Realm Armies

[JakobLiar]

Well, I'm about ready to run my game. I'm testing it out by myself... except I have one problem: I don't see on the Wiki or in the book anything about armies in the following realms:

Aerenwe
Medoere
Spiderfell
Rhuoube
Taeghas
Alamie
Elinie
Cariele
Five Peaks
Markazor
Mur-Kilad
Thurazor
Chimaeron
Coeranys
Osoerde
Sielwode

These are the realms which I am trying to figure out how much of an army they should have. I can only guess on Osoerde and Elinie since I am playing a PBeM playing them (two different PBeMs).

[Sorontar]

Spiderfell would have mainly goblin infantry and archers, some goblin cavalry on spiders, some gnolls, and lots of nasty critters for home defense. But unfortunately I can't give you exact numbers, but they have to be enough that it is -really- hard to invade. We have talked about this before.

To quote http://www.birthright.net/forums/spiderfell-invasion-was-awnsheghlein-realms-t551.html :

"BloodEnemies" lists stats for the Spider`s Gnoll Raiders, Goblin
Spider-Riders, Giant Spiders of Spiderfell along with stating that the
Spider`s followers include "hundreds of gnolls and goblins, and thousands
of normal and giant spiders!-who will all aid their ruler." (p.98).

Just bear in mind that this was a posting from 2002.

[vota dc]

The link doesn't work.

However the number of starting armies on turn 1 of the pc game seems quite realistic.What is strange is 0 troops for Five Peaks,Mur Kilad and Markazor.

[Rey]

The link doesn't work.
Remove the colon from the end of the link.

[AndrewTall]

I'd figure that as a quick guesstimate of goblinoid armies, you could take the total income, knock off a 2-4 Gb for a court, another 2-4 GB for actions and random stuff, the residue would be the maintenance cost of the army.

[JakobLiar]

So, is there a certain system that any of you DMs have used to guess or select for starting armies?

[Caelcormac]

I usually decide that anywhere from 50-75% of a kingdoms income goes toward supporting its military.

So I just figure out the average income that a nation generates; then go from there.

I usually have 20% of Military Budget go to elite units (Knights, Elite Infantry, Artillery units) used almost always for mobile fighting forces, 50% to regular units (infantry, pikemen, archers) to use in garrison duties as well as mobile fighting forces, 20% on irregular forces (scouts, irregulars and mercenaries sometimes) that are used for patrolling, raiding and as a supplement to any reactionary forces. The last 10% is used either in construction efforts or to build a war chest if it isn't needed to replace fallen numbers from combat. Once a kingdoms war-chest has enough money in it to support its military for a year, I usually had the kingdom go to war.

In the few games I've run/played we used miniatures for our battles; or once we used the old combat system that was listed in the Companion Rules boxed set (I think it was that...either the Green or Blue boxed set for Basic Dungeons and Dragons). I like the quick resolution that war cards give; but sometimes it doesn't give enough ability to reflect things like flanking or terrain, arrow barrages and artillery. If you can arrange miniatures and a good battle system (I still prefer the Battlesystem Rules because it supports fantasy combat very well...especially DnD), then the battles are much better.

Back on topic...if you are like me, sometimes you want to just make sure the players have a good time; then don't worry about exactly what the enemy has for a military...make it up on the spot. The danger to this is that suddenly a player does something totally unlooked for and your badguy gets crushed without hope of you being able to recover without looking heavy handed and upsetting the player.

[JakobLiar]

Oh, I meant the gems as far as for the actual continent map.

Still, I thank you much for your information about how to figure out the armies. It will make it easier for me to do my test run knowing that.

[Caelcormac]

Oh, I meant the gems as far as for the actual continent map.

Still, I thank you much for your information about how to figure out the armies. It will make it easier for me to do my test run knowing that.

Do you mean the countries you have listed at the beginning here?

I'm sorry, I get confused extremely too easily. :confused:

[Caelcormac]

Well, by my quick estimate, Thurazor (as an example) would have about 10GB to spend per turn on its military by moderate provincial taxes only. Considering strongarming the guilds and temple contributions, I'd say about 15 GB total.

With my earlier figures, that would give them:

1 Unit of Goblin Guards (1 GB), estimated upkeep?
2 Units of Goblin Cavalry (4 GB)
3 Units of Goblin Infantry (5 GB)
3 Units of Goblin Archers (3 GB)
2 Units of Goblin Scouts (2 GB) treat as normal scouts (made up unit I guess)
2 Units of Gnoll Marauder Mercenaries (2 GB)

That gives Thurazor 13 Units of Goblins by the standard rules.

However, I offset this in wartime by making any unit of Levies that Thurazor raises equal to a unit of either Goblin Infantry or Goblin Archers because of the warlike nature of goblins...but that of course is only my own personal take.

[AndrewTall]

Upkeep is generally half muster cost - or a 1/4 is garrisoned. My favorite goblin unit was goblin rabble which had 1/4 GB maintenance (they were, admittedly, cannon fodder with terrible morale and discipline by any standard).

BRCS.
Infantry: 1 GB muster, 0.5 GB maint, .25 GB garrison
Archers:1 GB muster, 0.5 GB maint, .25 GB garrison
Guard: 3 GB muster, 1.5 GB maint, .75 GB garrison
Wolf-riders: 4 GB, 2 GB active maint, 1 GB garrison

Thurazor has 19 province levels and say 6 (a third, alamian sort of level) law levels giving the king so 21 GB regular income, the guilders probably chuck in the odd GB to keep the goblins sweet, while the temples probably cast the odd beneficial realm spell, agitate, or send some units to support the king.

Assume a L3 court, 4-5 GB for actions/spending, and you get military maintenance of, say, 11 GB per turn.

1 wolf-rider, the king's own - 1 GB
2 guards - 1.5 GB
12 archers - 3 GB
12 Infantry - 3 GB
4 scouts - say 2 GB

Of course when Thurazor goes to war that army gets twice as expensive, so the goblins better either have built up a treasury, or start pillaging quickly. That said, given that the king probably leads any army, the court cost will drop to 1, and actions will also be reduced to 1-2 GB, so if need be the goblins should be able to stay active for a while even on a low treasury.

[JakobLiar]

Thanks. And yeah, I'm trying to figure out the armies for each lands. So far, I've figured out a possible collection for each. Didn't know about the 1/4 maintenance cost for being garrisoned (or didn't recall reading it, but I've been busy rewriting every realm for my own ease and the ease of the players). Spent about 5-6 months getting it done but I'm done now. Sure, I have to figure out the trade routes, but other than that, I should be done.

I'm really excited about engraving the gems to work on the actual continent map. I think I had a wonderful idea there. Already have two definite players when I get done and one of them is dead-set in playing Ilien.

[Rowan]

I consider the Spiderfell to be 3 provinces. Figuring that Tal Qazar has to still be quite intelligent to survive with clans of goblins around him in the heart of the empire for hundreds of years, I consider those provinces to all be level 4 (higher if I really want to portray him as a threat). Then I consider that, like the Gorgon, he's a megalomaniac, and give him Temples. This gives him some realm spells, as well.

Now throw in the Tribal Units rule from BRCS 3.x. That allows a few more units every season (alternately, you could go entirely with this variant and 0-level provinces). To make things meaner, one could consider the "Ancient Forests" of the Spiderfell to be level 9, adding some more tribal unit levels. These units could be Gnolls and Trolls and similar, not being as well-organized as Tal-Qazar's brainwashed, inbred goblins.

Season this volatile mixture with a liberal dose of Spider units that function as Summoned monster units (one Summon Monster spell at highest level for each province).

Now you can field a frightening army. With or without the grand army, though, the Spiderfell should be impenetrable. To all invaders, I'd consider the three provinces to be Warded or at least Trackless, and Fortified at least to level 4 (requiring a year to get through). The Spiderfell does not need to be limited by normal rules. It's a special place. So I'd even add Morale checks for every invading unit every war move. It's a frickin' scary place, and poisonous spiders are biting people all the time. I figure that no army has ever managed to stay in there long enough to conquer it due to these factors. Sure, they could try to cut down trees under constant attack, but that takes a darned long time. Burning is out of the question--I just make the Spiderfell immune.

So that's how I make the Spiderfell dangerous. :)

[Rey]

Where do the goblins live in Spiderfell, above or under the ground?
Underground seems to be the better solution, although they'd have to dig deep because of the roots and pits.
Have the goblins of Spiderfell suppressed the urge to cut the forest, for whatever purposes?