Contest

[Sir Tiamat]

I am trying to create a system for contesting holdings based on the fourth edition combat system and want to share and exchange progress with the B-right community.


In my view contest should be much like regular combat with multiple actors using their holdings as weapons to strike at each other’s powerbases.


Edit.

Holding HP:

10/ level, if a holding is reduced to 0 HP it loses one level.

Holding damage:

Small holding, level 0-3: 1d4
Medium holding, level 4-6: 1d6
Large holding, level 7-8: 1d8
Huge holding, level 9-10: 1d10

[Sir Tiamat]

Before the first round of contest, you roll initiative, which is similar to normal initiative except it is a "responsiveness" check. Regents act in initiative order as per the PHB. The initiative order remains the same from round to round, although a contestant’s position in the order can change after delaying or readying.

ROLLING INITIATIVE
To determine a contest’s initiative order,
roll initiative. To do so, make a Responsiveness check.
Roll 1d20 and add the following:

✦ One-half your level
✦ Your Responsiveness modifier
✦ Any bonuses or penalties that apply

The result is your initiative for this contest. When combatants have the same initiative, the combatant with the higher initiative bonus (the total of one-half your level, your Responsiveness modifier, and any bonuses) goes before the other. If their bonuses are the same, they can roll a die or flip a coin to break the tie.

[Sir Tiamat]

A contest round, like standard DnD combat is made up of actions. Agitating the populace,
Raiding a holding, bribing and official, casting a realm spell—each of these activities, along with many others, is considered an action. You use different action types to do different things. For example, most attack powers are standard actions, and activating your holdings is normally an activate action. (A few powers may not require an action to use.)


THE MAIN ACTION TYPES
✦ Standard Action: Like in regular combat, standard actions are the core of domain combat, or contest. You can normally take one standard action on your turn. Examples: contest powers.
✦ Activate Action: Activate actions involve movement of the regent or lieutenant to a friendly holding in order to activate this holding. This activated holding can thereafter be used as a tool/ weapon to perform standard actions, and will remain activated until another holding is activated. (Note that most powers require a specific type of holding to be activated, whereas some powers require the court holding to be activated) Examples: activate holding, activate court holding, and relocate court.
✦ Minor Action: Minor actions are enabling actions, simple actions that usually lead to more exciting actions. You can normally take them only on your turn. Examples:.
✦ Free Action: Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another contestant’s turn. The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn.
Examples: sending messages.

[Sir Tiamat]

Contest attacks in BIRTHRIGHT take many forms. A warlord's law holding raids a temple. A guilder uses his shady contacts within a guild to assassinate a distant target. A Bishop’s temples agitate against a lord across the land. An Archmage creates a plague, targeting several provinces. These examples illustrate the four attack types: holding, distant, realm, and region.

Holding Attack
A holding attack usually uses an activated holding and targets one other holding within the same province. Some powers allow you to make multiple holding attacks, against either multiple rival holdings or a single rival holding.

HOLDING ATTACK
✦ Targeted: Holding attacks target individual holdings. A holding attack against multiple holdings consists of separate attacks, each with its own attack roll and damage roll.
✦ Range: A holding attack’s range generally does not go beyond the province borders.


Distant Attack
A distant attack is a strike against a distant target. A distant attack usually targets one holding within its range.

DISTANT ATTACK
✦ Targeted: Distant attacks use the activated holding to target single rival holdings outside the province. A distant attack against multiple rival holdings consists of separate attacks, each with its own attack roll and damage roll.
Range: Some powers set a specific range (“Distant 2 provinces”) or allow you to attack any target you can see (“Distant sight”).
Long Range: (perhaps with certain powers)
✦ Provoke Opportunity Attacks: If you use a distant power with a holding that is in the same province as an activated rival holding, that rival can make an opportunity attack against you.


Realm Attack
A realm attack targets a rival holdings over multiple provinces in which you have a holdings. It is a coordinated attack from several of holdings against rival holdings. Often these attacks are specifically aimed at a single rival or single type of holding. Some realm attacks require the court holding to be activated holding.

REALM ATTACK
✦ Area of Effect: A realm attack creates an area of effect consisting of multiple provinces. It is similar to a burst in that it allows you to make an attack with your activated holding in the origin province and with your holdings in all directions to a specified number of provinces from the origin province. A realm attack’s area of effect and targets are specified in its power description.
✦ Multiple Attack Rolls but One Damage Roll:
When you make a realm attack, each of your specified holdings within the area of effect can make a separate attack roll against each target within its province. However, you make a single damage roll that affects all the targets.

Region Attack
Region attacks are similar to realm attacks, except that only the activated holding is used to make attacks. These attacks can even target provinces within the area of effect in which you have no holdings. Often these attacks are specifically aimed at a single rival or single type of holding. Some realm attacks require the court holding to be activated holding.

REGION ATTACK
✦ Area of Effect: A region attack creates an area of effect of multiple provinces, originating in the activated holding’s province and extending in all directions to a specified number of provinces from the origin province.. A region attack affects certain targets within its area of effect, which has a certain size. An area attack’s area of effect and targets are specified in its power description. (Some region attacks allow you to choose which holdings or provinces within the area of effect are affected.)
✦ Origin province: The activated holding unless otherwise specified.
✦ Multiple Attack Rolls but One Damage Roll:
When you make an region attack, you make a separate attack roll against each target in the area of effect, using the single activated holding. However, you make a single damage roll that affects all the target holdings.
✦ Provoke Opportunity Attacks: If you use a region power with a holding that is in the same province as an activated rival holding, that rival can make an opportunity attack against you.

[Rowan]

I would rather call them Actions. I don't like talking about domain level actions as "attacks." Many of them are not, and even Contestation can take forms that are not directly hostile, such as negotiations, acquiring new sources of production, lowering prices, charity programs, etc.

[Shadowbite]

Under initiative, what bonus/penalties would apply for this? Do you mean feats that would give you bonus' in regular combat (improved initiative, quick draw, etc.)? Though if that is what you are talking about, it doesn't make that much sense for some of them as applied to domain actions.

[Sir Tiamat]

Under initiative, what bonus/penalties would apply for this? Do you mean feats that would give you bonus' in regular combat (improved initiative, quick draw, etc.)? Though if that is what you are talking about, it doesn't make that much sense for some of them as applied to domain actions.

I have not yet considered the bonuses or penalties. I was thinking along the lines of roleplaying bonuses/ penalties, so that actions taken in character may effect the domain level of play. I would not apply character feats such as imp. initiative, but I do not want to rule out that a similar feat for the domain level would apply.

[Sir Tiamat]

I would rather call them Actions. I don't like talking about domain level actions as "attacks." Many of them are not, and even Contestation can take forms that are not directly hostile, such as negotiations, acquiring new sources of production, lowering prices, charity programs, etc.

At the moment I intend to use a skill-based system for most domain level actions. Domain attacks only apply to hostile actions that target rival holdings in order to reduce their level or effectiveness.

That said, perhaps attacks is not the best term for contest actions and I will look whether I can find a better term. For now see attacks as a working term, untill we can come up with a better term.
:)

[Sir Tiamat]

example power



Arrest guild members (Lord Attack 2)
Armed guards crack down on common guild members in an attempt to disrupt guild activity.

Seasonal ✦ Martial, Law holding
Standard Action Holding attack
Requirement: You must have an active Law holding.
Target: An enemy guild holding.
Attack: Force vs. …

Hit: 2[Holding] + Force modifier damage, and the target holding generates 1 less GB next season.

[tpdarkdraco]

Sir Tiamat, I think you have some very interesting ideas here. I haven't got the time at the moment to really pick it apart and give you any good feedback as I am concentrating on the adventuring side of 4e conversion at the moment. Keep up the good work though.

[Sir Tiamat]

I have yet to teal with the specifics, but Regency can be spent to deal more damage, increase the chance to hit or create special effects depending on the power. The use of defensive regency would go through utility powers.

We could also rule that there is a standard form of regency expenditure that provides a + to attack or defence and that there are special forms depending on the power.


Arrest guild members (Lord Attack 2)
Armed guards crack down on common guild members in an attempt to disrupt guild activity.

Seasonal ✦ Martial, Law holding
Standard Action Holding attack
Requirement: You must have an active Law holding.
Target: An enemy guild holding.
Attack: Force vs. …

Hit: 2[Holding] + Force modifier damage, and the target holding generates 1 less GB next season.
Regency: 1d6 extra damage per point spent, max 5d6.

[Mirviriam]

On the activate action - don't make it based on the travel/distance factors of one entity (regent/court/lieutenant) ... that should be built in to the length of the round.

Just because you'd have to mount a 'realm defense' in order to respond to being contested more times than you are able to active holdings to defend.

In your description are you saying that the contest action would go until one side or the other is level 0 (or gives up). Or the round over after each hits or misses with attack/spell/agitate once?

It seems like you're thinking of the equivalent of a duel ... how or where do you break in the case that someone else throws down the gauntlet at a later point?

[Mirviriam]

Holding HP:

10/ level, if a holding is reduced to 0 HP it loses one level.

Holding damage:

Small holding, level 0-3: 1d4
Medium holding, level 4-6: 1d6
Large holding, level 7-8: 1d8
Huge holding, level 9-10: 1d10

The idea of the hit dice seems off from a statistics point. This would allow a bigger oppenant to fight many small or medium oppoenants with very good chances of winning even if it is him versus 10 opponents.

IE:
Level 10 holding max of 10x10 = 100 hp
Level 01 holding max of 01x04 = 004 hp
Level 04 holding max of 04x06 = 024 hp

I'm curious too...

How are you dealing with 3 rounds per turn ... would each holding be usable only once for the attack or defense - but the single holding in question takes all the hits if it's not properly defended?

[Sir Tiamat]

All very good questions, and I will take heed of your very usefull problematization when I redo my draft. However I am aafraid that it may take me at least a month before I get around to it. These are hectic times indeed. ;)

[Sir Tiamat]

The idea of the hit dice seems off from a statistics point. This would allow a bigger oppenant to fight many small or medium oppoenants with very good chances of winning even if it is him versus 10 opponents.

IE:
Level 10 holding max of 10x10 = 100 hp
Level 01 holding max of 01x04 = 004 hp
Level 04 holding max of 04x06 = 024 hp

I'm curious too...

How are you dealing with 3 rounds per turn ... would each holding be usable only once for the attack or defense - but the single holding in question takes all the hits if it's not properly defended?


A level 1 holding has 10 hitpoints and deals 1d4 damage.

A level 10 holding would have 100 hp and deal 1d10 damage

The rounds system has not been fully develloped yet, one option is to mirror 4th edition rounds...

[bbeau22]

I like the basic concept of this but man you are adding a bunch of rolling and additonal stats. Wow. Certainly if you like this then awesome.

I would think some holdings are squisher than other and should have less HP. I would think Guild holdings might only have 6 hp per level where is a law holding might have 10. Figure guilds are far more likely to change hands over time. Perhaps they do more damage?

I would certainly copy rounds like a regular combat round. Who ever loses then feels the sting of lost levels .... it is like they duke it out for a month and then the loser suffers the 1d3 level lost like the regular rules would imply.

-BB

[Mirviriam]

Distant attacks will have to be removed.
-You can't break the balance of power that much...you'd have to redesign the campain setting too.
-Distant attacks have no place in holdings contestings - a holding's individual power ends in each province.
-Especially for priests, guilds, law holdings...The only way you could share power between holdings in your system would be if for that entire turn any activated area's generate no RP, GP & the same with all lay lines, trade routes, seaports, etc ran by that holding. (as to transfer power, you need to pick up the personal and move them in to range)
-There is already a distance attack of sorts in 2nd & 3rd Edition: Domain wide representation of the organizations power is RP, lieutenants, and the regent that already exists.

How does regency come in to play for this system too - would a regent with a less holdings be able to pump up his attack/defense/hp by adding RP in to the pool? How do you limit this effect?

One of my other considerations was what kind of sense does it make for this combat to happen with the insurgancy spell being used as a domain spell in 3rd Edition (mass contest)?

If you're going to complicate the system of domain handling...at least do it so it's based on skill and not raw holding power. I'm not talking about skill bonus - I mean smaller weaker powers able to better use the level of provinces they have. Maybe because they have the support of their regent more often & their people are more inspired or whatever.

When ready, try to strip out some more things...leave some of the adjustments for the DM, we don't have to spell out every bonus or penalty. Especially considering that you already have two other systems of combat (battles & pc adventure). Domain turns already take forever - especially for new players & DMs.

Try to maintain what the holding system already has too:

-It limits all actions by locality of the province & those who have holdings in it
-It represents overall power in liuetenants and regency points
-It basically gathers RP & GP in a simple organized method

If you can keep it simple & only use holdings in the province, it would make good varient rules...but if they want to get that involved in attacking that much - maybe they just want to roleplay?