View Full Version : 4E Birthright (Soudhadies)

09-10-2009, 06:51 PM
Hi everyone,

I know there has been some discussion about duplication of effort, but this is the system I have come up with for my own 4e campaign. It is at the level where it is playable, and I would love to here feedback to it.


Several things of note:

1. It scales up from the local level. The system is tier based, starting with local level. Most domains in the original campaign would be regal tier domains in this system.

2. The Bloodline system (called "legacies") is based on the 4E magic item system. I believe that this: (1) taps into a vast amount of material that can be used to customize the flavor of a bloodline, (2) eliminates the need to convert and create dozens of 4E blood abilities, (3) overcomes the duplication of function between magic items and blood abilities, and (4) reduces the need for magic items, allowing a "low-magic" setting.

3. The domain system is simple and takes a back seat to adventuring. One of my objectives in this conversion was to eliminate the "accountants and actuaries" problem that has brought down every BR campaign I have tried to run because of all the calculations and book keeping. If things seem stripped down, it is because the domain system is meant to take a back seat to adventuring. If the PCs care about something enough to devote their attention to it, then it should be an advenure. Otherwise it should be handled as quickly and efficiently as possible.


soudhadies (FKA "Bearcat")

09-11-2009, 03:06 AM
Nice work! Very interesting....it will take me a while to review and digest. It looks like you have rewritten and remade things to apply to any setting, with few if any specific Birthright ties. Do you have an actual Domain or Character writeup?

09-11-2009, 09:59 AM
At a brief glance some of this looks interesting and along similar ideas that I have been working on. I will have to have a good read though.

Nice work and thanks for sharing.

09-12-2009, 04:16 AM
One of my goals was to make this a generally transferable, setting neutral conversion because it is geared towards building up a domain from the ground up. I have been working on a conversion of Tuornen for my campaign, so far I only have the Province of Elevesnemiere done, because it is the setting of my current campaign. The break down goes like this (and follows the format in the province template file):

Elevesnemiere (2) [Forest] [Tuornen]

Laela Flaertes LF 50; 15 [BE 35; 15 (CC 5; 5) (BP 5; 5) (DP 5; 5) (AT 5; 5)]
Freeholds 0
LF = Laela Flaertes, BE = Bramm Elevesnemiere, CC = Caedhe Cawaine, BP = Brosen Pelien, DP = Druene Plieme, AT = Agelmore Tallspear.

Prince’s Pride PAI 15; 0 [Ea 8; 8] [Be 7; 7]
Unincorporated 0
PAI = Parniel Anuviere Iniere (Prince’s Pride), Ea = Eame Council of Guilds, Be = Benton Town Council.

Militant Order of Cuiraecen MOC 15; 0 [BeD 6; 6] [EaD 5; 5] [SoC 4;]
Unorganized 0
MOC = Militant Order of Cuiraecen (Fhylie the Sword), BeD = Benton Diocese, EaD = Eame Diocese, SoC = Spears of Cuiraecen.

Caine Ca 150
Uncontrolled 50
Ca = Caine.

Laela Flaertes (Bard 4): Legacy 12 (+6), Domain level 13, Stability +8, Manors 410 / Guilds 30; Optimal Assets 110.

Bramm Elevesnemiere (Level 1): Legacy 6 (+3), Domain level 6, Stability +3, Manors 35; Optimal Assets 15.

09-13-2009, 10:29 AM
I have read over the "Ruling a Domain" and I must say it is a little confusing. I am not sure but I don't think you have it all down on paper. For those who did not make up these new rules more explaination is required.:)

Stability: how do you calculate this score?? I have no idea and neither does my wife after reading these rules. The only place I could see was at the bottom of the first table but it talks about regency

Could you give a clear and concise explination for this please as I think this will help to understand some of the rest.

09-13-2009, 05:57 PM
There was a lot of renaming terms that went on in the drafting process, I missed that "Regency". I have tried rewriting the definition of Stability, lets see if it is any better:

Stability: If your Domain modifier does not exceed your Legacy modifier + half-level, then your Stability bonus is equal to your Domain modifier. Otherwise your Stability bonus is equal to your Legacy modifier + half-level, but is reduced by the amount by which your Domain bonus exceeds that number.

Using Laela Flartes as an example:

Turonen is a level 16 domain, which gives it a domain modifier of +8. Laela is a level four bard with a Legacy of 12, this gives her a bonus of +6 (legacy) +2 (half-level), for a total of +8. Because her legacy + half-level doesn't exceed then her Stability Bonus is equal to her domain modifier (+8). If her Domain modifier was lower, say +7 then that would be her Stability modifier.

The second clause is triggered if her Domain modifier was higher, say +9. Then her Stability bonus would be +7 = +8 (Legacy modifier + half level) - 1 (amount by which her Domain modifier exceeds that number).


The Stability bonus serves the same function in the domain system as the half-level does in 4E: it is added to pretty much every roll as you scale up through levels.

However, it also builds in the idea from the original domain rules that as the size of a domain exceeds a regent's bloodline, the regent becomes less effective as a ruler. In the original domain rules this was done by capping the number of regency points a regent could collect per turn and accumulate.

As in the original domain rules, there is a sweet spot where the regent maxes out their bonus, and any further growth ends up being detrimental. Laela happens to be at that sweet spot.

09-14-2009, 03:24 AM
Cool. That explains it better. I will read over that area again with that explaination it should make more sense.

11-06-2009, 01:51 AM
It's been a while since anyone has posted here, but either the link to the file is broken or the file no longer exists on the new server. Is it possible to upload again or is there an off-site link to it I can use? I'd like to have a look at the proposal.



02-06-2010, 11:07 PM
Does anyone have a copy of this file? The linkage is broken, and I'm very interested in taking a look at this conversion!

02-08-2010, 01:59 AM
This might have been lost at the same time as some of the wiki images that I and someone-else added were lost (cf. http://www.birthright.net/forums/missing-image-files-t5152.html). I suspect that the rules will have to be re-uploaded by someone.


02-09-2010, 12:13 AM
I re-posted the file again. I believe that it should be working now.

02-09-2010, 01:23 AM
I re-posted the file again. I believe that it should be working now.

Thank you soudhadies. It seems to work fine for me now. Have you been able to test-play it yet?


02-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Sadly, no.

I just had to relocate for work, and so I lost my playtest pool/gaming group.

02-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Yes, a thousand thanks!

02-11-2010, 06:09 AM
Thanks a lot, very interesting read! :)

02-11-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm just making my mark to say that I'm confused with the whole thing. :)

02-11-2010, 10:08 PM
So this has been used in a campaign already?

Or am I just confused too...

02-12-2010, 02:50 PM
It has not been used in a campaign yet-- this is at best a first draft. I would be willing to accept feedback as to people's thoughts. Is there anything specifically confusing or is it a complete mess?

02-18-2010, 01:27 AM
I thought I might've been on track as to what this thread was about and then somehow I couldn't figure out. I know it has to do with 4e and how you converted a bit of it... but then I got lost.

02-18-2010, 02:09 PM
I had created a 4E version of domain rules and created this thread to announce that I had posted the file on the downloads section of the website. Months later, when the site went through an update, that file was apparently lost. The more recent posts began when people tried to download the file but found only a broken link. I then re-posted the file and announced as much.

I hope that clears things up.

02-19-2010, 07:14 AM
I actually like it a great deal.

I figured it out, and it seems to work just fine for any campaign and not just a campaign of blooded scions.

While I can't offer specifics, it does become a little confusing when dealing with multiple domains as a Dungeon Master I think. There is a lot to be said for how easy it adapts to any campaign world though!

If you could offer perhaps a description of how a war would be carried out I would appreciate it myself. The war rules I'm a little confused about as far as how invading and conquering actually works on a mass scale.

02-22-2010, 04:07 AM
The rulers of the neighboring provinces of Blackacre and Whiteacre are bitter rivals. Both provinces are level one, and each ruler owns the 25 manors in the province.

The owner of Blackacre decides that he will conduct a raid on Whiteacre. During one of his turns he will use the war holding action against Whiteacre, which he will support with his manor holding in Blackacre. He needs to do this because a war action must be supported by a holding or asset of some kind.

To make his attack, the owner of Blackacre rolls Stability + Strength + 1 (The level of Blackacre) against the Might + 1 (The level of Whiteacre) of the owner of Whiteacre. If he succeeds then the level 1 holding of Whiteacre is now occupied by him.

This means that:
• This asset or holding does not contribute to its domain’s level or optimal assets.
• It cannot be used by its domain to support domain actions.
• The domain occupying this asset or holding may use it to support the War action.
• The domain occupying this asset or holding may treat its assets as uncontrolled for the purposed of the Annexation action.

When the next turn rolls around, and then the owner of Blackacre can choose to sustain the occupation with a domain action if he does so (which ties up Blackacre for another turn), then he can choose to destroy a number the manors that make up the holding to gain regency, and he can also use Whiteacre to support war actions deeper into the owner of Whiteacre's territory. He can also target Whiteacre with an Annexation action, which will transfer ownership of a number of the manors that make up Whiteacre to him.

In the mean time, if the owner of Whiteacre owns other holdings, he can use them to support a war action against Whiteacre. If he succeeds he manages to remove the occupation and regains control of Whiteacre.

Castles and knights add to the bonuses either side would enjoy to the rolls. The only twist on this is that knights can be moved to different realms, whereas castles cannot. For example, the owner of Blackacre could use his knights to support the attack on Whiteacre by attaching those knights to Blackacre before using the war action (Think of this as being akin to equipping a weapon in a PC). After this the owner of Blackacre can move the knights to Whiteacre as a free action, where they will be free to make attacks deeper into the territory of the owner of Whiteacre.

02-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Soudhadies you have done a very very good job. Very detailed, and from the little i've play tested it works fine. Granted it's not for me, but it's very nice. That being said I'm trying to scale down the level of detail I've been running. I've gone back to the second Ed of the game and worked on making it jive a little more here and there. But again nice work.

05-07-2010, 07:55 AM
I've got a few questions:

1) In the estates I thought I read the temple estates has an arcane action check(prediction of future type thing)??

2) Why does a raid result in control of that holding? Aren't raids a hit & run type thing? What does a full fledged war do? Are you able to raid without declaring war?

3) Why does a holding roll against another holding? Where do the characters & armies become involved? I take it you did away with armies when raids are involved?

4) From what I was reading in your files on the website ... is this just a conversion pack to change Eberon into birthright? Are you going to take these core rules & flesh them out in to a birthright set of rules, as it stands now it's like you're still applying a spin to the game - like pathfinder for 3.5?

06-15-2010, 10:34 PM
1) I believe that you are referring to the "Prolixity" power in the Oracular estate? I see that it lists the "faith" keyword. That is a mistake. It should read "magic." The Oracular estate is the equivalent of the Source/Mage domain type in 2E.

2) I assume you are referring to the "War" action, then a raid is possible, although not immediate. When you sustain a war action you can choose to pillage the occupied holdings and convert them into Regency. I believe that this is in line with the way war and pillaging worked in 2E. As for what a full fledged war does, a successful occupation opens up several options for the occupying force: (1) pillaging the occupied lands; (2) slowly establishing permanent control over the occupied territory through the annexation action; (3) using the occupied territory as a forward base of operations for war actions that are farther afield.

3) One of the assumptions that I made is that the purpose of a manor holding in feudal society is to support feudal military forces by providing food and men to the sovereign. Therefore, the manor itself has a basic level of military prowess. This does not mean that additional armies don't exist. Look under "Domain Improvements" that function much like 4E magic items. Basically you can "equip" a manor with knights, etc. that give the manor holding a bonus to war actions that it takes, in the same way that a +1 sword helps a fighter hit.

4) I wrote this with the idea of being setting neutral-not with the idea that it should fit Eberron, FR, or BR. I have run campaigns in multiple settings, and have often wished to have rules of this type available as the characters progress. I did want to re-imagine the rules system in a way that used the main design principles behind 4E.