Torova Temylatin

[Haeda]

Has anyone done any work on this island? Seems a shame to leave it undefined. I'm interested in doing some work on it, but I am just getting back into this setting after an 11 year absence. Any advice, or merely a point in the right direction would be fantastic.

[Rey]

Do you have any ideas? It's far north and really not inhabitable, except if you're trying to send adventurers/settlers to freeze to death. :)
To use it, there has to be something very extraordinary. The least of the problems is to hack it up into provinces, but from what I've read, for now there are only monsters there and the center of the island is practically unreachable.

[Gheal]

IIRC this island has hidden monastery, where descendants of Basaia still keep their sielsheigh - biggest in the world. I don't recall, was this Cities of the Sun, Book of Priestcraft or some other source. TotHW said nothing about this - only mentions of unusually warm climate and utter lack of population.
I can also expect non-standard warding or two, thrown over this island to divert interest of awnies and other undesirables elsewhere. :D

[Rey]

Unusually warm climate?
I must have misread something...
Anyway, hardly anyone journeys there primarily because of Leviathan and frozen sea.

[Rey]

Tribes of the Heartless Wastes, page 32 of Player's Primer: Most maps of northern Cerilia include the island of Torova Temylatin, but few go into any detail. Sea captains put in there for fresh water and supplies or sail around the northern harbors to avoid the treacherous Leviathan's Reach in winter, but none ever stay there. Its eastern and western tips seem to be covered with ice during the entire year, but a large forest and high mountains can be seen along the interior. A few particularly adventurous explorers have sailed up the central river of the island, but none have penetrated inland to explore the island itself. If any inhabitants live on the island, they have not been seen or reported.

[Rey]

The Book Of Magecraft, page 80: Within one of the highest mountain ranges of northern Torova Temylatin, Aram and his followers built Basaia's seat, an impregnable monastery carved out of mountain peak. Its central chamber holds the Sielehr. Basaia's seat it reachable only by a single pass that remains snowbound and impassable for all but two weeks out of every year. The bitter, powerful winds surrounding the peak make it too treacherous to approach by any flying creatures less hardy than dragons. Fortunately for those who guard the Sielehr, the artifact itself helps keep the monastery warm.

At its most populated, the monastery held 78 people. It now holds only four scions: Aram ibn Malik, Fatima bin Aram (Aram's eldest daughter), Tuarim ibn Aram (Fatima's fourth son), and Alvaro el-Surak (the last of the Holy Thirty). All of these scions have the long life blood ability at great power, Aram and Alvaro both appear to be men in their forties, while Fatima and Tuarim seem to be in their late and early twenties. The youngest of the four guardians is nearly 1500 years old.

---

Now, this must be one of those lovely believable fairy tales from Cerilian history. These are even cheesier than the Gorgon itself. He at least gets to go out on a strawl and has something to eat. These would have died of boredom alone a couple of dozen times by now. :D
Hope the Sielehr has some cooking skills.

[AndrewTall]

I think at some point I had some vague thoughts of a traditional elven and goblin land for the Island, a place untouched by humanity where the wild folk lived - and that was the way they liked it.

Any habitable land is likely to have some human population, the cold is a big problem, and I doubt you can grow much, but certainly nomadic types and fisherfolk should be possible to allow low level provinces. Of course settling (leading nona vos to a new safe land?) wouldn't be easy.

The Sielehr myth always struck me as funny, why hide away in the first place? Travel to Ariya and take a place of pride and power where Avani's faithful can bask in her predecessor's glory (and you don't need to worry about dying of boredom or inbreeding). Of course the inhabitants of Djapar might make some claim on the stone even if they refused to accept its true nature, while the temples would obviously also make a claim so keeping the stone would be tough if you didn't want to give it to the crown/temple to win favour.

[Rey]

Guess there was a lot of prying hands on that one when they desperately took it so far away. Really should have been some smaller chunk. And the guy actually found it in a desert. From Deismaar!

I like the idea of a lone elven realm. Doesn't the magic of elvish realms protect the land from the elements?

[Sorontar]

To me this sounds very like the Indiana Jones approach to the Holy Grail. You know, major religious artifact hidden in the depths of an now unused temple, guarded by a very small group of people who seem to have lived for ever.

The BR wiki has an entry of the Sielehr (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Sielehr#The_Sielehr).

[Gheal]

Unusually warm climate?
I must have misread something...

My fault. I mean unusually warm climate for such latitude. Only tips of the island covered by ice for entire year, not forest and mountains. And conifer forest can provide you with food if you have relatively small population to feed. Many russian peasants in 15-16 c. run from their feudal masters to the north (to the coast of White Sea) and even develop there sound agriculture.
I wonder why many others refugees do not settle on this island. But with some magic at work all things are possible.

And on the tale of the Sielehr. Any really good paladin must cry seeing how faithful of one god split their faith in several churches, one competing with the others. All kinds of cheats, lies and outright thievery stems from this in post-Deismaar time. I can understand this situation with Haelyn - he's god of conquerors and feudal lords, conquest and divine (haelynian, ofc :)) right to rule are part of his dogma. But Avani is Lady of reason, not grab! And presence of an artifact of such power can only intensify these struggles. So idea of hiding this stone sounds pretty reasonable for me.

[Rey]

Sorontar and Gheal, you both have a point.
It really sounds like Indiana Jones and it really had to be hidden somewhere. In the wrong hands this could be a dangerous thing.

I wonder than what happened to the royal stones of Anuire's crown. Someone has stolen them, but they are nowhere to be found and no one seems to be using them. So what was the point of that thievery? Taken to Aduria? Burried? Left on someone's table for a decoration?

Aram and the Thirty took the Sielehr with them, built churches on their way to the north, so they must've stopped for longer periods of time. Then they went to Torova, built a convict and stayed with the stone. Forever? Maybe they are fundamentalists. Why just not leave it there and go home?

[AndrewTall]

Hmm, maybe they hid it during the occupation, and left when El-Arrasi was murdered, now they await a worthy heir - one who would of course need to be subjected to a number of tests to prove themselves...

Losing something permanently is quite easily done with the use of a random mine and a few magical explosions. I presume therefore that they are waiting for something, or perhaps preventing the stone from finding its way back into the world - perhaps it holds a fragment of Basaia's soul and they wish to keep it trapped in the stone lest it threaten Avani's rule over the sun?

Or perhaps they died long ago and now protect the stone in spirit form, desperate for some worthy scion to take it back to Avani's faithful now that some threat has passed...

[Caelcormac]

I always thought it was an ideal place for a Sidhelien/Dragon Kingdom.

I decided that I would place the whole isle over a large thermal vent sort of affair where the mountains sported not fewer than a half dozen "inactive" volcanoes that slowly vent...and it is the thermal layer of molten rock beneath that kept the island warmer. I pictured all lands to the north and west of the forest to be nearly barren tundra akin to that found within Hogunmark and the Realm of the White Witch; while the forest was a more than viable habitat for Sidhelien...but elves that were allies to the power of the Dragon. The lands to the east of the forest I again pictured as mostly barren, but somewhat more habitable than those to the north and west.

The relationship between the Si and the Dragon was more of a symbiotic relationship where the Si lived as nomads above ground in the warmer times; but in the harsh winters they would move below into their underground city found near the mountains...sort of Tolkien like I suppose now that I think harder on it. The Dragon was in fact a guardian of these elven people, having been raised and nurtured by the elves, and it still received such nurture from its elven allies. Being able to take the form of an Elf itself, the dragon often mingled with the elves; even going to war with them when needed...serving as a mount for whatever monarch then ruled the elven people.

I remember the temple on the island, and decided that long ago the Si had allowed the temple to stay because it did not encroach upon the island at all...and in fact the temple inhabitants know the Si and acquire food and supplies from them in exchange for crafts that the temple produces (such as potions of healing or what have you). While the mountain pass is impassable most of the year, this does not apply to the Si who move to and from the temple at will because of their affinity for nature. I also thought that perhaps the Si were to account for those living in the temple that tired of being there and left to while away the rest of their lives amid the enchanted realm of the Si...even their long lives whisking by and gone before they realized it.

Those who have visited the island usually do not return if they try to penetrate too deeply into the woodlands or mountains. In the mountains, the dragon has eliminated long ago the last vestiges of any humanoids; but there are still great Ice Bears and other predators...and of course the dragon! Those trying to explore the forest are usually left unmolested by the shadowy Si who flit about them and simply cause mischief and dread; but are perfectly willing to slaughter anyone who might stumble upon any sign of their habitation of the island.

Because none of the Si (nor the Dragon) are blooded at all, the island remained undefined as a political realm, and exists more akin to its original state long before humanity came to Cerilia. Packs of wolves prowl the plains and forest in pursuit of animal herds, while the northern shore is home to all sorts of seals and such. I thought of the island as a preserve really of the Dragon that was husbanded by the Si who exist only in small numbers; but are ancient and fell in might and knowledge.

Their only city, as I said, is underground; and so they leave no mark on the world above, ensuring that it remains pristine and wild. Within their city they have their places of craft and scholarly pursuit; as well as food stores and general living quarters. I pictured this city to be located within the Hills (the only ones shown) within the forest. The Si traveled within the forests mounted upon great Reindeer that they ride bareback. In fact the herds of Reindeer freely accept the Si as riders.

As individual Si scouts ride with a particular herd, they are able to keep a solid eye on the land and lookout for possible intruders that their Order of Keepers might miss.

The Keepers are Si with extraordinary powers of divination who know full well what transpires in Cerilia. They practice the utmost caution in their scrying however, scrying on places instead of individuals. They use few illusion magics on the island because these can be detected and thus give away the Si living there. Instead they use subtle manipulation of their island to cause stampeding herds, hungry wolf packs and etc to steer intruders away until as a last resort intruders must simply be caused to vanish. No prisoners are taken, all are killed immediately by the "Wolf Protectors" who run with packs of wolves who then devour the intruders.

The Wolf Protectors use specially enchanted arrows that simply vanish after penetrating and doing damage to their target. They are fashioned using magic that takes the wound from an animal and instills that wound into the arrow. When their arrows strike, it seems that a wolf or bear has inflicted a horrible wound on the target instead; and the arrows simply vanish. Their spears are made of horn and enchanted so that they are as hard as steel. Anyone slain by one of these spears might look as if gored many times. The warriors also carry war-hammers made of the mighty hooves of the reindeer as well, and these weapons are used for close in work. Either of these weapons that is lost for too long from the hands of a Si also withers away into enchanted dust/snow that blows away on the wind.

On and on the ideas flowed on the island of Torova Temylatin when I played before; but these are the things I remember now.

[Sorontar]

I am a little confused by your memories Caelcormac.

So am I correct in thinking that the Si were on the island well before the Battle of Mt Diesmaar? And hence, they were not involved in the battle and thus were not blooded? But there was no transfer of bloodlines from the humans from the temple who mingled with them?

Why did the dragon change from being nice to the Si to "eliminated long ago the last vestiges of any humanoids" in the Mountains? Was the temple in the mountains or the forest (or somewhere else)? Were the mountains exclusive to the dragon and no Si or humans ever? What was on either side of the mountain pass?

And the reindeer, did they spend winter aboveground or undergound?

BTW, I presume by "the Dragon" you are talking about a Cerilian dragon, not the awnshegh called the Dragon.

[Caelcormac]

I am a little confused by your memories Caelcormac.

So am I correct in thinking that the Si were on the island well before the Battle of Mt Diesmaar? And hence, they were not involved in the battle and thus were not blooded? But there was no transfer of bloodlines from the humans from the temple who mingled with them?

Why did the dragon change from being nice to the Si to "eliminated long ago the last vestiges of any humanoids" in the Mountains? Was the temple in the mountains or the forest (or somewhere else)? Were the mountains exclusive to the dragon and no Si or humans ever? What was on either side of the mountain pass?

And the reindeer, did they spend winter aboveground or undergound?

BTW, I presume by "the Dragon" you are talking about a Cerilian dragon, not the awnshegh called the Dragon.

Humanoids is an old D&D expression meaning anything not human or demi-human (dwarves, elves, halflings and gnomes). So I mean that it eliminated any remnant of goblins or what have you. I hadn't decided even if any creatures had ever came to the island...but any that had would have been destroyed by the fury of the dragon. The very thing that makes the island warmer, actually makes the "underdark" too hot for civilization at all. So no Orogs tunneling in or even Dwarves.

My thinking is that they were indeed not part of the Great Battle and were hidden even from their own brethren...and so Azrai, not knowing of them, made no attempt to persuade them. Or, if he did, they had no desire to listen to him because they had never been in contact with humans...aside from perhaps some few that had been easily eliminated and their lands left unspoiled. Further, the Keepers had perhaps divined some measure of the future and knew the ill fate in store for Cerilia...and more particularly the Sidhelien.

The humans from the temple didn't create scions with the Si...while the Si are on friendly terms with them...perhaps they simply do not choose to mate with them...maybe the Khinasi are seen as ugly? :D Perhaps the Khinasi simply have been slowly dying off. I thought just now actually that maybe the Artifact is desired by the Si to be on the island because it contributes in a positive manner to the well being of the island. Who knows.

The Si can enter the mountains freely, and the Dragon is not so ancient of a dragon that it had any measure of power when the temple was created. As it was raised by the Si, it is still friendly to them. This never changed. The dragon is "simply" a Cerilian Dragon. It leaves the temple inviolate because it honors the treaties of its Si allies/friends/family.

The mountain pass is the one that is closed for most parts of the year to the Temple. It isn't closed to the Si because they can simply walk upon the snow with no ill effect.

As for Reindeer, they would have of course stayed above ground. The forests would be perfect wintering grounds for them...just as forests are wintering grounds for Reindeer in our own world.