New Gods and Old

[Osprey]

I have often wondered why the Birthright authors limited the 2nd generation of new gods to only 3 (it was probably Rich Baker writing this on his own, but I'll say "they" just in case another contributor had a part in this).

Were they just filling in enough spheres of influence to generally cover all the character classes having a preferred patron deity?

Were they making sure there was one of every major portfolio covering the general scope of human interest?

Both of these assertions would explain Laerme and Eloele being created, but interestingly only Cuiraecen seems to overlap and potentially conflict with the other Cerilian deities of humanity. In fact, he specifically competes with his father, Haelyn, and with Belenik as a god of war and battle, and the distinctions about how they are different re. War are much finer than any of the other portfolios.

If Cuiraecen can come to exist as a source of tension and competition for worship over the same sphere of reality, why aren't there others that were created? Which brings me to the Big Question for this thread:

If there were more deities spawned by the new gods (or by other means) after Deismaar, who or what might they be?

[Magnus Argent]

I have often wondered why the Birthright authors limited the 2nd generation of new gods to only 3 (it was probably Rich Baker writing this on his own, but I'll say "they" just in case another contributor had a part in this).

Were they just filling in enough spheres of influence to generally cover all the character classes having a preferred patron deity?

Were they making sure there was one of every major portfolio covering the general scope of human interest?

Both of these assertions would explain Laerme and Eloele being created, but interestingly only Cuiraecen seems to overlap and potentially conflict with the other Cerilian deities of humanity. In fact, he specifically competes with his father, Haelyn, and with Belenik as a god of war and battle, and the distinctions about how they are different re. War are much finer than any of the other portfolios.

If Cuiraecen can come to exist as a source of tension and competition for worship over the same sphere of reality, why aren't there others that were created? Which brings me to the Big Question for this thread:

If there were more deities spawned by the new gods (or by other means) after Deismaar, who or what might they be?

It is stated that in the days following Deismaar, the new gods worked closely with one another but conflict and rivalries have since developed and the pantheon is no longer as harmonious as it had once been. Although we are told that Haelyn and Neserie married and together had Cuiraecen, that may simply be how mortals interpreted his creation.

We know from other settings that there are a multitude of ways that new gods can be created. For example, in the Forgotten Realms, the former goddess of luck (Tyche) became infected with the taint of Moander. To prevent the taint from infecting all of her, she was split in two. The dark, tained half became Besheba, goddess of bad luck and the non-tainted half became Tymora, goddess of good luck. There are also examples of gods elevating mortals to godhood to serve them as a kind of vassal or to focus on a particular aspect of their portfolio that they personally find distasteful (or just to free them up for other thing I suppose). For example, Shar gave a portion of her divinity to a mortal who became the god Mask. Millenia later, she took back the divine power she had given him (but he secretly had acquired additional divine power and was able to return retain godhood despite the loss.)
In Krynn, the goddess Mina was born of the combined joy felt by the gods during the Age of Starbirth. In that setting, balance among the gods is important. In order for the evil goddess Takhisis to be stripped of her immortality, the good god, Paladine, had to divest himself of his own immortality to keep the balance. Mina was only allowed to continue to exist because her insanity gave her multiple personalities, one good and one evil, thus the balance was maintained.

How does this apply to Birthright? Maybe not at all. But it equally possible that one or more of these types of scenarios could be at play.

It appears that, however they came to be, the birth of Laerme, Eloele, and Cuiraecen likely required consent from the rest of the pantheon or perhaps rules were set in place by the old gods that remain despite their destruction. Or perhaps the universe (game designers) felt the need to balance out the pantheon for some reason.

One idea I played with for a while was the notion that the old gods didn't actually die at Deismaar. Their combined power was enough to destroy Azrai and it was his death the caused the explosion witnessed on the plains below. But the old gods became infected with Azrai's darkness and immediately saw their mistake -- Azrai's taint was forcing their alignments to change towards evil and/or chaos. Realizing that their very nature would be changed, in order to preserve all that they stood for, they gave as much of their divine energy to the mortals who best exemplified what they stood for. This is how the Champions became gods .. but the transfer of divine energy was rushed and poorly executed. The Champions couldn't absorb the divine energy as quickly as the gods tried to divest themselves of it. The excess of divine energy is what was absorbed by the other mortals who were present at Deismaar, creating the divine bloodlines. And the old gods were unable to completely divest themselves of power before they became completely infected by Azrai's taint.

Thus, Kriesha is the LE version of the LG Mesala. Belinik is the CE version of TN Reynir, Cuiraecen the CG version of the LG Anduiras, Laerme is the CG version of the LG Basaia, Eloele is the CN(E) version of the CG Brenna, and the Cold Rider is the NE version of the TN Vorynn. It's a fun twist.

I suspect the most likely explanation is that the creation of the new gods either required a consent or a certain amount of cooperation that existed in the new gods' early days but does not currently exist in the present.

It is interesting to compare who each god considers to be their ally. In many cases, it's a one-way street. Ruornil and Erik both consider each other and Avani to be allies but Avani doesn't count either of them as allies. She sees her allies as being Laerme and Neserie. Laerme sees Avani as her 'superior' and counts Cuiraecen as her ally. Despite being "husband" and "father", neither consider Erik to be their ally. Sera and Ruornil were "married" and had Eloele. Sera considers Eloele and Neserie to be her allies. Eloele considers Sera and Cuiraecen her allies. Again, no love for Hubbie/Pa Ruornil. Cuiraecen arguably conflicts the most with his 'father' in terms of temperament and portfolio but he considers Haelyn to be his superior and Neserie his ally (sometimes Laerme, sometimes Eloele, too). And literally no one, except for Ruornil, considers Erik to be their ally.

Make of this what you will ;)

[Fizz]

If there were more deities spawned by the new gods (or by other means) after Deismaar, who or what might they be?

Geez Osprey, you don't have to yell at us. LOL.

Of the 8 gods that were created from Deismaar, 6 became parents. The only two that did not (at least yet) are the two who took Azrai's essence. Why is that?

A while back i considered doing a campaign involving a new deity, the spawn of Belinik and Kriesha. I envisioned the deity as a goddess of disease and pestilence. I even had a name for her. In my master plan, both her parents thought they could control her for their own ends, but she could not be contained or controlled. She would not have been a mainstream deity, limited to wacky cults and the like. That's about as far as i got with it and never ran the adventure. Maybe i should write her up and post it on the boards here.

In BoP, it is stated there are rumors that Cuiraecen and Laerme have a thing, or possibly a triangle with Eloele. So perhaps a third generation is on the horizon. Let's see... Cuiraecen is the god of battle, Laerme is the goddess of love, so combining we get... god of marriage? :)

-Fizz

[Osprey]

Geez Osprey, you don't have to yell at us. LOL.
OK, OK, I took it down a few notches. :D I was writing for the TLDR crowd.


Of the 8 gods that were created from Deismaar, 6 became parents. The only two that did not (at least yet) are the two who took Azrai's essence. Why is that?

A while back i considered doing a campaign involving a new deity, the spawn of Belinik and Kriesha. I envisioned the deity as a goddess of disease and pestilence. I even had a name for her. In my master plan, both her parents thought they could control her for their own ends, but she could not be contained or controlled. She would not have been a mainstream deity, limited to wacky cults and the like. That's about as far as i got with it and never ran the adventure. Maybe i should write her up and post it on the boards here.

That's an interesting concept. My mind goes to some dark places with those 2...like did Belenik and Kreisha have a child in marriage, a brief affair, or a single encounter? Was it by consenting union, or something more violent? (Sorry if this is over-sensitive content for some...I feel like you can't have evil gods without talking about and having them do evil things. Otherwise they just aren't really scary or threatening.).

The nature of the conception might shape or point toward the nature of the child, as well as who is parenting them after birth, and what messages they might teach them. If Kreisha were forced, for instance, she could easily raise a child to hate Belenik, maybe even one who plots to murder and replace him (bloodtheft of the gods!).

I've also wondered what vacuum in the cosmos might be left if the Cold Rider's rise to power were ended (maybe by PC adventures and/or the other gods trying to stop it; they could use faithful PCs as agents in that.). What if the Unseelie King or Queen led a war or were allies against the Cold Rider, and bloodtheft him when he manifests in a great battle in the Shadow World? (again, PCs could have orchestrated an alliance with the Sie/faerie court as part of the buildup to this showdown). A Fae God/dess of the Shadow World corrupted by Azrai's essence? Now that would be interesting!


In BoP, it is stated there are rumors that Cuiraecen and Laerme have a thing, or possibly a triangle with Eloele. So perhaps a third generation is on the horizon. Let's see... Cuiraecen is the god of battle, Laerme is the goddess of love, so combining we get... god of marriage? :)
-Fizz
HAHA don't forget Fire + Storms blending, in case marriage is not volatile enough! :D

I think there's room to be creative with next gen gods. They can have aspects from their parents but hopefully there is room for new stuff too. Just being fusions of parent energies is a little boring for gods (lest we end up with Junior Superhero godlings for the Birthright Kids' Cartoon).

Hmm, I will keep pondering Laerme and Cuiraecen having kids. In my current game they are about to get married and create a new domain to rule together, so it's a pretty relevant possibility somewhere down the line.

[Osprey]

It appears that, however they came to be, the birth of Laerme, Eloele, and Cuiraecen likely required consent from the rest of the pantheon or perhaps rules were set in place by the old gods that remain despite their destruction. Or perhaps the universe (game designers) felt the need to balance out the pantheon for some reason.
....
I suspect the most likely explanation is that the creation of the new gods either required a consent or a certain amount of cooperation that existed in the new gods' early days but does not currently exist in the present.

Where does the likelihood of consent by the group come from? I never assumed that was likely or necessary from anything I read. Certainly there are metaphysics that govern the limits of the gods' powers - there is no omnipotent being or even a creator deity in BR as far as we know, but there are certainly rules that govern natural and magical forces, and we know these forces are closely intertwined. As the Shadow World, the realm of spirit, largely mirrors and reflects the physical world, we know its rules are also related to the fundamental forces of creation, albeit in twisted and not always understandable ways (thanks Azrai!).

So I see the rules governing the gods as equally fundamental forces of creation, which the new gods probably had to figure out on their own while testing their new-found power. I imagine having children to see if they could was part of the era of experimentation in the first few centuries after Deismaar - when the new gods were still acting like curious young humans learning to survive and thrive in a new world.

I imagine two main reasons for the gods not having more children:

1. Disinterest. The main focus of the gods became bigger than kids and relationships after a few centuries (I imagine most humans wouldn't last in one marriage for hundreds of years.). In this scenario, all of the gods have drifted apart and each lives alone in their own domain - which is exactly how it looks in the Book of Priestcraft. No gods have a shared domain they rule together, as far I know.

2. Cost. Perhaps it took a significant portion of the parent gods' energies to combine to make a new deity. Realizing how much the creation of one god weakened them, the parent gods never had another child.

Perhaps if enough time passes, the once-mortal gods might grow tired of their roles and willingly pass on their mantles to successors, either through creating or spawning a new god, or by anointing a champion or heir through something more like Deific Investiture.

[Magnus Argent]

Where does the likelihood of consent by the group come from? I never assumed that was likely or necessary from anything I read. Certainly there are metaphysics that govern the limits of the gods' powers - there is no omnipotent being or even a creator deity in BR as far as we know, but there are certainly rules that govern natural and magical forces, and we know these forces are closely intertwined. As the Shadow World, the realm of spirit, largely mirrors and reflects the physical world, we know its rules are also related to the fundamental forces of creation, albeit in twisted and not always understandable ways (thanks Azrai!).

So I see the rules governing the gods as equally fundamental forces of creation, which the new gods probably had to figure out on their own while testing their new-found power. I imagine having children to see if they could was part of the era of experimentation in the first few centuries after Deismaar - when the new gods were still acting like curious young humans learning to survive and thrive in a new world.

I imagine two main reasons for the gods not having more children:

1. Disinterest. The main focus of the gods became bigger than kids and relationships after a few centuries (I imagine most humans wouldn't last in one marriage for hundreds of years.). In this scenario, all of the gods have drifted apart and each lives alone in their own domain - which is exactly how it looks in the Book of Priestcraft. No gods have a shared domain they rule together, as far I know.

2. Cost. Perhaps it took a significant portion of the parent gods' energies to combine to make a new deity. Realizing how much the creation of one god weakened them, the parent gods never had another child.

Perhaps if enough time passes, the once-mortal gods might grow tired of their roles and willingly pass on their mantles to successors, either through creating or spawning a new god, or by anointing a champion or heir through something more like Deific Investiture.

Consent was pure conjecture on my part. Either of the two reasons you propose -- cost or disinterest -- could very well be the case. And, you're right.. consent would only make sense good-aligned deities. Belinik certainly wouldn't let a little thing like consent bother him. Any chance that Cuiraecen could possibly be ... nah, they wouldn't.. ?"

[Sorontar]

I think that thinking of it as children and marriage amongst the gods is just trying to give human names for concepts that aren't actually appropriate. I suspect that the gods actually had been exploring the ways in which they could work together and realised that there were new options. Rather than just combining the effects of their powers, they saw that they could possibly combine the powers, but in doing so, they created new gods. I wonder if they even didn't know what would be the result. This also means that there is nothing stopping there being more than two gods involved and there being no restriction to the gods being binary genders (or any genders). The new god doesn't have to be born; it is just created when the gods tried to use their powers in a new way. Some of these combinations may even have not have been intentional .

For instance, you mentioned the rumour that Leira and Khirdai might be a couple and wondered what new god may be born. You suggested that Battle and Love might create Marriage, a very Lawful-based concept that may have been caused by Good or Evil intent or convenience (Neutral). What about Revenge? (Chaotic) You mentioned Fire and Storms so why not a new god of Destruction (Neutral)? I suspect there are many other combinations you can think of that cover other concepts and alignments.

Who knows, you could even have new gods formed from Moradin and Haelyn, or Torazan and Nesirie. There is no rule that they have to be "human" gods as the originators. They may even be allowances that enable gods from other realities to sneak in (though this sort of goes against the "Aebyrnis and the Shadow World is a separate planar universe"-type argument.

Sorontar

[Fizz]

I think that thinking of it as children and marriage amongst the gods is just trying to give human names for concepts that aren't actually appropriate.

I agree in a sense. The state of being a god is beyond the understanding of us mere mortals. On the other hand, the new gods remember their mortal existence, desires included, and that must influence how they proceed (such as the concept of a spouse).


For instance, you mentioned the rumour that Leira and Khirdai might be a couple and wondered what new god may be born. You suggested that Battle and Love might create Marriage, a very Lawful-based concept that may have been caused by Good or Evil intent or convenience (Neutral).

Well, to be fair i only suggested marriage as a joke. :)

But yes, i can see how different porfolios of the child deity can be justified from the same two deities. Perhaps the next child of Haelyn and Nesirie would be the god of the sky and protection and community, maybe?

But is there a limit to how different the spawned god can be from the parents? For example, could Haelyn and Nesirie have a kid who becomes an evil god of tyranny and suffering (the exact opposite of the parents)? I don't see it an extreme like that working unless there is a significant backstory explaining it.

-Fizz

[Sorontar]

Haelyn and Ruornil and Nesirie - a Moon Sailor Guardian god?

[Magnus Argent]

Haelyn and Ruornil and Nesirie - a Moon Sailor Guardian god?

1805

Who knew she was a Birthright creation? ;)

[masterdaorin]

Of the 8 gods that were created from Deismaar, 6 became parents. The only two that did not (at least yet) are the two who took Azrai's essence. Why is that?

Aren't they siblings?

I seem to remember reading in the canon material somewhere that they are brother and sister...

Anyway, even if they aren't, I don't think either trusts each other enough to get close enough for procreation... :D

They would probably both end up stabbing each other in the heart...

[Fizz]

Aren't they siblings?
I seem to remember reading in the canon material somewhere that they are brother and sister...

I don't think i've ever heard that before. To my knowledge, Belinik and Kriesha are not siblings.


Anyway, even if they aren't, I don't think either trusts each other enough to get close enough for procreation... :D
They would probably both end up stabbing each other in the heart...

Indeed. I think they only way it could occur is if they thought they'd get something out of it. In my hypothetical campaign, they each try to use their daughter for their own purposes, but she rebels and becomes uncontrollable by either of them.


-Fizz

[Sorontar]

For all we know, new gods could be created by two or more gods fighting each other, their powers and reality all mixing. Primal chaos reigned. Time and the pure essences of heaven, the moisture of the earth and the powers of the sun and the moon worked upon a certain rock old as creation, and it became magically fertile. Elemental forces caused the egg to hatch. From it then came a stone mon.....

I'll stop now. It was irrepressible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88y4ttqaW6U

[AndrewTall]

I used to have it the other way around in my campaigns. I had wizardly magic work by drawing on the seeming for greater magic (anything except illusions, divination and charms), the wizard created the effect they desired in the awnmebhaighl and then drew it from the Shadow World into Cerilia.

priestly magic then worked the same way but by rote rather than reason - the unconscious will of the populace created the realms of the gods in the shadow world, the priest then drew upon this collective strength to do the same thing. Since the priest didn't gather the power in this approach I could justify having many more spell casting priests than wizards (although they still weren't that common).

So in my game the gods were a creation of the people, and priests didn't communicate with a distinct divine being when they prayed or used various spells, but with, at best, the collective dreaming minds of their temple's flock, and mostly merely their own subconscious.

The new gods then arose after Deismaar because the people wanted to believe, something had clearly happened to the old gods (witnessed at the battle of Mount Deismaar and by the lack of granted spells since) and so someone else needed to take their place - add a few charismatic preachers and as soon as a critical mass is achieved to get some priestly magic going, the magic then proves the validity of the new faith and it snowballs from there.

The new gods are then the result of basic myth-making as great hero's get incorporated into the mythology, or deluded but charismatic preachers manage to create something new.

I think I did the change in approach mainly so I didn't have to role-play a god as DM, and so I could make it easier to have messy temples with internal politics and bickering, things I saw as hard to justify if there were actual active gods in the center of the faith.

[masterdaorin]

I think I did the change in approach mainly so I didn't have to role-play a god as DM, and so I could make it easier to have messy temples with internal politics and bickering, things I saw as hard to justify if there were actual active gods in the center of the faith.

I wouldn't call the new gods active in their faiths.

In fact, these formal mortals seem to be the opposite of their predecessors.

Has anyone ever tried to explain this in their campaign?

I've always been under the impression that the new gods are rather... cautious about their newfound power, including Belinik and Kriesha.

The question becomes: why?

[Osprey]

I wouldn't call the new gods active in their faiths.

In fact, these formal mortals seem to be the opposite of their predecessors.

Has anyone ever tried to explain this in their campaign?

I've always been under the impression that the new gods are rather... cautious about their newfound power, including Belinik and Kriesha.

The question becomes: why?

The canon explanation, where they agree never to manifest and fight directly on Aebrynis, seems to be that they are all afraid of another Deismaar explosion destroying some or all of them like it did their predecessors.

So I always assumed that there are 2 main reasons for the new gods' caution:
1. They know they can be destroyed by each other and who knows what other ways.
Belenik and Kreisha, who may not even be a part of the pact, must still be aware of it, and know they are terribly outnumbered and outpowered by the rest of the Cerilian pantheon. The 2 of them together - if they can even cooperate - represent only a fraction of Azrai's original power.
2. They are former mortals learning to be gods, and the inexperience of wielding such power has made them worry about what consequences they might unwittingly unleash upon Aebrynis. I imagine the more they learn, the more they fear how every action they take can send world-bending ripples through both worlds (Aebrynis and the Shadow World), and not always in the ways they intend - like how empowering their own champions can spur the rising of counter-forces and ends up making their rival deities and their followers stronger.

A possible 3rd reason could be the growing corruption of the Shadow World - which is suggested to have been caused by the Deismaar event - might be worsened by every application of great power from the gods. If we have the gods being native to the Shadow World and not the outer planes, this theory gains a lot of credence, because we can then see the application of gods' power as application of Shadow World power - and what happens to the barrier between these worlds when such events occur?
riiiiiiip goes the veil...

All that being said, in my own campaigns I also speculate that the new generation of gods: Cuiraecen, Laerme, and Eloele - did not experience Desimaar, and have not internalized the trauma of that cataclysmic event like their parents did (I mean...the champions had their GODS and most of their armies blow up in front of them!). So if any among the new gods are going to be more irresponsible, less cautious, and create unwitting consequences in both worlds, I think these 3 (and any other newer gods a DM might want to add) would be the most likely culprits.

[masterdaorin]

The canon explanation, where they agree never to manifest and fight directly on Aebrynis, seems to be that they are all afraid of another Deismaar explosion destroying some or all of them like it did their predecessors.

But... immortals worrying about their own mortality? How odd, wouldn't you say...? :D


So I always assumed that there are 2 main reasons for the new gods' caution:

Two very good points, and probably the same conclusions reached by the vast majority of anyone who cares to think about this subject.

And then...


A possible 3rd reason could be the growing corruption of the Shadow World - which is suggested to have been caused by the Deismaar event - might be worsened by every application of great power from the gods. If we have the gods being native to the Shadow World and not the outer planes, this theory gains a lot of credence, because we can then see the application of gods' power as application of Shadow World power - and what happens to the barrier between these worlds when such events occur?
riiiiiiip goes the veil...

There is this reason.

Oddly enough, I've never seen this traumatic type of event as ripping the veil, as it were...

But, rather, a thickening the veil. A wound attempting to heal itself... A scar separating the two worlds, where things are no longer in touch with their spiritual (or fey) nature.

And, yet, we have observable proof that the veil is thinning in certain places...

The question then becomes, why?

My answer has always come back to: Did Azrai set this all up? Did the Shadow Lord purposefully tempt his siblings to enable this act for some purpose that they failed to see...? A calculated gamble... that seems to have paid off?

:D


All that being said, in my own campaigns I also speculate that the new generation of gods: Cuiraecen, Laerme, and Eloele - did not experience Desimaar, and have not internalized the trauma of that cataclysmic event like their parents did (I mean...the champions had their GODS and most of their armies blow up in front of them!). So if any among the new gods are going to be more irresponsible, less cautious, and create unwitting consequences in both worlds, I think these 3 (and any other newer gods a DM might want to add) would be the most likely culprits.

Eloele does seem to be something of a wild child. Each is gaining in popularity, being proactive...

These facts come right back around to the first question of why the gods had these three kids in the first place...

Oh, what a tangled web of gods and mortals they weave... :)

[Malphas]

But... immortals worrying about their own mortality? How odd, wouldn't you say...? :D


first they know for a fact that they are mortal.
second immortals pondering mortality is quite common in many media
so no i would not think it odd even if they were not former humans



Oddly enough, I've never seen this traumatic type of event as ripping the veil, as it were...

But, rather, a thickening the veil. A wound attempting to heal itself... A scar separating the two worlds, where things are no longer in touch with their spiritual (or fey) nature.


IMO detonating a nuke in proximity to a containment wall doesn't improve the containment nor thicken the wall. the sideath lichgate incident (and likely many others)
don't improve things either. even if the evanessence was trying to heal and form scar tissue (scars are not actually tougher per say) everyone and their daughter ripping the wound open a bit is not helping.



And, yet, we have observable proof that the veil is thinning in certain places...

The question then becomes, why?

My answer has always come back to: Did Azrai set this all up? Did the Shadow Lord purposefully tempt his siblings to enable this act for some purpose that they failed to see...? A calculated gamble... that seems to have paid off?


we need to remember that azrai was against the worlds being split in the first place.
while i find the whole thing being a gamble a bit cheap that would make some sence.
funny since i also thought tuar to have made a gamble as well (to be rid of all gods)
that would make niceguy syndrome (anduiras) and co the only strait actors at deismar.
them and gorgon i guess.

more to the main topic. as another thread pointed out there is one more source of new gods. the one serpent is spearheading. we have divine blood derping around...

[Outlaw Pope]

First post on the forum! Hello.

I have been a long time player in the Forgotten Realms and Athas' setting but I recently acquired BRs material and have really enjoyed jumping into it. I like its quirks and feeling at large in the DnD multiverse.

What I have felt in my first reading is it seems Aebrynis and the sphere it is in is relatively young compared to other prime realms - the mythology as far as Cerilia's records seems to only (maybe) go back to like 20k years when the elves first formed and the 6 "nice gods" forming the world by tying their existence to reality itself and their errant brother Azrai not really liking it very much.

Why I rehash that is it seems like Azrai, in his hate and want to domineering and obliterate the creation that his siblings wrought and wanting to return to a less ruled setting - sort of opened the floodgates of both interlopers and new powers.

Personally he invited the gods of the humanoids and their creations (at least in the way as its described. I am not entirely sure if the lore we get in the Atlas and Rulebook is meant to be a flawed IC narrative). One could suppose then that if he brought them there or opened the doors, that other entities might enter if they can stomach passing through the corrupted Shadow World.

I could readily see more demons, devils, and other dark gods just sort of ambling in to corrupt/destroy/meddle.

We already have Moradin and the dwarves in the more kindly part. I noticed Maglubiyet and his subservient gods got mentioned by name instead of his potential aspect in Kaltathor (though that could have been errata). Titania even seems to have an aspect and some sort of dominion over fey and elves (in lieu of Corellon, though the elves have always had a little fey side story and the Seldarine are friends of the Seelie Court) here.

Azrai being the "lord of chaos" may have hoped to just dislodged his siblings by inviting frenemies or create problems for them and their legacies. It could mean that all sorts of things might be coming through.

The Shadow World, even in its corrupted state, seems less like a barrier that prevents and more like a "this is literally the only road to interact with the prime world and people of this sphere". As in - it might be a hassle for some to want to come and given its backwater nature maybe not seen as an ideal candidate to export divine essence.

Beyond that - I totally got the vibe that the Bloodlines, especially the DIVINE RIGHT and fellowship/vassalage thing was meant to both emulate and hint at possible apotheosis - not so much for worldly kings/priests/guildsguys - but for the transformed people given how they seem to have their own beyond-mortal presence after a certain level. The Fae or the Gorgon ooze supernatural.

So I also do not think its farfetched new gods might be/have been intended from there as well.

Again- all of this is my first read through and merely my feelings on that read of the AD&D material. I find it all curious as well - it seemed like they wanted to go all kinds of places before it unfortunately was cut short.

(I also feel like, with how some people from that project were involved in 4e that the Shadowfell & Feywild were basically the Shadow World / Spirit World.)

[Malphas]

had a discussion with my playgroup and we came up with the 3 child gods (one for each of the new gods pairings). they kind of seem to work best if used together tho.
none are named, have no spheres assigned or avatars/symbols created.

Eloéle+laerme= either gender-less or female deity of dawn and dusk. meetings and partings, and forbidden love. animal: lark or nightingale

Cuiraécen+Eloéle= female goddess of strategy and tactics. with espionage, scouting and other information gathering. animal: raven

Cuiraécen+Laerme= male god of social (and to lesser extent scientific) progress. highly chaotic. animal: buterfly

any thoughts?

@Outlaw Pope
i think birthright (similar to darksun) is best viewed aside from the more interconnected worlds. don't try mashing similar deities together and realize that birthright demihumans are quite different (not necessarily mechanically) from the phb counterparts.
just my opinion