The New Emperor of Anuire

[Magian]

What would it entail?

I leave this question open in hopes of aiding a current campaign that I am in to come to a conclusion of this issue. Certainly the way specific characters are played should be considered. With many of you without the knowledge of what's going on in the campaign I feel it is impertinent for you to have knowledge of the political climate, because for the most part the candidates are similar to Ruins of Empire and your opinions on true roleplay are very important. I feel as a player in this game that the essence, spirit, and heart of the characters in question are more important to this goal. So feel free to voice what first is compelled by the question above. Whether it even be a matter of character or political climate and the necessities that should arise prior to such an achievement in a campaign or anything else that you can find that may be pertinent to such an issue. I would most humbly and eagerly receive your comments, suggestions, and ideas on this topic and how it makes you feel.

[AndrewTall]

One perspective:

The next emperor? Clearly it will be the man who shrugs off womanly weaknesses such as concerns for lessors and artistry and focuses the passions of Anuire on the path to glory. The next Emperor must clearly be a general beyond peer to unify the nation, one to whom all men bend knee as naturally as they would to their own father. The next emperor will have an iron hand enforcing absolute discipline to avoid wasteful acts by their minions. He will be true to loyal vassals and the embodiment of Haelyn's wrath to those faithless. He will be a warrior beyond peers in battle, defiant in defeat and stern in victory, he will be a planner of great plans and a doer of great deeds, only my liege Ghoere has such qualities without weakening vice.

Baronet Eldred Ghent

[Elton Robb]

One perspective:

The next emperor? Clearly it will be the man who shrugs off womanly weaknesses such as concerns for lessors and artistry and focuses the passions of Anuire on the path to glory. The next Emperor must clearly be a general beyond peer to unify the nation, one to whom all men bend knee as naturally as they would to their own father. The next emperor will have an iron hand enforcing absolute discipline to avoid wasteful acts by their minions. He will be true to loyal vassals and the embodiment of Haelyn's wrath to those faithless. He will be a warrior beyond peers in battle, defiant in defeat and stern in victory, he will be a planner of great plans and a doer of great deeds, only my liege Ghoere has such qualities without weakening vice.

Baronet Eldred Ghent

That leaves the Magian out, then.

[Thelandrin]

Sir Eldred Ghent, Bt., can hardly be expected to have a balanced viewpoint, now can he? :)

[Elton Robb]

Sir Eldred Ghent, Bt., can hardly be expected to have a balanced viewpoint, now can he? :)

Oh I am sure.

[AndrewTall]

Another perspective:

The next emperor? Clearly it will be the man who shrugs off the mindless mantra of might makes right that has crushed any hope of a paragon emerging to unify the warring realms and rule over us these past centuries. He will be a diplomat, an artist, a scholar, a man of rare taste, culture and perception. A man of justice whose law extends fairly across the land, a king whose wisdom separates the wheat from the chaff in his counsel and leads him to victory in all things. In victory he will be magnanimous, in defeat he will be gracious, turning his enemies into allies and thus winning through wit what lesser men would futilely struggle against with mere force. Only my lord, the one true prince of all Anuire, holds all these virtues in goodly measure, and thus to him alone do righteous men look to for sight of the emperor to come.

Count Coradan Daerian

[Elton Robb]

Another perspective:

The next emperor? Clearly it will be the man who shrugs off the mindless mantra of might makes right that has crushed any hope of a paragon emerging to unify the warring realms and rule over us these past centuries. He will be a diplomat, an artist, a scholar, a man of rare taste, culture and perception. A man of justice whose law extends fairly across the land, a king whose wisdom separates the wheat from the chaff in his counsel and leads him to victory in all things. In victory he will be magnanimous, in defeat he will be gracious, turning his enemies into allies and thus winning through wit what lesser men would futilely struggle against with mere force. Only my lord, the one true prince of all Anuire, holds all these virtues in goodly measure, and thus to him alone do righteous men look to for sight of the emperor to come.

Count Coradan Daerian

The Magian should feel insulted.

[Magian]

Wow Elton you are a genius of comedy I wish I was like you.

I would really like to get some constructive comments on this thread please. I am trying to help out a campaign community. Thanks.

[irdeggman]

A path which lead to the Iron Throne since only Anuire recognizes an emperor and that revolves around the IT.

[ArchScarlettie]

I think the genuine religious overtones should not be overlooked in the idea of a new emperor. Haelyn promised to support the first Reole (his own brother, even) only if he tried to bring a lasting peace to Cerilia. While it is true Haelyn's faith is by no means absolute, or even dominant throughout all of Anuire, he is still the patron of his people. Being a Lawful and both Good deity, that should explain a lot about what he would seek in such a person. The Chamberlain also, should be heavily considered. Several times in old core material it speaks of his devotion to Haelyn, and I think that would enforce and even sterner and more immediate judgement on someone who would claim the throne(as he can use the political arena - playing the ArchDuke and the Prince against one another and seeing them both as unfit comes to mind).

As one final thought, the major awnsheghlien should also be heavily considered. The Gorgon, for obvious reasons as having caused the demise of the last empire as well as the last emperor, who also himself could arguably claim a place on the throne - Rhoubhe himself as he was contained by the emperor and probably would not wish to be so again - and the Spider, whom probably would not wish to again be cornered in his wood by a united human land. Thoughtfully, I would think that all would take notice, awnseghlien, nobles, other regents, and all would act to protect their own interests...

[Capricia]

In the PBEM I am currently helping with I am playing the Chamberlain, and I had hoped to name an emperor this game. (its been running 10 months so far) Sadly none of the PC realms have managed to convey the leadership, integrity and proper respect for Haelyn that are required to be selected.

This game also would require the Chamberlain's choice being ratified by a 2/3 majority vote by the 12 Ducal Houses too.

To me, in order to get selected for emperor the candidate must have the respect of his peers, the ability to lead and get other's to follow him without causing further ruptures within the empire. He (or she) cannot be weak of character, been caught doing anything truly evil, or taken actions that stand counter to the welfare of the Empire. Haelyn is the patron god of Anuire, and a proper respect for those who speak in his name is really important as well.

OOC In PBEM's at least the player who is selected needs to have ample time and the willingness to play the part, because frankly it can be a great deal of work and is often challenging. (at least that's been my experience and observation.)

[Archduke_of_Diemed]

The Next emperor would have to have done a majority of the following:

Have a powerful realm, close to the imperial city (9+ provinces, 60+GB, at least one 5+ province)
Made numerous alliances/diplomatic arrangements that would thwart the big two
possibly an alliance by marrying Avan's Daughter//Removing Gavin Taele
Resolving realm disputes that would gain you supporters for the Throne.
Tuornen-Alamie//Returning Moergen to Osoerde//Killing the Chimaera//Somehow Trapping the Spider (since you cant kill him)//Assisting Mhoried with their eastern border.
Garnered some reknown by finding a lost imperial vestment(i.e Anduiras Sieghshel)

If one of your players has done this he the most likely to be the emperor.

[Magian]

Pertinent threads that I feel give some good ideas to help out.

* True King - Legendary Class
* the emperor returns!!!
* Roele`s sword

True King - Legendary Class : the class isn't necessary but this post does spark some interesting ideas as to what could be used to flesh out and temper a new Emperor.

the emperor returns!!! : gives some ideas not covered in this very similar thread.

Roele`s sword : building along the lines of Arthurian myth perhaps this sword and what it entails politically could be one key in many on the road to a new Emperor.

[Green Knight]

One idea (that I don't really like, and will never use, but it's still a good one) relates to the Roele bloodlines and the Land's Choice:

Michael the Last (or Michael the Silly, your choice) may have 'grounded' his bloodline, preventing the Gorgon from usurping it.

Perhaps a primising candidate for the Iron Throne could be invested with this bloodline, giving him a very legitimate (it's divine blood after all, gotta count for something) claim.

This should not be easy of course, the aspiring Emperor must first forge a powerful domain, be a true champion of Haelynic virtue, get hold of some Roele artifacts etc. etc. (many good adventures in here) and maybe even sneak into the Crown to retrieve the bloodline (or confront and defeat the Gorgon to get it - sorta depends on the power level of the campaign).

Having a great (or perhaps true, depends on the DM, I'd go with great) bloodline of Anduiras (Roele) wouldn't secure the Empire in itself, but might be what is needed to overcome the last obstacles.

[Magian]

If you were in the role of playing a regent within Anuire whether it be a Duke of the empire, non-landed regent, supporter of a claimant of the Irone throne, or a Claimant of the Iron Throne, what would it take for you to support a new emperor other than yourself?

Outside of Anuirean campaigns this question may be perceived as irrelevant, though as this particular setting is the most prominent setting that is used, I think it a very pertinent question to be answered by roleplayers in order to keep this setting alive, let alone this website. So to let it slide by the way side due to the unpopularity of the poster's views on a certain character, even though admittedly so, those same views are presented in such as they are by the consumption of the roleplayer and the inside perspective of the character that they have been consumed by, are not one in the same. Yet the self proclaimed loud mouths of this current community would rather for ego-sake crush those more creative and less eloquent and articulate on the matters of the setting be crushed and thereby disappear cause through passion of posting they are offended. I say in response to this short sightedness, "Fuck your ego, and fuck your intellect, cause you have no place here when creativity is called for in order to keep this community alive." Therefore I believe most passionately even if most post-hastily that this question must once again be addressed, for less of this community cares about the more active and dry wiki items that keep this place going that new and active, even if old ideas of what we can do if we actually choose to play this game.

Make fun of me and my passions for the characters that I may allow to consume my posts, but don't let that deter you from contributing to the lifeline of this community.

So what say you? What would make you support someone else playing in either a pbem, pbp, or face to face campaign that you are currently in regardless of all your political stances as a character?

Forgive my passion, for I am but a roleplayer and not an intellect of history, structure of gaming balance as many of you who frequent this place. In submission to that respect I say that beware those who so easily dismiss passion as mere drunkardly rantings, for from such things worlds are born.

[Green Knight]

See my post above; additionally:

1. The blood of Roele would be required IMO (or at the very leas a MAJR boon) - Avan and Boeruine both stake their claim on the Iron Throne by virtue of their ancestry.

2. So unless the would-be-Emperor somehow has the blood of Roele (unlikely?) then the above post regarding the Land's Choic is an attractive option.

3. Several play styles are possible, but it would be beneficial for one player to be the would-be-Emperor and the others to support his quest for the throne.

4. By extension - it probably would not be enough to merely gather political power in terms of lands and vassals; temple support would be required, as well as magical and economical.

5. So why not have the temple player try to rebuild the Imperial Temple, the wizard re-create the power of the CoS etc.? Fun for the other players also.

6. Even if starting without a Roele bloodline, it would be beneficial to be from a major and respected House - Diem, Alam, Mhor...maybe not Boeruine and Avan since they are already so deep into the quest for the Iron Throne.

7. The would-be-Emperor needs to build a mighty kingdom with many provinces and strong and loyal vassals. Be a paragon of Anuirean nobility and Haelynic virtue.

8. Adventure to gain levels and show personal courage - and maybe gain some trappings of the old Empire; i.e. Sword of Roele, Imperial Crown etc.

9. While personally powerful and the lord of a mighty kingdom and with friends (other PC playing temples, mages, vassals/allies etc.) in high places, the would-be-Emperor can't be a despot. He must he first among equals and show that he's reforging the Empire because it's his birthright and the right thing to do, rather than merely a personal power trip. And so he secures friends and allies in strange (and not so strange) places.

10. Dealing with the Gorgon is required. He won't truly be Emperor before that. If the campaign climax is the Crowning, then defeating the Gorgon could be a nice ending. Otherwise - perhaps more fulfilling - is being crowned, and then getting world of a massive Gorgonic invasion. Not only will the Emperor have to deal with this external threat, but there will of course be betrayals and rebellions...

11. Once that is dealt with...Anuire has a new Emperor of Roele...and is ready to reclaim its place!

Oh, and stop whining...you can't DEMAND that people agree with you, nor post replies to your topics...

[Green Knight]

Other options are getting rid of the past altogether and looking for something NEW to bring about an era of greatness.

Perhaps Anuire as a theocracy. Perhaps a cabal of Mages. Perhaps the wealth of the growing middle class (read guilds). Perhaps a party of heroes so epically heroic that they can create and Empire from scratch. Perhaps a dark Anuire under the Gorgon's heel?

Options are endless.

[AndrewTall]

If you were in the role of playing a regent within Anuire whether it be a Duke of the empire, non-landed regent, supporter of a claimant of the Irone throne, or a Claimant of the Iron Throne, what would it take for you to support a new emperor other than yourself?


The ability possibly to be 'all things to all men'. The various power factions must agree - willingly or otherwise - that the person be their emperor, whether for the short or long term.

In a time of prosperity this would be very difficult - every noble, flush with funds and power would desire to maximise their gains, temples would ponder theocracy, mages would ponder rule by 'the wise'. Prosperity equates to energy in a weather system to a degree - the more energy, the more motion is chaotic and prone to storms.

In a time of poverty, few can exert power beyond their immediate vicinity, so it is also difficult for an empire to reform.

Perhaps the best time would be shortly after a major riving, many of the 'usual suspects' would be weakened - the Mhor and Ghoere would likely be destroyed, although if Ghoere sided with the Gorgon they might well emerge stronger than before. Avan, Boeruine, etc would almost certainly have drained themselves sending troops to fight the Gorgon (a would-be emperor can hardly stand by and do nothing), as such if anyone outside of the usual suspects ever has a shot at the crown now would be the time. Battered peasants might well turn to someone - anyone - who promised them a return to prosperity.


A marriage between Avan and Boeruine that actually endured with minor lines being suppressed somehow - the combined entity could absorb Taeghas (which should be having succession issues shortly anyway) and other realms as it grew over time - it would hit critical mass to dominate soon enough. The Alternative to Avan / Boeruine would be Ghoere eating up the southern coast in the wake of a war between Osoerde and a neighbour that left both weakened.

[kgauck]

The central question is why would anyone accept a dependent relationship with an overlord. Why would an otherwise powerful lord accept a superior whose new office would reduce him from being sovereign, master unto himself, to a dependent, one duke in a much larger empire?

Marc Bloch wrote a pair of books called Feudal Society, and book 1 was growth of ties of dependence. It attempts to answer the question, why would lords accept overlords. How could Charlemagne unify separate kingdoms of Austrasia, Neustria, Burgundy, and Aquitaine, and then to add new lands in northern Italy, Franconia, Bavaria, and Saxony?

First he describes how Europe was under threat, Magyar, Saracen, and Viking attacks that local lords could not deal with. Profound disorder was the result with a decline in trade, prosperity, and the control that lords themselves had. Its like constant invasion was producing the pillage effect, reducing law holdings, guild holdings, and temple holdings as province levels drop with the pillage. Magyars from the east, Saracens from the south, Vikings from the north.

If Anuire is mostly static, with province levels, province control, mostly the same from year to year, then no one would give up their freedom and autonomy without fierce resistance. But if vast Gorgonic armies, constant elf wars not only Rhuobhe, but gheillie Sidhe armies allied with him coming out of Sielwode, Tuarhievel, and Rhuobhe, perhaps some betrayal of half-elves going over to Rhuobhe's side, the Spider breaking out and attacking Ghoere, Diemed, Roesone, and Medoere, maybe pushing further as well. Wars between realms and domains. At least enough to realms and domains can't turn to one another for mutual support. Goblins and other monstrous attacks from every quarter plausible.

Not all at once, not coordinated by a central evil, not necessarily. That would be a pretty dire situation, but I don't think its necessary. Just that all of this is the normal stuff that happens.

Take Mhoried. The province 3's drop to 2's, then to 1's. Even Bevaldruor gets pillaged, and the Mhor realizes he has no control beyond Bevaldruor and wonders how long he can defend Bevaldruor. His income dwindles, treasury declines, RP gone. Goblins from Thurazor, the Five Peaks , or even Markazor start wintering in the northern provinces.

Its not much better in Alamie, Elinie is facing goblins from Markazor and elves from Sielwode. Ghoere thinks it can pick up the pieces after your gone, or maybe Ghoere just thinks it needs to keep its army full and treasury stocked for the inevitable trouble that will come. In any event, Mhoried is alone.

Now, suppose that Aeric Boeruine's son marries Aubrae Avan, both houses put aside their rivalry and put their future in the hope from a grandson who can wear the iron throne. Darien Avan and Aeric Boeruine agree on their roles. Prince Darien will be Imperial Chancellor, Archduke Aeric will be Imperial Marshal. Darien makes a diplomatic push to bring the realms together, to Ghoere to get them to link up with Elinie and Mhoried, to Tuornen and Alamie to work together for mutual defense. Aeric Boeruine commands the united armies of Boeruine and Avanil, along with auxiliaries, faces any one of the major threats, the Spider, Rhuobhe, or the Gorgon, and if they are successful in pulling the realms together, defeating these threats enough to send them back to domancy ...

if you were Mhoried, Elinie, or Alamie, would you accept that Darien had claims on your treasury and Aeric on your soldiers? That their grandson would be your Emperor?

I'm not sure anyone wouldn't.

[Brin]

I tend to agree, Kenneth. Anuire's nobles have had well over 500 years of independence from central authority. Five centuries is a very, very long time and the Dukes of "today" rule as if they were kings. I think it would take a lot more than someone claiming descent from Roele and an ancient artefact or two in order to persuade them to give up the autonomy that their families have enjoyed for century and century.

Without the ongoing threats outlined by Kenneth above grinding down the collective empire, if there is a tendency towards centralisation, I suspect it would tend more towards what is often seen in many pbems - a situation where you end up with three or four power blocks within the Empire. In this scenario, Avanil has it's power block, Boeruine likewise, some of the 'independents' in the east form a loose alliance to counter Ghoere or Osoerde (or both). As long as these groupings can satisfy the security needs of their members, then there isn't really any incentive to reform the empire, give up their autonomy and accede to having someone over them.

[Magian]

Yeah that seems to be a major factor Brin and Ken. I totally agree and I guess the way its set up in ROE and our current campaign its pretty much as you've said with the slight twist that no faction claiming the throne will give up on it either let alone bowing down to an overlord.

[irdeggman]

If you were in the role of playing a regent within Anuire whether it be a Duke of the empire, non-landed regent, supporter of a claimant of the Irone throne, or a Claimant of the Iron Throne, what would it take for you to support a new emperor other than yourself?

Well the first time we played BR - I ran a paladin of Haelyn with minor regency (temples).

The regent of Roesone (a PC) and been "our" leader and over the course of many adventures my PC had come to beleive that haelyn had chosen him for some great purpose. How else could he have survived the encounters we had had and done the things he had?

Now when he joined in backing Avan for his claim to the Iron Throne (after a great war that Avan had backed the PC on by the way - defeating Ghoere) my PC was in a great quandry. He had beleived that the PC was chosen but when he backed someone else it just didn't seem right to him. Didn't matter that the strength of the PC's bloodline was only a low major. still he supported his choice since he was a paladin of Haelyn after all.

Now in the game I ran the Iron Throne was not claimed although the PCs did recover the Sword of Roele. IMO something like that is highly symbolic for the Anuirean people and would carry a lot of weight.

[Rowan]

I have always expected that the main way a new Emperor would come to power is if a powerful realm and lord were positioned well during a time of great hardship--much as Ken has outlined. It seems to me that the primary reason that the Gorgon has not attempted a major war and land grab is that he himself would be a catalyst for the rebirth of the Empire, as the only way to stop him might be to unite behind a powerful leader.

Once there is an emperor, the Gorgon might try to break him immediately, just test him, or (more likely IMO) work behind the scenes to sow chaos and division that will tear the Empire apart again, whether in the current generation or one in the future.

As for uniting in peace time and during prosperity, there IS a way, I think. First you'd have to have the would-be emperor proving his valor, wisdom, fairness, and faithfulness to Haelyn and Imperial ideals. In peacetime especially, his lineage would indeed matter. He'd need to forge the most powerful faction within the empire, and may even need to win a major victory (likely militarily, though that wouldn't be the only way) over one or more rival factions.

Then you'd have to convince the independent rulers to submit themselves to an overlord after 500 years--as has been pointed out. To do that, the emperor could indeed offer a few things of worth:
1. Security from the scourge of traditional awnsheghlien and foes, if possible

2. A higher place in the new Empire--the newer realms and bloodlines will likely suffer in this equation, as the Dukes would most likely need to be elevated again and given control over larger areas, even if the other states continue to exist as vassal states under their administration. For instance, a marriage or two into the Imperial Family would be necessary for some of the big four (Boeruine, Avanil, Ghoere, Mhoried). Diemed and Aerenwe would likely split the Southern Coast. Ghoere would be elevated to an archduchy. Coeranys would get Cariele and a chunk of Dhoesone back, or the Chimaeron. Mhoried and Elinie would get special official positions as guardians of the East, with command over large Imperial armies and the funding of fortifications and province level increases all along their borders with Markazor (and for Elinie, LPA accepted officially into the Empire). Alamie would likely get Tuornen back, or split it with Boeruine. Brosengae would likely get Taeghas back, or split it with others. If William is restored to Osoerde by Imperial power that might be sufficient for that realm. These sorts of things leave the duchies as the big winners.

3. There would likely need to be the promise of greater future gains. This would likely require opening up areas to further colonization, secured by Imperial troops; and conquest of other areas of Cerilia (with the great supporting Houses seeing the primary gains).

4. If the rising "middle class" is a theme in the game, a coalition of powerful guilds could be instrumental in the reforming of the Empire, without whose aid it may be impossible. Powerful guilds could back a claimant, gaining guarantees of trade in the process, and promising wealth to the nobility that supports the reformation of the Empire. They could threaten to not pay any taxes if they didn't get their way, provided they were powerful enough to back up that threat.

5. A reconstituted Imperial Temple could go a long way towards establishing a new Empire, depending on whether or not it is united enough and powerful enough to get involved more heavily in politics. Certainly the very fact of its reconstitution would make a new Empire more likely, more attractive, in the minds of the nobles and the people than it might otherwise be. If the temples chose to intervene to settle the issue, they may be able to get the Chamberlain to nominate one or more claimants and thus force a vote or series of votes. The Imperial Temple could then choose to back the apparent winner and enforce that through agitation and political and spiritual pressure throughout the Empire, censuring those who oppose the decision and refusing to pay taxes or aid them.

6. If standard 3.x rules are used, high level wizards are so powerful that PCs above 17th level (or above 20th, if you go epic) could likely slay or intimidate or subjugate enough other wizards to gain such a network of sources and vassal wizards that either a claimant could be quite effectively supported, or the wizard(s) could, through magical charms and such, virtually re-create the Empire themselves. This would end up being more of a tyranny, but hey.

[cyrano24100]

The only time I ever got close to playing/roleplaying a situation where a "New Emperor" was chosen it was because Anuire was in danger of being over-run by the Gorgon/goblins -- they had taken over Mhoried and Ghoere (never let a player play the Gorgon... especially a good player).
The other three guys quickly elected an Emperor (Diem, almost as natural choice since I had Avan and Boeruine as NPC... ) the players had to convince most anuirean rulers to organize around their resistance and that was a great game. We then had some players including the Gorgon quit, and that changed the overall dynamic; the last two players got greedy and by that time they were way to high level to keep the game fun.

[irdeggman]

The only time I ever got close to playing/roleplaying a situation where a "New Emperor" was chosen it was because Anuire was in danger of being over-run by the Gorgon/goblins -- they had taken over Mhoried and Ghoere (never let a player play the Gorgon... especially a good player).
The other three guys quickly elected an Emperor (Diem, almost as natural choice since I had Avan and Boeruine as NPC... ) the players had to convince most anuirean rulers to organize around their resistance and that was a great game. We then had some players including the Gorgon quit, and that changed the overall dynamic; the last two players got greedy and by that time they were way to high level to keep the game fun.

Let me see

You had the Gorgon being played as PC and Avan and Boeruine as NPCs?

No wonder things worked that way.