Djapar

[JerimahRoesone]

Discussion thread for Djapar (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Djapar). If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

[Satchkep45]

I've been going through what we know about Djapar and what we can safely assume or extrapolate. Unlike Aduria--which was intimately involved in Deismaar and the events of the War of Shadow--Djapar is isolated from the central mythical events of the Birthright Campaign. Therefore we have a dual challenge and opportunity: the challenge is to link it enough to the ideas (bloodlines, mebhaighal, the shadow world, regency, etc) of Birthright so that there is an organic link and that fans of BR can enjoy Djapar. The opportunity is to take those same core ideas and put whole new spins on them... let them run loose and see where they go.

As I see it, there are two worst case scenarios here:
1) Djapar comes out looking like some pale oriental/arab imitation of the richness of Cerilia.
2) Djapar comes out looking no different from Kara-Tur or Al-Quadim.

So, here are some of the ideas I've been thinking about:
1. Due to the distance from Deismaar, the non-participation of the Djaparan states in the War of the Shadow and the closing of Djapar to Cerilians, traditional blooded individuals are incredibly rare. OR they come from an alternative source (remember how Azrai endowed the Lost with bloodlines before Deismaar? Could Basaia have done the same?).

2. Djapar is a human-centered continent, without elves, dwarves, goblins, gnolls, ogres, giants, orogs or dragons. Halflings, coming from the Shadow World, may exist in Djapar. Remember that this was the big surprise for the Five Tribes when they arrived.

3. Mebhaighal is an Aebrynis-wide phenomenon and occurs (along with manifestations, gauradalaights, ley lines, etc) in Djapar. Cerilia has a number of creatures born of mebhaighal, such as elves, fey and dragons, which may have parallels in Djapar. I'm reading Oriental Adventures (3.0) and I'm fascinated with the idea of nature spirits, but more to come about that.

4. The Shadow World—and its taint—will exist in Djapar. Without access to True Magic (see below) or elven knowledge, humans may be less able to deal with the threat of the Shadow World.

5. Without blooded humans or elves, True Magic is probably unknown. Lesser Magic, being products of the ancient Masetians and Vos, may come in a widely different form.

6. We know that the Basarji worship Basaia. Due to the closing of Djaparan ports by Basaian’s the Old Gods may still be worshipped in Djapar. Whether prayers are answered by the New Gods instead is another question. The Basarji may be strictly monotheistic.

7. The Basarji need not simply be copies of the Khinasi. There will be continuities, but there are several reasons why they may differ: (a) hundreds of years of separate history; (b) Cerilian cultural influence on the Khinasi from especially the Masetians and Anuireans; (c) Djapar cultural influence from whomever the Basarji share a continent with; (d) the worship of Avani versus Basaia; (e) the first Khinasi immigrants may not have been representative of all of Basarji society (as, for instance the Puritans who settled New England and the convicts who were sent to Australia were both from English society, but neither completely represented the totality of English society).

I will post new ideas (as opposed to these extrapolated thoughts and assumptions) shortly as this post is long enough as it is.

-Satchkep

[Satchkep45]

1. Blooded individuals do exist in Djapar, but are the descendents of heroic individuals who were the children of the Old Gods (in particular Basaia) and human worshippers. Every bloodline is named and distinct. The Basarji may be ruled by caliphs--priest-kings in a Dark-Sunish sort of way who trace descent to the goddess Basaia herself.

2. Mebhaighl in Djapar is called Ki and infuses the land and society in distinct ways. True magic is unknown and lesser magic is embodied in new ways: instead of projecting ki outwards (like Cerilian/Adurian Magicians), Djaparan practitioners (monks) channel it inwards. It is associated with a repressed dualistic philosophy that the Basaian Church deeply opposes.

3. Instead of elves and dragons, Djapar has nature spirits and couatl (respectively) who have distinct, complex relationships with their human neighbors. They are more powerful (and are often worshipped) in lands with high source ratings, while the Temples of Basaia are more powerful in lands with high population ratings. A new class--a modified Oriental Adventures Shamman--serves to take the place of wizards and serves as an intermediary between humans and spirits.

4. Pre-Deismaar, Basarji lands were dominated by an empire with an officially dualistic philosophy, and rising monotheistic Basaia worship. Djaparan troops did not come to Deismaar because they were fighting their own War of Shadow against necromantic armies devastated the empire and led to the rise of militant monotheism. The death of the Emperor coincided (luckily for Djaparans) with the death of Azrai. Tidal waves, earthquakes, storms of blood and pestilence rained down after Deismaar. Both forces were in disarray, aiding the eventual rise of the fundamentalist Basaians.

5. As a result of the War of Shadow and its aftereffects, the Shadow World has merged with the lands to the east of the Basarji territory. This creates a large territory like the Mistmoor, the Taurheivel province of Sideath, or the elven land of Taur Anwnn, where Shadow World freely mixes with Aebrynis. This area, called the Shadowlands, is the home to all sorts of undead and monsterous creatures.

6. To the southeast of the Basarji are an Indian-influenced culture perhaps there is a mountainous area with a Tibetan/Chinese culture to the east.

7. The Basarji are divided between inland nomads and coastal cities. They are heavily influenced by Middle Eastern cultures (like Al-Quadim or the old Arab Nights book) and (to a lesser extent) Chinese/Japanese culture from Oriental Adventures.

8. New Classes: (heavily modified) Samurai, Shamans and Sohei from Oriental Adventures. New Prestige Classes: Witch Hunters, Jurists and Ninjas.

9. New Races: Spirit Folk (half-human, half-spirit)

[Green Knight]

This is the introductory section from my Djapar writeup - it is made to be used in conjunction with my Aebrynis maps.

The continent referred to as Djapar by Cerilians is unbelievably vast, and in truth only the northwestern tip should be called Djapar. This area is still inhabited by the Basarji, the ancestors of Cerilian Khinasi. The area is distinctly Oriental (Arabian) in style, and is suitable for use with Al-Quadim setting material.

The Basarji have lived in Djapar for uncounted millennia, and claim that they are the original inhabitants of this land. In this they are only partially correct, for while they may well have been the first humans to settle the region, there is ample evidence of older non-human civilization in the form of ruined cities in the deep desert. Some of these ruins are so massive that they must surely have been built by giants, while others are equal in dimensions to human cities but alien in their architecture. There are even rumors of cities built of pure brass hidden somewhere in the wilderness.

It is believed that Djapar was once a much more fertile place, where it rained regularly and the seasonal rivers carried water all year round. For some reason the rains stopped and the rivers dried up, and as a result it appears that the ancient civilizations collapsed, leaving the region a desolate wasteland, until the arrival of the Basarji.

Djapar is a harsh land, where the sun shines mercilessly from a clear sky day after day. Only along a narrow strip of coast plain and along the seasonal rivers running from the Amayati mountains, is the land anything more than arid steppes or outright desert.

Djapar is a big place, being half the size of Cerilia. It is bordered by the sea to the west and south, by the massive Amayati mountains to the north, and by the impenetrable deserts of Sadiar to the east. Not surprisingly, most of the travel and trade within Djapar and with the outside world take place by sea.
The Basarji are physically similar to their Khinasi cousins, but many Khinasi also have traits from the Masetian civilization, and they are generally taller and with a lighter skin tone than pure-blood Basarji. The difference isn’t too pronounced though, and a Khinasi could easily pass for a Basarji or vices versa.

The Masetian influence on Khinasi culture can be felt rather more strongly when it comes to language, religion and culture. The Basarji worship one god, and one god only (although they grudgingly acknowledge the existence of other gods), that being the old goddess Basaïa. Once a benevolent goddess of the sun and fire, Basaïa has grown vengeful and bitter over Avani’s usurpation of her portfolio.

The Basarji people of Djapar is divided into two groups which share a common ancestry. The city-dwellers live in a number of city-states along the fertile strip of land along the coast, much like their Khinasi kin in Cerilia. The semi-nomadic Basarji in the arid interior live near the seasonal rivers in the water-carrying season, and follow their herds during the three quarters of the year when the rivers dry up.

Both groups trade with each other and other cultures – the nomadic Basarji carrying goods overland between Djapar and Vendiya or Tho’no’ong (they alone know the paths that will take them safely across the deep deserts), and the city-dwellers mostly looking to the sea to carry their goods.

[Satchkep45]

Green Knight,
I like quite a lot of what you've got here. I think it's a great starting place. I was also thinking of the Basarji being divided between city-dwellers and nomads (much like Al-Quadim was) and the sea emphasis. Likewise I was thinking about legends of "the Ancients" who built ruined cities in the desert.

I like this line: "Basaïa has grown vengeful and bitter over Avani’s usurpation of her portfolio." I think it captures the changes in Basaia that I have also envisioned.

When you wrote this line--"Djapar is a big place, being half the size of Cerilia"--did you mean "Djapar is a big place, being half again the size of Cerilia"? Because Cerilia is notably a small continent.

I agree that the flavor should be distinctly Arabian, but I feel that the rule elements could be drawn from wider sources. I also think that the rest of Djapar might benefit from being drawn from Asian influences (your "Vendiya or Tho’no’ong" are Indian- and Southeast Asian-influenced, respectively?)

[Rey]

When you wrote this line--"Djapar is a big place, being half the size of Cerilia"--did you mean "Djapar is a big place, being half again the size of Cerilia"?
Maybe he meant double the size of Cerilia? Which is funny since that continent is at least three times as big as Cerilia by the map I have...
I wouldn't call Djapar only the northwestern tip of the continent and if i did, it's still the size of Cerilia, not half nor double.

The idea of a continent double or triple the size of Cerilia and with only one god is kind of weird. Make the north/northwest part of the continent largely influenced by Basarji culture and goddess Basaia with a few minor gods (and some southern/eastern culture gods).

Make an assumption that in the name of Basaia only the true worshipers were sent to Cerilia to spread the faith and influence of Basarji culture. "Infidels" were not welcome. The rest of the continent, because of the lessened proximity to Cerilia never had any real chance for settling. Maybe they've settled Ninshon and Kyoro, perhaps even eastern Aduria or went the other side and found Tollanar.

Vendiya (which looks like upside down India), Tho'no'ong and Zhon'ong sound something like Indian/far East cultures, much like Ninshon and Kyoro.

Tollanar could be something like native American culture and Ameyatl sounds pretty familiar then, too.

These could be used with Al-Qadim/Kara-Tur/Maztica CS templates, but compared to Cerilia and Aduria, they look pretty uninteresting and just copy/pasting doesn't help.

Now, back to the topic: blooded individuals, Masetians, could have mixed with Basarji and then told them of Cerilia and the War of the Shadow (make them the previous inhabitants of Aduria's Gold Coast). That mixing was their doom, cause as soon as the powerful Basarji caliphs, or whatever, found out about what the blood meant, they've decided to put an end to weak Masetians and get the new power. Djapar became battlefield with newly discovered secret weapons which spread quickly throughout the continent.
Bloodtheft rituals were conducted to steal the blood from captured Masetians to invest in whole families without the loss of their power on multiple subjects.
There could be some hunt involved, perhaps Basarji in Aduria that were sent to capture more blood....

[Green Knight]

This is my take on how bloodlines were distributed; they are not unique to Cerilia (even if Cerilians would have you believe just that):

Physical proximity to Deismaar was an important factor for determining who got imbued with divine essence, but not the only one. Those embodying the gods’ ideals the most absorbed more power than other, less devoted creatures.
This means that some champions that were far from the battle also received bloodlines (although of lesser strength that had they been present).

So at least IMC there were created some blooded individuals in Djapar (and Aduria for that matter). But not outside the area of influence of the Adurian/Djapar/Cerilian pantheon. Not sure everyone would like this take - some seem to prefer a more Cerilia-centric bloodline view.

[Green Knight]

I use "Djapar" to refer to the north-western tip of the greater continent (so I were thinking half the size of Cerilia). I'm sure that Cerilians also use it to refer to entire landmass, not knowing its extent or content. In that case the land area would be many times bigger.

NOTE: You should bear in mind that my version of Cerilia is slightly enlarged (average province size 50x50 miles as opposed to 30x30 miles). If you don't buy this assumption you can still use the material I suppose, but the world map goes out the window...

[Green Knight]

Filling out the continent was done in a flash - as was naming. So I used real-world analogues and ripped of other settings. In detailing each area, I put effort into making it recognizable, without being identical to the "parent" culture...plus add some twists.

[Green Knight]

Religion:

Recall that my work has the Old Gods surviving (after a fashion)

The old gods also have a place in the religious life in Cerilia, but not to a great extent. After Deismaar, the old gods slowly regained part of their power over a period of time spanning several centuries.

This was made possible by the prayers of the still faithful; in Old Aduria the people never forsook the gods of their ancestors. Now the old gods are active again, but they have yet to regain their full might.

They generally have but a very small following in Cerilia, being mostly confined to Old Aduria and some other remote regions.

Indeed, their death and resurrection not only deprived them of much of their power, but it also left them changed – Anduiras of today is a far cry from the Anduiras of old.


So Basaïa is not alone in Djapar...but is the most important one. Other gods worshiped Anduiras as the patron of warriors and Vorynn as the Sire of Sorcery (for example).

Other areas of the continent are distinctly oriental in texture, and have different pantheons.

[Green Knight]

Seems I'll have to brush the dust of my unfinished Djapar notes and present them...

[Rey]

I sort of imagined that the very essence of the old gods, as their final sign of existance, dissipated and got divided among their champions, thus ending them for good.

[Thelandrin]

That was my feeling too. There's nothing stopping other human tribes worshipping the New Gods under the names of the Old Gods, but the Old Gods are emphatically dead.

[Green Knight]

We do have canon material stating that the people of Djapar DO believe in Basaîa, not Avani. Now, does it matter much if they are actually worshiping anther aspect of Avani or another god entirely? Most likely only to the DM...the players will never know...and the worshipers are not going to be persuaded otherwise after 1500 years :)

[Satchkep45]

I agree that I've always understood the Old Gods as dead--with the possible exception of Azrai/Cold Rider--of course, you can do whatever you like in your own website, but I feel that we should stick to what little canon we have on Djapar. Of course, I think it's entirely possible that the Djaparans worship the Old Gods (though they may receive spells from the New Gods). This canon idea goes as well for the size of continents, though we might be able to accomodate both 30x30 and 50x50 schemes.

The idea that physical proximity is not completely necessary for bloodline transfer has canon antecedents: I believe Rournil had a special talisman that gave him the majority of Vorynn's power and the great sea beasts (the Leviathan and the Kraken) were quite distant at the time of the mountain's destruction.

Perhaps what is best to do about the question of bloodlines is to allow for a multiple generation hypothesis:

1) some great heroes recieved their bloodlines from a distance, a la Leviathan/Kraken/Rournil.
2) some of the bloodlines come from trade with Khinasi, Masetians and perhaps Anuireans.
3) some of the bloodlines were given directly by Basaia (or other Old Gods) before Deismaar in the same manner as the Lost were given bloodlines by Azrai.

If we imagine this possibility, then there becomes all sorts of political ramifications for different bloodline origins. The 3rd type maybe the 'old guard', the pre-Desimaaran Caliphates given their right to rule directly by descent from the Goddess. The 2nd type might be hunted and persecuted as blasphemers. The first type might not recognize where their power originates from (after all their ancestors weren't at Deismaar), instead viewing their ancestors as semi-divine beings in their own right? Which would, of course, be blasphemy as well in the eyes of the Basaians.

[Green Knight]

I agree that I've always understood the Old Gods as dead--with the possible exception of Azrai/Cold Rider--of course, you can do whatever you like in your own website, but I feel that we should stick to what little canon we have on Djapar. Of course, I think it's entirely possible that the Djaparans worship the Old Gods (though they may receive spells from the New Gods). This canon idea goes as well for the size of continents, though we might be able to accomodate both 30x30 and 50x50 schemes.



Which is why I generally 'stick to my own website'...feeling the what I publish should be a pool of ideas from which various DMs can pick what they like, rather than contribute to some sort of consensus for an extended canon universe.

And what little we know abut the Basarji states that they do worship Basaïa still...even after 1500 years. Is it Avani or not - I don't know - but it opens up the POSSIBILITY of exploring other locales clinging to the old ways. And Azrai did also survive it seems...nah, I'll stick with playing with the idea and let each individual DM decide if its really the Old Ones returned or just the replacements pretending to be them.

[Green Knight]

The idea that physical proximity is not completely necessary for bloodline transfer has canon antecedents: I believe Rournil had a special talisman that gave him the majority of Vorynn's power and the great sea beasts (the Leviathan and the Kraken) were quite distant at the time of the mountain's destruction.

Perhaps what is best to do about the question of bloodlines is to allow for a multiple generation hypothesis:

1) some great heroes recieved their bloodlines from a distance, a la Leviathan/Kraken/Rournil.
2) some of the bloodlines come from trade with Khinasi, Masetians and perhaps Anuireans.
3) some of the bloodlines were given directly by Basaia (or other Old Gods) before Deismaar in the same manner as the Lost were given bloodlines by Azrai.

If we imagine this possibility, then there becomes all sorts of political ramifications for different bloodline origins. The 3rd type maybe the 'old guard', the pre-Desimaaran Caliphates given their right to rule directly by descent from the Goddess. The 2nd type might be hunted and persecuted as blasphemers. The first type might not recognize where their power originates from (after all their ancestors weren't at Deismaar), instead viewing their ancestors as semi-divine beings in their own right? Which would, of course, be blasphemy as well in the eyes of the Basaians.

Very good. This takes the original material and then adds new elements and/or explores existing themes. I approve very much.

[Green Knight]

That was my feeling too. There's nothing stopping other human tribes worshipping the New Gods under the names of the Old Gods, but the Old Gods are emphatically dead.

Including Azrai?

[kgauck]

I don't think the old gods are dead. I think they are eternally preoccupied with keeping Azrai contained.

[Thelandrin]

Well no, Green Knight, but then Azrai always was the big bad evil guy of the setting. The Cold Rider, I believe, is a separate entity formed from the malice and residual energy of Azrai's fallen form, but Azrai's shattered soul still lurks somewhere/anywhere/everywhere on the Shadow Realm, which is what makes that realm so dangerous and difficult to navigate.

[Satchkep45]

Am I thus pushing too far to say that we can run with:

(1) The name "Basaia" is still worshipped in Djapar and we recognize that canon has Basaia dead, but leave whether she actually still exists or not is up to the DM?
(2) There are multiple potential origins of Djaparan bloodlines and we don't need to have a single one for Djapar, but assume that they could all occur and fit them in as we see fit (and is realistic) on a case by case basis?

Any vetoes? This stuff is pretty important, but I'd like to get into some nitty-gritty of Djapar...

[Satchkep45]

One of the key ideas of Al-Quadim and Arabian Nights were the concept of the Jinn (or Djinn, or Genies or whatever), and I think that bringing them into Djapar could be very fruitful. For one, they give a distinctive 'Arabic' flavor to the place and also because I feel that they'd work well with the Mebhaighl-style magic of Aebrynis.

I thought maybe I'd start the conversation by going to Muslim mythology. Here I'm going to draw on the Encyclopedia Mythica (http://www.pantheon.org/articles/j/jinn.html) and some links off of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie).

"In Islam, jinns are fiery spirits (Qur'an 15:27) particularly associated with the desert. While they are disruptive of human life, they are considered worthy of being saved." Jinn are not angels or demons, per say, but powerful beings who have the same ability to worship Allah as human beings (they have free will and can be Muslim or non-Muslim). They were created out of 'smokeless fire' and have tremendous abilities to move quickly and fly. They can fit into any space and have an association with the wilderness. The word 'Jinn' itself comes from the root word of 'Concealed.' It might be possible to translate 'Jinn as 'The Concealed Ones.'

--------------------

In Djapar, I would like to propose that we link in the Jinn as a species of beings similar to Elves: powerful, immortal beings which sprang from the mixture of Mebhaighl with the five elements. They are linked to the land and are often emotionally distant and uncaring of humanity. Differently from elves, I see them as even more attached to the health of the land, as being naturally invisible ('The Concealed Ones') and closely tied to the Shadow World. I think that, at least at powerful levels, they would not make good player characters. However, I like the possibility of Half-Jinn PCs-- beings from the desert with fire in their veins that ride at the head of nomad armies.

[Sorontar]

Satchkep45's points are good to me, but I would also add that the general population of Djapar is pretty much unaware of the true nature of the bloodlines, the blood abilities and bloodtheft. *Some* will know this sort of stuff, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.

Coz if they still worship in the name of the old god, what would they know about the battle of Diesmaar and what affect it had on Cerilians.

So most of the blooded people in Djapar (what few there are) would not be able to explain how they are blooded, nor would the people in their community understand the truth behind how they have their divine/magical/cursed abilities. What is more, the people would not necessarily be able to see that Lord A of X and Lady B of Y got their abilities from the same event.

And inheritance of bloodlines will only be by bloodtheft or birth. There will be very few investiture ceremonies in Djapar because realm magic will be almost non-existant.

Sorontar

[cccpxepoj]

And inheritance of bloodlines will only be by bloodtheft or birth. There will be very few investiture ceremonies in Djapar because realm magic will be almost non-existant.
Sorontar
and the bloodlines need to be considerably weaker then in Cerilia, cause blooded characters often interbreed with non-blooded and the result is halved bloodline.
So i think the average bloodline strength is 5 or less.
As for the Jinni, i found interesting ideas in the legend of the five rings books, where Jinnis are divided in two groups one trying to coexist with the humans, and other seeking to dominate them (again !!!), of course this is meant for the lands of burning sands not the blessed empire of Rokugan, and a few interesting ideas about "heartless wizards", priests of the lost gods, legend about goddess trapped beneath the sands and so on. ( i think that is in the books Way of the Unicorn, and Secrets of the Unicorn )

[Green Knight]

...which would only means that ruling families would be careful to intermarry to keep their blood strong.

[ShadowMoon]

I don't see the reason for "special" bloodline system in any continent part Cerilia. Any DM can incorporate blooded individuals anywhere on Aebrynis, but it is not enough to make 'em part of non-cerilian culture.

One reason for having blooded characters on other continents is that if they go there, they would be almost unopposed because of the power they can harness. So one of the first instances would be to see majority of powerful blooded mages of Cerilia spread around the globe, but we have no record of this.

In my campaign even non-blooded characters get Regency, so I can have efficient realms in Aduria, Thalesia, and Djapar. All species have Regency modifier, for example every Dragon has base Regency score 10, which means that we can threat it as having Bloodline strength 10 for ruling system. Regency score stacks with Bloodline strength for ruling mechanics only. Regency score is further modified by character level...

Something like: Maximum regency character can receive is equal to his bloodline score + regency score + character level. Maximum stored regency is twice bloodline score + regency score + character level.

I had to do this, cause in my campaign players ended deep in Aduria, so I had to find some reasonable way to support realms that might exist there. I mean, those descendants of Adurian humans that were present at Deismaar have some powerful bloodlines, but there are more cultures there that without real ability to manage realms would perished.

[AndrewTall]

One of the key changes in BRCs was to make it possible for the unlooded to rule domains by removing the automatic regency cost for all actions. That said a scion regent will earn 25-50% more income then an unblooded regent due to RP collection in a similar campaign - over 1500 years enough to push scions to the top even if over the short term canny entrenched unblooded rulers could hold their own.

With low competition comes rapid growth. Without the sucking quagmire of RP contests an early Djarpurian regent could rule their bloodline once a year easily - possibly every six months. That would rapidly counteract any initial low bloodscore. Add in historical ties between true magic and evils such as Azrai, elves and dragons and the rarity of wizards remains explicable, not every nation has a Firosk Selectra! The Rjurik for example have eliminated wizards through social means despite knowing their power, equal distrust of wizards could be prevalent elsewhere.

With wizards incidentally I think another problem would be the age old 'starter' problem for source regents. True wizardry was unknown, sponsorship by a rich ruler was therefore less gold-intensive (magicians do not cast realm magic or rule holdings which are the two main costs of a wizard) and thus a source regent simply has no income with which to create their realm.


As to source for bloodlines outside Cerilia I see the following possibilities:

*Corruption of Azrai to ensure his conquest of all Aebrynis - Azrai corrupted the Lost, the great sea-beasts etc long before Deismaar imbuing them with with something at least similar to a bloodline. On his death his former champions found themselves with great, even true, bloodlines despite the rarity of such amongst other gods. Scions of Azrai could therefore be found anywhere.

*Returning champions. Migration to Cerilia and trade with it would have been ongoing - it is quite possible that a djapurian fought at Deismaar, or a survivor returned back to the home country having seen the horror of the godswar, or that a child scion was sent to be educated in the home realm and stayed, or that a scion was stricken by the heresy of Avani/etc and returned to the home of true believers, etc, etc. Scions of Basaia could easily prove that they were chosen of Basaia, imbued with her power to protect her people while she recovered from the war.

*The Empire's children. The Anuirea Empire covered most of Cerilia, chunks of Aduria, and so on. It is quite possible that would-be rulers/forutne seekers struck out to many other places - and particularly under BRCS usurpation rules - left scions behind. Think of 'the man who would be king' as a movie example.

*Other dead gods. Why did the gods chose to fight Azrai at Deismaar? Why not just Anduiras whose people were invaded by the land bridge? What made Brenna send her warriors away from defending her lands from Vos and goblins to defend Anuire? A concept I toyed with when thinking about a continent to the far west was that Azrai had killed one or more gods before Deismaar - thus proving to the formerly slumbering gods of Cerilia (and once Aduria) that they had to fight him together or fall separately.

[AndrewTall]

Which is why I generally 'stick to my own website'...feeling the what I publish should be a pool of ideas from which various DMs can pick what they like, rather than contribute to some sort of consensus for an extended canon universe.

Noooooo! :eek:

The wiki is not supposed to be a 'consensus' - that was the key problem with the BRCS which has resulted in it grinding to a halt as the key people behind it drifted away with RL. :(

The wiki only 'lives' if it is owned by the entire community - I have been practically absent from the wiki for (at least) six months for example due to RL issues, has the wiki slowed? No! Other player's have added their stuff and it keeps growing. Do I expect that a general consensus of the 'typical campaign' will arise - in the fullness of time as the game is played over and again? Yes of course- some pages are far more popular than others already - but the wiki should never become a closed system shunning new ideas and interpretations.

If an idea is particularly far out or incompatible with the base canon then it should be flagged as such on the wiki - that's all. Just a warning to people that the page might not 'fit in' with the usual campaign without a bit of tweaking. Nobody is (I hope) saying for example that a page I post on the wiki is more official than anyone else's simply because Arjan tagged me as a moderator way back when, or because the other page is on a personal website not the wiki, or is labelled as fanfic, etc. Give me credit for a good line by all means but please Haelyn don't give me responsibility. :)

It is easy enough to post something as an alternate version, or as 'your campaign' if you want to differentiate it - and if everyone posts on the wiki then it should be easier for people to find the author's writing/art and for the author to link their work to pages by other people that they like, etc.

The last thing that I think anyone wants is the sad inevitable fate of so many D&D ideas and stories - they go up on a DM's website, get ignored by at least half the DM's players, and then the site gets taken down after a few years and the ideas are lost forever.

So please GreenKnight, shun our wiki not. For it is poorer without you and enriched by your presence - as it is enriched by the presence of work by anyone who loves the setting and is willing to say so in times new roman 11 without giving WOTC's lawyers fits...

[kgauck]

Andrew is right. The only thing about posting stuff to the wiki is that it either sits on a personal page, or its part of the community where it will be edited, augmented, and possibly changed. I've migrated most everything from my Taelshore site to the wiki (and what hasn't been moved is generally because I haven't gotten to it yet). If something was so dear to me as an author I didn't want it messed with or so idiosyncratic I knew others would reject it, I'd put it on my own user pages.

Most of what any DM does in detailing things that barely had a stat block (MBr Pr7, Kirche, Br Major 28; CG) are entirely unobjectionable. Which doesn't mean no one will make changes or additions, but it does mean it works quite well on the wiki.

[Rey]

Yes, please, spit out ideas so we may use them. :)

I feel compelled to give you some of the reminders. Don't think I'm being wise, I'm only pointing out things that we need to bear in mind.

The big picture says that Birthright is a special setting. Come to think of it, every setting is special. :)
What makes BR special? Playing a character as a regent (or not), being blooded (or ..not, but much more yes than no), running a stronghold (not necessarily), wizard with ley lines draining magical power, connection to the land, etc. This whole thing is characteristic (or should be, or need not be) to the world known as Aebrynis.
You've come to the conclusion that blooded characters have powers that make them more powerful and that, given chance, they could use them to conquer some part of the land (or other continent) where they had no opposition. Imagine if the blooded character rule or any other doesn't apply to whole world. You'd have no balance and it would be a matter of time when things could go terribly wrong. And tell me you don't buy it and you can just ignore those away.

What can be done? Give something for countermeasure if you don't apply those rules to whole world or give idea to how it could happen despite not having physical proximity. Maybe Azrai tried the same trick in whole world of Aebrynis? Who knows. Imagination counts, and this is fantasy.

I remember that when my friends tried to create a different gaming system, and this goes for all of them that already exist and we even use them, there's a need to balance the thing out.

The good thing, and also the bad thing is... the work on Cerilia is not finished yet. Once the work is finished, you have to bend it all to comply to what you have done. And the work done has to be made sealed. Else, you can have dozen versions. I like options, but versions are killer. I liked the PS and rules and I took them for granted. I would like to do that with the material you write.
But beware, the tighter you get it, less options you have. And maybe the general ideas have to be done first, before delving deeper to that continent, realm, domain, province, city, guild, character, blood....

:rolleyes:

[Satchkep45]

I agree that complete consensus is not desireable--nor possible in a wiki which is constantly shifting--Aebrynis belongs to us now to create as we like. We just have to play nice and share as my mother used to say.

Djapar is a big continent, I'm sure there's room for domains ruled by Anuirean exiles, descendents of Masetian merchants, folks whose ancestors were imbued by Basaia and Azrai before their deaths and who knows what else. After all, bloodlines are one of the elements that makes this game so captivating and I don't want to lose them any more than the rest of you. Aebrynis is a complicated place and I don't want to shut out possibilities.

Likewise, we're writing our own fiction and if we don't want a continent full of people with wimpy 5-point bloodlines, then we come up with a (realistic) fiction as to why they don't. Perhaps the Basaian church, if it is led by caliphs endowed millennia ago with bloodlines, was taught investiture rituals long ago by the dead goddess. Maybe a strict caste system has protected royal bloodlines from strong dilution. Maybe some clever Djaparan learned how to rule up his or her bloodline independently.

In the end, we don't need (and I would argue shouldn't want) a single answer to these questions.

---------

As to cccpxepoj's comments on the Jinn, we could certainly have some Jinn working with humanity (willingly for some, perhaps unwillingly for others?) and others if not seeking to dominate them, at least trying to remain aloof. I like the idea of a goddess trapped beneath the sands and would be curious to hear more about 'heartless wizards'.

I was thinking about ways that could prevent a Cerilian wizard from coming and conquering the entire continent (though maybe that might be cool in one domain, I want to see a bit of variety and don't like all these mage-states--too much like some of the spots on the north coast of Aduria). If Jinn are closely tied to source levels and the most powerful Jinn are linked to the Manifestations of powerful sources then even powerful mages might pause before trying to siphon off power. What if jinn are a bit like dryads: tied to places of magic on the land. They cannot move too far (outside of the province perhaps?) from their sources and if the source manifestations are destroyed the jinn's physical form dissapates until the manifestation reforms.

[cccpxepoj]

As to cccpxepoj's comments on the Jinn, we could certainly have some Jinn working with humanity (willingly for some, perhaps unwillingly for others?) and others if not seeking to dominate them, at least trying to remain aloof. I like the idea of a goddess trapped beneath the sands and would be curious to hear more about 'heartless wizards'.
well i would like to write it all, but it would be incorrect, that is why i wrote the names of books where i read it, believe me Legend of the five Rings( or Rokugan) is worth reading, and after 4 years of studying German and Russian my English became a "little rusty".:p
And yes after long period of playing(and GM-ing, cause most of my crew are birthright fans) on Cerilia i am planing to bring the two worlds together and play some major adventure around previously mentioned ideas, and at least one of my players is monitoring this site, so i'm not in the position to reveal it.


What if jinn are a bit like dryads: tied to places of magic on the land. They cannot move too far (outside of the province perhaps?) from their sources and if the source manifestations are destroyed the jinn's physical form dissapates until the manifestation reforms.

Well they can move if they are bounded in specially made containers (traditionally fashioned like lamps), or if the lay lines are conecthing provinces,
and yes i think their number should depend on source level.

[Satchkep45]

Definitely, I agree that the idea of trapping the Djinn in containers is a good one. I'm thinking a bit about Sha'irs and their role in the relationship between humans and djinn. I don't like the hyper-magical Sha'ir created for Toril, they just seem to be too powerful and too magical for Aebrynis. I was looking at the origin of the word 'Sha'ir' and it appears that in Arabic it simply means 'poet.' I know poetry was and is a crucially important art form for the peoples of the Arabic penninsula and that poets were also diplomats and mediators. Perhaps Sha'irs might look something more like a cross between a druid and a bard (with poetry instead of music?) than an elemental mage. (of course, with the ability to entrap Djinn...).