PDA

View Full Version : Masetian Culture



Chaindog
03-21-2008, 09:39 PM
The major cultures all correspond to earth type cultures (Anuirian - Anglo and Germanic), Brecht (Italian/Spanish), Vos (Slavs) etc. Is there any information on what the Masetian culture is like (I'm guessing Egyptian) as opposed the the more Arabian knights type Arabs? I've been unable to find anything except very vague references.

kgauck
03-21-2008, 10:59 PM
If you want Masetians to be parallel to the other people, they should be Persians. I tend to see the Masetians as Persian and the Basjari as Egyptian, and their combined culture seems more Arabic, but is as Persian as I need it to be to create parallels.

Rowan
03-22-2008, 05:01 AM
I thought the Masetians seemed more Phoenician, possibly even Greek.

kgauck
03-22-2008, 07:31 PM
I tend to think about the Persians because they will have the same religious and cultural ideas (at some length and with local adaptations) as the rest of cultural analogs bring to the Rjurik, Brecht, Anuireans, and Vos. Certainly as far as having a sea-going nature, the Phoenicians are useful. But from a cultural-religious standpoint, they are pretty alien from the rest of their fellows, and I'd rather the foreign elements be associated with the Basjari.

bbeau22
03-22-2008, 08:55 PM
Belive it or not I have been using Native American as their culture. Obviously I had to put a twist that they had the ability to sail well but their beliefs and way of life is Native American.

I just got the vibe from the Serpent adventure in the Legends of the Hero-Kings that they were one with nature. On the sea or on the land.

I am probably pretty far off base, but hey, I can create what i want. All of the ruins I have been using look like old Aztec ruins.

-Brian

kgauck
03-22-2008, 10:34 PM
I just got the vibe from the Serpent adventure in the Legends of the Hero-Kings that they were one with nature.
This is, I think, a theme of the setting, not just of the Masetians. People, at their best, are one with nature. At their worst, they destroy it. Add a third axis to the alignment chart.

As such, I have seen the Sidhe as the best analog to American Indians, not only because their stone age naturalism is bound to surpass mere Celtic iron age naturalism, but also because of the theme of natives displaced from their land fits them as well.

Of course inspiration can be drawn from any source, there are no right answers here.

Capricia
03-23-2008, 05:13 PM
The major cultures all correspond to earth type cultures (Anuirian - Anglo and Germanic), Brecht (Italian/Spanish), Vos (Slavs) etc. Is there any information on what the Masetian culture is like (I'm guessing Egyptian) as opposed the the more Arabian knights type Arabs? I've been unable to find anything except very vague references.

This is an Excerpt of an Interview with Rich Baker: I think you might find his descriptions of the main races of Anuire helpful. He doesn't mention the Masetian culture, however you can get a better idea of what the influence for the others were and extrapolate from there.

Question :

The Human cultures of Cerilia are a real part of what makes it distinctive. Even without ability score modifications, they seem to ooze of a specific feel and attitude. They also seem to emulate specific real world cultures. Can you expand on this and touch on each Cerilian culture and any real world influences you had when designing them, and why you chose these specific influences?

Rich:

Well, there aren’t many secrets here. The Anuireans are more or less based on medieval France, with a strong resemblance to the political patchwork of the Holy Roman Empire (or German Empire) of the 13th to 15th century. They’re actually the most fictional of the human nationalities, since the Anuirean language and names are basically made up from material I developed a very long time ago in one of my first attempts at world-building.
The Brechtur are inspired by the Hanseatic League, the Dutch, and the mercantile city-states of the Italian peninsula. (The Hanseatic League is a pretty interesting piece of European history that most Americans have never heard of, by the way; it’s worth reading up on.) Call it northern Europe of the 14th to 16th century.
The Khinasi resemble Moorish Spain of the 12th to 14th century, with a dash of Ottoman Turkey in places like Khourane and Aftane. (The great sea-battle won by El-Arrasi against the Anuirean fleet is Lepanto in reverse.) There’s a sense of tolerance, learning, and civilization present in Khinasi that is unknown in the other lands. The Khinasi place-names generally come from north and west Africa, changed by a letter or two.
The Rjurik have a sort of strange Viking-highland Scot-native American mix, with a strong emphasis on the Viking part. Some of the more densely settled and long-established kingdoms (Halskapa, for instance) bear a strong resemblance to Denmark of the 12th to 13th century. I borrowed place-names from Norway, Sweden, and Finland for the Rjurik, changing a letter here and a syllable there to give them new twists.
The Vos are based on Russia and eastern Europe of the Dark Ages (say, the 9th to 11th centuries), with a patchwork of nomadic tribes, some Slavic, some Turkic. Peoples like the Pechegi and Polovtsians (forgive my spelling if I got ‘em wrong) are very Vos, as are races like the Bulgars and the Serbians. The language is very Russian, derived in much the same manner as the Khinasi and Rjurik names. You’ll notice that the Alexander Nevsky story is one of the first things we tell you about the Vos, although we changed the names to protect the innocent.
Why’d we do this? The short answer, I guess, is to increase the «realism» of the setting. One common tongue and culture for all humans everywhere feels kind of odd in a fantasy world, so we looked for a good example of many cultures in close proximity. Europe’s real history gave us all the inspiration we needed.

ThatSeanGuy
03-23-2008, 05:54 PM
As far as Masteans go, I'd say they're left as a question mark for the DM for the usual, "More story options that way." reason. Looking at what Mastean-like holdings there are, though, I'd definately make them more Hellenic, which certainly could include Egyptian elements pretty easily.

But that's just, like, my opinion man.

Green Knight
03-24-2008, 07:08 PM
Depends on how civilized you want the older civilizations to be. To me the Masetians seems fairly advanced, along the lines of one of the greater civilizations of ancient times. They were great sea-farers and colonizers...which could fit both the greek and phoenician cultures. Persians were not unfamiliar with the ocean either, indeed they used both their rivers and the sea extensively, but regardless theirs was a vast land-based empire...not an ocean-based colonial one.

ThatSeanGuy
03-24-2008, 08:13 PM
Which is the issue, to me. The Masteans's patron was the goddess of the sea, wasn't she?

kgauck
03-24-2008, 10:00 PM
I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.

from a definition of "hat":
A culture with a single defining characteristic. Everybody is a robot, or a coward, or happy, or sad, or a gangster, or a proud warrior, or a corrupt corporate executive, or is a seafarer. That single defining characteristic is the hat they wear.

Brecht are merchants, Rjurik are vikings, Anuireans are knights, and so on.

The fact that a people is seafaring is only trait, and shouldn't be the only hat the Khinasi get to wear. If we devised a list of traits, Phoenicians would make them a pretty odd fit. For instance, unlike the Persians, who revered a sun god who brought enlightenment, the Phonecians principle deity was a mother goddess.

Lifesbane
03-24-2008, 11:58 PM
I have always seen them as somewhat Phoenician as well.

Given that their settlements were in the same area as the Khinasi and they are not credited with war with the Khinasi I have always seen them as somewhat more tolerant of diversity than the other Adurian races that came to Cerilia.

Green Knight
03-26-2008, 06:36 AM
I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.

f

Me too. I don't want Anuireans to be French knights or Holy Roman peasants and townsfolk!

But at the same time all of the cultures draw some inspiration from human cultures. And I have no problem envisioning the Masetians as something that could have come from the Med and surrounding areas in ancient times. A little Greek, a little Phoenician and a little Persian perhaps.

kgauck
03-26-2008, 08:59 AM
Of course they need some inspiration. Its too much to expect that DM's will invent cultures from whole cloth. But we should not define cultures by a single characteristic. In this case, there are useful things to be garnered from the Phonecians, but that culture will have limitations and others sources of inspiration will be beneficial to round out some of the other aspects of the Masetians.

ThatSeanGuy
03-26-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, I don't recall saying 'Just Phonecians' so much as, 'I personally take more from the Hellenistic era, including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others, largely because of the Psuedo Greco-Latin sounding names of the remaining Mastean cities, and the Serpent being depected like a pharoah.'.

Well I added that last bit with the Serpent.

Anyway, whatever. Express an opinion, get snapped at.

The Swordgaunt
03-26-2008, 08:52 PM
The Brechtur are inspired by the Hanseatic League, the Dutch, and the mercantile city-states of the Italian peninsula.

That is exactly how I have portrayed the Brecht in my campaigns. Living in a Hanseatic city, I must say they have been more Dutch/German than Italian.

*back to topic*

I have always imagined them as a Persian culture with strong Mediterranean connotations. However, as they have never been visited by any of my players, I have not given them a lot of thought.

The Swordgaunt
03-26-2008, 09:11 PM
I'd rather that none of the peoples of Cerilia are reduced to wearing a hat.

I found I had to comment on that one, after all.

On stereotypes-

They are vital tools that enables the human mind to relate to cultures and people that have customs different to ourselves. Everybody has stereotypes. Let me just illustrate this. I'm from Norway. Most of you have never been here, many of you have never met a Norwegian, and a few of you might not have any idea were Norway is. Still, all of you will have at least a few ideas about what Norwegians look like - perhaps you think I'm tall and blond? You might have a picture in your head of what you believe my country looks like.

These pictures are stereotypes, and they help you relate to me, as a Norwegian. I have several of my own, about Chinese, English, Germans and most other cultures and sub-cultures I have ever heard of. It does not mean that by using a stereotype, I reduce the person to a hat. As long as I am aware that my picture of a Chinese is just that, my own stereotypical association, I can expand on it with every piece of information about China and those who live there.

This is why I make a point of anchoring all roleplaying cultures I use, regardless of the game, in real-world cultures. It helps me expand it, and it gives my players a place to begin relating to it. If you let a Viking-culture become just the stereotypical image of a bearded berserker who enjoys nothing but rape, battle and strong mead, you have done yourself a great disservice.

I might have interpreted the hat-comment a little too narrowly, but I'll take the risk of a slagging.

kgauck
03-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Well, I don't recall saying 'Just Phonecians' so much as, 'I personally take more from the Hellenistic era, including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others, largely because of the Psuedo Greco-Latin sounding names of the remaining Mastean cities, and the Serpent being depected like a pharoah.'.

Well I added that last bit with the Serpent.

Anyway, whatever. Express an opinion, get snapped at.

You not only didn't say "just Phonecians" you didn't say Phonecians at all. You said:

I'd definately make them more Hellenic, which certainly could include Egyptian elements pretty easily.

There is a world of difference between "including the Greeks, Egyptians, and others" and saying that because of a single quality, the best analog is a historical culture most familair for this same single quality. So I would have thought it was very clear that my objection to "just Phonecians" wasn't aimed at you.

ThatSeanGuy
03-26-2008, 10:03 PM
Hrm.

Dag, you're right. I thought I put Phonecians there. My bad, man, and I apologize. I posted just before yours, and it sort of threw me off, is all!

Anyway, back on topic a bit: Does anyone use the Serpent? I know Aniure seems the most popular region, and Khinasi's a little chaoticly designed anyway, but he seems like such a cool villain.

kgauck
03-26-2008, 10:14 PM
If you let a Viking-culture become just the stereotypical image of a bearded berserker who enjoys nothing but rape, battle and strong mead, you have done yourself a great disservice.

All Rjurik are beserkers is putting a hat on them, using the Viking culture as an analog is not. Vikings offer rich and diverse possibilities, certainly much more so than making everyone a berserker and stopping there.

If a culture has a hat, every member of that culture has one defing quality. That might be OK the first time we encounter them, but once we get in a position to start comparing several different people of that culture, its nice when we can tell them apart.

geeman
03-26-2008, 11:30 PM
At 01:52 PM 3/26/2008, The Swordgaunt wrote:

>>The Brechtur are inspired by the Hanseatic League, the Dutch, and
>>the mercantile city-states of the Italian peninsula.
>
>That is exactly how I have portrayed the Brecht in my campaigns.
>Living in a Hanseatic city, I must say they have been more
>Dutch/German than Italian.

Italian in the mercantile sense, perhaps, but not culturally in
particular. I could see 13th century Venice as an inspiration.

>I have always imagined them as a Persian culture with strong
>Mediterranean connotations. However, as they have never been visited
>by any of my players, I have not given them a lot of thought.

"Persian" is one of those things that`s hard to nail down since that
region of the world has been a crossroads for so long. In one
aspect, though, I think that works in our favor since Masetian can
and should be a sort of mythological construct in the "modern" world
of Cerilia, particularly given their role as a vanished culture. I
like most of the Mediterranean emphasis, and would even suggest
Carthage as a good example for the theme of the culture. At least,
in the same way that Venice relates to the Brecht, Carthage relates
to the Masetians....

Gary

kgauck
03-26-2008, 11:46 PM
Italian in the mercantile sense, perhaps, but not culturally in
particular. I could see 13th century Venice as an inspiration.

I think politically as well. Looking at Florentine, Venetian, or Genoese politics, government, the influence of merchants on government structure and policy, and intrigues are good as well. That may be what you meant, but I wanted to be clear that we're not just talking guilds, but how to organize a society lead by merchants in a model in addition to the Hanseatic model.

I also like to use Italians as an inspiration for Anuire's south coast.

The Swordgaunt
03-27-2008, 12:30 AM
At least, in the same way that Venice relates to the Brecht, Carthage relates to the Masetians....


That I'll buy. But, and I must admit that Brechtur has always been a fringe-territory for me, to what extent do they rely on mercenaries? Both the Italians and the Hanseatic employed hired armies for most of their wet-work. Perhaps a separate thread should be put up for this topic, as the heading here says "Maesetian"...

As for the Persian background, I was thinking along the lines that the pre-Deismar Maesetian culture was Persian-inspired, whereas the centuries that has passed since has mixed this with Anuirean ideals. This would go hand in hand with a Cartage-theme, I believe.

The thing that makes this kind of cultural definition both difficult and rewarding is that the RL-references has to blend with the IG-facts as we know them. It is a bit like laying a rather complex mosaic at times - if successful, it is amazing, if not, it becomes a clutter of colours that distort the intended picture.

lt_murgen
03-10-2009, 12:03 AM
You are welcome to critique my strawman for Khinasi culture. It is rather involved.

http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Khinasi_culture

in the D&D 3.5 section, there is a comments thread