Sidhelien must be a complex language--Annwn

[Archangel]

I've been flipping through some of the BR info I have floating around, and I found three different meanings for the elven word "annwn."

Tuar Annwn/Annwnalach: "Land of Silence/Lake of Silence" (Vos book)

Cwn Annwn: "Hounds of Azrai" (Blood Spawn book)--This one's open to interpretation. Annwn probably ISN'T the Sidhelien word for Azrai, but from the description of the cwn annwn, they're anything but silent. It would be a very, very sick joke for them to be the Hounds of Silence.

Coullannwn: "Shadow of Death" (Book of Priestcraft)

So at the very least, annwn means silence and death. Perhaps it is just a complexity of the way the word is spoken, such as who knows how many words in English, or perhaps the word annwn has a more complex meaning than a simple translation could put on it.

There are certainly words like this in languages--terms that simply can't be perfectly translated, only roughly so. I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, though.

Has anyone else noticed any Sidhelien words with multiple meanings?

[Arjan]

I have used Gaelic/Welsh dictionaries quite often to explain the Sidhelien language, or to add realm names.

As for : Annwn
The link below explains the welsh meaning... somehow it will not surprise you :-)

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/annwn.html

So actually Annwn refers to the shadowworld

Arjan

[Thomas_Percy]

A little off-topic :).
imo BIRTHRIGHT languages are the masterpiece.
Based on ancient and original Earth languages, modified to create new quality.
Even Vos language based on Russian is not a nonsense combination of Russian-like sounds words - many names has a sense for Russian themselves, for example Rovnograd means Town on the plains.

One funny thing is a Marisha Rodelovik from Rzhlev. In the time of communism there was a weird fat Polish superstar singer Maryla Rodowicz (Marila Ro-DO-vich) - Baker and MacComb must met and remembered this name. A lot of fun in Poland... as Greyhawk names King Nasran and iebli (goblins) - both damnation in Polish :)

[Lee]

Maybe it`s in the intonations, like Chinese or Vietnamese.



Lee.

[geeman]

At 09:20 AM 4/21/2005 -0400, Lee Hanna wrote:



>Maybe it`s in the intonations, like Chinese or Vietnamese.



Given the Cerilian elven connection to bardic magic a little "singsong"

tonal intonation in their language might make some sense....



G

[RaspK_FOG]

Actually, most languages axhibit the trait of having words that are either written or spoken similarly but not the other (e.g. bow [BUH-ooh]/bow [BOH-oo]).

[Sorontar]

:^) Complexity is a hard thing to measure in any language. Native speakers tend to think of their native language as not being as complex as foreign languages.

You are correct in saying that one word may have different phonetic ways of uttering it, each with different meanings. Sometimes that can come down to just the intonation and sometimes it differs with different accents. You are correct to point out other languages. Thai is a very good example of a language that can have one word pronounced 5 different ways and speakers will recognised each one as a different word (cf. http://www.fonetiks.org/sou7th.html). But we do do it in English too. For example, do you stress "project" differently in "I want to project my plans for the project." ?

Languages also have radically different meanings for the one word with no change in intonation or pronunciation. For example "saw" as in "to see" and "saw" as in "to saw" and "saw" as in "a cutting implement".

This could have been what has happened in the Annwn case. However, I prefer the general meaning of "the Silence/Death" being a historical meaning for the word, then it later being applied to Azrai poetically. In the correct context, the meaning is clear to native speakers. However, the translation replaces "silence/death" with "Azrai". Think of various colloquial sayings you have that have to be modified or localised when being translated. For instance, do you known what I mean if I ask you to "shout me a drink"? I suspect that that would need translation for non-Aussies even if you do speak English.

Sorontar
ps. it means to "pay for someone-else, commonly at a bar or pub"
pps. "pub" means a licensed hotel or "public house" :^)

[Lee]

In a message dated 4/21/05 8:08:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< This could have been what has happened in the Annwn case. However, I

prefer the general meaning of "the Silence/Death" being a historical meaning for

the word, then it later being applied to Azrai poetically. In the correct

context, the meaning is clear to native speakers. However, the translation replaces

"silence/death" with "Azrai". >>



Sort of a "He Who Must Not Be Named" thing? Sounds good to me!



Lee.

[RaspK_FOG]

Sorontar:
Excellently spoken&#33; Glad to see there are others with similar interests.

Other examples of words with different meanings or pronounciations:

missile: UK - `mee-SAH-il; US - MEE-ssl
record: noun - REH-cord; verb - ree-CORD
(Greek) oros:
1. OH-ross (masculine) - condition in a deal or contract
2. OH-ross (neutral) - mountain
3. oh-ROSS (masculine) - serum