Sources of Magical Power and the People who use it

[Green Knight]

This entry has been revised, and is now posted in the Writer's Guild under the name "Workings of Magic".

[Lord Eldred]

Perhaps I missed what is wrong with the original way magic worked?!:P

[Green Knight]

Well, it actually worked fine with 2ed :P

Maybe its just me liking to tweak the rules here and there...

Couple of things I never liked:
1. Elves always seemed very druidish in their approach to magic. Still, druids use divine magic so thats out of the question.
2. But wait! Rangers also use divine magic - elves can't be rangers either. Either that or a major inconsistency.
3. Priests of Erik are druids. Thus they thrive on temple holdings. Yet they try to keep province levels down. Does that make sense?
4. Why are there a lot of empty sources in Rjurik?
etc.
etc.

Changing druidic magic from divine to arcane just makes sense to me. In fact, nature and mebhaighl is two sides of the same coin. Very strange if druids, who "worship" nautre, should be unable to tap it.
Solution:
1. Elves can be druids and rangers
2. Priests of Erik can be mulitclass druid/clerics - thus making it logical to want both sources and temples.
3. Explains the mpty sources in Rjurik - the druids have them...

[Arius Vistoon]

A)
psy isn't magic
B) three realm of magic......mentalism, channeling, essence..oh my god it's Rolemaster RPG.....
C) i agree with you and not...druid can believe in elemental force of nature not in deities ( ref complete manuel of priest ) and justifed Rjurik nation and permited effectively elf to become ranger etc... ok, but druid can also believe in deities ! It's just a vision of the world by DM, it's all...

[Green Knight]

A) Wheter or not you want to call Psionics magic or not depends. To me, its just another weird form of manipulating the world...
B) Oh no! Next: Magic Missile Criticals, Moving Maneuvers for Orogs in chain shirts!!!
C) Yes indeed, its only a matter of how you look at the world.

[Lord Valkyr]

The Druids holding the sources makes sense since its like the natural "force of life" etc. however they are from the priest class which would get their power from a god.
confusing situation.

[Green Knight]

Yes, exactly. That is why I propose changing druidic magic to arcane. Then there would be no connection to the gods.
Elves could then be druids, and you can even incorporate some 'sidhelien' spirituality' if you want. As for priests of Erik, they could multiclass into cleric/druids.

[Lord Eldred]

I would hate to see druids lose their cleric status since they have been tied to gods for all these years. However, what if druids casted both kinds of magic due to all the arguments you have made plus the fact they are tied to a god. Or does that make druids too powerful? Why do elves have to be druids? You seem to be stuck on that issue.

[Green Knight]

Elves don't HAVE to be druids. It just that I think the druid spell list and abilities are perhaps more in line with the nature of the sidhelien - connection to nature, the elements etc. Also, elves should still be able to be sorcerers and possibly wizards - I'm just looking for a way to lik druids to elves without linking elves to the gods.

There could very well be druids who are also connected to the gods. You could give druids of Erik 1/2 temple and 1/2 source regency. Elves should stick with full source though.

[Lord Eldred]

Why couldn't an elf become a druid and pray to Erik? I know that the Birthright rulebook indicated that Cerilian Elves do not have gods but it doesn't give an explanation. The 3e rules indicate there is a god of the elves and that they also follow the god of the forest (becoming druids) and some pray to other gods according to alignment. With the attachment that elves have to the forest why would they not become attached to a god of the forest?

[Green Knight]

No reason, except its very "unCerilian". The Sidhelien do not worship gods. Most likely they are unable to.

[Lord Eldred]

How can they be unable to pray to them? Do the gods not speak their language? Perhaps the gods won't listen to them because they are still angry about them originally being against them in the Great Battle. However, I could not see Erik staying mad at them long given the attachment they have to his realm! I still am looking for a good explanation.

[Green Knight]

The Sidhelien have never worshiped any gods. Why would they start now? There has to be a reason; either they can't or they won't. Either way, elves don't worship...

[Lord Eldred]

I don't buy that! There is no explanation of why they haven't worshiped a god. You mean to tell me there is no chance what-so-ever that an elf was converted to worship Erik. I don't see a reason as to why that chance would be eliminated.

[Lawgiver]

Orginally posted by Lord Eldred
I don't buy that! There is no explanation of why they haven't worshiped a god. You mean to tell me there is no chance what-so-ever that an elf was converted to worship Erik. I don't see a reason as to why that chance would be eliminated.

I wouldn't fully eliminate the possibility of a few rogue elves worshiping gods, but as a whole I veiw them as shunning the human's gods as much as shunning the humans who ruin their lands.

[Lord Eldred]

Other than Erik I wasn't really arguing that elves would worship human gods. I am arguing they would worship their own god as indicated in the 3e rules or whatever entity created them in Birthright.

[Green Knight]

Are you sure that the sidhelien were created by a god? Maybe they just evolved :)

I just can't see why elves would need human gods for all of a sudded. Why Erik, why not Haelyn, just because Erik likes nautre dosn't mean he'll have any appela to the elves. On the contrary, Reynir's druids surely helped kill just as many elves during the Hunt as Anduria's Clerics. Erik's followers are not any more friendly with the elves either.

I would think the sidhelien as a spiritual people, but not worshiping any gods.

[Lord Eldred]

Perhaps they did evolve as some would argue we have on earth yet we still worship a god. IF they did have a creator why wouldn't they worship him/her? No one seems to want to answer this question.

As far as human gods, I think that they would be rarely worshiped and you are right there is just as much chance that the God worship is Haelyn. I would think Elves that have left there homes to live with humans would have a chance to be converted to any god. As far as Erik is concerned his concern for nature would be an appeal, perhaps he directly appeared to some elves to get them to convert.

[Green Knight]

I still don't like it and can't find anything to support such a view. The sidhelien are very different from other races, and should be portrayed accordingly. All this talk of gods and creatuors and worship hold no meaning for them IMO.

I have to admitt though, that I to have allowed some elves to worship gods. This happened under some very special circumstances. The elves in question all renounced their immortality and many of their other powers to in effect become mortals. This then allowed them to worship gods and also enjoy an afterilfe when they died.

So I'm not COMPLETELY against the idea of worshipin' elves ;)

[Mithrandir]

Sorry to go off topic but can somebody please tell me what IMO means?

[Lawgiver]

Orginally posted by Mithrandir
Sorry to go off topic but can somebody please tell me what IMO means?

IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
HMO = Health Maintenance Organization

[Riegan Swordwraith]

My two bits......

IMO,elves did not worship any gods previous to the humans cause they did not want to.I do not beleive that elves never saw clerical magic beforehand as dwarves have gods as do the goblins.I beleive that they were simply too arrogant to worship a god.

Celtic druids did NOT worship nature,they worshipped GODS in nature.The set up there holy places deep in the forrests and mountains were they lived,where they beleived the veil between Tir NaNog and their world was thin and the magic was strongest from there.If you want,you can say that druids worship the elemental forces of nature.However,I still beleive that elves did not do that out of arrogance.

For some reason.it appears that everyone wants to beleive elves were totally innocent in their war with the humans.That is like saying AmerInds(American Indians) never done any wrong,they did.What I think happened was the anuireans got the elves going by the way they did things,such as clearing vast forrests to plant a couple of farms.By overhunting and damming up streams.That and just a continual push to grab more and more land.The elves probably started to sabotage logging equipment and other acts of annoyance.Then probably a human killed an elf he caught doing something to one of his saws and the BAM!!!!! you got bloodshed and everything just blew up from there.Now I do beleive that here the Anuireans were in the wrong here,but what about the Rjurik??I beleived that was mutual.The rjurik loved the same places the elves did.They would find a spot,cut down just enough trees to build their homes.They didn't overhunt,they didn't alter the landscape,they even didn't live in that same spot for the entire year.But the Rjurik did just move in,not asking if it was cool,and for that they were in the wrong.However the elves probably looked at the Rjurik as just more humans.To elven eyes a human is a human.If they would of stopped and looked,they would of realized the Rjurik were no threat.However the elves were left with a bad-taste in their mouths by the Anuireans and so pushed the Rjurik,who pushed back.The elves pushed harder,the Rjurik pushed back harder,until bloodshed and a viscous war ensued.

[Lord Eldred]

Again I would respectfully disagree that Elves did not follow Gods but I have given reasons under the Book of Days so you can go read them there.