Question on usurping a realm

[Lee]

I don't have my 2nd ed. book to hand, just the 3.0/3.5 conversion.

I may have this wrong, but wasn't it possible for someone slaying a regent to inherit not only their bloodline, but their realm, too? Provinces and all? I'm looking, but not seeing, anything like that in the 3e BRCS, only bloodline usurpation.

Can someone point this out to me?

My (Pathfinder Kingmaker) campaign is nearing a point where a rival ruler is about to go down, and I'd like to have my rules fixed in my head before I go and make silly rulings.

[AndrewTall]

You'd need a forced investiture I think - if captive the regent to be divested couldn't spend regency to oppose the investiture, but you couldn't just kill them and take everything - thus giving even captive regents some leverage in negotiations to win a position as a vassal, cash exit, etc.

[arpig2]

No, the closest you come to that is by using a bloodsilver weapon which causes all the victim's holdings to become uncontrolled rather than passing to the heir.
Basic Bloodtheft rules.
1. Heir gets the domain
2. Victim's RP lost unless the victim is the last of his line, then all his RP go to the killer.
3. Slayer adds 1 point to bloodline if the victims bloodline was weaker than his, 2 if it was stronger.
3a. If the victim was the last of his line then the slayer adds 1 to his bloodline for every 5 points of bloodline the victim had. (It doesn't specify if you should round up or down)

Bloodsilver
1. Slayer adds 1/2 the value of the victim's bloodline to his own
2. The victim's heir does not inherit and all the victim's holdings pop free - FEEDING FRENZY!!!.

This is per page 31 of the Rulebook There may be something further in one of the supplements but I don't recall anything.

[Lee]

OK, must just be my leaky memory, then. Thanks.

[Lee]

Let me revive this, but on a different tack. I'm now confused by Bloodline Investiture, the spell/domain action.

I note that "A bloodline investiture transfers the donating scion's entire bloodline, including strength derivation, and score, to the designated recipient. The donating scion's regency reserve is not transferred to the recipient."

So, how does that change the recipient's bloodline? Say this is a parent-to-heir transfer, so the derivation and strength are already the same, but the scores may be different. Does the recipient's score reset to the donor's score? Do the scores add together? Does the donor's score convert to RP or 5xRP, like it would in bloodtheft?

I'm already assuming that if the strengths are different, the stronger one wins out (minor donating to a major does not change the major, but major donating to minor overcomes the minor).

[AndrewTall]

My view is that a consensual spell of that sort should always be at least as good as any other method of gaining blood strength.

So I take the tack of saying that the end result is strength of the strong + strength gained from lesser as if bloodtheft that occurred.

[Sorontar]

My view is that a consensual spell of that sort should always be at least as good as any other method of gaining blood strength.

So I take the tack of saying that the end result is strength of the strong + strength gained from lesser as if bloodtheft that occurred.

So a regent is more powerful if they have vassal regents than if they try and run/own the whole show themselves? The vassals will have their own blood strength which will enable stuff to be done, rather than the regent having a couple of extra blood strength, which changes little in their power.

Sorontar

[AndrewTall]

So a regent is more powerful if they have vassal regents than if they try and run/own the whole show themselves? The vassals will have their own blood strength which will enable stuff to be done, rather than the regent having a couple of extra blood strength, which changes little in their power.

Sorontar

Having vassals is a trade off, vassals can potentially increase RP collection and add actions, but they can reduce GB collection, be rivals, unwilling to support the PC regent without encouragement, and so on - it all depends on the domain's circumstances and how actively the vassals are played.

[arpig2]

Andrew is correct that vassals are a bit of a trade-off, however I am of the opinion (very strongly so) that they are well worth it. This goes for the game mechanic aspect of it (extra RP and actions are invaluable as both are much harder to come by than GB - which are rather plentiful), and even more so for the role-playing aspect of the game.

[Lee]

I don't see how vassals enter into the question? I asked about a straight bloodline transfer, what is the mechanic, as you understand it?

[Sorontar]

I don't see how vassals enter into the question? I asked about a straight bloodline transfer, what is the mechanic, as you understand it?

I was merely suggesting that perhaps you might actually get access to better bloodline powers through vassals, rather than through usurping/bloodthefting their regency. Yes, there might be more risk of the vassal not behaving, but sharing the blood powers around rather than concentrating them in one PC, who actually may not gain any powers (even if they have gained holdings)

So I was responding to the possible motive of your question, rather than its mechanics. Basically, getting cosy with strong people has its advantages, rather than trying to eliminate them.

Sorontar

[arpig2]

I asked about a straight bloodline transfer, what is the mechanic
Which was answered.