Illyndra

[billyboy]

Is there any info in and around the net about Michael's eldest sister Illyndra?

[Vicente]

Loooool :p

[billyboy]

shhh vincete I need dirt and plenty of it :D

[billyboy]

Come on peoples I need dirt....... someone is trying to make an Emperor in my game and its not me.................:confused:

[Vicente]

Now, seriously: even if the character is canon (I have no clue, first time I hear of her), the GMs of the game may have probably changed her backstory (and more given that one GM moderates this forum :p).

Maybe she is named in one of the novels, I don't remember her from the sourcebooks (although I haven't read several of the domain sourcebooks).

[Retillin]

He had an older sister in the novel "The Iron Throne". She got married to Bourine, slept with the Gorgon and I think she died while giving birth to the Gorgon's child. But that's just off the top of my head.

[sperigny101]

If what Retillin says is accurate, due to the rules concerning the passing of blood score, derivation, bloodline strengths etc. to the children of scions, then the offspring of Raesene and Illyndra would carry the Raesene bloodline, not the Roele bloodline. Also, if I was a landed regent, someone being a descendant of the Gorgon would outweight the fact that the person could also be the descendant of a Roele.

Just trying to give you a hand, here :-)

[billyboy]

Well my character already suspects that the blood of Roele could in a since be the same if not similar to the blood of Raesene.

[AndrewTall]

From recollection the Iron Throne suggested that Michael Roele had several sisters - several of whom could have carried the Roele bloodline rather than that of their hubby. also I'd expect masses of cousins, etc to carry the Roele line - emperors and their close family would have been eagerly sought after for marriage by nobility across Cerilia in addition to less formal couplings.

The traitorous elder sister who seduced the Gorgon and then put the magic whammy on empress Faelina to impregnate Faleina with the gorgon's child was called Laera - and she was killed by the chamberlains wife. The Gorgon-child was killed by Michael, after which he went on his mission to burn Markazor/the crown to ashes and kill the Gorgon - the first part worked out ok, the second not so well.

So you guys are on your own I think.

[Retillin]

Thank you Andrew, I knew there was something I was missing.

[Arjan]

didnt rich baker wrote something in his "lost files" about a roele BL.
i think he/it mentioned that with the aduria expansion they wanted to introduce a char who has the roele BL . opening up the possibility to become an emperor again

[Thelandrin]

Having not read any of the BR novels, I pulled that name out of my arse, so I can happily guarantee that she did not sleep with the Gorgon, divine or otherwise :D

[Gustav]

Well, my guess is the chamberlain :eek:

[Rowan]

I think there were some inherent mechanical problems in the inheritance rules. Surely, as has been previously stated, many cousins of the Imperial line would exist; typically all the major lords would eventually be married into the royal family. Thus Dukes were all effectively members of the royal family after several generations, and had legitimate places in the lines of succession.

Yet if the stronger bloodline's derivation and strength are inherited, that would leave little room for others. I don't think that should be a hard and fast rule. I think either could win out, and/or the patrilineal/matrilineal descent could have an effect.

Primarily, I think the main bloodlines are kept strong by the regent passing on the bloodline to an heir. That's the surest way to keep those lines strong.

[Thelandrin]

As I recall, in the case of mixed marriages, the derivation and bloodmark come from the stronger line, the strength comes from the weaker line (normally one less) and the score is around the average of the two.

[Birthright-L]

At 01:37 AM 7/7/2010, Thelandrin wrote:

>As I recall, in the case of mixed marriages, the derivation and
>bloodmark come from the stronger line, the strength comes from the
>weaker line (normally one less) and the score is around the average of the two.

Does one necessarily get bloodmark automatically from the stronger
line? I don`t recall that one.... Sounds like it might be a sort of
footnote or something that is implied rather than specifically stated.

I`ve always thought bloodline strength is "averaged" and then
"rounded down" if you will. So if two scions mix who have two steps
of bloodline strength between them then their offspring will get the
middle score. If there is just one (or three) step(s) between them
then it would go to the lower possible strength.

Gary

[Rowan]

The problem with any certain inheritance of derivation or bloodmark is that, given the intermarriage of the Roeles and even of the other duchies, most everyone would have the Anduiras bloodline and a Roele, Avan, or Boeruine bloodmark.

So I recommend that the derivation and bloodmark be either randomly inherited, or have something to do with line of succession inheritance to the realm (thus making sure that Diemed always keeps Brenna's bloodline, Alamie Basaia's, etc), or with the paternal/maternal line. As inheritance is complicated, I would have each of those influence the inheritance of bloodline characteristics (derivation, bloodmark, strength, numerical value, and powers).

[AndrewTall]

I always figured that, like any other inheritable characteristic, there was quite a lot of variation even within a family from a bloodline perspective - the canon rule was just a book-keeping shortcut.

The anduiras = domination effect caused by the stronger local bloodlines only works if you only ever go back one generation - if you think of the other potential lines as a mass they would eventually dominate even the roele line as it grew thinner and thinner by marriage further from the core family line.

Plus of course you have bloodline corruption by the wicked leading to quite a number of Azrai bloodlines, marriage in by the great houses across Cerilia bringing in the strong bloodlines of the Brecht, Rjurik and Khinasi so total dominance by the Anduiras bloodlines is probably unlikely even in Anuire.

I toyed briefly with the idea that how well the bloodline fitted the personality of the person would have an effect on inheritance - so someone proud but fair would probably take after their anduiras ancestors and someone quiet and introspective their vorynn ancestors - although I never really followed the thought through, and also figured that inheritance should work the other way around with bloodlines influencing personality to a degree - particularly in the case of strong bloodlines.

[Rowan]

I always figured that, like any other inheritable characteristic, there was quite a lot of variation even within a family from a bloodline perspective - the canon rule was just a book-keeping shortcut.

The anduiras = domination effect caused by the stronger local bloodlines only works if you only ever go back one generation - if you think of the other potential lines as a mass they would eventually dominate even the roele line as it grew thinner and thinner by marriage further from the core family line.

Plus of course you have bloodline corruption by the wicked leading to quite a number of Azrai bloodlines, marriage in by the great houses across Cerilia bringing in the strong bloodlines of the Brecht, Rjurik and Khinasi so total dominance by the Anduiras bloodlines is probably unlikely even in Anuire.

Note sure where you're getting that.
If a sister of a Roele emperor, or of Avanil or Boeruine for that matter, marries the heir of Diemed, the Brenna bloodline is gone. Unless the heir produced by that union marries someone with a Brenna bloodline greater than their own (much less likely than marrying within Anuire, where there are no Brenna bloodlines that strong), that derivation is gone. In a few short generations, even the cadet branches will have been crowded out.

The only way to overcome this (aside from a far less certain derivation inheritance) is to have the ruling regents willingly transfer their bloodlines to their heirs before those heirs have children of their own. Since that's unlikely, if a regent passes their bloodline at the end of their life (with remarkable uniformity through the ages), then the current ruler could have the appropriate derivation, but few among his family would share it.

[AndrewTall]

Note sure where you're getting that.
If a sister of a Roele emperor, or of Avanil or Boeruine for that matter, marries the heir of Diemed, the Brenna bloodline is gone. Unless the heir produced by that union marries someone with a Brenna bloodline greater than their own (much less likely than marrying within Anuire, where there are no Brenna bloodlines that strong), that derivation is gone. In a few short generations, even the cadet branches will have been crowded out.

The only way to overcome this (aside from a far less certain derivation inheritance) is to have the ruling regents willingly transfer their bloodlines to their heirs before those heirs have children of their own. Since that's unlikely, if a regent passes their bloodline at the end of their life (with remarkable uniformity through the ages), then the current ruler could have the appropriate derivation, but few among his family would share it.

That depends whether you consider the bloodline gone or simply not dominant - consider genetics and dominant/recessive genes as an anology. I'd see scions as expressing one bloodline, possibly with a few variations within the family (so not every Avan has courage, or perhaps they display healing once every few generations), but also that they have faint traces of other bloodlines in recessive form - the taint of Azrai lurks in all hearts waiting to pounce through a foul heart...

So a scion might inherit a 45% line of X, 35% line of Y, 15% z and 5% misc, with the X line dominant and the only 'visible' bloodline - but if they then marry a 5% X, 85% Y, 10% Z then the child might well be bloodline Y even though 'X' is supposedly the dominant bloodline.

In game terms I'm looking for a way to keep a spread of bloodlines, allow for the odd freak (scion 'A' was disowned by her father for expressing the bloodline of Brenna despite an Anduiras mother and vorynn father - clearly the father has been made a cuckold!) and explain where bloodlines of Azrai 'come from' for some twisted souls.

On the inheritance issue, you could have a leapfrog approach with bloodlines traditionally passed to grandchildren - so a grandparent bequeaths their line to the eldest child of their eldest child for example, quite possibly dying before the child expresses their own bloodline as a teen. That sort of approach might cause various pride/practicality issues although it adds a slight twist to usurping one's parent in that the theft is then both from ancestor and descendant in social terms.

I dislike the idea of much inheritance pre-death as I see losing a bloodline as having fairly catastrophic personal consequences, but another means is to see that elderly scions pass on bloodlines whilst alive - an issue for some scions and community leaders but possibly less of an issue if a cultural norm or if a partial transfer was possible.