Birthright / Spelljammer crossover

[Delazar]

Must be that time of the year (or decade) again!

I know of the existance of this:

http://sjml.spelljammer.org/archive/mpgn/199804/27-000012.html

I appreciate the effort, but I was wishing for a Birthright-sphere with more involvement of the common tropes of the BR setting. Fighting wars, ruling domains, the bloodlines, etc.

So I'm working (big word) on my own conversion, and I was thinking to go about it like this:

Apart from Aebrynis, there are 7 other planets, the very homes of the ancient gods (Anduiras, Reynir, Vorynn, etc.)

Each of this planet is strongly aligned to the theme of the ancient gods (for example, Anduiras is a Air planet, ruled by a caste of noble warriors). Each planet is so impregnated with the essence of one god, that the ruling elite of each planet is able to manifest Blood Abilites, and rule the land (same as in Aebrynis).

By ancient agreements, the leader of each planet had decided to protect Aebrynis from any outside influence, keeping the people of that world cut away from Spelljamming influences. The reason being that Aebrynis was a world created by all 7 gods in a joint effort to create a planet where "balance" could be achieved. They all sent a fraction of their people, those without blood abilities, to colonize this young world.

This of course all went bad when Azrai tried to dominate Aebrynis, then the gods had to intervene directly, and we all know how that ended up.

When the gods died, the people of the 7 planets decided to keep the standing agreement, and not interfering with Aebrynis. Of course here and there someone broke the deal, but never on such a scale as to make the people of Aebrynis aware of the full idea of Spelljamming.

The 7 planets now protect Aebrynis from any outside influence, while warring with each other for domination of the Sphere.

Ok, this is all a chaotic idea inside my brain for the moment, but I'd like to hear some thoughts if you're interested.

Ideas for the 7 planets:

Andoran - air planet, several floating island ruled by orders of Knights
Rynnar - live planet, huge forests
Barenna - merchant planet
El-bassah - asteroids around the sun, powerful fire mages
Messala - water planet, Masetians are still alive, great explorers
Vossar - Vos-like people, but less warlike, and more inclined to magic-use?
Azath - the dark planet, albino humans with snake-like features

[Fizz]

Must be that time of the year (or decade) again!

Or maybe you have been influenced by New Horizons encounter with Pluto and are feeling all space-y. :)

Interesting ideas. It raises many questions.

Do the new gods know about the other planets? As mortals, they may not have, but they're gods now and might have figured it out.

If they know, do the new gods travel to the other planets? Where do they live?

Do the people of the original 7 miss their old gods? Do they follow the new gods?


Lots of places you can go with this.


-Fizz

[Delazar]

Do the new gods know about the other planets? As mortals, they may not have, but they're gods now and might have figured it out.


Yes, I would say they definitely figured it out, especailly since so many centuries have passed since the death of the previous gods



If they know, do the new gods travel to the other planets? Where do they live?

The new gods live in the Outer Planes, as per Book of Priestcraft. They do not visit the other planets any more than they visit Aebrynis, but they realize that the people of the 7 planets are more "aware" of th cosmos, and more aligned to a specific "belief" so they agree that Aebrynis must be protected from outside influences.



Do the people of the original 7 miss their old gods? Do they follow the new gods?


I would say they follow the new gods, especially those that inherited the most from the origianl gods. Of course, each planet has a dominant god, and they may even use the name of the old god. For example, revering Haelyn as Anduirasson, or the Scion of Anduiras, something like that.

[Sorontar]

So do the planets have the same variety of bloodlines as Aebrynis? Or are they mainly just the bloodline of the resident old god? What about the other gods like Moradin?

And can leylines cross planets? Is there Mebhaighl on these planets? How is the Shadow World accessed? Can you move from the Shadow World to one of these planets?

Sorontar

[Delazar]

So do the planets have the same variety of bloodlines as Aebrynis? Or are they mainly just the bloodline of the resident old god? What about the other gods like Moradin?

I guess the "main" bloodline, also the one of the ruling caste, would be the one of the old resident god. But of course, due to millenias of spelljamming travels, all bloodlines can be found in each planet. It would actually be interesting to have one planet government striving for "blood purity" and actively hunting other bloodlines on its planet.

Moradin has not much to do with bloodlines, so he would be handled like any other god that did not die at Deismaar. I'm actually thinking that due to spelljamming, probably some foreign (other campaign settings) faiths could be found on the planets.


And can leylines cross planets? Is there Mebhaighl on these planets?

If I remember correctly, mebhaighl has nothing to do with bloodlines, nor with the power granted by the death of the gods? I would say that the mebhaighl is kind of like "the Force", a weave of magical energies that allow the use of powerful spells. So yes, it would be present also on the other planets. Unless for variety's sake I could have one of the planets use a different source of magical power, like the Shadow plane itself. "Shadow-mebhaighl", a bit like the negative-weave of the Forgotten Realms.

I'm not sure about having ley-lines crossing the void, but it's certainly intriguing.


How is the Shadow World accessed? Can you move from the Shadow World to one of these planets?


The Shadow World is one more plane of existence, so I would treat it like the others (Heaven, Hell, Astral, Ethereal, etc). So yes, it's accessible from the other planets, maybe more in some (Azath) than in others (Andoran).

[Delazar]

Andoran: A World of Valour 1760

Andoran is an air planet, a sphere of sapphire-coloured breathable air, surrounding thousands of floating islands. The islands vary in size from a few hundred meters to thousands of miles across.

Knightly orders of humans rule the islands from their mighty castles, patrolling the skies and the void on their lion-headed warships.

Up in the mountains, small communities of Air Genasi gather in villages or monasteries, seeking communion with the spirits of the wind, while noble dwarves mine the rich veins of the core.

Climate and Terrain

Andoran is blessed with spring-like weather all year round, though strong winds are constantly sweeping the rocky islands. Huge clouds travel among the floating continents, sometimes bringing storms and the occasional Cloud Giant citadel for a quick visit to the towns of the knights.

The floating islands are mostly rocky, with impressive mountain ranges, and mighty rivers cascade over the edges to create wonderful rainbows in the all-encompassing sky. The knights and the genasi build their fortresses and monasteries on the sides of the mountains, creating a majestic view that has awed many visitors from all over the crystal sphere.

Denizens

All kinds of flying creature call Andoran home, including creatures of elemental air. Among the clouds, cloud giants and silver and golden dragons are said to make their homes.

Civilisations

The Andorans are humans of the same stock of the Anuireans, the proud heirs of the legacy of Anduiras, god of valour. Several knightly orders rule the floating islands, chief among them the Holy Order of the Lionheart. The knights take their duties very seriously, and are the most prominent enforcers of the ancient oath to keep Aebrynis safe from external influences.

The Air Genasi living on Andoran are a peaceful people, calling themselves the Vaati. They do not take part in the struggles of the Andoran Knights, but enjoy a meditative life of self-improvement and calm contemplation. They are famous for their works of art and the fine objects they craft.

A thriving community of Dwarves from can be found in the deep reaches of the mountains. the dwarves despise flying, and prefer to remain in their underground citadels.

Resources

Andoran’s mountains are rich with all sorts of minerals. Dwarves and humans mine together, and forge wonderful armaments for the knights, while a rising mercantile caste trades the surplus to the other planets for food and wood.

The Vaati art is prized in the whole sphere, and it provides a steady income for the whole planet through the taxes the knights impose on all sort of transaction.

[Delazar]

Azath: The Snake's Pit 1761

Azath is dead. This relatively small planet is composed of black rock and obsidian. Here and there mighty volcanos spill rivers of magma, while where the land is more soft, huge swamps extends for hundreds of miles.

Only the forsaken and the lost inhabit this forlorn planet.

Climate and Terrain

Azath is plagued by extreme temperatures. Near the active volcanos, the heat is almost unbearable, while in the swamps the humidity makes living for warm blooded creatures a nightmare. The obsidian plains are frozen in the night, a traveller should also have powerful magic or proper gear before venturing there.

The main features of Azath are his volcanos, sometimes soaring up to 10 miles high, and its endless swamps. The most inhabited zones are the obisidian plains, where the Azathians dig deep pits, building their home on the sides of the excavated rock. The City of Endless Night goes to a depth of 3 miles, and it's the home of one of the High Archon of Azath, Lord Neratiz.

Denizens

Azath is shrouded in the power of Shadow, and the border with the Shadow world is very easy to cross all over the planet. For this reason, undead and shadow creatures abound.

The swamps are also home of all sorts of nasty creatures, from spiders, to snakes, to black dragons.

Civilisations

The Azathians are mostly human, but after millenias of being bathed in dark energies they have mutated slightly. They're white skinned, with pale hair ranging from a sickly yellow to pure white. Often, their eyes have slit pupils, and some have forked tongues. They rule Azath with a iron fist, cruelly enslaving the less organized humanoids on the planet.

All sorts of goblinoids live on Azath, mostly gathering in slave-tribes subjected to the Azathians. Slavery is so ingrained in these sad creatures way of life, that they consider it completely normal. They are allowed to bear arms, but would never raise them against their masters.

Deep in the swamps, the Yuan-ti thrive in their ziggurats, served by their lizardfolk slaves. The snake people have limited contact with the Azathians, but they consider themselves the true heris of Azrai. A conflict is inevitable.

Resources

No one trust the Azathians, and they engage in little trade, mostly stealing from those ships that fly too near to their planet.

Azathians are expert miners, but their planet offers little reward. Azathian necromancers raise undead workforce to limit the expenses, and sometimes offer their services to rising warlords.

[Sorontar]

Mebhaighl is what gives sources their power. The level of a source's power depends on its location. Mage regents need sources and true magic needs mebhaighl. Hence, without mebhaighl in the land you control, you can't have Realm Magic (according to Birthright rules) and regency for Mages. Mages are the only ones who can truely work with mebhaighl but mages must be blooded to do so.

Of course, you can adapt it for the crossover but that is why I asked. Do you need to adapt it?

Also, if the Shadow World is another plane, does its connection seep through to the other planets, or just Aebrynis? Does this leak interfere with spelljamming?

Sorontar

[Delazar]

Yes, since mebhaighl is necessary to access "true" magic, it will definitely be present on the planets, and in the void. As I mentioned before, i would treat it like "the Force" of Star Wars.

The Shadow World will interact with the other planets in the same way as it interacts with Aebrynis. Some planets will have a deeper connection to it than others (see Azath). Regarding spelljamming and Shadow, I'm now thinking some civilizations could have a developed an Helm powered by shadow energies... mh...

[Sarelth]

How would Elves fit into this? In most Spelljammer Spheres the Elven Navy has a large impact on things. Do the Birthright Elves also have a Major role or perhaps the Elven Navy from other Spheres has made contact with the backwater Elves of Aebrynis in some way.

Sage from other Spheres could be found on some of the world researching the Bloodlines in hopes of unlocking the secret for future use. There could also be a hidden dark force that seeks to obtain bloodlines through any means.

I could also see the Sphere having many habitable worlds that work like Dmoains/provinces with the factions fighting for control of. Normal domain rules on a galactic scale if you will.

[AndrewTall]

With mebhaighl indicating strong magic I would expect that the elven navy is very interested in Cerilia, possibly it could be a nursery for their ships to grow in?

An interesting idea is planetary alignments causing temporary surges is (awn) mebhaighl, if they can affect the tides, why not mebhaighl?

An opposing idea is perhaps that mebhaighl interferes with spelljamming helms, in which case you would have relatively rare visits to the surface (keeping it isolated). So for example you could rule that helms can be overloaded if near a province where a realm spell was used, given the cost of helms that would keep the jammers very wary of going down to the surface, while leaving the rest of the sphere open for BR-themed specials.

Given that the Elves use living ships and are more closely tied to mebhaighl you could have them more able to land, or endure mebhaighl storms in space giving them an edge against others and reason to make something special of the sphere.

[Fizz]

An interesting idea is planetary alignments causing temporary surges is (awn) mebhaighl, if they can affect the tides, why not mebhaighl?

Well, planetary alignments do not affect tides. Only the moon is close enough to do that. (Well, on Earth at least, can't definitively speak for Aebrynis. :) )

But it's an interesting idea. Perhaps Aebrynis's moon could affect mebhaighl in some way- waxing and waning levels of power twice per day. In which case, it could also affect a jammer and where / when they land on the surface. So it'd be completely analagous to how the tides affect ships in the ocean. Always easiest to enter/leave a dock at slack water.


-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

Well, planetary alignments do not affect tides. Only the moon is close enough to do that. (Well, on Earth at least, can't definitively speak for Aebrynis. :) )

But it's an interesting idea. Perhaps Aebrynis's moon could affect mebhaighl in some way- waxing and waning levels of power twice per day. In which case, it could also affect a jammer and where / when they land on the surface. So it'd be completely analagous to how the tides affect ships in the ocean. Always easiest to enter/leave a dock at slack water.


-Fizz

Doh, sorry Fizz, brain spasm from way to far back, should have thought of the inverse square law not old sci-fi movies and suchlike.

Per Nasa: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast04may_1m/
Venus, the most influential planet, has a whopping max impact of 0.005 cm, let us all say woot woot in unison.

Hmm, natural mebhaighl tides, sounds interesting, though continuing my onset of senility I can't even remember if Aebrynis has 1 moon or more.

The worry about Jammer's landing, quite aside from the contamination of cultures issue, is that if Jammers can readily take off and land, they reduce ocean trade route journey times from months to hours, at which point Jammers don't jam, they just hop. Mebhaighl potentially damaging the helms stops the repeat landing issue at least locally...

[Fizz]

Doh, sorry Fizz, brain spasm from way to far back, should have thought of the inverse square law not old sci-fi movies and suchlike.

Per Nasa: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast04may_1m/
Venus, the most influential planet, has a whopping max impact of 0.005 cm, let us all say woot woot in unison.

Heh... no worries. This is a world with magic, so the normal rules of physics don't have to always apply. Fascinating link, i'd not seen that before.


Hmm, natural mebhaighl tides, sounds interesting, though continuing my onset of senility I can't even remember if Aebrynis has 1 moon or more.

I don't think Aebrynis has more than one- i've never read anything saying otherwise.


The worry about Jammer's landing, quite aside from the contamination of cultures issue, is that if Jammers can readily take off and land, they reduce ocean trade route journey times from months to hours, at which point Jammers don't jam, they just hop. Mebhaighl potentially damaging the helms stops the repeat landing issue at least locally...

Yeah. I don't know the details about how fast Jammers can travel, but maybe there is a way to make short distance travel impractical. Maybe short jaunts take too long to get to orbit and back, or it's simply cost-prohibitive. But no doubt such a technology would have a profound impact.

-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

I don't think Aebrynis has more than one- i've never read anything saying otherwise.

Which doesn't of course mean very much, the books covers the holdings mainly...


Yeah. I don't know the details about how fast Jammers can travel, but maybe there is a way to make short distance travel impractical. Maybe short jaunts take too long to get to orbit and back, or it's simply cost-prohibitive. But no doubt such a technology would have a profound impact.-Fizz

Page 51 of the Concordance of Arcane space states that it takes 1 turn to get out of the gravity well of a class A world (less than 10 miles across), 2 turns for B&C (10-1000 miles across), 3 turns for D (1-4k miles across), 4 turns for E (4-10k miles across), 6 turns for F (10k-40k miles across), 12 turns for G (40k-100k miles across), etc.

Page 52 has a jammer travel 100 million miles a day.

Page 53 gives the travel time (surface to surface) of earth to Mars as 80 turns to 2.3 days depending on their respective place on their orbits. Nasa eat your heart out...

So taking off from, say, the south of Aduria with a hold full of spice and landing off the north of Vosgaard to sell them would be a trip of 8 turns, so 1 hour and 20 minutes.

That sort of speed does horrible things to trade between different parts of the same planet so I usually did a pre-emptive 'try it and the helm may blow' approach, not the most elegant solution but fortunately my players were never into breaking the economic system.

[Fizz]

Which doesn't of course mean very much, the books covers the holdings mainly...

That's true. I think my impression has also come from Ruornil- he's *the* moon god, not *A* moon god or god of the *moons* (plural). So in canon, it may not be specified anywhere- we just know there's at least one.

But if you did have multiple moons, they maybe that would work well with your notion of lunar alignments and mebhaighl. Certainly be easy enough to add a couple, and with a bit of hand-waving, i could see that working well.


Page 53 gives the travel time (surface to surface) of earth to Mars as 80 turns to 2.3 days depending on their respective place on their orbits. Nasa eat your heart out...

Totally impressive. Surprised Robert Zubrin hasn't caught on... heh.


So taking off from, say, the south of Aduria with a hold full of spice and landing off the north of Vosgaard to sell them would be a trip of 8 turns, so 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Impressive. Now, Nasa can do something similar- modern rockets get to low Earth orbit in under 20 minutes, and do a complete orbit in about 90 minutes. But it's not economically viable to do so routinely. So is there a reason or way to make a significant cost associated with a sub-orbital jaunt?

What powers the Jammers? If it is mebhaighl, then maybe it requires a source, like casting a realm spell perhaps? Just a thought...


-Fizz

[AndrewTall]

Impressive. Now, Nasa can do something similar- modern rockets get to low Earth orbit in under 20 minutes, and do a complete orbit in about 90 minutes. But it's not economically viable to do so routinely. So is there a reason or way to make a significant cost associated with a sub-orbital jaunt?

What powers the Jammers? If it is mebhaighl, then maybe it requires a source, like casting a realm spell perhaps? Just a thought...

-Fizz

Hi Fizz

I think that you need to get out of the gravity well to get to spell jamming speeds, but I can't see anything canon to stop orbital jaunts, and when you consider the profits to be made on a ship load of spices from half way around the world there needs to be something to stop them.

Jammers run on generic magic, I would expect mebhaighl to super-charge them, which could be good or bad depending on how you interpret it.

You could say that too long near mebhaighl could risk overloading a helm for example.

[nickgreyden]

You also have to consider that "magic" doesn't work for just anyone, at least not in core Birthright. You have to be blooded else you are just a "magician". It could be another reason they don't show up. It isn't due to overloading, it is due to the fact becoming stranded is a very real possibility if you need a caster because the guy at the helm is dead.

[arpig2]

Regarding the question of moons, there is but a single lunar deity, so that implies a single moon.

[AndrewTall]

You also have to consider that "magic" doesn't work for just anyone, at least not in core Birthright. You have to be blooded else you are just a "magician". It could be another reason they don't show up. It isn't due to overloading, it is due to the fact becoming stranded is a very real possibility if you need a caster because the guy at the helm is dead.

Good point Nick, if the wizard just loses spell casting you are stranded at best. Priests might have the same issue unless the BR powers support them. I suspect that the unusual cosmology might impact the normal celestian/ptah works anywhere approach.


Regarding the question of moons, there is but a single lunar deity, so that implies a single moon.
Agreed, although canon don't go into theology in any depth, so if someone wanted to they could have lesser moons for Ruornils saints, heroes, visible only to his most faithful followers, etc (like Nuitiari in Dragonlance).

[the Silver Prince]

Ideas for the 7 planets:

Andoran - air planet, several floating island ruled by orders of Knights
Rynnar - live planet, huge forests
Barenna - merchant planet
El-bassah - asteroids around the sun, powerful fire mages
Messala - water planet, Masetians are still alive, great explorers
Vossar - Vos-like people, but less warlike, and more inclined to magic-use?
Azath - the dark planet, albino humans with snake-like features

Weird, I also had a similar idea to the planets of Birthspace/Bloodspace except mine had only 5 planets.

These were (in order):
Sun (Basaia)
Water planet with islands and archipelagos (Masela)
Aebrynis with moon (Vorynn)
Twilight planet filled with forests (Reynir)
Ring of asteroids with cities devoted to trade and mining (Brenna)
Large air planet with rings (Anduiras)
Icy dark planet very far from the sun (Azrai)

None of the planets except Aebrynis had a moon(s). And the moon of Aebrynis was a silvery desert.