Dragon Age Origins

[Arjan]

I just had to play this game, not because i was "waiting" for a good RPG game for years but also because of the toolkit...

years ago with NWN 1 i have tried to come up with a BR module making use of the NWN engine...
i had very high expectations of the DA toolkit... and i must say... DAMN that thing is powerful and way more flexible then its predecessors ( i did not say easy)

anyway, as my crazy mind turns around, of course thinking about a BR module AGAIN..

i was wondering if others have played the game and are perhaps interested in a BR mod for it...

just thinking out loud..

[Windass]

Got the game just rather frustratingly waiting for the uber PC to be delivered so I can play it.... :(
A BR mod sounds very intriguing :)

[Vicente]

I've finished the game (great game :) ), but I haven't looked at the tools yet. One problem I just come with is that the advantage of NWN is that it used the DnD ruleset, but DA has a whole different system (could be a pretty big problem, although it depends on how modable the game is).

Any links or info about the tools? (just to play with them a little :)).

[Arjan]

I've finished the game (great game :) ), but I haven't looked at the tools yet. One problem I just come with is that the advantage of NWN is that it used the DnD ruleset, but DA has a whole different system (could be a pretty big problem, although it depends on how modable the game is).

Any links or info about the tools? (just to play with them a little :)).


actually the RPG ruleset doesnt need to be a problem..
the rules are even more simplified..
plus, birthright is great for story telling..
the new toolkit makes it easier to add things like classes, skills and even attributions.. where it was a pain in the ass with NWN with overwriting and editing core files, you now "extend" those files... so you dont have to touch those files..
(but will come clear when you play around with it)

i have followed the video tutorials from silentcid, since the whole toolkit was a bit overwhelming with all the things you can do.
his projectgroup is here: http://social.bioware.com/project/527/

the toolkit can be downloaded from the bioware site
http://social.bioware.com/toolset.php

[Arjan]

as for a story i have been thinking a bit...

instead of slaying a dragon.. perhaps freeing a dragon hehe (raizhdik)

in order to free her from the chains, you have to relive the past, solve things in the past..
was thinking about using the BA Bloodhistory for that...

you start the game as a Roele descendant, suddenly you get a dream about the flight from the shadow, the dragon and the gorgon or something...

<get new skill: Bloodhistory> (ok i know it is for Brenna, Masela, Vorynn only.. but hey ;) )

then through research and talking in the city of anuire you will learn how to use it, and to go back in various timelines.
ie, save your family from during the flight from the shadow... united the humans for the fight on deismaar... travel through the shadowworld... go back in time to know more about four tomes of laila (Royal college of sorcery)
back to present to go actually in the ruins to recover them (could be interesting)..
and eventually free raizhadik...

this story should cover most of the BR history and the feeling of the setting.

[Vicente]

Damm man, this sounds pretty pretty interesting :) I'm going to start watching the information you posted, I could really be interested in helping in something like this (I'm a coder, no graphical ability here...).

[Mirviriam]

I mod'd a light weight war3 map - very time intensive ... highly suggest you learn the code langauge that goes with the gui tool set if they have one :)

[Arjan]

Damm man, this sounds pretty pretty interesting :) I'm going to start watching the information you posted, I could really be interested in helping in something like this (I'm a coder, no graphical ability here...).

the problem at the moment is that a lot of things still have to be discovered in the toolset, ie how to add classes (a tutorial was posted yesterday, finally)
I am working on replacing the standard background stories.. but it keeps crashing DA.
but the class tut really helped me take the next step, but it was late yesterday, so ill make a new try today.

I havnt touced the lvlediting yet due to the lack of tutorials..
but more and more info pops up :)

@ mirviriam, yes they have a kind of script code.. follows standard programming rules.
yep, and it is indeed time consuming, but it is also fun to do :)

[Arjan]

well, modifying the backgrounds is just undoable at the moment.. there are some weird very sensitive stringrefs in one file (which displays the background description) and are linked somehow to the origin stories...
modifying them crashes the game.

nevertheless i have came up with a workaround since just changing the titles does work. and hey, sidhelien are true elves as well, right :)
and an anuirean noble is still a human noble :)

now i am working on 2 new classes, cleric and paladin. Both only available as human or dwarves.
since i cannot replace the backgrounds (i wanted to put up the deities there) i think that both clases will just be Haelyn and Moradin

[BRadmin]

right.. i was about to attach two sceenshots... but somehow the upload attachment is set on NO... while according all the permission i can... hmmm

[Vicente]

the problem at the moment is that a lot of things still have to be discovered in the toolset, ie how to add classes (a tutorial was posted yesterday, finally)
I am working on replacing the standard background stories.. but it keeps crashing DA.
but the class tut really helped me take the next step, but it was late yesterday, so ill make a new try today.

I havnt touced the lvlediting yet due to the lack of tutorials..
but more and more info pops up :)

@ mirviriam, yes they have a kind of script code.. follows standard programming rules.
yep, and it is indeed time consuming, but it is also fun to do :)

I'm getting the tutorial videos from Fileplanet, but I have a normal account and the queues for Spain are killing me...

[Arjan]

I'm getting the tutorial videos from Fileplanet, but I have a normal account and the queues for Spain are killing me...

ill see what i can do, perhaps i can upload them to BRnet

oh here are the two screenshots

[Arjan]

so far i have been playing with the toolset to get to know it a bit better

but i am filled with ideas :)


the details:

well, you start either as a blooded char or normal..

blooded will discover the bloodline abilitie "blood history", unblooded will go through a ritual performed by cleric to enter the dreamstate to go back in time.

this ability wil unlock a map (the birthright time line) which you must travel back and forth to unravel the secret to eventually free raizhadik from the gorgon.

current date: you will get a dream about a dragon locked away in a dark tower.. (actually razhadik entering your dream with her last energy).
traveling through the city of anuire, asking around you find out who she is, and that she is rumored to be slain by the gorgon..
eventually you find out she is being held and the only way to break her chains is to combine 4 tomes which are supposed to be lying/hidden in the ruins of the college of sorcery.
you have to go back in time to discover about the 4 tomes.. tracing it back since the flight from the shadow.
once you know where to find them, you can go back to the current date to actually retrieve them..(lots of riddles and magic protecting them in the ruins) finding out you dont have enough bloodpower to use the spell inside.
and ofcourse the only way to get an true high bloodline... is to find the old roele one which was grounded when he slain by the gorgon...
so there you go back in time to that exact battle, to find out its location...you have to reunited the humans to get ready for the endbattle and you even get the change to face your battle as roele against the gorgon... ofcourse you loose...
once you know the location you need to find a way to digg up the bloodline...
the bloodline is being preserved by a ancient mebhaigl source (Caerbhaghlien ) making it very hard to control.. but a spell in the 4 tomes let a powerfull mage (or find an awaken an other dragon which you have to convince) access it deeper power able to to control the source for a limited time...

afer the bloodline is restored you are now able to go for the dragon in kalshatairak, to eventually free her

i even bumped into a nice title/credit song " Gortoz a Ran" (I'm waiting)
the tekst is actually very suitable
the translation is:
I was waiting, waiting for a long time
In the dark shadow of grey towers
In the dark shadow of grey towers

In the dark shadow of rain towers
You will see me waiting forever
You will see me waiting forever

One day it will come back
Over the lands, over the seas

The blue wind will return
And take back with it my wounded heart

I will be pulled away by its breath
Far away in the stream, wherever it wishes

Wherever it wishes, far away from this world
Between the sea and the stars

here is the youtube linke. (lol found out is a song in black hawk down)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQS6XQOhNh0

this is what i had in mind for the main quest line :)

[BRadmin]

the two screenies as attachment now (yes it works again... dont ask what was wrong, i dont know..)

[Vicente]

Nice start :) Would be nice to visit some dwarven and elven lands too :) (given that the game comes with those models, let's use them).

Regards!

Vicente

[Sorontar]

Cool. Are you going to make any other blood abilities/blooded skills be available to the characters? Or is that beyond the system?

Sorontar

[BRadmin]

Nice start :) Would be nice to visit some dwarven and elven lands too :) (given that the game comes with those models, let's use them).

Regards!

Vicente
indeed, thats why i made the sidhelien and dwarven chars to play with..
would ofc be nice to have multiple origin stories..
but its a challenge enough already to get 1 :)


Cool. Are you going to make any other blood abilities/blooded skills be available to the characters? Or is that beyond the system?

Sorontar

yes, i'd like to .. but we have to decide which one would be usuable, for example bloodwrath.. is similar to beserk ... which comes available when you get that "specialisation"
abilities are not hard to add though.. i think there are way worse challenges to overcome

for example, what to do with the other human races? since it is limited to 6 playable races (can add more as NPC though).. but that means you can not play them all..

same goes for choosing a deity...
i was hoping to be able to replace backgrounds by the deities.. but ran in to some big troubles replacing them..
i was thinking about adding them the same way as specialisations which can be learned during the game... but i will have to remove/replace specialisation slots by a deity one...
so for now, i will just stick with the assumption.. when you are human, you are a haelyn cleric or paladin/templar and moradin for dwarves

also the GUI is not manipulatable so i have no idea how the system reacts when there are more then 6 races

[Sorontar]

6 races you say...
elf, dwarf, Anuirean, Brecht, Khinasi, Rjurik/Vos

Halflings are really under-represented in Birthright. Half-elves can be ignored. The two "rougher" human cultures can be merged.

[Sorontar]

Oh, and just match the favoured religion to each human society. So Haelyn for Anuirean, Sera for Brecht, Avani for Khinasi. For Rjurik/Vos, if you don't want to allow "evil" characters, then make it Erik. Otherwise, pick Belinik.

[Thelandrin]

Why "Sidhelien Elf"? Surely that's tautologous. If you want a class for them, how about "Sidhelien Mage" or "Sidhelien Ranger"?

[BRadmin]

Why "Sidhelien Elf"? Surely that's tautologous. If you want a class for them, how about "Sidhelien Mage" or "Sidhelien Ranger"?

its merely the background title..

so a "Sidhelien Elf" can be a Mage, warrior and a rogue...

[Arjan]

screenshot of a Haelyn priestess

[Vicente]

Very nice work! :)

[Arjan]

skinning is quite easy.. but you have limited robe models

for example, the chantry robe has only 1 model used, so i can only reskin it only once.. and not for example one for each priesthood.

[Arjan]

here are kriesha/belenik cleric/priestess

[Arjan]

I am making quite some progress in the character creation.

now 6 races to play with.
Anuirean
Brecht
Rjurik
Vos
Dwarfs
Elves

I chose to op out the khinasii since there are no area models simulating the khinasii architecture. For all the other human races there is something available.

classes so far: warrior, mage, rogue (didnt touch that yet)
but thinking about adding the following classes
Cleric, Paladin (ranger or bard?) or any of you have other thoughts?

I manages to finally replace all background stories by the deities for each race.
thus
Anuirean ->Haelyn
Brecht -> Sera
Rjurik -> Erik
Vos -> Belinik + Kriesha
Dwarfes -> Moradin
Elves -> none but had to make a button for it or you can not continue, so it says "Sidhelien"


Ill try to add screenies later

[Blackaxe]

Keep up the good work!

[Sorontar]

I think Bard. It is the ultimate jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none so it allows people to try the closest to mage/warrior multiclassing we can get.

Ranger is just a fighter who can access a few spells. Mind you, I think of paladin as an uber-fighter who can access a few spells. Both have ideologies that are supposed to impede their powers. Bards don't.

Druid is too much a cleric to worry about.

Sorceror is too much a mage.

Warlock I know nothing of.

So I would add cleric and bard, and maybe paladin if you want a second fighter type.

[Arjan]

the dragon age class system is devided up quite easy

you got 3 main classes, then through specialisations you can get kind of prestige classes


* Warrior
o Berserker
o Templar (paladin)
o Champion
o Reaver

* Mage
o Shapeshifter (i.e. druid)
o Spirit Healer (cleric)
o Blood Mage (warlock)
o Arcane Warrior

* Rogue
o Assassin
o Bard
o Ranger
o Duelist

Only the core classes have a long list of abilities/talents, the specialisations only got 4 talents.

we could adopt the current system, but i just dont like the mage being the base of all spellcasters.. (not really BRish either... well in some ways it is..)
so i really like to split the mage into mages and clerics(druids) and give them a somewhat different set of spells (actually depending on the clergy what spell you get... erik get s the shapeshifting abilities and belinik/kreisha the ice based spells etc)

so knowing this, would you keep the current set of classes with specialisations, or split things more and add more classes?

[Arjan]

here are some new screenshots

[Sorontar]

So, am I understanding that once you pick a race, you can't change the background? For instance, if you are Anuirean, then your background will always be Haelyn? It can never be Sera or Erik etc?

I can handle Bards being a type of Rogue, but I have never thought of Rangers as being anything but Fighters. Why else would they have been given the legendary two-handed weapon skill?! It sounds like they are saying Rangers are rogues who can fight better (like Arcane Warrior is a Mage who can fight better). I always thought it was the other way round (Rangers as Fighters who can do neat tricks in the wild).

As for magic users.... what do you get at first level (or before specialisations)? Can you differentiate between arcane magic and clerical magic there? What about when you get to specialisations? Is there really any difference in the game other than spell lists?

[Vicente]

I agree with Sorontar, the game would "only" need 2 more classes: Cleric (to separate spellcasters) and then Bards.

Paladins, rangers and druids can be made with specialization class powers (or reserve that for prestige classes and use 1 of the normal class ability trees for that).

P.D.: I have look at the tutorials, but haven't done anything else :(

[Arjan]

yes indeed, an anuirean is devoted to haelyn (think you said that a
few posts earlier.. cant reach BRnet now to check)
but if you say its more logic to open up the deities for all races,
thats no problem.
you will get combos like, female vos cleric of erik, or male rjurik
warrior of sera, male anuirean rogue of belinik.

there is indeed no difference between arcane and divine magic... just
a pile of spells (based on mana) which you could separate. (or create
new ones...)

[Arjan]

yep, i agree as well.. cleric for sure
anything else can be optional or decided along the way.

we do however have to decide to open up deities to all human races as described above

i have also created a group on the bioware social network

http://social.bioware.com/group/828/

[Sorontar]

Arjan said:
yes indeed, an anuirean is devoted to haelyn (think you said that a
few posts earlier.. cant reach BRnet now to check)

I did say that but I didn't say that :^)

I said:

Oh, and just match the favoured religion to each human society. So Haelyn for Anuirean, Sera for Brecht, Avani for Khinasi. For Rjurik/Vos, if you don't want to allow "evil" characters, then make it Erik. Otherwise, pick Belinik

What I was initially meaning was, if you are going to include race X then you need to include their favoured god B. So if you are allowing PCs to be Anuireans, then you have to include Haelyn. I wasn't saying that you can't have Anuireans following anyone else (I think), but just that they would have to be able to follow Haelyn.

What do others think? Is variety better or does it ruin the cultural distinctions if you can have a Rjurik priest of Sera, a Brecht Paladin of Haelyn and an Anuirean Priest of Erik?

[Thelandrin]

That last is what the Oaken Grove are :)

[Sorontar]

There are also Brecht temples of Erik (Old Father of the Forests etc) that can be regarded as canon though I believe most of what is on the wiki has been added by us.

So yes, every human group is multi-faith. The question is whether it makes a difference for this game. Does an Anuirean have different attributes/feats/skills to a Brecht in your version of Dragon Age? If so, then the combination of 4 human cultures and 4/5 faiths will end up with 16 different templates of priest, which is good, provided none is too weak or strong. They don't have to be balanced IMO, just not extreme.

Sorontar

[Vicente]

I would make every race have a default god. True the setting is not like that, but I don't think adding the choice of deities is going to matter much in the end (another alternative would be to default the deity by race and class combinations).

[Sorontar]

From what Arjan has said, the choice of deity will matter for clerics as it will change the spells available.

I am also thinking that perhaps the deity could also be used to give "strengths" to all characters in the form of small bonuses for saving throws, e.g. Haelyn gives a Reflex bonus, Sera a Will bonus, Erik a Fortitude bonus etc. I realise that this is not exactly Birthright but it is in the spirit IMO.

Of course, poor elves and dwarves won't have the same range of choice but that is their cultural fault for being what they are. They get genetic bonuses of their own right after all.

[Arjan]

actually a whole list of multipliers is possible.

like in the 2nd ed BR we can give the human races bonuses to ability stats, as well as bonus skills depending a deity.. for each and everyone a choice

[Sorontar]

actually a whole list of multipliers is possible.

Wunderbar!

[Vicente]

From what Arjan has said, the choice of deity will matter for clerics as it will change the spells available.


I think I didn't say things right: if you are modding the game, you have quite a lot of freedom in what to add and what not to add, but my point was that this is quite a minor detail, so maybe it's not worth to spend a lot of time here.

Of course you can make it as complicated and important as you like, but not sure if this point really deserves that.

[vota dc]

What about gnolls that are present in the Gorgon's army?I mean goblins are quite similar to genlocks,but for gnolls you need a new 3D model.

[Vicente]

Mmm, I have tried to join the group at Bioware but I get stuck in an endless you have to log loop :S

[Arjan]

Mmm, I have tried to join the group at Bioware but I get stuck in an endless you have to log loop :S

hmm , ill take a look

[Vicente]

hmm , ill take a look

I think it's Bioware fault, when I click join, even if I'm logged I'm asked to log to join. I log, and then I'm asked again to log. I log again, and then nothing happens ever again...

[Arjan]

i indeed can not find anything strange.,.. every one should be able to join..

[calaen]

I would think really if you want to keep with the spirit of Dragon Age, then the Origin stories should give you a different playable background that would change how others in the game respond to you. So one other option, besides going with different gods, would be to have only three races and a number of potential origins. Something like:

*Human
- Anuirean (would have an origin in Roesone, or wherever)
- Vos (would be a servant of the Raven perhaps)

*Elf
- Sielwode (would serve Isalie)
- Tuarhievel (might be sent out as an emissary to Dhoesone)

*Dwarf
- Baruk-Azhik (might be a guilder)
- etc.

Alternately, you could make different Origins for different bloodlines, and have the game really be about you trying to fulfill the epic destiny of your blood. Then you could have a Brenna origin, a Vorynn origin, even an Azrai origin, and could mix-and-match races (including human subraces) and bloodlines, as hypothetically any race could be from any bloodline.

[Vicente]

i indeed can not find anything strange.,.. every one should be able to join..

Ok, it was a IE8 thing, with FF I could join perfectly :)