Re Bestiary notes

[Grimwell, Cerilian]

From: Mark A Vandermeulen

>Grimwell, Cerilian wrote:
> >Same goes for long lost magic items. Goblin wizards used to be a power
> > IMC.
>
>So, you believe that the goblins were capable of casting wizardly magic
>before the Battle of Deismaar just like the elves did? Interesting. Anyone
>else think this way?
>

Yeah, I sure do. Your explanation for how it happened and was (for the most
part) lost makes good sense. I would agree a lot with the ritualistic side
of things.

I have two reasons for giving them such power in their past. Both are
important to how I view a gameworld.

1. A higher society and use of wizardly magics gives the Cerilian goblins a
certain distinction from goblins on other worlds. In my first game, one of
my veteran gaming buddies (he's 50) callously said "Ok, we are going up
against goblins..." and listed off a bunch of simplistic items they would
have. He assumed they were going to be stock goblins reduced to scavenging
and barbarism. That they would have no way to manufacture quality items. HE
was the target of four goblin made crossbow bolts (an advanced item
requiring smarts and tech) shortly thereafter. Chagned his mind a little.
To me, these Cerilian goblins ARE different. They were a force on par with
the elves. To face the power the elves have, the goblins would have to have
similar (but different) strength. Otherwise they would have been beaten long
before the men came.

2. As there are not a whole bunch of wizards around to make magic items,
most of what my players find is old elven or goblin work that has been lost
for ages. It's a balance against the traditional idea of elven magic items
just lying around from forgotten kingdoms. That train of thought works just
fine in Cerilia where most elven kingdoms have been lost; but the same
applies to goblin kingdoms. This allows me to put items out there with NO
elven flavor at all. Elves would have a certain disposition on what they
made until they learned to hate men. At that point, items from that time
period would reflect a whole new idea on what powers to have.
I pay attention to the "when" an item I plant (never randomly generated
or made if I can help it) was made. This gives me perspective on what powers
it should have. OR at the least, what appearance it should have. Also, the
idea of a human warrior trying to put together old goblin arms and armor is
just funny. Havent done that, but imagine if there was this old, long dead,
legendary goblin blacksmith who made a whole set of EQ to go together for a
goblin hero. Now think what the goblins would do when it surfaces on a
human...


That's kind of a mashed up interpertation of the things I have never done
more than thought about. I don't have great conjecture on the ages of legend
in Cerilia. I just assume that they had to have certain balancing powers and
wizardly power is a good match. It keeps the priestly powers man brought to
Cerilia as a surprise (ie: if the goblins had high power priests, the elves
would have been ever equiped to deal with the human priests).


>
Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
When you've had the best, why buy the rest?


__________________________________________________ _____________
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[Soviet]

yet Goblins have gods, Kartathok is the Goblin Deity head of an etire pantheon
of Goblin gods...in the rules book it even implies to use the rules for goblins
priests/shamen from the Monter Mythology...

an another thing we all by now now that The Cold Rider is the essence of Azrai
that exists in the shadow world, but what about him does he have a priesthood?
what races worship him? and what is the extent of his influence in Cerilia?

"Grimwell, Cerilian" wrote:

> From: Mark A Vandermeulen
>
> >Grimwell, Cerilian wrote:
> > >Same goes for long lost magic items. Goblin wizards used to be a power
> > > IMC.
> >
> >So, you believe that the goblins were capable of casting wizardly magic
> >before the Battle of Deismaar just like the elves did? Interesting. Anyone
> >else think this way?
> >
>
> Yeah, I sure do. Your explanation for how it happened and was (for the most
> part) lost makes good sense. I would agree a lot with the ritualistic side
> of things.
>
> I have two reasons for giving them such power in their past. Both are
> important to how I view a gameworld.
>
> 1. A higher society and use of wizardly magics gives the Cerilian goblins a
> certain distinction from goblins on other worlds. In my first game, one of
> my veteran gaming buddies (he's 50) callously said "Ok, we are going up
> against goblins..." and listed off a bunch of simplistic items they would
> have. He assumed they were going to be stock goblins reduced to scavenging
> and barbarism. That they would have no way to manufacture quality items. HE
> was the target of four goblin made crossbow bolts (an advanced item
> requiring smarts and tech) shortly thereafter. Chagned his mind a little.
> To me, these Cerilian goblins ARE different. They were a force on par with
> the elves. To face the power the elves have, the goblins would have to have
> similar (but different) strength. Otherwise they would have been beaten long
> before the men came.
>
> 2. As there are not a whole bunch of wizards around to make magic items,
> most of what my players find is old elven or goblin work that has been lost
> for ages. It's a balance against the traditional idea of elven magic items
> just lying around from forgotten kingdoms. That train of thought works just
> fine in Cerilia where most elven kingdoms have been lost; but the same
> applies to goblin kingdoms. This allows me to put items out there with NO
> elven flavor at all. Elves would have a certain disposition on what they
> made until they learned to hate men. At that point, items from that time
> period would reflect a whole new idea on what powers to have.
> I pay attention to the "when" an item I plant (never randomly generated
> or made if I can help it) was made. This gives me perspective on what powers
> it should have. OR at the least, what appearance it should have. Also, the
> idea of a human warrior trying to put together old goblin arms and armor is
> just funny. Havent done that, but imagine if there was this old, long dead,
> legendary goblin blacksmith who made a whole set of EQ to go together for a
> goblin hero. Now think what the goblins would do when it surfaces on a
> human...
>
> That's kind of a mashed up interpertation of the things I have never done
> more than thought about. I don't have great conjecture on the ages of legend
> in Cerilia. I just assume that they had to have certain balancing powers and
> wizardly power is a good match. It keeps the priestly powers man brought to
> Cerilia as a surprise (ie: if the goblins had high power priests, the elves
> would have been ever equiped to deal with the human priests).
>
> >
> Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
> The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
> When you've had the best, why buy the rest?
>
> __________________________________________________ _____________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> ************************************************** *************************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
> with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Soviet wrote:

> yet Goblins have gods, Kartathok is the Goblin Deity head of an etire pantheon
> of Goblin gods...in the rules book it even implies to use the rules for
goblins
> priests/shamen from the Monter Mythology...

Well, I think I've made my opinion of the goblin deities a little clearer
in previous posts (that they're actually very powerful Shadow World
Spirits). It's a bit unfortunate, but I don't own the Monster Mythology
book, so I can't really talk much about it (and obviously don't use them).

> an another thing we all by now now that The Cold Rider is the essence of Azrai
> that exists in the shadow world, but what about him does he have a priesthood?
> what races worship him? and what is the extent of his influence in Cerilia?

That's a good question, and one I hoped was going to be answered in the
cancelled Shadow World adventure/supplements. So I've had to construct my
own ideas (and that's part of the reason I finally decided to write my
Treatice On the Shadow World). Essentially, my opinion is this: the Cold
Rider is the last vestage of Azrai, the Shade or Ghost of Azrai if you
will, the last segment of his personality, but is entirely amnesiac. The
Cold Rider doesn't know who he is, doesn't know where he is, doesn't know
how to get to the material world (or even that it exists separate from the
Shadow World). He knows he exists, and he knows that he has power, but for
the most part he is currently Riding through the Shadow Realms looking for
information about who he is. He is also weak enough that some of the more
powerful Shadow Spirits are a danger to him, so he must Ride with care.

Azrai's body also still exists (or parts of it anyway) and the body still
remains tied to the Astral. It was blown into the Shadow World at the
explosion of Deismaar, and was discovered by one of his High Priests. The
High Priest started collecting all the Body Parts he could find, and
stores them in a cave in Aduria which exists permanently in both the
material world and the Shadow World. The priest thinks that if he can
collect all the parts, then Azrai will come back to life, but in truth
that will only happen if the Cold Rider finds the body and repossesses it,
restoring his link with the Astral. Fortunately, the priest doesn't know
about the Cold Rider, and the Cold Rider doesn't know about the priest.

If the Cold Rider does rejoin his body, his memory will be restored, and
he will be a demi-god. His first goal will be to gain back all his lost
power by killing all of the awnsheigh to get his "blood" back, and then
seek his place among the gods again. Needless to say, this is a Bad Thing.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
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[Soviet]

I want to say 2 things:
1) Treatice on the Shadow World? can I see it?
2) Wow!, you just described my dream Cerlian Campaign to end all
Campaigns...ressurecting Azrai..it would be something like what the Dark Sun novels:
The Prism Pentad, did to the world of Dark Sun...uhm...I can Imagine it now..the an
epic battle between the Grogon and Azrai..,,,who knows ,the Gorgon might even win
and rise as a god....

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Soviet wrote:
>
> > yet Goblins have gods, Kartathok is the Goblin Deity head of an etire pantheon
> > of Goblin gods...in the rules book it even implies to use the rules for
> goblins
> > priests/shamen from the Monter Mythology...
>
> Well, I think I've made my opinion of the goblin deities a little clearer
> in previous posts (that they're actually very powerful Shadow World
> Spirits). It's a bit unfortunate, but I don't own the Monster Mythology
> book, so I can't really talk much about it (and obviously don't use them).
>
> > an another thing we all by now now that The Cold Rider is the essence of Azrai
> > that exists in the shadow world, but what about him does he have a priesthood?
> > what races worship him? and what is the extent of his influence in Cerilia?
>
> That's a good question, and one I hoped was going to be answered in the
> cancelled Shadow World adventure/supplements. So I've had to construct my
> own ideas (and that's part of the reason I finally decided to write my
> Treatice On the Shadow World). Essentially, my opinion is this: the Cold
> Rider is the last vestage of Azrai, the Shade or Ghost of Azrai if you
> will, the last segment of his personality, but is entirely amnesiac. The
> Cold Rider doesn't know who he is, doesn't know where he is, doesn't know
> how to get to the material world (or even that it exists separate from the
> Shadow World). He knows he exists, and he knows that he has power, but for
> the most part he is currently Riding through the Shadow Realms looking for
> information about who he is. He is also weak enough that some of the more
> powerful Shadow Spirits are a danger to him, so he must Ride with care.
>
> Azrai's body also still exists (or parts of it anyway) and the body still
> remains tied to the Astral. It was blown into the Shadow World at the
> explosion of Deismaar, and was discovered by one of his High Priests. The
> High Priest started collecting all the Body Parts he could find, and
> stores them in a cave in Aduria which exists permanently in both the
> material world and the Shadow World. The priest thinks that if he can
> collect all the parts, then Azrai will come back to life, but in truth
> that will only happen if the Cold Rider finds the body and repossesses it,
> restoring his link with the Astral. Fortunately, the priest doesn't know
> about the Cold Rider, and the Cold Rider doesn't know about the priest.
>
> If the Cold Rider does rejoin his body, his memory will be restored, and
> he will be a demi-god. His first goal will be to gain back all his lost
> power by killing all of the awnsheigh to get his "blood" back, and then
> seek his place among the gods again. Needless to say, this is a Bad Thing.
>
> Mark VanderMeulen
> vander+@pitt.edu
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
> with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
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