View Full Version : Severe Taxes Optional Rule

02-17-2002, 04:46 PM
Severe Taxation Side Effect -- The Tax Collections on the province effect the collection of income by Guilds and Temples. When a regent taxes the province with Severe Taxes, all Guilds and Temples suffer a -1 GB to their collections in that province. This reflects the reduction in available 'disposable' income that citizens have after taxes. When the regent taxes the people heavily they have less money to spend on merchant goods and less to give to charities or places of worship. This rule will encourage friction between holding regents and strict provincial regents who enforce severe taxation...

What do you think about this optional rule?

Riegan Swordwraith
02-17-2002, 06:08 PM
Sounds like a good idea.......

Green Knight
02-17-2002, 09:41 PM
Very neat. I use a similar rule myself.

Arch-Sorcerer Gargamel
02-18-2002, 01:50 AM
makes perfect sense

Lord Eldred
02-18-2002, 06:33 PM
I like the idea. Have you game-tested it yet?

02-18-2002, 07:07 PM
Orginally posted by Lord Eldred
I like the idea. Have you game-tested it yet?

Details, details... ;)

Lord Eldred
02-18-2002, 07:12 PM
Yep, I want the details, details... :)

Finkin Swiftfingers
02-19-2002, 04:08 AM
I like this rule. It makes sense. I think I will add it in to my game.


Lord Eldred
02-19-2002, 08:39 PM
Let us know how it works out.

02-20-2002, 06:52 PM
It makes sence, though the money the guilds or temples loose should no way be more than the GBs the regent is gaining. e.g. in order to win 2GBs with heavy taxation more than the GBs earned with moderate you need a province 9 or more ;). But if the money the guilds and temples are loosing go directly to the regent's treasury, it would be perfect(but for this reason are the law claims :).

Green Knight
02-20-2002, 08:33 PM
The Gbs represented by taxation etc does not cover all the gold available in a province. Thus, there need not be an absolute link between increase in taxes and reduction in guild/temple income.

Lord Eldred
02-24-2002, 05:43 PM
Yes and no. Money is finite in the province at some point there would be no gold bars to gain. However, you are right that it would not be a one for one deal with the holdings. The people could be taxed more than what they stop giving to the church for example.

Abbess Allessandra
02-27-2002, 02:42 AM
Yes exactly what if they stop giving to the church? Then you have an uptight church leader knocking on your door, or feeling you have lost touch with your god, they plan to "reform" you and your land.....

02-27-2002, 05:43 AM
Orginally posted by Abbess Allessandra
Yes exactly what if they stop giving to the church? Then you have an uptight church leader knocking on your door...

Precisely the goal I had in mind! Rebellions of the masses are too easily quelled. Rebellion of the nobles and those of influence is not so easily silenced!

02-28-2002, 01:11 AM
Remember though, that the rulers of Anuire are still theoretically bound by the ancient laws of the empire. I think that even under severe taxation you can only claim as much tax as you have the legal authority to claim. I think that taxing Temples/Guilds are covered in law claims. I can see how severe taxes might make people more spend thrift, but I think the kind of situation you are describing is covered by the loyalty change rules. Think about it, if you are a feudal leader, what do you care what your peasants think about you? They're to poor and hungry to worry about anything but working. Revoulutions are typicaly led by the middle class, I.E.: church leaders and minor nobles. These are the people the ones whose loyalty you care about and, in my campiagn, are the ones whose loyalty affects the loyalty rating. But if you have enough law holdings, (and can ignore loyalty changes) you can wield enough legal authority to claim those high taxes legally. That up-tight Church leader might complain, but you did it all legally, so what is gonna do about it? Otherwise, he could begin to start grumblings about you're illegal taxation, and eventually be legally justified in starting a rebellion.

Green Knight
02-28-2002, 10:57 AM
I just cannot agree with this. Why would the rulers of Anuire be bound by ancient laws from a dead Empire? I'd say that some may follow these laws as an example, but there are plenty of realms who dont. Examples: Taline, Roesone, Medoere, Aerenwe, Elinie... all have or could have very diferent laws.

Lord Eldred
03-01-2002, 01:00 AM
Why do you think that these particular provinces would not follow the ancient laws?

I do believe that there were revolutions led by the poor in history or are we ignoring those because they happen much later in history?

03-01-2002, 06:25 AM
They would all be bound by these laws because they all maintain (at least as I understand it) the claim that they are the legitmate claimant to the Iron throne. Even those who don't lay such a claim base they're authority on the fact that they are the ruling familly of the domain in question as installed by those ancient laws and the Roeles. Even if they did break away, all nations throughout history have respected some sort legal mandate. An example of this is the U.S. constitution, or the Magna Carta in medievil england. Despite what is commonly believed, kings are not above they're own laws. They maintain they're authority on the basis that they are in some way the rightfull ruler of there Domain. Therefore, even the King can't countermand the authority of these laws, because it throws into question his own right to rule. I know it seems strange at first, but look at it like this. The president bases his term in office on the fact that he was duly elected under the terms laid out in the consitiution. If then, a presiden began rule in a manner that defied the constition, it would throw his right to rule in question, because since it could be discarded once, it could be ignored again to remove him. Look also at a King whose authority is based on the fact that God has chosen him and his family to rule. If that king were to begin ruling by the sword, in defiance of the ancient laws of his ancestors, he would breaking the very laws which allowed him to rule in the first place! Imagine then the difficulty felt by Anurian rulers, who are still trying to pretend they're one big happy empire, and that they're just having some "Dynastic dificulties". True even the densest peon knows that's not the case, but that is the claim on which they base they're authority. I know not all regents are anuirean, but even the basest warlord must have some legal mandate on which to base his authority, or he would have all kinds of problems getting people to respect him, especially other regents. So, everyone who is gonna have law holdings, has to have laws to obey, and my example holds true.

04-20-2002, 02:16 PM
Have you ever thought of doing the converse? When a province only has low taxation, guilds and temples gain a greater amount of gold, as the people have more money to spend, and as such spend more and donate more to their local churches.

Lord Shaene
04-22-2002, 03:16 PM
or better yet what if the province ruler collects no taxes for the domain turn?