Working On The Atlas

[ThatSeanGuy]

Hey!

I'm a little confused with how things are organized here. Hopefully a few questions aren't out of line!

1) How organized is the Atlas project? Are you guys waiting to finish the 3.5 conversion before detailing the setting, or working on it in tandem?
2) Regarding the Atlas; are you intending to have a 'basic' list and more extensive domain secrets, or just do each domain in detail?
3) Are you all starting just in Anure or would, hypothetically, someone interested in laying the groundwork for Rujirk or Bretchur have something to do?
4) How do you get involved in this? Is there a place to say, "Hey, I want to convert the Druid class, or do some setting work.", are assignments handed out, or is it more, "Whoever wants to do X, do it."?

[kgauck]

1) How organized is the Atlas project? Are you guys waiting to finish the 3.5 conversion before detailing the setting, or working on it in tandem?

The Atlas project as such, is asleep, but the wiki draws on whatever material we have at hand so continues the work in a different fashion.


2) Regarding the Atlas; are you intending to have a 'basic' list and more extensive domain secrets, or just do each domain in detail?

I think we've basically just been detailing domains. There have been a few PS type things used, and they tend to have things (like the letters at start, rumors, &c) that other realms don't have.

[/quote]3) Are you all starting just in Anure or would, hypothetically, someone interested in laying the groundwork for Rujirk or Bretchur have something to do?[/quote]

I've done a fair bit in Rjurik. I think Stjordvik is well detailed (though far from complete) and Rjuvik has some stuff done, and Halskapa had stuff added. I know a PS of Dauren was added. Even so work gets done more in Anuire for a variety of reasons. I know the most about the realms of the Tael Firth so that's where I have been working, and I've also worked with people on stuff further to the south of that as well.


4) How do you get involved in this? Is there a place to say, "Hey, I want to convert the Druid class, or do some setting work.", are assignments handed out, or is it more, "Whoever wants to do X, do it."?

On the wiki, post what you like when you like. Edit boldly and expect to be edited boldly. If you have a personal contribution you don't want edited for content put under a personal page (you would have your own page on the wiki with an address like user:ThatSeanGuy, and you can always make sub-pages from that like user:ThatSeanGuy/druids.

the full address for your personal page would be
http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/User:ThatSeanGuy

[ThatSeanGuy]

On the wiki, post what you like when you like. Edit boldly and expect to be edited boldly. If you have a personal contribution you don't want edited for content put under a personal page (you would have your own page on the wiki with an address like user:ThatSeanGuy, and you can always make sub-pages from that like user:ThatSeanGuy/druids.

Okay, so, just to see if I've got this: There's no real final authority for the wiki, it's a matter of, "Well, if people like it, it won't get edited away.", and if you want a draft preserved, you put it on your personal wiki page?

Sorry to be obtuse, I just figure it's better to ask permission than to beg forgiveness.

[kgauck]

yes, and there is a 3rd category, kind of in between. If you label a page as a variant. Say you want to make Darien Avan a higher level character. Make a link, to "high level Darien Avan" and on that page (probably better named "Darien Avan/higher level") give us what your vision is. As a varient, making the content the same as standard is less of an issue. If you give your Darien a feat we might not associate with him, but its late on your list, no one would bother it, because its part of the variation. If you mentioned an Avanese Steward, but gave no name to him in your character description, and someone else detailed Avan's Steward, he might edit that page to add his new NPC's name and link.

See as an example of this, Rhobher Nichaleir, who has a low magic variant linked to his page. The standard character is a Noble 2/ Cleric 13, the variant is a Noble 3/ Canonist 5/Cleric 7.

[AndrewTall]

I tried to set up a banner code for wiki pages so that viewers would get an idea of what sort of page they were looking at - straight expansion, variant, etc. Arjan also designed other banners. The 'wiki 101' has the list, if you have trouble finding it let me know and I'll send it to you.

[MikeIII]

Hi, I`m new to this site. Are there any news on the relase of the atlas? The latest message was from the year 2006, is the project still running?

[Green Knight]

Don't think there is any effort made on the Atlas - everything in that regard is focused on the Wiki. Try it.

[Noquar]

First, I want to say thank you to any and all that have contributed to the new BR manual and Wiki, It has been a great resource for campaign dynamics and filler details. The problem I have with the Wiki setup is that It is difficult resource to access out side of web surfing time. In order to really make the Wiki material work I have to create this custom word file format so I can print it up and have It available for use in a "real" game. I wonder If a Wiki hard copy could be put out each year, in PDF format like the BR manual that was released? This would make it much more convenient and accessible.

Just an idea :)

[AndrewTall]

The problem there is gathering it into a printable format - although I suppose we could look at the most popular pages and put the top however many into a word doc - the time consuming part would be formatting it.

The top ten (barring the main index page) are currently:
# Anuire ‎(7,255 views)
# Avanil ‎(3,985 views)
# Medoere ‎(3,414 views)
# House rules ‎(2,821 views)
# Stjordvik ‎(2,637 views)
# Ghoere ‎(2,607 views)
# Boeruine ‎(2,604 views)
# Classes (base and prestige) ‎(2,523 views)
# Roesone ‎(2,521 views)
# The Gulf of Coeranys ‎(2,516 views)

This would of course get out of date quickly, have a fair amount of repetition, and not really look at the importance or interest of a page as page clicks have many explanations - I hit the Danigau main page dozens of times while entering the wiki information on it for example and each will count.

Pity however the pages shunned:

# Nalhorske ‎(21 views)
# Terence Gryphon ‎(20 views)
# Carilon Alam ‎(19 views)
# D20:Basics and Ability Scores ‎(19 views)
# Haekholfn ‎(19 views)
# Yvarre ‎(18 views)
# Svarkannek ‎(17 views)
# Leivika ‎(16 views)
# Hoeskal ‎(14 views)
# Dankmaar ‎(13 views)
# Hjarrsmark ‎(12 views)

And as for those pages that seem to miss the 'popular page' function such as my poor random events house rules: http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/User:AndrewTall/Random_events there is clearly no hope!

A 'best of' the wiki could be done by voting/acclaim I suppose - or looking at comments generated on the forum, but personally I'd rather people looked on the wiki than waited for us to sort out downloads - on the wiki you can add your own comments...

[ThatSeanGuy]

I think the Thale Rjurik colonies are kind of underloved because of their relative isolation, and how extreme the conditions are-no one but other frozen, starving Rjurik to interact with and frozen tundra to survive on makes for poor adventure or domain play.

An easy way to improve this would be to make Thale's climate a little less like the North Pole, and a little more like, say, North America. Give the other major Cerilian nations reasons to colonize the area, and you'd have an interesting political reversal of the Rjurik being dominant and unavoidable, instead of sort of shunted off to the side there.

Maybe throw in a few dwarf and goblin kingdoms for zest(We've covered enough on elves to last the next decade, I daresay.), and suddenly you've got a region that's worth running a campaign in.

[AndrewTall]

The problem with making thaele warmer is that the Rjurik Highlands and Vosgaard are south of Thaele while frozen parts of the northern hemeisphere - so unless you pull Thaele off to the side it is going to be seriously chilly barring major changes to rjurik and vosgaard or some intriguing geothermal mechanics.

Diplomacy follows population size so you could have a frosty race of some sort (walrus men from Krynn? ice goblins?) or dwarves (underground it can be warmer easily) to beef up the numbers of people to talk to / fight. In general though I'd see Thaele as more of a place to go to for adventures, wealth and glory than do nation-building in. Aquatic races might be another possiblilty, we have sahuagin mentioned in the great bay - you could have some more of the scaly peril near thaele easily, or selkies, etc.

[Rey]

Leader of the domain: Penguin the Awnshegh. :D

[ThatSeanGuy]

The problem with making thaele warmer is that the Rjurik Highlands and Vosgaard are south of Thaele while frozen parts of the northern hemeisphere - so unless you pull Thaele off to the side it is going to be seriously chilly barring major changes to rjurik and vosgaard or some intriguing geothermal mechanics.

Diplomacy follows population size so you could have a frosty race of some sort (walrus men from Krynn? ice goblins?) or dwarves (underground it can be warmer easily) to beef up the numbers of people to talk to / fight. In general though I'd see Thaele as more of a place to go to for adventures, wealth and glory than do nation-building in. Aquatic races might be another possiblilty, we have sahuagin mentioned in the great bay - you could have some more of the scaly peril near thaele easily, or selkies, etc.

Well, there are several ways around that, I think; just having the Rjurik colonies be a little west of directly northern Cerilia could give us the, "Warmer ocean temperatures and airflows." excuse, something that's been seen in the real world a few times. Volcanic and geothermial activity could also be a source of a more varied climate, or a few well positioned mountain ranges could explain dryer and wetter locations.

Or, if we want to go crazy, we could say something like a sleeping dragon's breath is warming Thaele...that could be the whole reason for the sudden colonial rush, as the great hunks of ice into a more temperate climate, while northern Rjurik and Vosgaard remain, in the old tounge, "Damn sure chilly.". Throw in a phrophecy and a dark conspiracy by the witches of Kriesha to return eternal winter to Thaele, and you've got a pretty neat storyline.

[Lee]

In a message dated 4/2/2008 4:46:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

Maybe throw in a few dwarf and goblin kingdoms for zest(We`ve covered enough
on elves to last the next decade, I daresay.), and suddenly you`ve got a
region that`s worth running a campaign in.


Wasn`t there an ice goblin in the Frostburn book?

Or, is there a sea-going goblin trade network somewhere?

Lee.

[ThatSeanGuy]

Wasn`t there an ice goblin in the Frostburn book?

Or, is there a sea-going goblin trade network somewhere?

Why not both? Have a competition between the traditionalist ice goblin kingdom and the more modernist group of sea-fairing goblins who totally aren't pirates at all, really, they promise, and far more willing to trade with humans.

Then again, I've got a soft spot for Cerilian goblins.

[geeman]

At 01:45 PM 4/2/2008, ThatSeanGuy wrote:

>An easy way to improve this would be to make Thale`s climate a
>little less like the North Pole, and a little more like, say, North
>America. Give the other major Cerilian nations reasons to colonize
>the area, and you`d have an interesting political reversal of the
>Rjurik being dominant and unavoidable, instead of sort of shunted
>off to the side there.

The name "Thale" is likely based on the mythological land of Thule
which, along with Hyperborea, was a type of "unknown land" at the
edges of the Earth. Some myths say there is a hidden temperate zone
somewhere in the frozen lands of the North.

Gary

[Rey]

Frost giant kingdom.

Remorhaz, ice dragons, etc.

[Rowan]

You know, with Cerilia's giants and elves being more mythological and fey-like than "standard" D&D, why are goblins comparatively normal (if better organized)?

Why not toss in some more fey goblins (perhaps your remote ice and sea goblins), or make the whole race more fey-like. It might help explain why humans haven't been able to eradicate them, without having to rely on massive birthrates. It might also help explain how they could have rebelled against enslaving elves long in the past and succeeded in that rebellion.

To make them more fey, you'd have to give them some interesting, perhaps rather random or chaotic, magic powers--probably having to do with stealth, trickery, and brute force. 0-level spells might help, as might such things as 1 round displacement or a few mirror images, Enlarge or Reduce, Disguise Self, Alter Self, Blur or limited invisibility, auguries or divinations. I tend to give small goblins Sneak Attacks and big ones Rage, anyway; these could be given more mystical origins rather than act as skills.

Make those goblins a tricky and unpredictable lot, where some might be beneficial allies--or treacherous opportunists. The Orogs, after all, already fit the role of the super-militaristic tough monsters, gnolls are the ferocious tribal marauders, while trolls and ogres remain your rarer wandering brutes and giants live in remote clan dwellings. Goblins need not be just snivelling tribes and warbands held together in small kingdoms by great goblin kings. There's rather a lot of overlap with those other monstrous types in this vision. Rather, if they were individually more varied, with all manner of minor magics (each individual only having random access to one or two), they could become much more interesting story instruments--as well as being damnably difficult to deal with at the realm-level.

[AndrewTall]

You know, with Cerilia's giants and elves being more mythological and fey-like than "standard" D&D, why are goblins comparatively normal (if better organized)?

Why not toss in some more fey goblins (perhaps your remote ice and sea goblins), or make the whole race more fey-like. It might help explain why humans haven't been able to eradicate them, without having to rely on massive birthrates. It might also help explain how they could have rebelled against enslaving elves long in the past and succeeded in that rebellion.


I think I recall an alliance between Boeruine and Thurazor - but don't remember details off-hand. I figure something similar worked during the empire to let them survive - the goblins were members of a sorts or at least considered 'neutral' - somewhere handy to let hotheads blow off steam and the like. Some sort of elemental/spirit twist would be interesting though - certainly for some of the goblins (I like having goblin rabble around).

[Thorogood Roele]

I think I recall an alliance between Boeruine and Thurazor - but don't remember details off-hand. I figure something similar worked during the empire to let them survive - the goblins were members of a sorts or at least considered 'neutral' - somewhere handy to let hotheads blow off steam and the like. Some sort of elemental/spirit twist would be interesting though - certainly for some of the goblins (I like having goblin rabble around).

If I recall the history of the world the goblins rebelled far long before the humans came to Cerilia, however, there was indeed an alliance between Thurazor and Boeruine in the novel "Iron Throne" they were nearly hand in hand full allies, of course Boeruine had no real respect for them.