Trade Routes

[Andrew Levashoff]

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Hi,

I have a question that I hope someone can answer. The ruler of a level 4
guild holding wishes to establish a trade route over a sea route, to a
province with someone who has a level 0 guild holding. Would both parties
receive income from the trade route, or only the one who established the
trade route? One other question I have, is can someone with a level 0 guild
have a trade route?

Thanks

Andy



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Hi, I have a question =
that I hope someone can answer. The ruler of a level 4 guild holding =
wishes to establish a trade route over a sea route, to a province with =
someone who has a level 0 guild holding. Would both parties receive =
income from the trade route, or only the one who established the trade =
route? One other question I have, is can someone with a level 0 guild =
have a trade route?ThanksAndy

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[swords]

> I have a question that I hope someone can answer. The ruler of a level 4
>guild holding wishes to establish a trade route over a sea route, to a
>province with someone who has a level 0 guild holding. Would both parties
>receive income from the trade route, or only the one who established the
>trade route? One other question I have, is can someone with a level 0 guild
>have a trade route?

The way I've been playing is that the person who establishes the route get
the income for it. The person who has holdings on the other end get money
from the guild collections. I wouldn't think that someone with that low of
guild connections in the area would be able to establish any trade routes.

Michael

[Ian Hoskins]

On 27-Mar-97, Andrew Levashoff set out across the seas with this message:
- ->Hi,

- ->I have a question that I hope someone can answer. The ruler of a level 4
- ->guild holding wishes to establish a trade route over a sea route, to a
- ->province with someone who has a level 0 guild holding. Would both parties
- ->receive income from the trade route, or only the one who established the
- ->trade route? One other question I have, is can someone with a level 0 guild
- ->have a trade route?

The way I play it is to give income only to the regent who controls the trade
route, in this case the trade route would provide 2 GB to the level 4 guild
holding.
I don't allow level 0 guilds to have trade routes, but if they could they
would be open to easy destruction during any contest action.


- --
Darkstar

hoss@satech.net.au
http://www.satech.net.au/~hoss/index.html

From the Darkness we came
And to the Darkness we must return.

[Sean Brown]

As far as I can see there is nothing in the rules that says a level 0
guild holding cannot have a trade route. Therefore, it would seem to
me that the ruler of the level 0 guild would get the average of the
two holdings (2) in GB and RP each turn

Sean

[Sean Brown]

Apparantly I should have read all the pertinant messages before
writing my last letter.

It seems that many people set up their trade routes so that only the
person who initiates the trade route gets any profit, but I cannot
see how this makes sense. Why would anyone want to trade with
someone else if they didn't get anything out if it. If the two
parties are truly TRADING then they both should get something out of
the deal. Saying that the smaller guild is ignored because it is
only level 0 seems odd, as it would make sense that you coould stand
to gain much more by trading with a mor e powerful guild ( they have
more connections, and thus a greater variety of products to trade
with you...makes it easier to find what is most in demand in the home
province...) This, of course is simply MHO

Sean

[Undertaker]

At 07:09 PM 3/30/97 AST, Sean Brown(brownds@TUPMCMS1.MED.DAL.CA)wrote:
>

>
>It seems that many people set up their trade routes so that only the
>person who initiates the trade route gets any profit, but I cannot
>see how this makes sense.
>

>

As I remember its been the general concensous that if two seprate parties
are involved in a Trade Route, then the GB profit should be split equally
amongst them. This allows smaller Guild Holdings to profit from dealing with
larger ones, and all around makes more sense. If I'm mistaken here someone
please correct me.

Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
RL Homepage: http://www.metrolink.net/~veleda/sepulcher.html

[Sean Brown]

> guild holding cannot have a trade route. Therefore, it would seem to
> me that the ruler of the level 0 guild would get the average of the
> two holdings (2) in GB and RP each turn.>>
>
> 0 level holdings don't generate gold or regency. How therefore can they
> generate gold for a trade route? 0 level holdings exist ONLY to contest a
> current holding and to rule up. Without a 0 level holding you cannot contest
> a current holding.

If 0 level holdings can contest other holdings (a realm action) why
can't they perform other realm actions ( like trade routes). It
never says anywhere that 0 level guilds can't do anything. They
still generate their level in RP and GP every turn (ie 0).

Sean

[Verrrucht@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-03-30 19:50:13 EST, you write:

>

0 level holdings don't generate gold or regency. How therefore can they
generate gold for a trade route? 0 level holdings exist ONLY to contest a
current holding and to rule up. Without a 0 level holding you cannot contest
a current holding.

Verrucht

[utopiaone@qconline.co]

BI>0 level holdings don't generate gold or regency. How therefore can they
BI>generate gold for a trade route? 0 level holdings exist ONLY to contest a
BI>current holding and to rule up. Without a 0 level holding you cannot contes
BI>a current holding.

BI>Verrucht

The guild isn't generating the money and regency, the trade route is.
The guild is merely a staging point for the trade route. The money is
gained through tolls/taxes/tributes paid by merchants to use the trade
route, thus I see no problem with a level 0 guild supporting a trade
route (though it gives little protection for the money that is
collected. If you were really against having 0 level guilds bringing in
lots of cash, a couple of attacks on these poorly staffed establishments
by bandits would change the regents attitude fairly quickly).

Chris
UtopiaOne@qconline.com

[L. Willett]

> 0 level holdings don't generate gold or regency. How therefore can they
> generate gold for a trade route? 0 level holdings exist ONLY to contest a
> current holding and to rule up. Without a 0 level holding you cannot
contest
> a current holding.

Well you have to have guild holdings in both provinces, for a trade route,
we all know that. I think a level 0 holding counts for this purpose. It
acts as a send off point for the caravans, what have you. If anybody does
want you to have that trade route, its easily squashed...
On the other hand, trade routes are the way to make any money, so maybe
forcing players to require at least level 1 guild holdings makes trade
routes more difficult to form ?

[Sean Brown]

>
> Well you have to have guild holdings in both provinces, for a trade route,
> we all know that. I think a level 0 holding counts for this purpose. It
> acts as a send off point for the caravans, what have you.

I don't think this is true at all. If this was the case, you would
be trading with yourself...why would you ever have to enter
diplomatic talks with other guilders/rulers. I admit SOMEONE has to
have a guild at the other end, but it doesn't have to be yours...that
is why you trade..to get the goods you don't have from someone who
does.

Sean

[Verrrucht@aol.co]

In a message dated 97-04-02 16:37:38 EST, you write:

[Undertaker]

At 10:49 PM 4/2/97 PST, L. Willett(trustno1@atcon.com)wrote:
>
> Have I gotten off topic ?
> Are we taking about one regent needing guild holdings in two different
>provinces to have a trade route, _or_ that level 0 guild holdings are
>enough for a trade route ?
>

I think the topic started going in both directions, as each seems linked.
This is how I handle Trade Routes in my game(I'm sure most people differ): A
TR must have a Holding at its start, and finish. Unless it is a foreign sea
TR, more on this in a second. The Levels of the two Holdings are then
averaged, and this gives you the GB generated. If two different Regents make
up the TR, then the GBs are split between them. This way even a 0 level
Holding can have a TR, but it may take some dealing to establish a
profitable TR with one. As for a sea TR, to "parts unknown", the DM should
decide on a level for the Holding that lies across the sea. How good of a
level they connect with could be affected by many factors, like charismatic
diplomats, gifts, etc. After averaging the two Holding levels be sure to
divide them in half, for each side should profit, even "parts unknown". I
like doing this instead of using the Province level. It gives Guildsters a
few extra variables to have to deal with, and can make for some interesting
sesions.

Undertaker, richt@metrolink.net
RL Homepage: http://www.metrolink.net/~veleda/sepulcher.html

[L. Willett]

> guild doesn't produce anything (in other words generate GB's) how can a
trade
> occur?

The income of a trade route comes from the province level, not the guild
rating, so it must by the people who have something to trade (and not the
guild).
Trade route income is also seperate from guild holding income, so the
level of industry that the guild represents is irrelevant...

[L. Willett]

> BI>I don't think this is true at all. If this was the case, you would
> BI>be trading with yourself...why would you ever have to enter
> BI>diplomatic talks with other guilders/rulers. I admit SOMEONE has to
> BI>have a guild at the other end, but it doesn't have to be yours...that
> BI>is why you trade..to get the goods you don't have from someone who
> BI>does.
>
> Yeah, it only says that there must be a guild in the two provinces, it
> says nothing about who must own them (nor are there any requirements on
> levels, but we've already established that).

In the diplomacy action, it states that setting up a trade route is a
diplomacy action, so obviously you can have a trade route between two
different guild domains ?

[L. Willett]

> If you read the Trade Route Action Description, it states that you must
> have a Guild Holding in the Starting Province of the Route but it
> doesn't mention anywhere that you need a Guild Holding in the
> Destination province. Look at the example for sea trade, you can link a
> trade route to the shipping lanes to trade with "Parts Unknown" - how
> the hell could you have a guild holding in "Parts Unknown". I hope this
> clears things up for some people.

Have I gotten off topic ?
Are we taking about one regent needing guild holdings in two different
provinces to have a trade route, _or_ that level 0 guild holdings are
enough for a trade route ?

[Ian Hoskins]

On 03-Apr-97, Verrrucht@aol.com set out across the seas with this message:
- ->Ok but how can "trade" when you don't have anything to trade? If a 0 level
- ->guild doesn't produce anything (in other words generate GB's) how can a
trade
- ->occur?

A 0 level guild may just be an office in a city or town that buys goods then
transports the goods over the trade route to another location where they are
sold for a higher price..

- --
Darkstar

hoss@box.net.au
http://www.box.net.au/~hoss/index.html

From the Darkness we came
And to the Darkness we must return.

[L. Willett]

> Well I've been so obstinate and now I feel like a fool. I was reading
through
> the Book of Magecraft last night and there it was in print. Page 19. A
high
> level source effectively gives a wizard a Guild 0 in the province only for
> the purpose of establishing a trade route.

Eureka !

[Dominic Reynolds]

- --
dominicreynolds@dial.pipex.com



>
>
> Well I've been so obstinate and now I feel like a fool. I was reading
through
> the Book of Magecraft last night and there it was in print. Page 19. A
high
> level source effectively gives a wizard a Guild 0 in the province only
for
> the purpose of establishing a trade route.
>
> Verrucht
>
I would like to see a guild willing to contest this Guild of 0, as the
bandits approach
the hut under cover of darkness, they are squashed by a fortress being
created.