes. Also a possible Vos spot.

3. The interior being a breadbasket for the Brechts. With the possibility of the Mhora tribe of Andus originating as eastern neighbors and maybe Vos on either or both the 2 area and east in the woods line south of the water. Otherwise this could be divided up into different areas. North and south of the water. Giving Vos the south including the 2 area and east woods line.

4. The other area I was thinking for Brechts but conflicted with the M'bolan plot on the early map. The M'bolan tribes fitting in with the whole pass concept being the only spot to travel through to get north in Aduria on land. Perhaps some domains of both Brecht and M'bolan within this area it being a mixture area.

5. The southern most point I figure the Brechts would ever be.

6. A possible other spot for the Brechts.

All these spots added together equals the western coast of Aduria that fits in with the Havens of the Great Bay description of their origins on this continent. Leaving room for the Celts and the Rjurik in the north mountains this should cover all the spots they are. Give or take a few areas, resize and reshape perhaps given other specific reasons as per preference it would look similar to this.

I would not include all these areas as Brecht lands. Possibly they were in each of these areas but as outposts for their trading and the like. If we take that approach, then it makes sense that the Brechts were the first to flee in accordance with the Chronicles of Cerilia article in Dragon. They'd likely have trade with the southern empires.

Of course up to this point everything is generalized concepts and subject to change.

Question. If the Brecht went so far south, why not up north? Perhaps they did and started some settling in the Aquataine basin that I plotted earlier. Or maybe its costly sailing around that northern horn of the continent as the currents and winds could be dangerous and only a flight from the shadow warranted the risk as the first scouting of Cerilia was hinted as overland.

What does the Brecht lands look like today? No idea yet. I figure much of the outposts would have been abandoned first causing the flight in the first place as the empires marched north. I figure the M'bolan tribes are there, possibly nomadic as well as urbanized, the nomads likely perpetuated the people as the cities were likely destroyed.

The upper Brecht lands might be resettled or overrun with beastmen. Could be the beginning of expansion by the Celts, but I would think that the campaign begins when the wards start to fall or when they do giving rise to the imperial aspirations of the tribes on the isle. Possibly area 2 is the first signs of Celt kingdoms, maybe some left over expanses from Rjuriks protected by the Valkyr. Old remnants in little pockets of the original tribes could also remain.

I read some about 4e concepts and the phrase points of light comes to mind here. However, many ruins of the old kingdoms remain. Therefore high adventure over politics I think may be what we could expect. Politics after an empire is made. Or the high politics of Anuire would be reduced to warlords making and breaking alliances on the keeps of their borderlands. Maybe an new rule for the boxed set would have been create province action. If it was to be released in 98. This continent I'd think could use the Kingmaker path from pathfinder. I don't think it has much in the way of established civilization. Even the Khinasi city states are like little beacons in a see of wilderness with small buffer provinces surrounding the cities.

The southern empires I figure were so decadent that they couldn't sustain themselves. Much of their wealth and power was used in the war of the shadow and those that survived Deismaar if they survived the aftermath limped back home or established themselves elsewhere only to watch their near empty domains collapse with in fighting as their god no longer united them.

Now the question I wonder is the Yuan-ti empire the only one from the south? It would seem there are at least two other empires mentioned. The Gold coast and the Djinni Persian. Are they simply colonizations of other tribes? Before or after the war of the shadow? If before, how were they affected by it? If after, then what was there before they came and what still may lurk?

With the M'bolan likely being Pakistan-like peoples. Does my idea of south american like empires mixed with the Yuan-ti fit? Or were the M'bolan marked simply the independent tribes and the others of the same race subject to the Yuan-ti? If the M'bolan are not connected to them, then are they another colonization from an Indian-Pakistan-or Inter-Asian tribe from another continent? If so, then my Aduria is becoming quite the melting pot of tribes from other lands.

02-29-2012, 07:48 AM
Those are some fine ideas, great thinking!

Certainly, the Brecht wouldn't be settling all of the mentioned areas, but yes, some outpost are possible. Consider the Portuguese and others and then places like Goa, Macao, etc. And surely they (the Brecht) have gone north, but it's a long way from their home. And possibly they had reached Cerilia, but probably mainly met with goblinoids and other monsters. And then, have they also wondered about their globe being actually a flat area, so they'd fall down if ventured too far. :)

There is a question about the Andu tribes, why haven't they went north, they were closer and on foot. There could be a lot of reasons. Perhaps never went in great numbers so they, too, found various monsters.

Now, we are talking about almost 1500 years in past, so likely some technology and society degradation from "today's" standards is largely possible. Also, almost 1500 years might have worked wonders for humans in Aduria. At least those that survived. The dark side declining in power, squabbling amongst each other. Well, they did kind of lost the war of the wars. Nonetheless, some have gained power, new enemies have risen, or even new gods?
Think about how maps look today. Anuirean colonies are quite vast.

And where do you draw a line of human presence in Aduria? Those southern lakes and mountain region of the spine might have produced a small states of isolated south american kind of people (Maztica setting, like in FR). So, you can easily mix them with Yuan-ti. You may think about the M'bolan being as Basarji-like nation, coming from the other side of the Djapar. Or perhaps, Basarji ariving from the east and also exploring Aduria, as well as Cerilia. Or as natives of Aduria. I'd put them after the War of the Shadow, as intercontinental sea travel was probably very difficult.
Romans had great empire, but never went to Americas or east Asia (at least not by boat). They may have tried...

There's a lot of ideas, and no need to plague the continent with everything (although there's certainly room for it). Keep it simple, so you can work out the mechanisms of shaping the today's Aduria.

03-09-2012, 05:59 AM
Not sure if I am repeating anything, just a few more ideas I've pondered.

Beastmen: The Yakmen of Yikaria. Beastman from He-man. The Beastmen from Greyhawk. The Beastmen from Warhammer. Images from the new Planet of the Apes film with Caesar the intelligence enhanced ape. Various other types of Lizard, serpent, crocodilian, dinosaurial, goat men, great cat men, bovine men, wooly men, and all sorts of others are possible ideas. I like the ape-like wolfman furry types. (wolfman not werewolf)

They could be an ancient species of humans going with the more ape-like form, but I like the He-man beastman mostly. It seems the Greyhawk beastmen are like this type.

I am going through and looking at different types of beastman images from google search and there is a lot of nice art out there. I usually get inspired by art when I don't have much else to go on. Complete characters of mine have come from 1 picture.

Jinn: I am watching the movie remake of Clash of the Titans and they have a race called the Djinn. They are like some magic-users that live a long time. I kinda like this for the Djinni-Persian empire. It would diversify things up more race-wise. They seem to be a different elemental form of near immortals like the elves in Cerilia, but maybe darker? Something to flesh out some more.

Images: they include the He-man Beastman, Djinn twice showing appearance and other size, and a neat lizardman(dinosaurialman).

03-09-2012, 06:24 AM
The Yuan-ti Emprie.

I stumbled upon this site the other day. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mayincatec

Some characteristics to borrow for building this empire if you want it to be themed after this culture.

Settings to borrow: Maztica from Forgotten Realms, Azcan from Hollow World (Mystara or D&D Known World), Tekmul (Empire of the Petal Throne.)

With the Yuan-ti: (funny I am at the point in the Clash of the Titans movie I am watching with Medusa)
I think the lizardmen would be serpent men as a variation of the dominant Yuan-ti, but I think they have variations that I posted earlier that apply.
So for an awnie idea we can have something like the Medusa although the whole gorgon element is already taken. This idea leads me to many ruins of the old empire that the monsters inhabit like Medusa. Another such ruin or even an active temple could borrow the giant serpent idea from conan. A serpent temple. The south american culture fits this serpent theme if you consider the anoconda it being a giant serpent that thrives there. Not that serpents don't thrive elsewhere, but just looking for elements to build on. I was also thinking that maybe even the seadrake would be better suited to have formed off the coast here where the rivers drain into the ocean. Then again maybe I am over doing the whole serpent thing. After all the Serpent in the isle over in Khinasi is there. Perhaps there was a Yuan-ti up north at deismaar that transformed that sailor but not before he was changed himself into the Seadrake and also combined with the Masetian that became the Serpent? Just trying to connect the dots.

03-09-2012, 06:41 AM
More on the Djinn from Clash of the Titans.


A little bit of their lore.

With this in mind them being ancient sorcerers and possibly tied to the standard D&D element of air I could borrow this and give each continent their own version of elemental Djinn type. From there I can go with my Magian homeland and explain some of its origins. I'd think they are more neutral in regards to magic morality as dark magic to them isn't corrupting so as to open the door for the Magian's appearance of evil. Although he is attributed a LE alignment. Therefore I am not sure he is actually one, but they influenced his civilization by teaching some mortals how to wield magic.

So why is there no Djinn in Cerilia? Firstly do we know that for certain and secondly, perhaps because the elves were already there. As it is specified on the Adurian map the Djinn are only on one part of the continent. It doesn't mean they don't travel, but perhaps they influence some areas culturally and others not.

Now do we want them to be like the wizard guardians of LotR or are they just a race of ancient beings, or perhaps former mortals that learned how to change their bodies, harness their spirit in this world and learn to master magic? That would explain alot with the questions I have about the Magian.

03-09-2012, 08:44 AM
Djinn are great. They remind me of the Lost. There shouldn't be many of them, it seems to me that their power, in vast numbers, would overwhelm everything and everyone. Perhaps think of them as a warm climate species?

My advice about other races is: use the other resources as a template, but be a bit original and creative, make them special in some way. The only thing I hate about games and creating them, is that people use no creativity. So, when I see real world names for cities, or villains/PC's named after someone, I get itches. Creators of Cerilia used real world names (for places) but at least they've changed them a bit. Of course, various military or noble titles would work just fine, those help, in a way.

03-09-2012, 10:01 AM
Yeah when I get down to that detail sure. Heh if I ever get there.

I did do some title work with Mhoried when I played them in a PBEM. With the Mhor being unique so I built on that. Tors being protectors of the province in Mhoried and local head of the Guardians. Mhaq being the son of the Mhor to play on the Mac in Scottish naming and my own last name actually. Is that the kind of thing you are thinking?

03-09-2012, 12:06 PM
Yes, something along that line.

Don't worry, you'll get there. Patience, time and work. ;)

03-09-2012, 09:27 PM
Djinn could be recent immigrants from the Shadow World if you wanted - if you want old cities and the like they could have brought those with them rather than fled through tiny portals. That could then explais their powerful magic and gives them otherworldly nature (and possibly some very bizarre coutnry side). As spirits only recently taken mortal form they could still be 'figuring out' things like reproduction, growing old, agriculture, travel, etc...

03-12-2012, 07:38 AM
Hm, like Sidhelien Shadow world counterparts in the "real" world?
Or some other magic users from the shadow world?

03-14-2012, 09:38 AM
The Djinn as shadow world refugees:

I've been thinking about this. It fits in parallel with the Halflings and that they established a foothold in Cerilia known as the Burrows, if you explain it in similar manner with the Djinn Empire. Other than that I have a bunch of ideas to ponder and questions to sort out.

Nature and Origin of the Djinn:

If we assume they are related to the D&D genie templates we can say they are elemental. What does this mean? I was thinking along the lines of grouping them into the magic races. What I have are Elves, Dragons, and Djinn. Not races that can use magic, rather magic inherent in their very nature. If we accept this grouping so far we can put it into a scale of different origins. The Elves are high life with lush forests and wild growth thriving. I'd suggest this making them the youngest of the magic races. The Dragons are pre-history likely a Cambrian-explosion kind of origin like the dinosaurs (lets not get into particulars of when the dinos are in relation to the Cambrian rather they came before and their nature directed evolution). Elves reflecting humans, dragons reflecting dinosaurs. The Djinn could be primordial and much earlier before any life other than extremeofiles where the elements rocked the universe and all they could be were spirits manipulating matter directing its course to aid in the coming races and their destinies.

As our understanding goes they can act as wizard-like or sorcerer if you prefer or both all in one as they can learn and teach the secrets of magic. I have a notion that they are like guardians similar to Gandalf. Their material bodies can be harmed, but they just need to either grow, reconstitute, or reshape a new one as I suggest them being immortal spirits. I get this from the scene in Clash of the Titans when one of them goes up against the Medusa and laughs at her when she tries her stone gaze attack on him and then he explodes his body like that breaking of a wizard staff effect from AD&D stunning her long enough for the hero to take her out. Hence they are never the actual starring role or hero, rather the support and setup for heroes. Thus they are elemental in any success against the shadow. They could be adventuring companions that help say vs. an adventure against the Gorgon or Rhuobhe.

Now as time has passed and the shadow does seem to be limitless in what it can corrupts, perhaps some Djinn have succumbed or maybe just their physical forms have depending on how deep you want to allow the shadow to corrupt. If their form is corrupted, then it can be a prison for them until they are released from it and then can rejoin the fight in a remade form later. I suggest this, because I like the idea of them being immortal and able to reform in this world.

What is the world of their origin? Not the mortal world for sure. Possibly the Faerie world now known as the shadow world. A potential world underneath even that composed of elements and elementals that constitute all physical things and links other worlds to what we call the Aebrynis cosmos.

Misc questions I have and ideas:

These ideas do not necessarily build upon the concepts I proposed above and can be considered independently.

1. Are the Djinn from the Faerie world?

2. I suggest they are strong in elemental magic allowing for more Genie types based on the elements.

3. Maybe they are Vorynn's chosen magical race. The original inheritors of his secrets.

4. They use their magic to transform their bodies and became immortal.

5. 3 Major old races: elves, dragons, djinn.
- Genies have spirits and are elemental and connect to other worlds.
- Elves don't have spirits and connect with the faerie world until the shadow fall and birth of the shadow world
- Dragons are pre-historic (wow how enlightening *sarcasm*)

6. Guardians concept:
- Genies (or Djinn no assumptions just yet) they can work towards any end or do we want them to be guardian spirits? They can quest and help adventurers (according to their prime elemental nature type?).

7. Are they just one race that uses all the elemental types and secrets of magic therein?

8. They are immortal spirits immune to what mortals suffer, thereby they can discard the physical form and make new ones?

9. Immune to polymorph, fear, and death attacks? See about the Medusa scene from Clash of the Titans.

10. Through magic of elements they can reconstruct their bodies to act as agents in the world of mortals.

11. Djinn Empire:
- If the Djinn are guardians, then does the Djinn Empire serve as a counter to the shadow in Aduria? Is it a post-Deismaar formation? The Djinn have been working here heavily since to thwart the Yuan-ti and the old occupation of what is now their empire by the shadow pre-Deismaar? What kind of government suites this empire best? Do the Djinn actually rule or are they like the Jedi Knights and have an advising counsel about keeping the shadow in balance? If they are just advisors then what is the race that is indigenous to the Djinn empire? Does a magocracy fit for a government type? Do they work against the Yuan-ti across the mountains? Do they suffer incursions from the beastmen in the north, from things in the undermountains or underdark?

12. They are like the elemental spirits of creation and have always been around. Only their material bodies can be destroyed or harmed. The material body has to grow and can take time. So physical destruction has some consequence, they just have to restart the body.

13. Djinn reincarnate? I don't think that fits the theme I have going.

14. Problem - destruction of the physical body ends their ability to influence the world. Until they make a new one. Can they change the forms of physical bodies they make?

15. If they are an actual race, then what is their population and reproduction rate if any at all? A dying race?

16. Djinn as spirits from this world or another or both and more. They learn through magic how to protect their spirit and transform the body through the elements and secrets of magic. This would allow for some questions of my version of the Magian to be answered as he may be privy to some such secrets. Now delving into bloodlines and the shadow reflects what we see in him. I am feeling a sense that if anything he was a fledgeling Djinn on the scale I propose them to be anyway. Is Djinn a next step or a path for a wizard? Perhaps a code of conduct like that of a paladin is required for Djinn qualification. Something like a Gnostic gnosis or Buddhist enlightenment. So high wisdom and intelligence is required. Access to 9th level spells. Worded that way since each edition may vary what level that would be. This is more of the path to become a Djinn rather than the elemental origin thing. A sort of passing of the torch. May the light shine forever.

17. Are they a race of elemental genie types? Or instead of demons can they call upon them for their power?

18. Chosen of Vorynn and guardians of magic.

19. The Vos were to inherit the gift of being the Chosen of Vorynn, but they lacked the patience for it.

20. If they have a culture what is it based on? As a race or just prestige wizard class.

21. Regarding Origins if they are elemental and primordial, then can we consider them as if they were merely sprites compared to the titans that existed back then and the only ones known to have survived? Hence regardless of how high in powerful magic we allow them to go there could always be 1 or 2 spheres of power above them that some of them witnessed.

Those are some brainstorm ideas I had come up with so far regarding the Djinn. Of course we can always change their name as I intend to like I have for the Celts. See below.

03-14-2012, 09:47 AM
Mists of the Celt isles:

In modern era the ward could have weakened spots. This allows for landfall of the southern tribes to Aduria. I think the northern wards are strong and seep over to the Venlands giving us that norse myth with things in the mist and the ven incursions mentioned in a previous post.

I keep going to a name for this tribe of people instead of calling them Celts. I like Kels. I am a Kel. The Isles of the Kel(s). I am probably getting it from somewhere that I can't recall.

Not sure I mentioned this before, likely I did. The mists over the islands go along the myth of the Mists of Avalon as well and magical islands being obscured or supposedly disappearing and the like. Before I go into detail I'll probably have to look over that 2E AD&D Celts campaign book, but like I said before I am trying to intuit as much as I can before I research into particulars like that since I'll likely just rip off a bunch of stuff since I am pretty lazy and I am already doing that anyway with movies and things I've read.

03-14-2012, 09:50 AM

If I recall correctly, then the Greek myths have multiple gorgons. Thereby Medusa can fit into the Yuan-ti empire somewhere. Maybe like my suggestion for the seadrake origins a Yuan-ti champion or even sister to a Medusa awnshegh was killed by Raesene in the immediate aftermath and chaos of the battle of Deismaar and he and Maalvar were both intermingled together with various monster template elements.

03-22-2012, 10:26 AM
It looks like some of the ideas I was playing around with will change in light of the more complete information I have now regarding Aduria. With the complete letters collection originally intended for print in the dragon magazine that I had personally only seen 1, I can plot a few things more differently, also allowing for some actual names. Names I had previously thought just made up by others working on this material, so I didn't want to steal their names as good as they were. I am glad I can now use Mor Atha. (IIRC) Which definitely ties the Mhors into the Andu and Celtic tribe IMO.

It seems I had it right for the Rjurik origins.

Brecht seems to be north in that basin within the mountains next to the Andu. Just following along with those letters descriptions upon first reading that it what I get. The southern parts I had previously on the maps in the straits by the celt island don't seem to fit according to this material. (upon second thought, the southern part was suggested to have tuetonic knights, perhaps on the interior with borders on the wild beast lands.) Obviously I need to study a bit more here.

Aquataine or Alatiane or w/e (going from memory here) is just across that one waste from Mieres and maybe goes into where I originally considered putting my valley of the dead into the mountains where that river runs.

Maesetians clearly are roman greek. I had previously only thought this was discussion on the boards. So I get to move my Egypto-Arabian-Persian bits to other parts.

The M'Bolan seem to be correct in my assessment. The Indo-Persian southern part of Aduria separated by the spine mountains of Aduria with the 1 pass of Bolan linking northern and southern Aduria and perhaps the only such pass giving us a key point as noted by an earlier depiction of the maps.

Yuan-ti empire I am throwing out the south american theme. Clearly the above tribes are what constitute this population.

The gold coast still hasn't gone any direction but my high african idea with their own version of knights. I don't think there was much mention of this region at all. Perhaps it was thrown out. But a high african kingdom could be a neat idea.

The old empires of the shadow are as it is said no longer empires and degenerate factions of what once was. Like Anuire losing its emperor, the empires of the shadow losing Azrai are in a state of disunity and waring factions. There is mention of the major champion of Azrai that lost one as well. I had come up with a fallen dragon that was also the greater champion of azrai. I still like this idea. The great wyrm (oldest dragon or one of) of Aduria way back then when Azrai began his conquest and still lives today as a more shadowed version of himself. A better version? Bigger stronger better? (stargate joke)

I am wondering if my concept of the Djinn should allow for them to be PCs or not, hence my previous post with scattered ideas. Not really my concept as if I created it.

A possible idea for the Magian place could be the dragon isles if you went with a someone combined idea of china (dragon theme) and japan (island and samurai theme). I still like a major sized china like area just beyond that.

The reason I bring this up is because my great wyrm of Aduria could be there from the dragon isles instead. Or maybe the good dragons are or w/e the keep the balance dragons. Or guardian dragons. I don't know so many paths a person could take.

I still like the Yikarian empire in that big mountain block just south of the old maesetians. Perhaps that river valley where I wanted the necropolis could be a greco-roman style valley of kings with great mausoleums of tribute to them with perhaps some elements of the shadow corruption giving it a sort of sith planet of their buried kings element. (tales of the jedi reference from dark horse comics)

03-22-2012, 11:17 PM
You could have the djinn vary on how much mortality they have taken on, or have half-breeds, either being possible as a player character, giving access to the races mystique, society, etc but retaining them at reasonable power levels.

03-23-2012, 08:48 AM
I don't know if Mor Atha and Mhors go together. IIRC, Mora Atha is a pirate area and I had never imagined the general alignment of Mhoried as chaotic or evil. Mor Atha is for me best suited for Brecht people, for instance, they've left the southern areas when fleeing shadow, some of them stayed in Aduria, and turned to piracy when the War of Shadow ended, when some of the smaller Azrai-adoring factions evolved and harassed them.

Masetians were Egyptian to me, but Greek is ok, too. Roman, yes and no. Mostly no.

Not sure if there should be one and only one pass through the Adurian spine. It makes Aduria divided into two areas and perhaps the shadow, and everything around it, would only be valid in northern hemisphere.

But, the spine could be used for avian creatures, introducing whole new level of play. Or not. :)
Those creatures could help with the transportation from one part to another. But generally, I wouldn't restrict the passing to one mountain pass. It breaks the already laid out concept by Rich Baker, if we choose to follow it.
Lucitia and Zaynani spread on both sides of the mountains. Ghanim, Nehalim and the Mountain states don't follow the separation rule strictly.

African zone, Ghanim definately. Combination of backward tribes and modern day Anuirean counterparts or just modern day Anuirean counterparts?
Nehalim sounds like persian zone. Mountain states - Aztec, Mayan? Zaynani - oriental? :D

03-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Definitely a lot more to play with now. I like the idea of some Brechts going over to the Mor Atha isles, albeit a slightly different view from yours. I think the Mor / Mhor word is definitely a signal flag of Celtic cultural basis. Intermingling with the Andu giving us the Mhor and the Isle off of Aduria of the Mor giving us the cultural base. As intermingling happened elsewhere, why not also on the isle? It would explain a few things. It would give us reason why they became more Knightly from the neolithic and Pict-like tribes they once were. The Brechts bringing these advances in warfare and civilization as they are also on the mainland Teutonic knights. Also with the northern Celts or Scots of the British Isles having their own sea empire could be explained by the refugees of Brechts fleeing from the shadow and assimilating into the local culture bringing seafaring skills. As far as them being evil and pirates, perhaps a type of Celtic Viking thing, cause I am sure the Rjuven also fled to the isles in some amounts so alot of tribes intermingling hence a very Scottish history could be borrowed. If that is what path we take, then we can consider the effect on this island people when they became a sea power.

So we could start it out with a division of tribes with different strengths and benefits to bring to the table once they are united. Or do we want to start with a united version and focus on mainland expansion?

With the various tribes and their differences a particular tribe could act as savage pirates. I don't get the sense that they are all like that as I get a sense of the Arthur themes from the words Celt Empire and them being a more savage lot by the word Unconquered. I wouldn't equate savage with evil though. The elves are relatively savage to our personal perspectives, but not evil. The hunt of the elves could be seen as evil to us, but to them its just their way of dealing with a problem that plagues their lands like a virus. A virus can be considered evil as well by the effects its can cause to its victim, but that is just its function.

As far as the chaotic dimension. Mhoried is concretely chaotic. Is that an oxymoron? I like to think an underlying King gene or some such thing in their blood as they are in the line of the blood of Kings of the Arthur line. With the real world myth of Arthur linking to various regions from Scotland, England, France, among others I don't think its too far a reach for a hint at a similar theme with the Mor Atha and Andu who are linked by the Mhors. If that's simply not appealing, that is quite alright no harm is disregarding it. But we must realize the Mhors are likely the most savage of all the Anuireans and are chaotic in their relative lifestyle compared to the rest of the empire. They appear to be a breed apart. The very title of Mhor reflects that. Even the timeline implies the Roeles through diplomacy garnered the favor and fealty of the Mhora, not the more common impression that they were granted the lands Mhoried by the emperor. Thereby a testament to the Roeles by taming this lot without war. In similar line the Game of Thrones house of Starks. They seem to reflect the attributes of the Mhors. However I'd up the Mhors a notch or two since their threat is much more frequent being only a generational cycle of frequency rather than 1000s of years wait for the white walkers. To emphasize their prowess as a people the Ruins of Empire states the Mhor could march to the IC itself. That to me implies something the domain rules don't reflect. I would definitely add some house rules to be in line with the suggested Mhorean levy being an irregular. Also an eager and hardy population of volunteers ready to defend their land. Its not so much as the Mhor is a mighty lord or his bloodline is powerful, rather the Mhor and his people are more closely related than other lords who tend to live in a metaphorical Ivory Tower of separation from their people. What gives us the impression is a much more lawful lifestyle than that of a woodsman from Mhoried. This is clearly a long lost impression of this lord as I even had a DM once disregard that entirely.

Its always interesting to explore new impressions of things. I think it adds to creativity even if all we end up doing is disagreeing.