Orogs

[Question]

Are they considered to be a race in their own right or are they a goblinoid sub type or something?

[irdeggman]

They are their own race.


In BR goblinoids tend to be surface creatures and didn't suffer any penalties for light. In BR goblinoids are

Orogs, on the other hand, were creatures from the underground (hence the bane of the dwarves since they fought for the same land as it was).

Make sure you don't step into the puddle that a lot of people do - they are not related to orcs in any way - nor are they the BR equivalent of orcs. They are tougher, smarter and better organized.

BRCS Chap 9 (Creatures):




Goblin, Cerilian

All goblinoids are viewed by Cerilians as part of one species – thus, goblinkind is divided into small goblins (goblins), medium goblins (hobgoblins) and large goblins (bugbear). They generally live in intermixed tribes, with common/small goblins accounting for about 50% of the population, medium goblins for about 30% and large goblins for about 20%. The favored class for all types of goblins in Cerilia is barbarian. Cerilian goblins are as likely to have character levels as humans; many are fierce warriors that are equal to all but the mightiest of heroes. Cerilian goblins may learn the wolfrider feat. Common and elite goblins are +0 ECL races; huge goblins are a +3 ECL race.



Orog

Medium-Size Humanoid (Orog)


Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)

Initiative: +0

Speed: 20 ft. (banded mail), base 30 ft.

AC: 18 (+6 banded mail, +2 large shield)

Attacks: Battleaxe +5 melee or light crossbow +2 ranged

Damage: Battleaxe 1d8+3 or light crossbow 1d8

Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.

Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., Light sensitivity

Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1

Abilities: Str 17, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 8

Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3, Ride +2, Warcraft +3

Feat: Power Attack

Climate/Terrain: Any mountains and underground


Organization: Gang (2-5), band (5-50 plus one 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults and one 5th-level leader), or tribe (20-200 plus one 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, one 5th-level lieutenant per 50 adults and one chieftain of 7th-9th level)

Challenge Rating: 2

Treasure: Standard

Alignment: Usually neutral evil

Advancement: By character class

Orogs are a subterranean race of miners and warriors that inhabit Cerilia’s mountain ranges. They consider all other races to be their foes, and constantly wage war upon them. Orogs are slightly taller than humans, and more powerfully built, with a somewhat apish face and long arms. They have hairless skin, ranging in color from leathery gray to black. Orogs speak their own language; most also speak dwarven, and many learn other tongues as well.

Combat

Orogs are excellent planners and strategists, and strive to maximize advantages and minimize weaknesses in combat, in a fairly rational manner. Orogs sometimes ride large, subterranean lizards into combat, equal to 5 HD giant lizards.

Light sensitivity: Orogs receive are nauseated by sunlight and even other light sources, suffering a -1 circumstance penalty to all attack rolls while in sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

Skills: Orogs receive a +2 racial bonus on warcraft checks.

Orog characters

The favored class for orogs is fighter. Like humans, most Orogs have a PC or NPC character class. Orog leaders are usually fighters, assisted by adepts and clerics. Orog clerics worship Torazan, and can access any two of the domains noted for that god. Orogs are a +3 ECL race.

[Fizz]

Yup, definitely not goblins. And definitely not orcs. Though i have heard some people compare them to uruk-hai, given they are tougher, smarter and better organized (but sensitive to light, and riding giant lizards). It's only a slightly better comparison.

Are there any really good pictures of orogs? I doubt the sketch on the card that comes with the BR boxed set does them justice.

Favored class of Barbarian for all goblin types? Hmmm... i'd have thought rogue for the small variety.

-Fizz

[geeman]

At 09:42 PM 12/11/2005, Question wrote:

>Are they considered to be a race in their own right or are they a
>goblinoid sub type or something?

When BR came out "orogs" were a subclass of orcs; they were the
half-race mix of orc and ogre. Though there are ogres there are no
orcs in BR or, at least, none are ever mentioned existing on Cerilia
nor on any of the nearby continents (though our info on them is
somewhat slim) so orogs would, at least, be considered "a race in
their own right" in at least three senses. First, they are not
related to goblins--at least, they are not comparatively any more
closely to goblins than other Cerilian races like gnolls or humans,
for that matter. Second, they have their own, distinct nation/states
at the domain level of play and they do not "intermix" any more than
any other race (less, really) of the continent. That is, one isn`t
going to give a lot of orogs living amongst goblins any more than one
finds dwarves living among humans. There are some Cerilian
"wildlands" where various races live in tribal kinds of arrangements,
but in those regions orogs are no more likely to blend in with other
races than any other. Third, they do not mix genetically with any
other race. There are half-elves in Cerilia, so in this sense orogs
are their own race more than either humans or elves.

Gary

[ausrick]

IIRC Orogs and Ogrillons in other campaign settings were half-breed creatures, but In BR I've always been under the impression that they were a race of their own. The total non-existance of orcs also would lend to this interpretation. In the original boxed set there was an Orog 8.5"x11" insert sheet that had a full picture of an Orog, I don't have it in hand, but IIRC it was kind of a large, muscular looking human, very barbaric face, tusks coming up from the lower jaw. Blueish gray skin, and wearing what looked like eastern-flavoured armor, with a scimitar I think. This is all from memory as I haven't looked at that picture in maybe a couple of years.

[Rhiannon Faramiriel]

I think you're right Ausrick. That is the mental impression I have of them.

Jenn

[ausrick]

Just saw a picture of one under their entry in the downloadable BRCS playtest. It looked as I remembered except it had brownish skin. Also, from what I could tell it had what looked to be a spangenhelm with maybe an arabian/asian flair and antlers. . . Where would an entirely subterranian race get stag antlers? The picture I remember from the past had them too. Underdark Stag? or is there a story behind this that someone would know?

[Doyle]

<snip> Also, from what I could tell it had what looked to be a spangenhelm with maybe an arabian/asian flair and antlers. . . Where would an entirely subterranian race get stag antlers? The picture I remember from the past had them too. Underdark Stag? or is there a story behind this that someone would know?


IMC (and probably based on a mis-reading of the Orog / Goblin card that comes with the boxed set), but I've always played that a set of (small) antlers are as much a part of the Orog as it's oversized tusks. Now that I think of it, it's probably more that I thought that such an inconvenient natural item to have for fighting with melee weapons would suit such a proud / egotistical species.

[geeman]

At 11:10 AM 12/13/2005, ausrick wrote:

>Just saw a picture of one under their entry in the downloadable BRCS
>playtest. It looked as I remembered except it had brownish
>skin. Also, from what I could tell it had what looked to be a
>spangenhelm with maybe an arabian/asian flair and antlers. . . Where
>would an entirely subterranian race get stag antlers? The picture I
>remember from the past had them too. Underdark Stag? or is there a
>story behind this that someone would know?

That`s really funny. I`d never given it much thought before, but
you`re quite right. Antlers wouldn`t be very helpful when trying to
squirm around underground through tight quarters. Of course, in D&D
there isn`t really any penalty for such a thing, but realistically it
would probably be a problem. Some comments:

1. Orogs aren`t an entirely underground species. In fact, they have
some rather large above ground nations--just not any in Anuire, where
they are relegated to the depths of the earth. It has been presented
that the dwarves of Baruk-Azhik are fighting a losing war with the
orogs, but it might actually be the other way around, or the tide of
the war shifting in favor of the orogs might be a recent thing. The
orogs might be ones who have been hard-pressed. They would prefer to
live above ground, but are forced to live as they do by other
Anuirean races, particularly the dwarves of BA.

2. Maybe orogs have taken to the underground fairly recently in their
history--in the last few thousand years. After developing in the
open surface of Cerilia their war with dwarves, elves and humans led
to them being forced deeper into the earth. That would seem the most
likely rationale for their strange physical attributed in relation to
underground living.

3. Their antlers need not really be THAT big. Such things can, after
all, break or be trimmed, sharpened, etc. Those orogs who live above
ground might find pride or even vanity in their horns, but the ones
who fight with the dwarves of Baruk-Azhik might lose theirs as part
of their underground existence. They might even cut them off--an act
of supreme humiliation--in order to survive underground. I can
picture a whole system of ritualistic antler trimming as part of a
ceremony that marks an orog warriors passage into manhood (oroghood?)
in which he swears never to allow his antlers to grow fully while his
people are suppressed. This would help explain their hatred of those
who dwell above ground, or who force them to live below the surface.

4. The population of orogs that live in the mountains under BA and
the lands of the Chimaera are completely undocumented. We have no
idea what their population might be. I suspect they must exist in
numbers that are roughly equal if not a little larger than those of
the dwarves of BA since they are supposedly winning that war against
the dwarves, but since that war has been going on for a very long
time it is possible that something else is a factor in that
process. It`s a fairly standard fantasy theme that the farther one
delves into the depths of the earth the more likely one is to run
into bigger, nastier things. Perhaps the orogs have found something
that has led to their resurgence in the battle against the dwarves?

Gary

[Fizz]

I'll check the picture from the original boxed set when i get home, but it seems to me the antlers were part of a helmet, not the orog itself.

-Fizz

[Rhiannon Faramiriel]

If I remember that pic in the boxed set, I always thought that the antlers were part of the helmet. I seem to remember another pic might be from the Sword and Crown that showed orogs and they didn't have antlers, just a robust physique and tusks.

[irdeggman]

That's how I viewed it too - a helmet.

[Fizz]

OK, i found the picture. Horns look like they're on the helmet to me.

http://users.lmi.net/~fizz/orog.jpg

-Fizz

[geeman]

At 07:35 PM 12/14/2005, Fizz wrote:

>OK, i found the picture. Horns look like they`re on the helmet to me.

I`m sure you`re right, but I like the idea of them having antlers (or
at least horns) now, so I might just go with that....

Gary

[Lee]

In a message dated 12/14/05 4:47:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:

<< Doyle wrote:
<snip> Also, from what I could tell it had what looked to be a spangenhelm
with maybe an arabian/asian flair and antlers. . . Where would an entirely
subterranian race get stag antlers? The picture I remember from the past had them
too. Underdark Stag? or is there a story behind this that someone would
know? >>

Maybe that is the special helm worn by the elite top-of-the-world orog
raiders, the ones who volunteer to leave their homes to patrol the Overworld? An
orog fighter must quest to receive his antlers, much as a human knight wants to
win his spurs.

Lee.

[Sorontar]

If you were to take the antlers as a sign of rank....
1) Run-of-the-mill orog - antlers cutdown to stub
2) Basic warrior - antlers cutdown to a stub or slightly poking out.
3) Senior warrior - one or two limbs of the antlers are allowed
4) Junior "Nobility" - one or two limbs
5) Medium "Nobility" - a small set of full antlers
6) Top "Nobility" - full set of antlers

So the higher the rank, the more impressive the antlers. Otherwise, you are socially forced to trim them according to your station. The adornment with metal tips etc works in the same way.

I believe that medieval rules for crowns and coronets worked in a similar way (may be just for English heraldry). Your rank was indicated by the type of crown or coronet that is above your heraldic arms. And Scottish tartan colours (pre-clan tartans) and feathers in the cap are similarly restricted by your clan rank.

The point is that those of high rank don't need to get through tight spaces and have already proved that they are great warriors, so large antlers aren't an issue. They can cope with it.

Of course, you could just make them part of a cap :^)

Sorontar.

[Green Knight]

Some suggestions to the orog, to whomever is updating it to v.3.5

1. Since it has 3 HD it needs another feat. Give it Weapon Focus (battleaxe).
2. Give it usefull skills. Orog cavalry (such as there is) will have Ride, but the rest will not. Only commanders need the Warcraft skill.
3. Give it better darkvision (90 or even 120). Make orogs be blinded for 1 round by bright light, and dazzled thereafter.

B

[Osprey]

Some suggestions to the orog, to whomever is updating it to v.3.5

1. Since it has 3 HD it needs another feat. Give it Weapon Focus (battleaxe).
2. Give it usefull skills. Orog cavalry (such as there is) will have Ride, but the rest will not. Only commanders need the Warcraft skill.
3. Give it better darkvision (90 or even 120). Make orogs be blinded for 1 round by bright light, and dazzled thereafter.

Weapon Focus is good, but I'd leave the choice of weapon either open, or provide a variable list like: Battle Axe, Longspear, or Heavy Crossbow. I believe this is reflective of the 3 main unit types from the 2e warcards [Orog (heavy) Infantry, Pikemen, and Crossbowmen]. Someone please correct em if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I've looked at them. Anyways, showing some diversity in weapon preference helps to exemplify the tactical nature of orogs: there's different tools (and fighters) for different jobs, best used in mixed groups - so a typical orog patrol might be a mix of 1st rank axemen, 2nd rank pikemen, and 3rd rank crossbowmen or archers.

If Orogs are to retain their racial bonus to Warcraft checks, then it makes sense to me that the typical orog warrior would have a few ranks in it. Perhaps what this signifies is that the orog race isn't so fixated on hereditary positions as humans are, but are more meritocratous in nature - i.e., it is skill, talent, and achievement that lead to promotion as officers and leaders, rather than one's luck of birth.

Several ranks of warcraft also signifies that every orog warrior is trained with a basic understanding of tactics and strategy, which reinforces their depiction as canny fighters who tend to think before they act.

Some other suggestions for basic Orog skills: Listen (essential underground, where LOS is often limited by twisting tunnels), Move Silently and Hide (key skills for ambushers), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Profession (Miner), Profession (Soldier), and Wilderness Survival, plus Ride for cavalry troopers.

What IS the preferred weapon for orog cavalry, anyways? Do they use spears or lances for charge effect, or just standard melee weapons?

Bjorn, I like your ideas, especially concerning bright light effects. I agree, 120' darkvision coupled with continuous daylight impairment makes perfect sense.

Osprey

[Green Knight]

Following this line of thought - IMC I have done away with racial hit dice for humanoid races.

Orogs have (mostly) warrior levels instead, with the average orog soldier being a 3rd lvl warrior. From there I've made several variations to the orog - standard infantry with WF (battleaxe or longsword) and Power Attack, archers with PB Shot and WF (bow) etc. I've also made several orog veterans/NCO-equivalents with 4-7 levels of Warrior.

Works wonderfully.

B