The Lost (possible spoilers)

[Fizz]

Hi all-

I have a question about what seems to be a contradiction.

First of all, i understand that The Lost are those who were taught true magic by Azrai himself. And that only two of them have escaped the Shadow World to exist on Cerilia.

Now, according to Blood Spawn, those two are the Raven and the Magian. However, in Rich Baker's `lost files', he claims the two are the Raven and el-Sheighül. So who is el-Sheighül? Is that another name for the Magian?

Thing is, i've also googled the name, and in some PBeMs, they seem to be separate characters, implying they are two different things. In this case, Blood Spawn would be contradicting Baker's `lost files'.

Can anyone shed some light on this shadow? Thanks!

-Fizz

[fiftyone]

el-Sheigul is a wizard regent in the Khinasi lands. He is a lich, and is partially bound to the shadow world. In the Khinasi set, I believe it said he could only take one domain action a turn, the rest of the time he was bound to the Shadow World. He lords over the Blackspear Gnolls I believe and is himself a poweful lich, I think.

edit

Found the book and it lists him as a Male Khinasi, Wizard 19; Unknown Bloodline; Lawful Evil

[Fizz]

Hmmm... ok, so we have a potential conflict. Baker's file said it's el-Sheighül, not the Magian, who has escaped, contradicting Blood Spawn. Unless the Magian one of the Lost too, but then we've got 3 who escaped the Shadow World, not just 2.

Anyone have an idea how to resolve this? Which version do people here go with?

-Fizz

[graham anderson]

I dont think the magian is mentioned as a member of the lost in the books I will check later on but you could use him as the lost or not as you choose.

[Fizz]

I dont think the magian is mentioned as a member of the lost in the books I will check later on but you could use him as the lost or not as you choose.

He is in Blood Spawn. That's the only reference i know of.

-Fizz

[Robbie]

"But when Azrai was destroyed, the Lost’s hold on Cerilia disappeared, and they were drawn through the curtain and imprisoned in the Shadow World. Only two of them, the Raven and the Magian, are known to have found their way out."

Blood Spawn, p. 4

Besides these two there's el-Sheghul and the Cold Rider. The remaining 8 are all uknown as far as I know.

It would be nice if the Lost had some additional powers through this gift that Azrai bestowed on them. Maybe their magic has an unknown source or effects (like Dark Sun's defilers for example)

[Fizz]

Besides these two there's el-Sheghul and the Cold Rider. The remaining 8 are all uknown as far as I know.

el-Sheighül perhaps... Cold Rider... umm... ;)

-Fizz

[irdeggman]

The Cold Rider is definitely not one of the Lost.


Rich's lost files seem to reinforce what a lot of people thought about him and it most definitely is not as one of the Lost.:D

[Osprey]

It would be nice if the Lost had some additional powers through this gift that Azrai bestowed on them. Maybe their magic has an unknown source or effects (like Dark Sun's defilers for example)

I seem to recall mention (probably at BR.net) that the Lost Ones were taught secrets of power by Azrai. This could make them magicians, sorcerers, wizards, or really just about any other character class. Each class has "special powers", or could be construed as such (secrets of warfare = fighter bonus feats, for example). Consider these guys are some 2000 years old (give or take), and assuming they've been finding some challenges through the ages, are likely high-to-epic levels. Some may even be on par with the Gorgon...which might answer some questions as to why the Gorgon hasn't moved more decisively these past two millenia.

Epic level characters of different sorts, some or all of them with true bloodlines of Azrai, would definitely possess "special powers", maybe heirlooms, too (like Raesene's "Ring of the Chosen of Azrai," a ring of three wishes w/ 2 remaining).

Osprey

[epicsoul]

I seem to recall reading somewhere, perhaps in one of the PS books, that another one of the Lost had escaped, referring to him as the Lich. Now, this could be overlap, as it could be one and the same as one of the two now out. Because, again, if memory serves, it was driven back to the Shadow World. want to say it was in Anuire - does this ring any bells for anyone?

[Green Knight]

I seem to recall reading somewhere, perhaps in one of the PS books, that another one of the Lost had escaped, referring to him as the Lich. Now, this could be overlap, as it could be one and the same as one of the two now out. Because, again, if memory serves, it was driven back to the Shadow World. want to say it was in Anuire - does this ring any bells for anyone?

It does ring a bell, but only in relation to my current Ruins of Empire PBeM campaign. There is a Lost called the Lich there, that made some trouble in the early part of the game, but got banished for his trouble.

But as far as I know, there are no references to any 'Lich' in canon material.

[epicsoul]

LOL! That's how major your campaign is - I, a person who has never played in it, thought it was CANON!

Well done!

[Green Knight]

RoE Lost (not to be confused by the canon lost):

The Lich - A terible necromancer that escaped the fate of Azrai, and remained at large in the Daylight World after Deismaar. Tried to conquer Anuire, landing on the South Coast a few years after Deismaar with a great army raised in Aduria. Was defeated by the elves of the Erebannien, and imprissoned in stasis deep below the province of Shadowgreen.

Even in stasis his corruption has seeped into the roots of the Erebannien, especially in Shadowgreen, making that province a dark and dangerous place (often referred to as the Dark Heart of the Wood).

He was briefly freed from his captivity early in the RoE campaign by the Adurian necromancer Martok. He was ultimately re-imprissoned by a cabal of powerful priests and wizards, but not before almost overrunning Aerenwe. Now he sleeps once more below the roots of the great trees, and once again he imprissonment is imperfect.

The Lich is a major villain for the Wardens of the Erebannien, a domain of my creation centered on the Erebannien.

[Cesari]

The Lich is briefly mentioned in Player's Secrets of Ilien. He was a powerful wizard who came out of the Shadow World on the Eve of the Dead and was then sent back. It doesn't give much info, but he might be one of the Lost.

It was my understanding that the Lost were able to cast true magic because Azrai forged a connection between them and the Shadow World which allowed them to tap into its power. That connection drew them into the shadow when Azrai was defeated.

[Master Spaz]

This is my first publication here
don't hesitate to write me if you have any questions about Birthright
i play Birthright for now 11 years and i used all the rules and every single sentences in any books
honestly i was very interrested by this discussion about the Losts; they were my favorites magic users in the campaign.
Those who reported to the books of Blood spawn are right but those who reported to Baker's book are right too...
the solution is in the middle
Now, taken from my 2000 pages bible of Birthright; here is a complement to your listing:

According to a Birthright site in geocities (i can't find anymore) there was a Magician (one of the first being taught true magic by azraI) named Irogor Kortov in Aduria (in the Realm of Kiskum); that was part of his campaign but it is interresting;
the guy was surely one of your lost but stayed alive in a magic item only...

Now, how could you forget the mention in the Priestcraft at page 121:
it is explicitely writen; Atar was the first of Azrai unatural craetures, the disciples who were later known as the Lost
Atar was their leader... and it is writen that he finished his days... presumably... at Deismaar...
come on, you are in aFantastic World... he survived...lol

Ok we go on...
El Sheighul. it is incontestable as described in The cities of the sun booklet

Raven is a pure lost and is in life... (not in my campaign... lol)

I do invented another one if you want to take note... but he is dead too at Deismaar; he stood alive by being a lich (the same as for Sheigghul); Ian Le Fou is the conseillor mage of the Cold Rider Shadow Court (for the high lvl campaigns...) lol

About The lich, described in Illien's secret page 10; i dont think it is one of the lost... i guess it would have been written (in Birthright books, it is always suggested THAT IT COULD be ...)lol. For me, it is up to you;but really it is important to consider here the good work of interpretation done by Junior member Cesari; if this is to be true, there is a link here between the two (Azrai and the... so called lich) but i guessed it was an anwshegh... Maybe he was driven back in shadows and then beacamed Ian Le fou listed before... (lol)

Then, i never accredited Magian in the lost because he is described to come from a land far east. It is incertain that Azraï was at the same time on Djapar (but still possible); but the Magian come from a colony of the Eligian Empire (far south of Djapar) on the upper continent; this is a secret where i found this information... So Blood Spawn is a special book since it is not available on sale.. is it a real completed book? Just decide but I was surprised to learn so lately that the anwsegh was a lost; it would have been written in the Blood Ennemies. Just decide...

And it is sure that the Cold Rider itself IS NOT a lost,,, but the doomed spirit of the Azrai living force slaved on the Planet; (the same as described for Satan doom on Earth... surprised?)

In my campaigns, i always tryed to indulce in error my players aroud the lost theme; they were always believing some characters were actually some of the lost ; this stimulate research from the players on that topic.

At last we have 5 of them here at hand; 3 of them (Atar, Raven and el-Sheigghul) are definitly lost ones...
what to think about the eyeless one? living for so much years... he could have be one of em... (up to you... in my campaign he was not...)

Finally; about the topic of their special powers, i played them in special ways, particulary Atar, who were their leader; I decided Atar to have Archont powers; he was an archmage (having then the same level of priest magic than of wizard's) ouch... For he was so tied to Azrai, the god gived him a parcel of his power...

So i very hoped i helped you because I went trough a very vast research just for clarify the topic;
Thank you for reading me, and have a good life! And remember:

Birthright is THE game for the real players...

[Fizz]

So Blood Spawn is a special book since it is not available on sale.. is it a real completed book? Just decide but I was surprised to learn so lately that the anwsegh was a lost; it would have been written in the Blood Ennemies. Just decide...

Blood Spawn is a book written by Carrie Bebris and Ed Stark. Birthright was cancelled before it could be completed, and it was instead compiled as a download.

You can find it (and other items) here:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020121x5

From page 4: "Only two of them, the Raven and the Magian, are known to have found their way out."

Even if the Magian came from Djapar, that doesn't exclude him as one of the Lost.

As for el-Sheighül, one could say he has not really escaped the Shadow World. His intermittent time in Cerilia is very limited, and not by choice.

No one is contesting that Atar was one of the Lost- that's not the point. Just trying to figure out if the Magian is or not.


-Fizz

[Walter]

The Magian a lost? I dont think so. I read somewhere(could not remember where) that the magian claimed to be El-Arrashi, and he became a Lich to survive because he was poisened by the Serpent.

[geeman]

At 03:20 AM 3/2/2006, Walter wrote:

>The Magian a lost? I dont think so. I read somewhere(could not
>remember where) that the magian claimed to be El-Arrashi, and he
>became a Lich to survive because he was poisened by the Serpent.

Well, you can`t believe everything that comes out of a skull-faced
expansionistic dictator with seemingly mystical powers to control his
underlings. (Wasn`t that the theme of the last Democratic National
Convention?)

Anyway, here`s the Blood Spawn text regarding the Lost on p4 of that book:

"He [Azrai] taught his followers magic backed by the power of the
Seeming and made the most puissant of them--the Lost--one with the
power of the Shadow World.

Which, in the end, proved to be their downfall.

It can at last be revealed: The Lost gained their name through their
ties to the Shadow World and the Seeming. Using its power to create
shadows and illusions more real than those of their priestly foes,
the Lost gained great power quickly. But when Azrai was destroyed,
the Lost`s hold on Cerilia disappeared, and they were drawn through
the curtain and imprisoned in the Shadow World. Only two of them,
the Raven and the Magian, are known to have found their way
out.... No one knows how the Magian made his way back to Cerlia, but
the scars of the dreadful passage have marked his immortal form forever."

A few comments about that text:

1. It doesn`t actually say that the Lost were able to cast true
magic. They "create shadows and illusions more real than those of
their priestly foes" but that`s not the same as Fireballs by a pretty
good stretch. They are more powerful illusionists (read: BR
magicians) but it does not appear they were capable of casting true
magic. The Magian can _now_ but we don`t know how he got his
bloodline or many things about the nature of his origin that could
explain that. He, the Raven and the rest of the Lost may have
dropped a significant number of character levels as part of the death
of their patron... but gained bloodlines. That would explain quite a
bit, but I`m sure folks out in the fanbase can come up with their own
rationales.

2. A prestige class might be the best way to portray the
powers/abilities of the Lost in a 3e update of BR. At least it seems
more useful and rounded than something like a template or series of feats.

3. Azrai taught more of his followers than just the Lost how to
manipulate the Seeming. He merely reserved a sort of power/bonding
deal for them which made them more effective, but also tied them to
him through the SW. When he went pop they were trapped there.

Gary

[Satchkep45]

So, for Lost that we know of, we've got most definitely: The Raven,
El Sheighul (sp), 3) Atar (perhaps dead, perhaps is in the Shadow World still)and the Magian(Blood Spawn: "No one knows how the Magian made his way back to Cerilia, but the scars of the dreadful passage have marked his immortal form forever" pg 4-5).

Also in Blood Spawn we find reference to a Lost named Maccius:

"Several members of the Lost have created their own unique breeds of halfling spawn. Those of Macchius sport monkey tails, unusually long and sinuous arms, and clawed paws that allow the halfling spawn to swing from trees and move quickly through the dense, gnarled forests of the Shadow World." (pg 36)

The "Lich" referenced on page 10 in the Ilien book may have been one of the Raven's earlier appearences, maybe in the body of a reclusive Erebannien sorcerer. I could see the last of the elf lords who built The Storm Tower in Abbatuor desperately looked for a way to repel the human invaders and in the process invited a great shadow world spirit into his body... and fell to its power.

I have always believed that the only real gift that Azrai gave to the Lost was a true bloodline (the reason they have one today), which would have presumably given them the ability to cast true magic and possible realm magic. Perhaps the reason they cast primarily realisitic illusions was for cultural reasons... they were originally magicians and that was the basis of their knowledge. They did not come from cultures that had interacted with the Elves, so their knowledge of magic would have been limited to illusion, divination and priestly spells. Knowledge moves in increments and builds off of previous knowledge, even for evil geniuses. I think to reinforce the bloodline theory, we can see in Blood Spawn the tactics of the modern Cold Rider who imbues halfling domain lords with bloodlines:

"In exchange for their loyalty, he invests these followers with a seed of evil: a sliver of his own essence that takes the form of a tainted bloodline." (pg 33)