Wizard of Endier

[Thelandrin]

Discussion thread for Wizard of Caine (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Wizard of Caine).

The "Wizard of Caine"? Can that surely be correct in any way? It sounds really very ugly.

[kgauck]

What do you prefer for a domain name?

[Thelandrin]

Well, if the wizard Caine is actually just the latest member of a wizard dynasty, why not simply call the domain: "the Wizard Caine"? Using 'of' like that seems very odd to me.

[kgauck]

What if Caine is a place, where the family started out, or its the name of a region, where the sources are (or where the dynasty started collecting sources)?

[Sorontar]

What if Caine is a title like the Mhor? I suspect we need make some decision on whether 1) there has only ever been one Caine and 2) What Caine means

Do you think we will be Abel to do that?

Sorontar

[Thelandrin]

Well, I'm in favour of Occam's Razor here. Caine could be many things, but the simplest suggestion is that it's the man's name, whether a given name or a dynastic surname. You could presuppose that Caine has Long Life and thus Caine is the same person each time he is mentioned in history, or that it simply refers to each wizard in turn.

All of this is somewhat irrelevant to the issue that Caine is only ever referred to as "Caine", "the Wizard Caine" or "the Wizard of Endier", so why complicate things and suggest that Caine is actually a place?

[kgauck]

Because whatever we call the person (and people don't have only one name) the domain needs a name. Wizard of Caine refers to the domain.

[Sorontar]

The Domain of Caine? That sounds better and less ambiguous to "Wizard of Caine". Deal with it like we do for the White Witch and her domain (Realm of the White Witch).

[kgauck]

I would rather change the White Witch's domain to something that sounds like a place.

Here are the extand wizard domains on the wiki. Taeghas and Ilien aren't included, since their wizard is also a landed regent.

Wizard of the Erebannien
Broken Stave
Silver House
Faelund
Heliomanse
Hermedhie
Wizard of Caine
Mhistecai
Sayer of Coullabhie
Swan Mage
Sword Mage
Undermålsrike
Wizard of Rheulgard

[AndrewTall]

I don't see wizard domains as inherited in any way similar to other domains - frankly the domain could change radically with each new wizard. A temple domain is unlikely to shift its deity, a guild will always be mercantile and a realm seek rulership - but one wizard may be active at court and another concern themselves solely with their own mysteries never to be seen by the realm about them.

As a result I think that a source domain is often dominated not be a house, or a place, but rather by its wizard - so whatever the wizard calls the domain is the name, if they don't call it anything then Caine's domain or some variant is what goes for it - assuming that you would even have a separate page for the domain at all. A bit of a problem for the sorceress of snog but there you go...

This wiki treatment is anomalous compared to other domains where the domain regent has a separate page and the domain has very different issues to the regent, but the difference is inherent in the source domain regime.

That said where domains do have strong traditions, then a fair number of people could form the domain and as such it would have a 'life' beyond simply the wizard - in such a case using a more 'proper' name like Heliomanse has real value.

For Caine, who is not noted as having many servants and for keeping to himself I might try Rookroost or Spider's Watch - one being the name of his tower (I think) and the other a description of one of his key aims.

[Sorontar]

Why not Wizard of Endier, since the bio indicates that he has a strong link to the realm. It is where he resides and what he helps protect. His sources may also be elsewhere but the realm is his prime territorial concern. He may even have been the historical Court Mage.

And the bio in the wiki says Falcon's Roost, not Rook's Roost.

[kgauck]

Any of these work for me.

[Thelandrin]

Rook's Roost is the castle of the Baron of Ghoere. I've moved the page to "Wizard of Endier" and made the couple of word changes necessary.

On another note, is "magiocratic monarchy" really necessary? It's a single wizard ruling sources that are answerable only to him - a monarchy implies divine permission to rule which, beyond bloodlines to start with, is entirely irrelevant. I altered the term to "autocracy", but it's still unnecessarily wordy.

[kgauck]

Monarchy means rule by one person. It implies nothing else. Some domains might not be single persons, such as the College of Sorcery or Three Brothers Mages, which are magiocratic oligarchies. If you would familiarize yourself with the pages on government, you would find that each domain can be described by two terms, the noun term describes how broad governance is, monarchy for one person, oligarchy for several, anarchy for no ruler, and so on. The other term, an adjective, describes what kind of rule it is and in whose interests it serves.

[Thelandrin]

That's fair enough, I suppose. I don't know if it's my years of playing Civilisation or my tendency to spontaneously form associations between concepts (don't ask - it doesn't make a lot of sense!), but I have always distinguished between an autocracy and a monarchy as the difference between someone ruling despotically and beholden to no one (autocracy/dictatorship) and someone ruling with the approval of one's nobles and priests (monarchy). Deo volente, as it were.

I'll change it back, but perhaps a section on magiocracies should be added to the monarchy page, where it is conspiciously absent.

[kgauck]

It has its own page. All of the government terms are linked on the page government. But I can make a Government navigation aid to make these things easier.

[Birthright-L]

At 01:38 AM 2/27/2009, Thelandrin wrote:

>On another note, is "magiocratic monarchy" really necessary? It`s a
>single wizard ruling sources that are answerable only to him - a
>monarchy implies divine permission to rule which, beyond bloodlines
>to start with, is entirely irrelevant.

The problem is more with "monarchy" than "magiocratic",
right? Magiocratic is a bit awkward, but it does seem apt. How
about "magiocratic dictatorship" instead of "monarchy." That might
do away with any hint of royalty that might be associated with
"monarchy" by itself.

Gary

[AndrewTall]

I feel really dim :o 'mono' (one) 'archy' (rule) = monarchy.

Never picked up on it. I blame too much PR about the divine right of kings...