Info on Aerenwe

[ausrick]

Hi, I'm going to be starting a campaign in Aerenwe in about a month, and the way I like to run games is more of the "status quo" method where I have a world pretty much already in motion and the PC's are free to roam wherever and pay the consequences or reap the rewards of their actions. I already have oodles of information on the surrounding realms, but the only info I have on Aerenwe is what is presented in the original box set. Can anybody out there help me out? I'm looking for things like more detailed maps (like the ones in the player secrets books), names, noble houses, npcs, heraldry, special holidays, sights of interest, background happenings, rumors, and general flavor. I've already been trying to make my own maps and npc's, and am doing pretty well, but theres no way to get the amount of detail I would like without having something to go from. Plus if I want it to blend well with the rest of the realms, balance, and no need to re-invent the wheel after all, but now I'm rambling. So any help would be utmost appreciated.

Thanks.

[A_dark]

i don't have answers, but i have a related question :)

Why is the regent of Aerenwe a Queen? When did the regents of Aerenwe get that title and how? Does it mean that they do not recognise the Iron Throne any more? Does it have to do with the fact that Michael's wife was an Aerenwe heir?

[geeman]

At 09:56 AM 5/19/2005 +0200, A_dark wrote:



>i don`t have answers, but i have a related question :)

>

>Why is the regent of Aerenwe a Queen? When did the regents of Aerenwe get

>that title and how? Does it mean that they do not recognise the Iron

>Throne any more? Does it have to do with the fact that Michael`s wife was

>an Aerenwe heir?



In more early medieval parlance it`s not terribly unusual for "king" (and

most noble titles, for that matter) to be much more figurative than a sort

of estimation of their overall influence. A king might really be the

equivalent of what we might think of as little more than a mayor or local

chieftain. In the case of Aerenwe that seems like the most likely

explanation. The title is ancient and connected to the early tribal period

of Anuire. Though the rulers of Aerenwe might have long since proferred

the allegiance to another ruler (who is, after all, the leader of the

"empire" which is a higher title) the king/queen title may have been

continued without any real sense that it need be changed.



Alternatively, there was a period of "titular inflation" that occurred in

Europe around the 17th through 19th centuries. Barons became counts,

counts became earls, etc. Even kings and queens became emperors. This

might be what happened in the case of Aerenwe as a noble (maybe a crown

prince or a duke) was installed in the throne of that "kingdom" during the

period of Anuirean expansion and had his title "inflated." It`s possible

this title was one of the few that remained after the collapse of the

empire and/or that most of the others died out. Given the range of titles

and histories of the various Anuirean realms either interpretation could work.



Gary

[irdeggman]

Heck Avan is a prince.

[Green Knight]

Just face it - the titles of rulers in BR is all over the place. The Queen of

Aerenwe (she did come to power recently, so may have assumed a title to her

liking), the Baron of Diemed (which is inarguably a Duchy) etc.



B

[Earl_Ingwe]

To me Aerenwe is similar (refering to "terra") with Singapore as Calrie, and within little India for the Caerliennen-castle.. Go there into details with your research. EI

[irdeggman]

Another possiblity for Aerenwe is the tie to elves and the elven way of life (i.e., the preservation of the Erbannien). Elves use such titles. So forcing the issue to set her apart from the rest of Anuirean nobles might work also.

[Cesari]

It mentions in the box set that Anuirean titles are largely meaningless at this point outside of a few people like Avan and Boeruine. Tael is a Baron who rules two Duchies worth of land, Diem is a Baron who rules a Duchy and so on.

As for how the title became Queen/King, remember that Lilliene unseated a tyrant when she gained power. That tyrant might have inflated his title of Duke to King to artificially inflate his worth (Kind of like in Sendoure, but less legitimate). It may even go back farther than that. In the Book of Magecraft under Aelies's description it mentions some woman who tried to use sorcery to forge a new Anuirean empire that ran afoul of Aelies. Considering that Aelies is, and likely has always been, confined in his source activity to Aerenwe and Roesone, this woman might have been ruler of Aerenwe, either by heredity or conquest. The book doesn't give details on that, though.

[Birthright-L]

Wow, Cesari.

Now that sounds like a cool basis for an adventure.





On 5/19/05, Cesari <brnetboard@birthright.net> wrote:

> This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=3088

>

> Cesari wrote:

> It mentions in the box set that Anuirean titles are largely meaningless at this point outside of a few people like Avan and Boeruine. Tael is a Baron who rules two Duchies worth of land, Diem is a Baron who rules a Duchy and so on.

>

> As for how the title became Queen/King, remember that Lilliene unseated a tyrant when she gained power. That tyrant might have inflated his title of Duke to King to artificially inflate his worth (Kind of like in Sendoure, but less legitimate). It may even go back farther than that. In the Book of Magecraft under Aelies`s description it mentions some woman who tried to use sorcery to forge a new Anuirean empire that ran afoul of Aelies. Considering that Aelies is, and likely has always been, confined in his source activity to Aerenwe and Roesone, this woman might have been ruler of Aerenwe, either by heredity or conquest. The book doesn`t give details on that, though.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[geeman]

At 12:57 PM 5/19/2005 +0200, irdeggman wrote:



>Another possiblity for Aerenwe is the tie to elves and the elven way of

>life (i.e., the preservation of the Erbannien). Elves use such

>titles. So forcing the issue to set her apart from the rest of Anuirean

>nobles might work also.



A couple things in regards to the issue of the noble title for the ruler of

Aerenwe:



First, it occurs to me that none of these interpretations are really

mutually exclusive of one another. That is, the title might have gone

through a period of imperial titular inflation based in part on a

connection of the ruler of the domain having a connection to an elven

bloodline (perhaps by marriage) after which a tyrant came to power who was

overthrown giving the current regent that same title--effectively usurping

it from the former ruler. Such a chain of inheritance really isn`t that

outlandish given the timespan and the overall nature of titular claims

being more than a little shaky to begin with.



That said, I think this one suggested by irdeggman has the most relevance

to the domain itself, and since that was the basic idea behind the original

post I`d go with it as the primary (or, at least, a significant) influence

on the genesis of the title used by the Aerenwe ruler.



In any case, to bring things back more towards what the original poster was

asking about:



I used to run a campaign in Aerenwe, but I`m afraid I have very little of

that background material committed to paper, so I can`t give over a lot of

info on the realm. I can, however, recommend a few things:



1. HM Aelies is one of Cerilia`s most powerful wizards and, thus, most

powerful characters in Cerilia. In a "low-level" campaign 17th levels is

pretty far up there and in a 3e conversion (which changed some of the spell

levels a bit) it means he`s got access to an awful lot of

spells. Furthermore, he`s been around a long time being rather naturally

long-lived (as a half-elf) and with his blood ability, so his levels as a

wizard might be interpreted as having taken into consideration many XP

worth of magic item creation. Aelies is a dominant presence in Aerenwe,

and should not be ignored. From the DMing POV this is a good thing as he

can be used as the "patron" for the PCs--in the old D&D use of the word for

the character who motivates or otherwise sends the PCs off on

adventures. He can be used regularly in that role to great effect.



2. The Erbannien is one of the more sylvan and unspoiled forests of

Cerilia--its not unreasonable to see it competing with elven kingdoms in

that regard. This may be the influence of Aelies or it may simply be the

result of the magical nature of that realm. Play up the mystical and fae

aspects of the forest.



3. Home Base: Aerenwe is centrally located. It makes an excellent "base of

operations" for a BR campaign centered on Anuire. Because it is a coastal

domain it is easy to send characters off by ship to any other region of the

continent.



4. No Realm is an Island: It`s hard to look at the map of Anuire and not

note the proximity of Aerenwe to Caelcorwyn. Take advantage of the

"unexplored" nature of that island to put the players at a

disadvantage. There has been lots of ideas expressed around here for uses

for that island. Check the archives.



5. Good neighbors and bad neighbors. Though there are some unpleasant

human realms near Aerenwe the domain is actually buffered from most of the

really nasty domains controlled by humanoids or awnsheghlien. One should

not, however, ignore these significant creatures of the BR setting, but one

might want to employ more of the other types; ogres and trolls rather than

orogs and gnolls (if I can be forgiven the rhyme....) Awnsheghlien of the

"wandering" type might be included. That is, they are more like unique

monsters with names like "The Fanged Horror" and "The Swamp Lizard" rather

than the iconic ones like "The Spider" or "The Gorgon."



Best of luck,

Gary

[irdeggman]

Another basis for the elven tie to Aerenwe could be gleamed from the novel Shadow Stone. While technically a Forgotten Realms novel, as Rich Baker pointed out it was actually the story of Aelis and he converted it after the cancelation of the BR line.

The main character was the protector of the forest (hmm I wonder which BR forest that could be?)

Another connection is the fact that the Queen&#39;s Lt are comprised of half-elf rangers. In general half-elfs are not readily accepted by humans and there usually needs to be something special that connects the two.

[ausrick]

OK, thanks everyone for the info, and the side discussion of the title of king/queen. ;)

Now you are just going to make me ask some more questions.

Whats been bugging me at the moment is how to handle the three provinces that have the Erbannien in them. I read somewhere that no permanent dwellings where allowed in the Erbannien, but all of the provinces there have a level of 1/something high. I was under the impression that a province 1 had some small hamlets and villages, which means also atleast a dirt road or two. so if there are villages, how do the villagers live? My understanding is that in a wooded village logging is a means of income, but part of what I have read about Aerenwe is how it is good to preserve that forest ( and all the half-elves and rangers that live in the realm would strongly agree with this) yet there is a greedy guilder who wants logging rights. (my mind pictures an inevitable eruption of violence with this one including feuding and fingerpointing for times to come) Also, I know that I&#39;ve heard, (though in reference to the Erbannien in Roesone I believe) that because of the majesty of the Erbannien, parts of it have become a hot spot tourist attraction for the nobility. To me in my mind I&#39;m not sure how I would reconcile that tendancy with the idea of unspoiled nature.

As I continue to chew on this, well, the idea of how a law holding works which is from the book of regency. If a domain is a province 1, well the most you can control is 1, which means 9, or 90% of the land is uncontrollable. (i.e. lawless, or wilderness that is unenforceable) So how could the reagent enforce no despoiling the forest when all kinds of who know what could hide out in the dark woods. I mean, it kind of reminds me of border control problems.

Also, furs, hunting, trapping, and probably the semi-frequent nobility hunting forray that I could imagine would happen on such a forrest. How does that affect the unspoiled nature of it? Would a ranger pump a couple arrows into a baronet that hunted a few too many pheasants or stags?

Another question, does the high mage have a wizard tower out in the woods? or two or three? would they be made out of magical wood to avoid despoiling the source or would they be stone/iron or whatever like a normal wizards tower?

Are there any points of interest in Aerenwe that you know of?

Any names of cities and towns. I know there are more than just Calrie. I&#39;m also not very sure of the spacing of the towns, like how many would go into a province and how far apart they should be from each other, especially based on city size. And concerning the country-side, is it pretty much just dotted with manor houses and peasant farms, or are there more sites of interest just on in the mostly flat grassland?

Yeah, I know I have a lot of questions, this is just the stuff that rolls through my head non-stop. Any help or ideas would be very helpful.

thanks,

[Cesari]

does the high mage have a wizard tower out in the woods?

Going by the book The Shadow Stone, Aelies mainly lives in old elven ruins still preserved somewhat by magic.


If a domain is a province 1, well the most you can control is 1, which means 9, or 90% of the land is uncontrollable

A level 1 law doesn&#39;t equal 10% being controlled. A level 1 law in a level one province means that 100%(or close to) of settlements are pretty much covered by the law. As for the wild parts (and they are many), that&#39;s what the rangers are for.


I read somewhere that no permanent dwellings where allowed in the Erbannien, but all of the provinces there have a level of 1/something high

The scale of the map doesn&#39;t really allow for clearings and pockets within the forest to be shown, and the coast could support fishing villages as well.

[/QUOTE]yet there is a greedy guilder who wants logging rights


One way I&#39;ve seen Mourde done is that he attained limited rights to log from the tyrant regent that preceded Lilliene (since she wouldn&#39;t have given them to him), and now he wants to expand, where as she wants to remove his rights entirely.

Also, I know that I&#39;ve heard, (though in reference to the Erbannien in Roesone I believe) that because of the majesty of the Erbannien, parts of it have become a hot spot tourist attraction for the nobility. To me in my mind I&#39;m not sure how I would reconcile that tendancy with the idea of unspoiled nature.



No one else treats the erebannian as well as Aerenwe does. There&#39;s a 3 mile (I think) break in the forest along Roesone&#39;s border with Ilien for example. And El-Hadid runs a tourist town called Aenier in Ilien to exploit the bored upper class.

Are there any points of interest in Aerenwe that you know of?

I recall there being a tower dating back to the Whervyn(sp) family who&#39;s progenitor became the Golden Unicorn, one of the greatest healers of Anuire. It&#39;s visited by many pilgrims.

I&#39;m also not very sure of the spacing of the towns, like how many would go into a province and how far apart they should be from each other, especially based on city size. [QUOTE]

Considering that Calrie is the only really big city, the countryside should by littered with communities. 2 Level 5 provinces and a Level 6 with few large urban centers makes for a very spread out population

[Benjamin]

I have a Player&#39;s Secrets of Aerenwe that was put together a number of years ago by some fans. You may even be able to download it from here. Well, if it is, I can&#39;t find it.

If you want me to email what I have, send me a private message with an appropriate target email that will accept it.

[geeman]

At 04:10 PM 5/20/2005 +0200, ausrick wrote:



>Whats been bugging me at the moment is how to handle the three provinces

>that have the Erbannien in them. I read somewhere that no permanent

>dwellings where allowed in the Erbannien, but all of the provinces there

>have a level of 1/something high. I was under the impression that a

>province 1 had some small hamlets and villages, which means also atleast a

>dirt road or two. so if there are villages, how do the villagers

>live? My understanding is that in a wooded village logging is a means of

>income, but part of what I have read about Aerenwe is how it is good to

>preserve that forest ( and all the half-elves and rangers that live in the

>realm would strongly agree with this) yet there is a greedy guilder who

>wants logging rights. (my mind pictures an inevitable eruption of

>violence with this one including feuding and fingerpointing for times to

>come) Also, I know that I`ve heard, (though in reference to the Erbannien

>in Roesone I believe) that because of the majesty of the Erbannien, parts

>of it have become a hot spot tourist attraction for the nobility. To me

>in my mind I`m not sure how I would reconcile that tendancy with the idea

>of unspoiled nature.



A couple of things. I`m of the opinion that population levels are meant to

be a straight count of the number of sentient creatures in a province with

a sort of typical, D&D "fudge factor" built in. That is, a level 1

province is approximately 2,000 individuals +/- 1,000 or so. The "fudge

factor" in this case, however, includes just about every other

interpretation of what a province level represents, including some folks

who have suggested that it really represents households rather can

individuals, that it is the tax base ("citizens" if you will) rather than

the total number of people, that it includes a "fractional" numbers for

those who live in the province on a temporary basis (like travelling

merchants, nomadic groups and itinerant hunters) or that the population

level reflects the character levels of the individuals of a province rather

than just a head count, etc. etc. etc.



Because that "fudge factor" is pretty broad (and contains some very

compelling arguments to back it up) that means the population level 1 might

represent as few as a couple hundred people. Exactly how to interpret that

province level needn`t be done a good 98% of the time since there`s just no

need to "map out" an entire province like a dungeon. The players just

aren`t going to explore every possible nook and cranny. Besides, from a

DMing standpoint its better to have a few surprises available, hidden away

in an unexplored cranny to keep the players on their toes.



My point in describing it this way is that a level 1 or level 2 province

might still be interpreted as "unsettled" using such an explanation of what

province levels are, so one needn`t worry overmuch about the semantics of

describing such things as the Erbannien provinces.



As for the income generated from such provinces things are even more open

to interpretation. There really is almost no description of the specifics

regarding the economics of the domain system. The closest thing we have is

the description of how a Vos guild might go about ranching varsks. It`s

reasonable to assume that example might be used for other domain level

effects, but in the absence of such an effort one could describe the GB

generated from a province as the result of a tax upon the individuals in

that province, the result of tolls taken by those who travel through it,

the surcharge on livestock or hunting performed in that province,

etc. Money generated in the Erbannien might come from tourism (as has been

suggested) from the sale of various carefully harvested rare woods, the

trade in animal furs, truffles found by hogs, etc. That`s not even getting

into any of the possibilities regarding more fantastic sources of

income. A few hippogriff eggs found in the Erbannien would generate a lot

of GB.... Also, one should keep in mind the potential of a trade route

using the source levels of the province.



>As I continue to chew on this, well, the idea of how a law holding works

>which is from the book of regency. If a domain is a province 1, well the

>most you can control is 1, which means 9, or 90% of the land is

>uncontrollable. (i.e. lawless, or wilderness that is unenforceable) So

>how could the reagent enforce no despoiling the forest when all kinds of

>who know what could hide out in the dark woods. I mean, it kind of

>reminds me of border control problems.



Probably the more useful way to look at this is that law holdings are to

population level what population level is to province. That is, a province

(1/7) means that that province is currently one eighth

populated. (Actually max population levels and source potential may

differ, but let`s go with it for now.) A law(1) in a province (1/7) has

it`s population completely under the influence of that law(1) because that

law(1) encompasses all of the population level 1. A law(1) holding in a

province with a population of 2 influences half the population.



Note that "under the influence" does not mean "completely controlled

by." There can still be crime, dissension and lawlessness in a province

with a high law holding. Law holdings merely represent how much of the

population recognizes the authority of the regent as the leader of the

province in regards to justice, jurisprudence, policing, etc. It doesn`t

give that law holder the ability to control their behavior per se.



>Also, furs, hunting, trapping, and probably the semi-frequent nobility

>hunting forray that I could imagine would happen on such a forrest. How

>does that affect the unspoiled nature of it? Would a ranger pump a couple

>arrows into a baronet that hunted a few too many pheasants or stags?



"A few too many" pheasants or stags is probably not enough to affect things

at the domain level. A high level NPC could potentially do a lot of damage

to a province, but generally "adventure level" effects are IMO better

portrayed as the domain level equivalent of random events rather than as

things that might be more like domain effects. Remember for a person to

change the population level of a province generally requires domain

action--which is a month long series of adventure level events combined

with the expenditure of thousands of gp (in GB) form and back by a

mystical/magical energy based on a connection to the divine (RP.)



>Another question, does the high mage have a wizard tower out in the woods?

>or two or three? would they be made out of magical wood to avoid

>despoiling the source or would they be stone/iron or whatever like a

>normal wizards tower?



His residences in elven ruins maintained by magic has already been

described, and to that I`d just add that such buildings are very easily

described as wizard`s tower(s) and there`s no reason why not to do so for

Aelies. In addition, he`d be as likely as any other source holder to have

more "natural" places of control in the provinces he has sources. A

crystal cave; a giant, sheltering oak, etc.



Gary

[ausrick]

Thanks to everyone so far, all of your posts have been helpful and insightful. I like the discussions. Cessari, thanks for the line-item breakdown answer to a bunch of my questions and thanks to Geeman for touching on domain level implications. Thanks to Benjamin for offering to send me stuff, I&#39;m not sure if you got my message or not, but here is an e-mail addy anyone here can send info to, i.e. maps and documents and such, it is sheldon.cooper@rtc1.com .

One of the reasons I&#39;m asking for all of your opinions and detailed Aerenwe info is probably coming from my DMing style. I try to know as much as I can about a place, what it looks like, even at the tiny level, and then also, even though I know this is a fantasy game, I try to think about how the inhabitants think, live, and "realistically" interact. This always leads me to crazy questions like wondering if in regions that are mostly grassland but have some cities, if there are strip mines and quarries (they obviously aren&#39;t on the map because of the scale and most people are like who cares) and what type of rock are they digging? Limestone, granite, marble, just gravel? Would limestone or gravel even be valuable in reniassance Aerenwe, How big is a strip mine? and what do the local farmers feel about this? Maybe the mine owners took the land from the farmers by dubious means. . . Then again maybe because of Aerenwe being costal, and not near any techtonic activity, it might not be in a geological location where this sort of thing is practiced. . . I have no way of knowing. Call me nutty but this is the conversation I had with my self in my head today while I was going to buy groceries. :P I just try to build the world and then let the PC&#39;s live in it.

[Doyle]

Hi Ausrick,
If you are still looking for details like produce, exports and so on, find the archive of old list emails - several of the list members have put forward such detail because it&#39;s also the way they think.
The PS of Aerenwe (written by Ashley Harbutt), while brief (only 12 pages) is still a good starting point - I used it as the background for a convention game I wrote some years back. I have a scan of a hand drawn map of Aerenwe that I downloaded of this or a linked site - it may have even been with the PS. If it would be of help, let me know.
Regards,
Doyle.

[ausrick]

Hi,

I know Thorogood Roele, Benjamin, and Doyle have both been awesome enough to offer to send me information during the past couple of days if I still need it. Well, guess what, I do&#33;&#33; :D

I have PM&#39;d and e-mailed you all, but I am starting to wonder if it went through. Not meaning to sound impatient, but to use an analogy, it is as if you told me you had the holy grail which I had been questing for in your possession and would gladly give it to me. . . and then silence. I would immediately start fearing the worst.

So anyways, to all three of you plus anyone else. my e-mail address is sheldon.cooper@rtc1.com

It should accept all form and manner of attachments of all sizes and shapes and most file extensions. Also, I don&#39;t mind if I get duplicate information sent to me from more than one source, I&#39;d rather be sorting data and discarding rather than scouring for it. Thirdly and finally, Once I get all of said data and it is mildly sorted, I will gladly host it for other people to download and place a link for it here. And by host, that means I will put it on a reliable server so that the link will still be valid two years from now when someone else starts rummaging through the archives of the forum.

I am wondering if some of you are the ones that get new posts e-mailed to you rather than going to the forums and that is why my PM and E-mail attempts have been in vain.

Anyways, I hope to have info from you soon, the more the merrier, and if someone else comes by this post that has it, no need to ask if I need it or not, you have my permission to send it. If 5 years from now I get an E-mail about Aerenwe, it won&#39;t bother me any.

Cheers and take care for now, you all are great.

[Autarkis]

Does anyone have the Player Secrets of Aerenwe they could mail me? jeveler1972@yahoo.com

;)

[Sigmund]

I would also be interested in this info. If anyone has it and feels so inclined, please send it to cwsigmund1@earthlink.net and I would be very grateful.

[cyrano24100]

I don't know if someone still has that Player's Secreets still from Ashley Harbutt, but I'd love it if they could send it to aerenwe@hotmail.fr (not .com, .fr) :D

[rvgifford]

Ditto. If anyone has the PS of Aerenwe and would be willing to e-mail it to me, that would be great.

exiledmage@yahoo.com

[Cargaroth]

I'd like to add my name to the list of those looking for Aenemwe info. Please send it to harrisp@missionaustralia.com.au

THanks.:)

[Autarkis]

Here is what I was able to find from the BR archives (did some google searching).

[Sigmund]

Thanks Autarkis. Looks good.

[cyrano24100]

Thanks.. I think I had bits of this from all sorts of places, this is pretty good.

[kgauck]

I have a related question :)

Why is the regent of Aerenwe a Queen? When did the regents of Aerenwe get that title and how? Does it mean that they do not recognise the Iron Throne any more? Does it have to do with the fact that Michael's wife was an Aerenwe heir?

I hold that the titles of "duke" and "king" are both of the same rank. The only difference between the titles is that a king claims to be entirely soveriegn, while the dukes acknowledge the overlordship of the Emperor.

In terms of diplomatic protocal, the oldest title takes presedence. In terms of normal prestige, the ruler would be judged by several factors at once, including the antiquity of their title, the size of their realm, the reputed strength of their bloodline, their marriages and alliances, and their reputation. Probabaly or approximatly in this order.

So, by switching from the ducal to the royal title, Aerenwe is both removing itself from any claims to the Iron Throne and stating in advance that it will not recognize any future Emperor as overlord in Aerenwe. In terms of rank, it means nothing, and Aerenwe no doubt dates the origin of its title from when they were made dukes.

[Sigmund]

I hold that the titles of "duke" and "king" are both of the same rank. The only difference between the titles is that a king claims to be entirely soveriegn, while the dukes acknowledge the overlordship of the Emperor.

In terms of diplomatic protocal, the oldest title takes presedence. In terms of normal prestige, the ruler would be judged by several factors at once, including the antiquity of their title, the size of their realm, the reputed strength of their bloodline, their marriages and alliances, and their reputation. Probabaly or approximatly in this order.

So, by switching from the ducal to the royal title, Aerenwe is both removing itself from any claims to the Iron Throne and stating in advance that it will not recognize any future Emperor as overlord in Aerenwe. In terms of rank, it means nothing, and Aerenwe no doubt dates the origin of its title from when they were made dukes.

I really like your idea here. Think I'll adopt it myself.

[Doyle]

It would be interesting to see - if an emporer were crowned, what would be the order of precedence into his / her first royal court.
Some of the older lines have titled themselves as queen or prince - would they need to drop their title in favour of a lesser one to be accepted into the royal presence?
I realise that if one of the current contenders got the crown, it would make a great difference as to the order and some nobles would be moving to another empire rather than give up what they have to one of their rivals.
But say an unknown - not politcally aligned - got the job? Would they all turn up if only to 'test the water'? That first march of royal precedence would have a huge effect on later politics (my assumption anyway).

[AndrewTall]

I think that anyone who is anyone would turn up to the coronation of a new emperor - absence would give rivals a chance to plot and strongly suggest a slight to the new emperor - who will quite possibly want to find a common enemy to focus his subjects minds outwards.

I would say though that it is hard to see a complete unknown getting the job, unless as a figurehead for an established power (say Ghoere).

As regards precedence I think you under-estimate the role of minions, any such event is preceded (barring imminent invasion/war) with days of celebrations to a) get the peasants in the mood to cheer the new emperor and b) give the minions time to agree who will praise the new emperor first, who will bow from the waist and who from the knee, what titles people should use, what colour dress Duchess Brosengae will wear to make sure that it doesn't clash with Princes Aubrae's dress, etc.

It would probably either be at the end of a Sword and Crown (if you don't have the adventure think Olympics crossed with UN summit crossed with Davos) or a similar event.

From a practical point the precedence would basically be the supporters first, the non-supporters too powerful to ignore or who can be bribed with status, and then the others. Whether there was general title inflation - every current duke becomes a prince/king etc or whether the exceptions were ruled down would probably depend on who the supporters were.

Prince Avan, unless the new emperor/marrying Aubrae to the new emperor, would almost certainly ensure that his rank wasn't reduced - so the ranks could go emperor-prince-duke-baron-count-lord

If Duke Boruine/Ghoere then the ranks might be emperor-duke-baron-count-lord

If Aerenwe emperor-king-prince/duke-baron-count-lord-squire-knight.

I note that P7 ROE from the boxed set said that the old system had both dukes and princes, with princes as members of the royal family. (The Avan's are clearly making their claim very public with their rank, while the Boruine maintaining a dignified use of their historic rank).

Andrew