A question about sources in the 2nd Edition AD&D Birthright game.

[goatunit]

I'm starting a Birthright campaign for my tabletop group very soon and have been filling out the rules information we covered in our preliminary domain design session with fluff (names and locations of various holdings and so on).

So my question is this: Is a wizard regent allowed to have multiple sources within a single province? I wanted to give our PC wizard three sources in our redesigned Caerwil, connected to three points of interest from the Player's Guide to Medoere book. I realize that there are downsides to doing this, but I'm really only interested in whether it is possible. I can't find any examples of it in the book, and the Domain Record Sheet seems not to have room for it.

Thanks in advance.

[Magian]

This seems like a little tweak of the rules for your own game. I don't see why not. There was a time that I had 2-3 different temple holdings in a province in one game. I had a hidden holding, a public holding, and a usurped holding that I kept flagged as the other temple after I wiped them out, to avoid being ousted by my political enemies.

If you are doing it for the purposes of the sources being different things, that is fine. Maybe in realm spell terms they can be united to form a nexus and added together to cast the realm spell as needed and part of the realm spell ritual if you wanted to get into technical bits and bobs.

[AndrewTall]

The rules leave very open exactly what each holding represents, a castle 3 could be one big castle or a chain of forts, a law holding a number of loyal sheriffs and ready militia's or a formal court system with permenant staff, etc.

I can't see any issue with the source having several small manifestations instead of one big one, if you are using bonuses for specific manifestations (i.e. the nymph's grotto adds a bonus to one spell type, the great waterfall reduces the cost of scry cost along the river length, etc) then retaining the other bonuses might justify limiting the maximum spell level - but that would be quite a complicated system.

[goatunit]

Thanks guys. I'm ruling that, while there may be multiple sources within a province, they share a cumulative value and count as a single source. This also has the benefit of allowing a rival's increasing source score to represent the sapping of mebhaighl (sp?) from one source to another.

Another question: The rulebook says that certain actions are prohibited to wizard regents with insufficient source levels, and states that such a character with a level 7 source can build a trade route. Does this mean that a wizard with a level 3 source and level 7 guild is unable to build a route? Or does it mean a wizard with a level 7 source can count that source as a guild for purposes of building routes?

The latter seems more likely, but it's hard to imagine what he would be trading at such a high value. Spell components, scrolls, and magic items?

[goatunit]

And sorry; one more. The description for the wizard Hermehdie says that she has not yet invested regency into the theocracy of Medoere. I'm confused by this, since she has sources in that realm. I haven't yet completely tackled the magic chapter, obviously.

[AndrewTall]

in the Book of Magecraft a wizard with a L7 or greater source was deemed to have a L0 guild for the purposes of being able to forge a trade route which gave them access to guild actions (and thus income) (Page 19 "other uses").

Although if the province was "maxed out" with guild regents (i.e. 1 guilder in a L0-3 province, 2 guilders in 4-6, 3 guilders in L7-9 ignoring L0 holdings under the oft-ignored rule on maximum numbers of regents in a province) then thewizard couldn't forge trade routes.

I note that the profit margin with source-related goods (magic services/items, rare gems, herbs, ancient artifacts, etc) would be almost 100% so the income appearing high isn't hard to explain away.

On Hermedhie I suspect that it meant that she wasn't paying RP in vassalage to the theocracy, she would almost inevitably have spent RP to build her source network.

[AKjeldsen]

Although if the province was "maxed out" with guild regents (i.e. 1 guilder in a L0-3 province, 2 guilders in 4-6, 3 guilders in L7-9 ignoring L0 holdings under the oft-ignored rule on maximum numbers of regents in a province) then thewizard couldn't forge trade routes.

Which effectively means there can't be any guilders with more than an L0 in the province, since an L7 source could only exist in a max L2 province (excluding the Elvish provinces, of course.)

But yes, I usually ignore that rule as well.

[Magian]

I think the trade route for level 7 source was a notion meant to allow for some income to a wizard by mundane means. Perhaps for the elves since they don't really have many guilds. As elves would naturally be high end skilled crafters it would make some sense. Possibly for magical components to the human cities to supply them with what they need for magic. Hence a possible deal like this was done with Tuarhieval and IC which lead to guilders worming their way into that kingdom eventually.

A similar concept for any wizard with a 7 level source could be considered, not just for elves.

A variant idea could be a high level source, level determined by the DM, (or any level source) could provide some income. Tie in the build action for a hedge wizard hut, or alchemist, or other magical crafts and bits and bobs type buildings to attach to a source and add some value multiplied by the source level for income of that building. The economy would be as above, the demand for all things magical. I wouldn't allow major items to be produced by these buildings, just some minor things to allow for income and the flow of magical components.

[Sorontar]

A variant idea could be a high level source, level determined by the DM, (or any level source) could provide some income. Tie in the build action for a hedge wizard hut, or alchemist, or other magical crafts and bits and bobs type buildings to attach to a source and add some value multiplied by the source level for income of that building. The economy would be as above, the demand for all things magical. I wouldn't allow major items to be produced by these buildings, just some minor things to allow for income and the flow of magical components.

Yes, I always thought the difference from trade with a guild and trade with a source holding is a matter of goods versus services. This also helps limit the magical items if the wizard and their lackeys don't give permanently enchanted items, just provide temporary effects.

Sorontar

[Green Knight]

I'm starting a Birthright campaign for my tabletop group very soon and have been filling out the rules information we covered in our preliminary domain design session with fluff (names and locations of various holdings and so on).

So my question is this: Is a wizard regent allowed to have multiple sources within a single province? I wanted to give our PC wizard three sources in our redesigned Caerwil, connected to three points of interest from the Player's Guide to Medoere book. I realize that there are downsides to doing this, but I'm really only interested in whether it is possible. I can't find any examples of it in the book, and the Domain Record Sheet seems not to have room for it.

Thanks in advance.

No.

A single regent/domain can only have a single holding of the same type within the same province.

[arpig2]

True, however a source can have more than one manifestation.

[goatunit]

Thanks for all the help, guys. We had a blast at our first session and session 2 is coming up tomorrow. They're already provoking El-Hadid and trying to bring Rogr Aglondier around on their side. Tomorrow, I'm going to kick off the adventure from Legends of the Hero-Kings where the councilors and military leaders are feuding, and I was also thinking I might get a taste for the war gaming rules with a small band of goblins coming out of the Spiderfell.

Tonight, though, I have to do all my NPC domain turns. I've put together a binder of domain sheets for all the relevant regents, but I'm finding it difficult to keep track of opportunities for growth. When I look at my sheet for Roesone, for example, I can see what all the regent owns, but I can't assume that just because she has two law holdings in a level 3 province, that there's a vacant holding there - it might be part of someone else's domain.

Short of writing out a second stack of domain sheets for each province and having to update changes in two places, have you guys got any advice for how to tackle the bookkeeping end of things? I'm also open to just general advice.

[AndrewTall]

In Ruins of Empire we used a big spreadsheet - the Provinces and Holdings spreadsheet. It lists every province and what domains are in it - PM me your email if you like and I'll email the Anuire section to you. Be warned, it used a different ruleset to BRCS/2e so the income and RP gains will look odd.