Population of Rhubhe Manslayer`s Realm

[geeman]

The RoE text describing this awnshegh`s realm says that fewer than
1,000 elves have "stuck by Rhoubhe throughout his long years. Those
who are killed are replaced by their children, and some say that
elves from Tuarhievel and the Sielwode come to learn the ways of
hatred to take back to their people."

A couple of notes/comments:

1. The level 2 population of Rhoubhe`s province should probably
represent a population of 4,000 to 7,000.

2. His four elven infantry and two elven cavalry units that Blood
Enemies describes would account for 1,200 soldiers. That`s more than
the reputed population of the province, but not enough to make up a
gap that is probably better than 4,000 elves.

3. The quote from RoE would seem to indicate that elven birthrates
aren`t as low as all that. That text is open to some interpretation,
but Rhoubhe leads one of the most aggressive and isolated of the
elven domains, in a more or less constant state of war with some of
Cerilia`s most powerful human nations on his borders. If elves in
Rhoubhe`s province are able to replace themselves by having children
to the extent that it`s worth mentioning at all, then that would
indicate that neither war nor birthrate are the main reasons for
Sidhelien decline. A small random sample, yes, but potentially very
telling.... Rhoubhe`s land is the smallest of the elven kingdoms,
yet it`s never described as being in decline the way other realms
are. Sure, it probably couldn`t really get much smaller... but
various texts describe Rhoubhe as aggressive and expansive rather
than in decline. Nearby human realms fear him.

So, assuming that population levels represent actual population
figures rather than an interpretation of population efficiency, how
do we reconcile the supposed population in the province with a
population level of 2? Are there other, unaccounted for elves? Are
most of its inhabitants transient elves from other elven nations
there to learn from the awnshegh? Are the 1,000 elves described
merely those who were with Rhoubhe at Deismaar and have stuck with
him ever since (or their offspring) while the 3-6k other elves in
Rhoubhe`s land are new arrivals?

Gary

[bbeau22]

I would go with your second option. 1000 elves are the orginial group or children from them, and the 3k-5k are new ones.

I am sure there are elves that hate humans but are not warriors. This might be the ultimate home for them where they are free to speak of their hatered and still contriubute to the society. I would guess they, over centuries, have slowly trickled in and not gaining any attention.

[kgauck]

Being replaced by children doesn't mean we're talking birthrate. These may be original elves who have "stuck by Rhoubhe throughout his long years." and have adult children, bred during the 1500 years. In the super rare occasions that an elf of this age dies, it may well be that adult children abandon the man-hating factions of some other elf kingdom to attend the funeral of their parents and then stay on in Rhoubhe's group to take up the cause.

Replacement by birthrate is not at all neccesary to explain the text here.

[Thelandrin]

Oooh. You changed your avatar, Kenneth. It's really tiny!

I think the 1000 Elves refers to those that willingly serve him, which won't include his concubines, various slaves and any soldiers who are only here because their leaders told them to be.

[geeman]

At 09:34 AM 2/5/2008, kgauck wrote:

>Being replaced by children doesn`t mean we`re talking birthrate.
>These may be original elves who have "stuck by Rhoubhe throughout
>his long years." and have adult children, bred during the 1500
>years. In the super rare occasions that an elf of this age dies, it
>may well be that adult children abandon the man-hating factions of
>some other elf kingdom to attend the funeral of their parents and
>then stay on in Rhoubhe`s group to take up the cause.

You mean there`s a group of a little less than 1,000 elves who have
"stuck by Rhoubhe" as a sort of loose fraternity, and when those
elves have children they leave the province for some other elven
land, then when a parent dies his/er child returns to take their
place in that community of "Rhoubhites"? I guess that`s a
possibility. Seems a little awkward, though.... Why would the
children leave the province as a matter of course?

>Replacement by birthrate is not at all neccesary to explain the text here.

No, but it does read like that was the intent.

Gary

[kgauck]

Seems a little awkward, though.... Why would the children leave the province as a matter of course?
They may stay, but aren't part of the core thousand. But I do also think that going to a proper elf realm (Sielwode or Tuarhievel) to live and grow up in a community of elves, rather than an armed camp holding out in the middle of human realms. This is one of the reason I see Rhoubhe's elves are more normal. They aren't hold-outs against normal elves. I also think that not every elf comes back to replace a parent. Some decide to pursue other things, other ideas, but there are other elves that occupy those spaces.

I also suspect that Rhoubhe has more "applicants" than he has room for loyalists. So children live in safe realms, and learn to find themselves in a normal realm. People who come to Rhoubhe are more experienced and commited, and are there by choice.

[Hrandal]

Maybe losses are incredibly rare. Rhoubhe is a genius who has been polishing his tactics for a thousand years. If you look at the kind of forces he has available in Sword & Crown (aerial units, etc) he has a vast amount of power that he can deploy very quickly. Backed up by his own magic and combat prowess, there is very little a raid by Rhoubhe couldn't achieve in a quick strike. Assuming he leads from the front, he could probably storm a small castle on his own, and leave his men to simply ride down or shoot the stragglers.

Since the province of Rhoubhe is described as nigh-impregnable, I doubt the elves ever engage in pitched battle with armies.

As to the level 2, some part of level is presumably to do with harvesting resources and economic output. If Rhoubhe has 1000 elves that are mainly about 1000 years old, then presumably they are probably mainly high level. An economy based on high level characters would need less people to have the same effect as an economy based on low level characters.

[Thorogood Roele]

I think the scenario that the 1,000 elves were just the original elves is much more likely to answer this problem than any. However, consider this also-"The Sword and Crown" TSR published adventure has in Rhoubhe's land many an orog. It also includes one of his offspring which is half demon/half elf. I believe also that I saw he has such a hatred for humans that he no longer cares whether or not he uses the "lower" class species such as orogs and goblins. These could also be included in population levels.

[rugor]

I agree, a point I was going to bring up.

As described in the S&C, it sounded as if there were a population of elves above ground, and a larger population of Orogs below. The combined population could give you more than 4,000... never liked that half/demon bit...

[hazard]

Quote:
"never liked that half/demon bit..."

Rhoubhe is 2E had that spell contact other plain! hmmmmm : )
Why?
To ask his son about sukubus mother health