Goblins in Monstruous anual IV?

[Olesens]

> How different are they from the stats in the boxed set?

As I recall, they are exactly the same as those published in the Birthright
materials. I think the goal was to get people to say "wow, what cool monsters,
I want to buy Birthright." Although I think throwing in a few awnsheglien
would have done a better job of that.
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Daniel McSorley]

From: Olesens

>> How different are they from the stats in the boxed set?
>
>As I recall, they are exactly the same as those published in the Birthright
>materials. I think the goal was to get people to say "wow, what cool
monsters,
>I want to buy Birthright." Although I think throwing in a few awnsheglien
>would have done a better job of that.
>
No! I don't want anyone else to know about the awnsheghlien. Those are
for BR players only! It's our one remaining perk. They took away the "low
magic" thing with all those dang magical items; they threw in some drow; and
then to kick us while we were down, they put a psionicist on the Hydra! I
feel like I'm playing in FR or GH, and the only thing holding back the evil
tide is the awnsheghlien! If we gave those to those stupid FRers, they'd be
putting them in their campaigns, getting their grimy little hands all over
them, and saying "Oh, Elminster could beat 6 Gorgons!" There aren't 6
gorgons, there is one GORGON!!!! Grumble stupid grumble FR grumble monty
haul grumble drow grumble.
Besides, I want my players to feel terror when I describe the horrors
bearing down on them. "I thought you said nobody had ever seen a dragon on
this world."
- --
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/

To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Soviet]

How different are they from the stats in the boxed set?
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Narek]

Daniel McSorley wrote:
> >
> No! I don't want anyone else to know about the awnsheghlien. Those are
> for BR players only! It's our one remaining perk. They took away the "low
> magic" thing with all those dang magical items; they threw in some drow; and
> then to kick us while we were down, they put a psionicist on the Hydra!

Just so I know, where are the drow and the lots of magical items?
- --
Nicholas Morrell - cricknar@ix.netcom.com
Narek (ICQ# - 6560590)
http://pw1.netcom.com/~cricknar/dragon.html - WebsiteTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Daniel McSorley]

From: Narek

>Daniel McSorley wrote:
>> >
>> No! I don't want anyone else to know about the awnsheghlien. Those
are
>> for BR players only! It's our one remaining perk. They took away the
"low
>> magic" thing with all those dang magical items; they threw in some drow;
and
>> then to kick us while we were down, they put a psionicist on the Hydra!
>
>Just so I know, where are the drow and the lots of magical items?
The drow was in one of those adventures I never bought because I read
reviews of it on this list. Couldn't tell you which one.
The magical items? They're EVERYWHERE, man! I was re-reading Rjurik
Highlands the other night to find an appropriate spot to stick a campaign
idea, and when I read the NPCs, every other one had a +5 this or a xx of
power that. The whole rest of the Rjurik expansion talks about how lots of
sources are unclaimed because the land isn't settled and no wizards have
come there. So where the heck did all these magical items come from? The
writer's rear end, IMO. "Oh, no one will believe these are real powerful
people unless they have a Holy Sword." They're kings! In a "low magic"
land! Make them kings, not walking magic boutiques! I just decided to edit
them _all_ out, every last magical item mentioned in the books, except the
tighmaevril weapons. That way, I can control the distribution completely.
When wizards have sources to tap, study, and defend, they have better things
to do than make magical weapons.
- --
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/

To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 8/12/99 10:56:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
mcsorley.1@osu.edu writes:

[Soviet]

do I as I do...have extremly few magical Items..but those that exist are very
powerful...
For example: one of my PC found a shield salled Spelleater that has no plus to
Ac but has a 25% chance to absorb any missile like spell aim at him (magi
missile, lightning bolt,melf's acid arrow, etc..), and there is Swift-Cut an
Long sowrd of Elven craftmanship that also doen't has any plusses but does
1d10/ad12 dmg(much like a Katana) and has a speed factor of 1....
see how better they are than a simple sword +2 and this way you can keep control
on the THACO and AC of the PCs...

Daniel McSorley wrote:

> From: Narek
>
> >Daniel McSorley wrote:
> >> >
> >> No! I don't want anyone else to know about the awnsheghlien. Those
> are
> >> for BR players only! It's our one remaining perk. They took away the
> "low
> >> magic" thing with all those dang magical items; they threw in some drow;
> and
> >> then to kick us while we were down, they put a psionicist on the Hydra!
> >
> >Just so I know, where are the drow and the lots of magical items?
> The drow was in one of those adventures I never bought because I read
> reviews of it on this list. Couldn't tell you which one.
> The magical items? They're EVERYWHERE, man! I was re-reading Rjurik
> Highlands the other night to find an appropriate spot to stick a campaign
> idea, and when I read the NPCs, every other one had a +5 this or a xx of
> power that. The whole rest of the Rjurik expansion talks about how lots of
> sources are unclaimed because the land isn't settled and no wizards have
> come there. So where the heck did all these magical items come from? The
> writer's rear end, IMO. "Oh, no one will believe these are real powerful
> people unless they have a Holy Sword." They're kings! In a "low magic"
> land! Make them kings, not walking magic boutiques! I just decided to edit
> them _all_ out, every last magical item mentioned in the books, except the
> tighmaevril weapons. That way, I can control the distribution completely.
> When wizards have sources to tap, study, and defend, they have better things
> to do than make magical weapons.
> --
> Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
> http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
> with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Narek]

Complete Systems wrote:
>
> A few, yes.
> 2-3 per NPC, no.

I have to agree here. One for important NPCs is fine, but two to three is
alittle much, and even two or three I could see for the likes of Aeric
Boeruine and Darien Avan....but even they have too many because they're
carrying around items with +4, +5 bonuses - in groups of 3!! I started looking
into my Birthright stuff after he told me about the propensity of magic items,
and in the main box set I found a list of magic item holding NPC's which
horrified me. Just look in Ruins of Empire, Aeric Boeruine carries a bastard
sword +4, named Kingslayer....that's ok, but combined with a suit of +4 Field
Plate Mail its too much. Kingslayer and Field Plate Mail +1 are fine, he is a
contender for the Iron Throne. Darien Avan has a Long Sword + 4 and a short
sword +3, they're not so bad, but combined with _Elven_ Chain Mail _+5_, its
all alittle ridiculous...this isn't FR. He isn't even an elf or ruler of an
elven domain. But even those two could be explained away, they're great and
powerful rulers. Its the next page that really hurts - an Anuirean Ranger
who's hook is his tighmaevril spear +5, but why does he need boots of speed
and leather armor +2? Its all downhill from there, nonregents walking around
with bags o' magic items; unneccasary scale mail +2, 20 arrrows +2, 2 sets of
bracers of defense AC 4, and chain mail +3. I'm not criticising any of the
NPCs with names for their items or who have only one, but its just alittle too
much. Tie'skar Graecher and Grimm Graybeard are perfect, one medium bonus to a
prized weapon for each of them...and both are regents (it makes sense). Any
one else have thoughts on this?
- --
Nicholas Morrell - cricknar@ix.netcom.com
Narek (ICQ# - 6560590)
http://pw1.netcom.com/~cricknar/dragon.html - WebsiteTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Narek wrote:


> much. Tie'skar Graecher and Grimm Graybeard are perfect, one medium bonus to a
> prized weapon for each of them...and both are regents (it makes sense). Any
> one else have thoughts on this?

I completely agree. Plus, even if they were renouned adventurers and DID
manage to collect a war chest of magical items, it might be more useful to
a regent to distribute some of the goods to loyal vassals and trusted
allies, to seal diplomatic agreements (if you don't have any of
the traditional daughters :) ), etc. What makes more sense to you: you
have two magical swords, you can keep them both, in case you manage to
loose or break one of them, or you can give one of them to the guy who is
going to be fighting on the next horse over in the next war?

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[breye]

>
> I have to agree here. One for important NPCs is fine, but two to three is
> alittle much, and even two or three I could see for the likes of Aeric
> Boeruine and Darien Avan....but even they have too many because they're
> carrying around items with +4, +5 bonuses - in groups of 3!!

(snip analysis of items on various NPCs

> I'm not criticising any of the
> NPCs with names for their items or who have only one, but its just alittle too
> much. Tie'skar Graecher and Grimm Graybeard are perfect, one medium bonus to a
> prized weapon for each of them...and both are regents (it makes sense). Any
> one else have thoughts on this?

Yep, just one. If something in a printed product doesn't fit into your campaign
for some reason, change it. Aeric Boeruine's magic item list got you down? I
don't see an issue with it, I truely doubt that any player is going to get into
direct conflict with him to the point where his actual items will make a
difference. Avan and Boeruine having stacks of items too big for your taste? Well
they are the top to contenders for a throne that once ruled 3/4th of the
continent, I would expect them to have some good stuff.

breye

To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[David Sean Brown]

> I have to agree here. One for important NPCs is fine, but two to three is
> alittle much, and even two or three I could see for the likes of Aeric
> Boeruine and Darien Avan....but even they have too many because they're
> carrying around items with +4, +5 bonuses - in groups of 3!! I started looking
> into my Birthright stuff after he told me about the propensity of magic items,
> and in the main box set I found a list of magic item holding NPC's which
> horrified me. Just look in Ruins of Empire, Aeric Boeruine carries a bastard
> sword +4, named Kingslayer....that's ok, but combined with a suit of +4 Field
> Plate Mail its too much. Kingslayer and Field Plate Mail +1 are fine, he is a
> contender for the Iron Throne. Darien Avan has a Long Sword + 4 and a short
> sword +3, they're not so bad, but combined with _Elven_ Chain Mail _+5_, its
> all alittle ridiculous...this isn't FR. He isn't even an elf or ruler of an
> elven domain. But even those two could be explained away, they're great and
> powerful rulers. Its the next page that really hurts - an Anuirean Ranger
> who's hook is his tighmaevril spear +5, but why does he need boots of speed
> and leather armor +2? Its all downhill from there, nonregents walking around
> with bags o' magic items; unneccasary scale mail +2, 20 arrrows +2, 2 sets of
> bracers of defense AC 4, and chain mail +3. I'm not criticising any of the
> NPCs with names for their items or who have only one, but its just alittle too
> much. Tie'skar Graecher and Grimm Graybeard are perfect, one medium bonus to a
> prized weapon for each of them...and both are regents (it makes sense). Any
> one else have thoughts on this?


Personally, I have no problems with the MAJOPR NPCs haveing a significant
number of powerful magic items. No one complains that the Gorgon has an
ungodly number of these items (5 tighmaveral weapons?!). The two
mentioned above (Avan and Boeurine) have been MAJOR powers since
Deismaar..well over half a century ago, and we (no doubt) powerful
families before that to be that close to their respective gods that they
gained such powerful bloodlines. I too prefer that the magic level of
Cerelia be kept low, but come on...when you (as a family) have centuries
to collect items, you are bound to gain a few of the more powerful ones on
the planet..

Sean

To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Peter Hodge]

I personally do not have any problems with, to use your example, Aeric
Boeruine's magic item collection. After all, this is a man who can trace his
ancestry back in an unbroken line for at least 1500 years and possibly even
longer! In that time, I think it is easily acceptable that the bearers of
the Boeruine bloodline could have come across very powerful magic items and
simply passed them from parent to sibling. Ditto for the other rulers who
can trace their bloodlines back as far - so Darien Avan's suit of Elven
Chain +5 could easily be explained by someone far back in his ancestry
winning it from the elves (it may have even been presented to his Deismaar
ancestor after the battle of Deismaar).

And now the ranger - rather than dismiss him out of hand - this is an NPC
whose sole occupation is slaying unfit regents. Imagine what the common
people must think of such a man - someone who challenges those who have the
divine right to rule! He would be a legend - almost unbelievable. For him to
carry a weapon such as Heart Reaver makes perfect sense to me - for one it
gives him the ability to take on regents and secondly, it adds to aura of
mystery and power around him. With very little work, this NPC could be used
to great effect - imagine one of your PCs regents thoughts when this NPC is
sighted in his domain, knowing that he has the power, weaponry and stated
goal and killing unfit regents - your PC would have to start wondering just
a little :)

All in all, I am not against very high powered magic items - I prefer not to
think of BR as a "low magic" world as such but rather as a "rare magic"
world. After all, if you look at what wizards in BR can do with realm magic
it is a more high magic realm than most other campaigns - the difference is
that very, very few people can do it. The awesome power of some of the magic
items carried by the setting's truly powerful scions simply puts them even
further above the "commoner" - which adds to the settings appeal for me -
these scions are people who have the divine blood of gods flowing their
veins - you just don't mess with 'em!

Looking through the various setting expansions, I agree that at first glance
there seem to be a proliferation of powerful magic items amongst the various
NPCs presented. But then I stopped and thought "these NPCs are the movers
and shakers of their part of Cerilia, not some average NPCs you find
wandering around small towns. They command either entire kingdoms or at
least the respect (or in some cases fear) of entire regions - giving them
powerful magic items is part of their power - in a world of such rare magic-
those who have it quickly rise to prominence".

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the matter...


- --
Peter "Dragon" Hodge

E-mail: dragon@uq.net.au
Website: www.uq.net.au\~zzphodge

- -----Original Message-----
From: Narek
To: birthright@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August 1999 2:14
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - Goblins in Monstruous anual IV?


>Complete Systems wrote:
>>
>> A few, yes.
>> 2-3 per NPC, no.
>
>I have to agree here. One for important NPCs is fine, but two to three is
>alittle much, and even two or three I could see for the likes of Aeric
>Boeruine and Darien Avan....but even they have too many because they're
>carrying around items with +4, +5 bonuses - in groups of 3!! I started
looking
>into my Birthright stuff after he told me about the propensity of magic
items,
>and in the main box set I found a list of magic item holding NPC's which
>horrified me. Just look in Ruins of Empire, Aeric Boeruine carries a
bastard
>sword +4, named Kingslayer....that's ok, but combined with a suit of +4
Field
>Plate Mail its too much. Kingslayer and Field Plate Mail +1 are fine, he is
a
>contender for the Iron Throne. Darien Avan has a Long Sword + 4 and a short
>sword +3, they're not so bad, but combined with _Elven_ Chain Mail _+5_,
its
>all alittle ridiculous...this isn't FR. He isn't even an elf or ruler of an
>elven domain. But even those two could be explained away, they're great and
>powerful rulers. Its the next page that really hurts - an Anuirean Ranger
>who's hook is his tighmaevril spear +5, but why does he need boots of speed
>and leather armor +2? Its all downhill from there, nonregents walking
around
>with bags o' magic items; unneccasary scale mail +2, 20 arrrows +2, 2 sets
of
>bracers of defense AC 4, and chain mail +3. I'm not criticising any of the
>NPCs with names for their items or who have only one, but its just alittle
too
>much. Tie'skar Graecher and Grimm Graybeard are perfect, one medium bonus
to a
>prized weapon for each of them...and both are regents (it makes sense). Any
>one else have thoughts on this?
>--
>Nicholas Morrell - cricknar@ix.netcom.com
>Narek (ICQ# - 6560590)
>http://pw1.netcom.com/~cricknar/dragon.html - Website
>************************************************** *************************
>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
>with the line 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>
>
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Timothy R. Haney]

Daniel McSorley wrote:
>
> If we gave those to those stupid FRers, they'd be
> putting them in their campaigns, getting their grimy little hands all over
> them, and saying "Oh, Elminster could beat 6 Gorgons!" There aren't 6
> gorgons, there is one GORGON!!!! Grumble stupid grumble FR grumble monty
> haul grumble drow grumble.

As a fan of the Forgotten Realms and Birthright, I see I've been very
stupid. I've been after WotC/TSR to bring back a great setting for some
time now. But I see I'm just stupid. Stupid, stupid. I'll just go
back to my grimy drow in the Realms and leave Birthright to the smart
folk. Thanks for letting a stupid guy pretend to be smart for a little
while :)

- --
Timothy R. Haney
trhaney@mindspring.comTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Grimwell, Cerilian]

>From: "Timothy R. Haney"
>Daniel McSorley wrote:
> >
> > If we gave those to those stupid FRers, they'd be
> > putting them in their campaigns, getting their grimy little hands all
>over
> > them, and saying "Oh, Elminster could beat 6 Gorgons!" There aren't 6
> > gorgons, there is one GORGON!!!! Grumble stupid grumble FR grumble
>monty
> > haul grumble drow grumble.
>
>As a fan of the Forgotten Realms and Birthright, I see I've been very
>stupid. I've been after WotC/TSR to bring back a great setting for some
>time now. But I see I'm just stupid. Stupid, stupid. I'll just go
>back to my grimy drow in the Realms and leave Birthright to the smart
>folk. Thanks for letting a stupid guy pretend to be smart for a little
>while :)
>
>--
>Timothy R. Haney
>trhaney@mindspring.com

That's the danger of bashing any particular setting. While I think Mr. Haney
isstill around (or hope so at the least), one shouldn't belittle the people
who play a particular setting.

It is my opinion that the Realms are a stinker. I will never run a game set
in the realms. On the other hand, I sure won't stop a person from doing so.
When a person asks me which world to play, I tell them go for Birthright,
unless something appeals to them more. So long as they play, TSR profits. So
long as TSR profits, there is a chance for lines like BR to come back.
That's all I want at the core, so I support the people who play the REalms,
even if I don't support the product.


>
Grimwell, wizard of Cerilia
The Birthright Revival is NOW! :)
When you've had the best, why buy the rest?


__________________________________________________ _____________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.comTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Daniel McSorley]

From: Grimwell, Cerilian

>>As a fan of the Forgotten Realms and Birthright, I see I've been very
>>stupid. I've been after WotC/TSR to bring back a great setting for some
>>time now. But I see I'm just stupid. Stupid, stupid. I'll just go
>>back to my grimy drow in the Realms and leave Birthright to the smart
>>folk. Thanks for letting a stupid guy pretend to be smart for a little
>>while :)
>>
>>--
>>Timothy R. Haney
>>trhaney@mindspring.com
>
>That's the danger of bashing any particular setting. While I think Mr.
Haney
>isstill around (or hope so at the least), one shouldn't belittle the people
>who play a particular setting.
>
Timothy pretty apparently knew I was kidding, his message was in the same
tone as mine was originally. The "grimy drow" phrase is the clue ;)
- --
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/

To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line

[Timothy R. Haney]

Daniel McSorley wrote:
>
> Timothy pretty apparently knew I was kidding, his message was in the same
> tone as mine was originally. The "grimy drow" phrase is the clue ;)

Yes, the post was meant to be in a light-hearted tone. But I did want
to warn against generalizations of all types even if not completely
serious. I think the generalization of Birthright as some type of war
game was one of its downfalls when it first came out and it never quite
recovered from that. Remove the regent actions and you still have a
great setting with a rich history. That never seemed to come across to
the larger RPG buying public. Seems many thought it was a setting for
kings only (and not everyone wants to be king or have him in their
party).

But while I'm here, I thought I would toss out some ideas about how to
get Birthright back into the print. There's lots of talent on this list
and I would suggest people write adventures which take place in the
world of Cerilia. Submit a few dungeon crawls to DUNGEON magazine that
could be placed in any setting which use Cerilian landmarks or towns.
Write articles that feature Birthright institutions for DRAGON magazine
that have mass audience appeal (from what I was told, DRAGON is mostly
interested in articles for players not DMs so setting detail has to be
well disguised). The domain actions have overshadowed the setting and
cost Birthright an audience, I think. Since 'generic' seems to be the
catch word of 2000, why don't we attempt to sneak Birthright landmarks,
characters, artifacts, and cities into a few 'generic' articles. As
long as they are easily adaptable to the Realms, Greyhawk, or home
campaigns I'm sure the TSR magazines would be interested in seeing what
people can come up with. I've tried to get a few things in that were
rather setting specific without getting past the 'query' stage (seems if
its setting specific, it has to be the Realms or Greyhawk only).

Since some of the creatures from Birthright have made their way into the
core Monstrous Annuals, maybe some "Ecology of...." articles would
work. When and if, the audience of D&D widens, I'm hoping that
Birthright is one of the first canceled settings to be revived (along
with Dark Sun). And if any Birthright articles do make an appearance,
tell the editors how much you enjoyed them (or appreciated them even if
they weren't quite Birthright). Respond in some way. Show them there
is interest in the setting and let's not let it be a forgotten realm ;)

I do have personal motives for wanting Birthright back on the shelves.
I enjoy setting specific material more (and have bought and played in a
good number from TSR). And I like to see canceled Birthright products
back on the schedule as they were intended. Set firmly in the world of
Birthright.

BTW, did anyone hear about that online game Sean Reynolds is holding
later this month or next (Malak Must Die). If you read the general info
about the game, it says "I'm Sean K Reynolds. I used to be the webmaster
for TSR, but now I'm in the game design department. My credits so far
are for Greyhawk and AD&D products, although I have some upcoming
Alternity, Forgotten Realms, and Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game
products, plus some small stuff written for Birthright and Ravenloft, as
well as a couple of upcoming Dragon Magazine articles." Now that bit
about small stuff for Birthright has me wondering if something being
planned for Birthright or what?

- --
Timothy R. Haney
trhaney@mindspring.comTo unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line