Pirate Realms

[cccpxepoj]

Does anyone have idea how the pirate realms function, in BRCS rules for 3.5 edition ?
There is some explanation in TohW for Yasera Brotherhood bat that is for 2nd edition.

[kgauck]

How do you mean? How do the function organizationally? operationally? financially? socially?

[cccpxepoj]

How do you mean? How do the function organizationally? operationally? financially? socially?
I am talking about game mechanics, what are the benefits of the pirate realm, do their regents need to go "collecting taxes" on sea every season etc.

[kgauck]

From a domain point of view its exactly the same as any other domain. It collects regency and GB based on how many holdings it has.

What is different is fluff. When we talk about what GB, where they came from, and who and why regency is collected.

If you want to go down a layer and ask what is it like to live and work in this domain, I would say, describe pirates. Its a pirate domain. And what the pirates do, produces the RP and GB.

[Sorontar]

Are you implying that a pirate realm can consider part of the ocean as a "province" and that whoever has naval superiority there has a law holding?

Sorontar.

[kgauck]

To whom do you address your query?

[Sorontar]

Anyone and everyone. I haven't read TohW so I don't know what it says, but cccpxepoj's question about "their regents need to go "collecting taxes" on sea", was making me wonder what I was missing.

Sorontar.

[kgauck]

There are no special rules that make the pirate realms any different than a realm that is described in any other way.

Many holdings actually reflect extensive geographical power. Trade, pilgrimages, purchase of relics, all reflect how I can make money in Sorontarsvik from people who live elsewhere. Piracy just applies that principle to piracy. Ships have home ports, the regents who control them live someplace, no matter where the piracy occurs, the benefit for it happens in the province where the holding is.

[bbeau22]

I would add an extra element of taxation to Pirate domains. I don't think the level of the province is indicative of how many people move in and out of the province in a given month. I have always felt that the level of the province still more implies to the regulars that live there.

I really feel the DM needs to step in and create a unique system for different pirate domains. They are not created equal and may tax or get money differently depending on the realm.

An example of the Zweiland Islands. Since many of the pirates actually do live there for 3-4 months out of the year when the bay is ice locked perhaps there is a population swell and bonus on taxes. Many pirates don't live there but use it as a safe haven from various countries they were stealing from. Some sort of grant could be given to the ruler once a year depending on how successful the season was.

In the campaign I am running a characters wants to turn Suiriene into a more pirate like domain. Since the character has extensive use of guilds I am going to have him channel the pirate goods through those guilds and he will have a bonus income from the guilds directly.

-BB

[cccpxepoj]

Anyone and everyone. I haven't read TohW so I don't know what it says, but cccpxepoj's question about "their regents need to go "collecting taxes" on sea", was making me wonder what I was missing.

Sorontar.

Well the TohW suggest that Yousera Brotherhood regent/captain must spend some time on sae, his ships need to go looking for pray( ughh.. legitimate trade) for 2 months in every season, if the captains/regents go with them they earn +1 modifier on their die roll. If the captains don't sail, they suffer -1 penalty on their rolls and finally if the ships don't sail at all domain collection rolls are considered minimum for that season.

Now that sort of rule was never mentioned for other pirate realms on Cerilia (Zweilunds, Grabentod, Mieres, Rjuvik).
I agree that other realms have different geographical location, political situation etc.
Now, Zweilund are genuine pirate realm, they welcome anyone if they share their booty and obey some simple rules.
Mieres and Rjuvik are regular countries who provide safe harbor for pirates for the share of the booty, of course, while trying to hide that from other countries.
Grabentod( the reason i started this thread) is special, their pirates function more as privateers, and the realm is too big and too developed to be just a pirate kingdom. Grabentod raiders have a strong navy ( 6*roundship, 4*keelboat and one cog ) and 9 unites of Grabentod raiders to support the navy and this is all in their posesion after the navies of Muden, Danigau and Zweilunds destroyed most of their ships and captured their King.
My question is, what do pirate realm( in this case Grabentod) gain for preying on the ships of other countries except for bad reputation ???

[AndrewTall]

I'd say that they effectively have trade routes to other countries that would not otherwise trade with them - the trade route in this case being stolen booty. Similarly pirate ships form part of guild or law holdings just as bandits could on land.

Holdings are very broad things, and can represent positive aspects of society (commercial trade, law, universities, cathedrals, etc) or negative things (slavers, banditry, idolatry, etc).

Trade routes represent the typical way that a province 'exceeds' its level in income and regency terms, in the case of a pirate realm you could say that the provinces have trade routes 'to the open sea' with the benefit of nil ship maintenance cost, but the penalty of need to spend 'actions' offshore and diplomatic penalties with neighbours.

[bbeau22]

I'd say that they effectively have trade routes to other countries that would not otherwise trade with them - the trade route in this case being stolen booty. Similarly pirate ships form part of guild or law holdings just as bandits could on land.

Holdings are very broad things, and can represent positive aspects of society (commercial trade, law, universities, cathedrals, etc) or negative things (slavers, banditry, idolatry, etc).

Trade routes represent the typical way that a province 'exceeds' its level in income and regency terms, in the case of a pirate realm you could say that the provinces have trade routes 'to the open sea' with the benefit of nil ship maintenance cost, but the penalty of need to spend 'actions' offshore and diplomatic penalties with neighbours.

I like this idea ALOT! I will use it in my campaign.

Could we even take this a step further and instead of trade routes to the open seas you can have listed which countries or guilds you are taking from. Certainly they will know what you are up to anyway.

[AndrewTall]

I like this idea ALOT! I will use it in my campaign.

Could we even take this a step further and instead of trade routes to the open seas you can have listed which countries or guilds you are taking from. Certainly they will know what you are up to anyway.

Interesting - do you then effectively have a contested action to see who gets the income?

Or could they suffer from your predations in a manner similar to law claims in brcs?

i.e. you have a roving law holding that you can apply to any coastal province which can seize income up to the level of the local trade routes from local holdings?

[bbeau22]

Interesting - do you then effectively have a contested action to see who gets the income?

Or could they suffer from your predations in a manner similar to law claims in brcs?

i.e. you have a roving law holding that you can apply to any coastal province which can seize income up to the level of the local trade routes from local holdings?

I haven't really thought it through. I guess there are a couple of ways to look at it.

- I like the roving law holding. We could even go further and determin the level of the holding by how many ships are attacking a certain trade route. The level of the trade route would be the defense.

The guilds being challenged wouldn't lose money from taxation but from the income of the trade route.

Maybe an even easier way would be a random event roll where the modifiers are the number of ships pirating vs. gold generated. Depending on how successful you get a % of the gold anywhere from 25% to 100% of that trade route.

-BB

[AndrewTall]

The trade route level is more akin to the province level in my view- it sets the income parameters. I'd compare the law holdings friendly to the guilder to the pirate law holding and maybe do a contested role - a good reason for the guilder to make friends with the local law regent!

Not sure how to split the income though, the brcs law claims have a similar issue in that they don't scale with the holding - this was discussed in an earlier thread http://www.birthright.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3870&highlight=law+claim

[cccpxepoj]

how about this, pirates can create a trade route or some kind of link, from province in which he holds law to another province where he can try to contest the trade route, guild or some other source of income ????

[stv2brown1988]

Does anyone have idea how the pirate realms function, in BRCS rules for 3.5 edition ?
There is some explanation in TohW for Yasera Brotherhood bat that is for 2nd edition.

I always liked the Yasera Brotherhood and it's rule for Pirating 2 out of 3 domain actions. But in the game it is too big of a hinderance to always use two of your actions just to get the same money that other regeants get during the collections phase. Unless you either allow the player to control all three characters that head the Brotherhood, or control one with the other two being Lts and allow the Lts to go pirating. Or use the rules for Republics.

I've never got to play any Vos realm and don't hear too much of anyone else playing them either. I wonder why?

Anyway, a long time ago I found some rules for running pirate raids, maybe in the Wiki from this site. I bastardized them some and I'm sure the author of the rules is not credited for their work in the copy I have. If you cannot find them and want a copy let me know. But I did have a thought of playing a Pirate guild in Mieres using these rules in addition to the 2 out of 3 domain actions and awarding some XP based on the results. (To make up for the fact that characters would actually be involved in battles in order to get their money instead of just sending out tax collectors)

Steven

[stv2brown1988]

Of course, instead of thinking Pirates = Guild, you could always say Pirates=Law and get their money by using the Law Holding to grab up to 1d6 GBs per turn from other holdings. This simplifies the book-keeping

Steven

[cccpxepoj]

I always liked the Yasera Brotherhood and it's rule for Pirating 2 out of 3 domain actions. But in the game it is too big of a hinderance to always use two of your actions just to get the same money that other regeants get during the collections phase. Unless you either allow the player to control all three characters that head the Brotherhood, or control one with the other two being Lts and allow the Lts to go pirating. Or use the rules for Republics.
It is quite hindering to lose two domain actions, and it means that any other regent will "push" you out in no time.



I've never got to play any Vos realm and don't hear too much of anyone else playing them either. I wonder why?

I started this thread for some other pirate realm(Grabentod), not yasera brotherhood, but i search for universal rules for pirates in any part of Cerrilia.
People don't play games in Vosgaard cause it was the last sourcebook to come out, it is least developed and there is too many npc, nonhuman domains. Me and my crew like to play it, but it is really hard to play domain level game sessions in Vosgaard, so we use Vos characters in other regions, and there is a measure of savageness and cruelty in Vosgaard, which is not easy to play or too run.
I tried to run one domain game, few months ago, and i couldn't stand for my players, evil belink's fanatics are not fun to play, at least for me.