[ADnD2e] Investiture Realm Spell

[Delazar]

If a Regent wants to Invest a province that he has conquered, does he have to be physically present in that region (together with the Priest/Paladin performing the Investiture)?

Also, the priest that performs the investiture, does he need a Temple(1) in the province he wants to invest?

[Retillin]

If I recall correctly then yes. It has to be cast in the realm you are investing and there is supposed to be a Temple 1 of the faith of the priest casting the spell.

That being said, I'd allow for there to not be a Temple 1 in the Giantdowns (I think that is where you were running it). If the priest could gather a large enough following in the location the spell (get a 100/1000 followers) is to be cast I'd let it slide without a physical temple being there.

[Delazar]

yes, my main issue is the Giantdowns... :)

but in general, if you need to have a Temple(1) in a province you want to invest, how do you ever Invest any Province(0)?

[Magian]

Investiture is covered in the Priestcraft book pgs 74-80ish. Requirments is that the ceremony take place in the province if a province. In or near the holding if a holding. Only 1 needs to be at the location either the caster or the soon to be invested. The temple 1 holding requirement is only to cast the spell along with 1GB. I don't think the temple needs to be in the province in question.

I hope that helps. If you don't have the book of priestcraft I highly recommend it. The most important supplement to Birthright imo and I don't like priests.

[Delazar]

I do have the BoP... I'll have to check out those pages, but I'm away from my books right now (also re-learning the game after 12 years of 3.5 + 4E...)

You seem to be making a distinction between "the ceremony" and "casting the spell". Are they not one and the same?

Or, the ceremony is performed by the "soon-to-be-invested" in the province to be invested, and the spell is cast in a nearby province by the priest?

[Magian]

I myself have been out of the game for a number of years but have always been Birthright-centric in my gaming using it to compare to other games.

I think as far as the ceremony goes its one and the same as far as game mechanics, but for semantics it can be separated. Even in the realm spell description it uses that word. I was just using it cause it was the word used in the BoP. If there is a significant distinction I'm sure its in that book.

[AndrewTall]

BoP page 74 says: "Generally, a transfer of domain power or assets means that the ceremony must be held in the province or near the holding to be affected"

That suggests that that it is not mandatory to be in the actual province affected, just conventional - which is helpful given that some people might want to transfer a single L0 holding, or multiple provinces at once. I'd suggest however that investing a large province without bothering to attend is likely to lower morale, encourage a great captain, etc as the locals may feel slighted or uncared for.

As the action could take a full month with all the ceremonies, I'd see no problem with casting the spell in one province and then travelling to the target province to 'finish the ritual/plant the flag/etc'.

I generally consider that actions are overseen by regents but carried out by masses of minions, so the regent wouldn't necessarily need to be present to carry out any action - but they would need to be close enough to communicate with minions so a regent on a long sea voyage isn't going to get much done back home without appointing a lieutenant as regent while they are away.

[Delazar]

It makes sense. My main issue wasn't that the regent + the priest don't want or can't be in the province to be invested.

The main issue was, it would be impossible to have a Temple(1) in a Province(0)... :)

[Magian]

Yeah that is a logical loophole when starting from scratch.

When starting from scratch you can use feats of accomplishment to justify a claim on a province. That is to say an adventure action, its the catch 22 of the domain system in many respects.

[darrenm]

OK here is the book answer I would use. on Page 52 of the Birthright Rulebook. a 0-level province with no ruler already in place should be covered under the sub-rule of Create Holding called Create Province. It would take 1 gold bar (2000gp) and has a base chance of 10+. Further it states that if you do not rule an adjacent province already, then you will have to pay triple normal cost for the Create Province action. Now we are taking up 3 gold bars or 6000 gold pieces. 0 regency points are spent to create a 0 level province. Yes the Aforementioned province already exists on the Giantdowns map but it has no single regent ruling it. Just a bunch of Human and Humanoid tribes. If the province in question is Skansoren there should be nothing to modify your roll. However Bjorlangen has a law holding of the White Witch level 0 in it. That can effect the outcome as she could spend regency points to stop your move. It looks like everything else has law holdings of either Ghuralli or The Watch. Kjarholle tribe I guess would count as a Lawless holding, ha ha.

[arpig2]

The answer is quite clearly spelled out on page 74 od the BoP, just a little further down in the same paragraph referenced by AndrewTall. It says: "For example, if Prince Richard agrees to cede a province to his neighbor, the ceremony must be conducted in the province Prince Richard has chosen to give up. At the DM's option, the court of either regent may be an acceptable alternate site."

Therefore, the ceremony doesn't have to be in the province in question. In the next paragraph it states that the priest must be present at the ceremony to cast the spell, so the Temple[1] doesn't have to be in the affected province either.