Realm Point Build System

[Sarelth]

This is a system that was used in a game I played in. I liked it and wanted to share it with others and perhaps tweak it a little to work better than it did.

Ok Here goes.
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Each Player starts with 45 points to spend on their realm, this number is then modified by class, with some point distribution restrictions. Point total can be lower if the DM wants a lower level game.

Class Bonus
* Noble or Aristocrat 10 points for Province, Law holdings or Contacts
* Fighter or Warrior 10 points for Military/Naval units or Law
* Cleric or Paladin 10 points for Temple or Law holdings
* Wizard 10 points for Source holdings
* Rogue or Guilder 10 points for Guild Holdings, Trade Routes or Contacts


* Province - Level 0 = 2 points.
o +1 province level = 2 points, 1 for Noble/Aristocrat, 1.5 Fighter/Warrior
* Holding - level 0 = 2 points.
o Law Holding = 1 point, 0.5 Noble/Aristocrat
o Guild holding = 2 points, 1 Rogue/Guilder
o Source holding = 2 points, 1 Wizard
o Temple holding = 2 points, 1 Cleric
+1 point if the province or holding is not in contact (touching or in a province controlled by the player). These type of holding are considered Enclaves.

Remaining point's may spent as follows:

* 0.5 point = 4 GB worth of Military/Naval. Use purchase price as if mustering.
* 2 points = Embassy or Spy Network in foreign Province.
* 1 point = Fortify a Province or Holding
* 1 point = 1 Lieutenant per point spent. Start 2 levels below PC.
* 1 point = Raise one of your province's Loyalty to high. 0.5 points per additional province.
* 0.5 point = One-way trade route between any two Guild Holdings.
o Land Route Includes a Road. Sea Route does not include anything.
* 1 point = Seaport in a province, additional seaports cost 0.5 points each.
* 1 point = 5 GB Treasury
* 1 point = +1 Class Level. Starting level = 3rd.
* 1 point = Regency Points Equal to Domain Power. Only 1 point can be spent here.
* 1 point = Ley line from one source holding to another, 0.5 cost per holding linked in the line

[Mantyluoto]

did every realm have the same number of provinces or were they all different?

i'm thinking of some examples from southern Anuire, with Medoere having 3, Ilien 1 and Roesone 7 (i think!)

[Sarelth]

The game was not set in the base setting, and from what I saw of the game it was actually random. I simplified it and made a standard point system that would allow for more equal realms, though it all really depends on what the points are spent on, since you could make a realm that had one province and a lot of Units (At least till you had to pay upkeep for them).

I had 2 characters in the game and each started with around 50 points. So I picked a starting point around that. I had thought of a few extra things that one could spend points on, but couldn't recall them off the top of my head this morning. I will see if I can find my notes and add them later though.

[Mantyluoto]

i understood that it wasn't in the base setting but with 45+ points and only a single province you could have it as a high level province and a power in its own right especially if you control all the holdings. whereas a player with 7 provinces would have lower provinces levels and less "power" to start with.

i think there is a system in the back of the 2nd edition set that might be worth looking at to.

[Sarelth]

Yes you could make one really powerful province. That is a real drawback to the system if you have to worry about players that are going to abuse the system, but if you have good players that should never be a real problem.

I will look into the system you mentioned, though I don't recall it. Will have to dig out my old books and look for it. :)

[Mantyluoto]

Me too.

If i was creating a game "World" for this i'd make sure all the realms were different sizes. to much similarity between realms size would imbalance the game IMHO.

[Sarelth]

I agree completely. If ever realm is one province in size and is maxed to the teeth in everything, then the game is rather dull.

I find that most players do not have to same ideas of what they want their realm to be. Yes you might get a twink that just wants a realm that is 1 godly powerful province, but you may also get a realm that is 10 level 1 provinces.

People can be very unpredictable at times.

[Sarelth]

Here is the basic info on the realm I built using the system.

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Organisation: Kingdom of Greece (Grc)
Character name: Antaios Menoikeus, King (Nob6, An, major, 29)
Character race: Human
Character gender: Male
Court Level: 4
Liege: Constantine V Isaurian (Byz)
Know Lieutenant's: General Balinark - War Council (hm F2, Br, Minor, 14)
Family Members: Akantha (fH, Nbl-1, unblooded), wife
Hirelings: 1 Cohort (Noble-4), 1 Champion (Fighter-2), 4 Followers (Noble-1), 2 Informants- (Experts-1), 1 Thug (Warrior-1), 1 Spy (Expert-1)
Estates: 2 in ? (3/5th of a GB total)

A noble of a small (but well developed) kingdom, the character recently inherited the throne and all the responsibilities that go with it. Antaios knows the ways of the court, from growing up at his fathers side, and hopes to bring his own touch to the kingdom, with peace and prosperity for his people. He knows that war is an inevitability though and has kept his fathers trusted military adviser in office to assist him in that area, which he himself knows little.

Province Law Temple Guilds Source Ruler - Loyalty Race Terrain
Achea (3/4) Grc(3) PoC(1) -- -- Grc (High/Helpful) Human Plains, Coastal
Athens (5/3) Grc(5) PoC(1) -- -- Grc (Avg./Friendly) Human Highlands, Coastal
Fish - Grc
Morea (2/6) Grc(1) PoC(0) -- -- Grc (Avg./Friendly) Human Forest, Coastal
Herd Animals- Cattle
Trade Goods- Leather

Holdings in the Realm: Unclaimed
Domain Attitude: Poor/Unfriendly
Province Law Temple Guilds Source Ruler - Loyalty Race Terrain
Thebes (0/6) -- -- -- -- ?? - Occupied by Grc Human Hills, Coastal

Grc : Antaios Menoikeus (PC)
IMO : Galenus Tatronus (NPC)
PoC : Anastasius (NPC)

Known and Developed Resources:

* Fish in Athens
o Grc
o 5 GB to develop
o +1 GB income
o protection vs. Famine
* Herd Animals- Cattle in Morea
o Anyone can develop
o 5 GB to develop
o +1 GB income
* Trade Goods- Leather in Morea
o Any Guild may develop
o 5 GB to develop
o +1 GB income

[Mantyluoto]

the original point buy system is on page 95 (i think) of the rule book.

[Sarelth]

I'm at work right now so I can not look into that, but I have the box set at home somewhere, if I can not find it I have a copy on disk for ease of use as well. ;)

[Mantyluoto]

I like the idea of being able to totally design a realm, except for shape and size of it, and whilst i've always known it was there i've not looked to heavily at the rules.

Plus i think that giving your players free rein is a good thing. and is deffinately something i'm going to look into.

Let us know if you intend to run a game and what system you'll use. i'm interested.

[Sarelth]

Well, I like having a pre-made map myself. That way you do not get some to much in the way of randomness in a game with this type of realm creation. :) Less Chaotic that way.

Well I might be able to run a game, but I tend to be way to distracted for something like that. I would not want to start a game only to not even get a turn done...

[kgauck]

Consider how easy it is to rule up a province. While strategies will vary between players, constructing a balance between a large realm that can be cheaply ruled up, and one that is so high in level that its a strong, defensible base will produce variation. Most realms have a strong point and are surrounded by more empty provinces. A city and its hinterland.

If you are able to rule provinces up, there will always be an incentive to keep a few low level provinces available for future development. A single mighty province makes internal development harder, and only expansion is attractive in many situations.

[AndrewTall]

To prevent the 'tower province' strategy - which may sound good to the player but would soon prove a) stifling and b) boring you could increase the cost of holdings as they increase in size.

i.e. a L1-2 province is undeveloped (2/3 cost), a L3-4 is developed, a L5-6 is urban (+1/2 cost) for example. That would encourage a number of small provinces with only a few larger provinces with most of 'average' level.

I would beef up the base cost of a province, and chuck in 1/2 the law free - that way 1/2 the law (round alternatively up and down from province to province) is seen as normal, and neophyte players are less likely to automatically 'max out' or forget the law, having very low law will be clearly seen as a disadvantage since the system gives bonus points for having low law.

A veteran player would know that law holdings are important - a newbie might assume that as 'king' they 'have rights' and see any law holdings as simply extra cost. Since a lot of domain play focuses around regents asking for support from the law holder a PC who buys just the base province would miss out on a lot.

[irdeggman]

I think by mixing in PC building with domain building you have made the system "clunky".

What I mean is that it might be better to have the player build his PC normally then use his blood score value as the basis for how many points he has to build his domain. (similar to the 2nd ed system)

I would not give any variant costs based on class, because in 3.5 RP collection is not based on class but rather on skills (it is just easier for some classes to get better skill ranks than it is for others).

I would also follow some sort of escalating cost for holding/province levels to slow down the highest level holding/province syndrome.

Something like the cost to raise your bloodline score (present score plus 1) that way it gets expensive to focus too much. {Similar to the point buy method of ability score generation}

[Exile]

To me, it looks as if that system was based on what I remember of the existing one contained in the original rulebook.

On a skim-through of it, I think that it could work quite well, and I'd be interested in seeing what people came up with when designing a network of domains.

I suspect that the major problems would come from fitting in non-landed domains to the mix - that'd almost certainly require some GM intervention to try to have things make some degree of sense. That said, the 3.5 revision of the rules removes the link between province size and non-landed income, which makes it easier to fit guilds and temples into a map.