Domains and subdomains....

[Arentak]

So, a lot of Birthright games I've been in of late....people want to add "buildings". Appearently, we grew up on games like Civ, and we want to build things. The Birthright core rules are very abstract. Ruling a province from 3 to 4 may mean adding some graneries, watchtowers, etc.

The newer Paizo kingmaker rules are very much "buildings-oriented", but lack the feudal feel of Birthright.

I wonder if a game might use Birthright for Dukes, but the province level rulers, the various feudal underlings, might be represented by Kingmaker.

We'd need to establish some sort of parity between a gold bar and a build point. I'm just starting out here with some ideas. Anyone have anything to add ?

[Thelandrin]

I would have thought the obvious thing to do would be to have a direct equation - 0.5, 1 or 2 GB per BP (if you're using the variable BP cost) or just 2 GB = 1 BP if not.

[Sorontar]

I tend to think of a holding level as being a measurement of its resources and assets, not its buildings. For guild holdings, this means more warehouses, workshops and shopfronts but also more trade deals, caravan contracts and market exclusivity. For law holdings, it is garrison buildings and gaols but also city laws and public support. People are just as important as the physical assets. This is why regency has more power than money.

Of course, monuments, trade routes and ports all can play an important role in your prestige and what opportunities are available but it still comes down to how you use them. Likewise, fortification may seem to be an architectural matter but it actually relies on you having a system in place that makes it work. Walls are meaningless if they aren't defended properly with sufficient manpower.

Sorontar

[DM-Isaelie]

Honestly, the reason I add buildings is because BR core, there is too much money. WAY too much money. It is a resource sink. ;)

[Lee]

I'm running a Kingmaker game in Cerilia, and things are working OK. I am using the KM system instead of the BR one, and no one has objected to anything yet.

My guess would be to use 1 BP = 1 GB. There will still be a lot of money, but there is plenty to spend it on.

Right now, our Barony is 7 hexes, and has been holding there for a year of game time. I'd guess that's 2 or 3 provinces in BR terms, but if anyone asks, I'm saying it's 1 province. The limiting factor hasn't been BP, but Unrest and the Control DC.

There are bloodlines, but since there is only one ruler PC, it hasn't meant much beyond the blood abilities. Which, to be honest, have hardly been used at all-- I'd bet at least 2 players have forgotten their characters are blooded.


I wonder if a game might use Birthright for Dukes, but the province level rulers, the various feudal underlings, might be represented by Kingmaker.

I suspect you could make this work, but it seems like a lot to do.

[Arentak]

An 18 hex Count of Halried could generate 3+GB to Calrie in taxes each turn. More if you stick to kingmaker monthly instead of birthright quarterly. And the count would have more then that to himself. Having wealthy "subdomains" might necessitate less standing armies so you can raise your vassal's forces instead.

Sadly, its a lot of work to track that many subdomains and domains. It would probably only work in a tabletop game with 4-6 players.