Atlas Prestige classes

[Ariadne]

Another part of the Atlas work was the creation of BR-fitting prestige classes. Meanwhile several PrC’s have been created, addressing completely different topics or specialisations. The first part of prestige classes open for discussion are my deity related PrC’s. All prestige classes are modified more than once meanwile and it is still not for sure, including really all of them and exactly as they are now into the atlas.

PrC’s related to other topics will be posted for discussion later.

[The incredible, edible Phil]

I would suggest in the case of the Doom guard that a character may not necessarily need to be a servant of the cold rider or Kriesha but to have had some contact with the shadow world.

[irdeggman]

I'll have to do some checking, but I think that the prequisites for some of these PrC might be too low. Per the DMG a character is not supposed to be able to qualify for a PrC until 5th level making the earliest a character can take a level of a PrC 6th.

By giving some races class skills of certain skills these should be looked at some more.

Overall I like them, as I did the first time I saw them.

I think I'd work at making them less standard though PrC no longer are either 5 or 10 level classes so there is no driving reason to make all of these that way - perhaps some can be better translated as 3 or 7 level classes. Just a thought. Still good work Ariadne ;)

[Ariadne]

One of the problems of BR are still it’s only few high level characters. If its good or bad is on another page and should not be a discussion here, but I thought, those PrC’s shouldn’t be created for characters with level 10 or more (as the Archmage for example). Naturally, if we compare the FR deity related prestige classes, they are all made for characters level 9 or more and even humans must be of at least 7th level, but O.K., finding an wizard level 20 on Faerun is as “easy” as finding a tainted blooded scion on BR…

@The incredible, edible Phil: Yes. The point is to create prestige classes mainly for clerics, druids and paladins (for the doomguard and wizards/ sorcerers), but not completely exclude all other classes. The doomguard only needs to worship Kriesha or the cold rider somehow, he does not necessarily be a cleric. But maybe especially the doomguard can be created a little bit more open :)

@Irdeggman: First: Thanx :)
Second: Yes, you’re right. Meanwhile there are so much source books on the market, every with at least a few PrC’s presented. I’ve seen PrC’s with 3, 5, 10 and even 13 levels, not included any epic progression of those. “Monster classes” have all levels between, maybe more. WotC has broken its own rules more than once, so why don’t we? Maybe we can rewrite some of those classes as 5 or even 3 level classes…

Naturally I must say, that I prefer 10 level PrC’s…

I’m open for suggestions… :D

Oh, not all PrC’s are this useful for player characters, I have to say. Especially the Doomguard and the Winter Wolf are more NPC related PrC’s. But well, if someone likes to play one :D

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Ariadne@Jan 24 2005, 07:14 PM

@Irdeggman: First: Thanx :)
Second: Yes, you’re right. Meanwhile there are so much source books on the market, every with at least a few PrC’s presented. I’ve seen PrC’s with 3, 5, 10 and even 13 levels, not included any epic progression of those. “Monster classes” have all levels between, maybe more. WotC has broken its own rules more than once, so why don’t we? Maybe we can rewrite some of those classes as 5 or even 3 level classes…

Yes, in the past they have. But with the advant of 3.5 I haven't seen any WotC product (3.5 updated, don't compare a 3.0 one since the "rules" were different then) that broke the 5th level rule. Heck I thought I spotted some in Dragon (while no longer a WotC product but on further investigation even they ahve kept true to the new rule.

As far as numbers of levels a PrC should have, basically as I see it the 3.5 philosophy is to use whatever number best captures the "feel" of the class being done. If it requires stretching to make a 10-level class then don't make a 10-level class.

In general the ones with the higher effective level prequisites have fewer PrC class levels, but that is not always true. The best way to look at it to ask the question "What is this PrC trying to capture or portray?" And then work from there. Pretty much every PrC is single feature or theme and not a replacement for a standard class. All of the ones you put together focus on single theme and that is the ideal design concept. The question to ask would be "is this theme fullfilled at an earlier level of PrC and just added to as the class gains levels?" What I mean was the overall idea to have a 10-level class and thus filing in the levels with additions to previous abilities (IMO this is just fillling in levels since the theme was already met earlier) or are there "essential" abilities to fulfill the theme that need to come in at higher levels of PrC.

Basically there are no requisite number of levels a PrC can have anymore, except that they can't have more than 14 levels without being epic. This is due to the fact that the first level of PrC can be taken no earlier than 6th character level.

There is also no limit to the number of PrC that a character can have. Personally I don't like this and would limit any character to only having a single PrC, but the rules as written do not prohibit this. It is my opinion that in order to gain a PrC a character must have a single dedicated focus in order to be prestige, but like I said the rules don't specify this and I don't see any reason to write something otherwise - especially since the use of PrC is always optional and up to the DM as to how he/she wants to incorporate them into a game. So because of that later "rule" it must be recognized that any application of PrC written will invoke some DM "tweaking" or adaption, etc.

Also there is no restriction on a character switching to another class after taking PrC or taking levels in a previous class. The 2 exceptions are monk and paladin, unless otherwise specified in the PrC description itself. IMO this allowance should be added to the Lawgiver PrC - that is it should state that "paladins of Haelyn may freely mutliclass with this PrC".

[Lee]

I have been maintaining a list of PrC`s from Dragon and as many "brown"

books as I can lay my hands on, and noting which ones I would use or allow in

my BR games. One could say I`m too lazy to make my own up, but I find it easy

to take existing works and adjust them to my preferences. As it stands, I`m

running a low-level game as yet, so it hasn`t been a problem.

I`ve also been trying to make up organizations that might allow access to

certain PrC`s, but that has been moving much more slowly.

Is there any interest here in this list?



Lee.

[Ariadne]

But with the advant of 3.5 I haven't seen any WotC product (3.5 updated, don't compare a 3.0 one since the "rules" were different then) that broke the 5th level rule. Heck I thought I spotted some in Dragon (while no longer a WotC product but on further investigation even they ahve kept true to the new rule.


There are still enough PrC’s who break the 5 or 10 level “rule”:

Examples (all 3.5 Edition):
The Wayfarer Guide (3 level PrC), Complete Arcane, p. 65
The Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (7 level PrC), Complete Arcane, p. 45
Void Disciple (13 level PrC), Complete Divine, p. 72

O.K., the Wayfarer Guide is only a remake of the 3.0 PrC found in “Tome and Blood” with the same name, but the others are completely new 3.5 PrC’s AND WotC created ones. All those PrC’s above are, well, out of standard, but I’m complete your opinion. If a PrC seems to be stretched, I’ll change it, but not necessarily into a 5 level PrC. Best example for a reduced PrC, that WAS stretched, is the Fatespinner: It was a 10 level PrC in 3.0 (TaB) and is now a 5 level PrC (CA). One of the greatest disadvantages of a less than 10 level PrC is the lack of making an epic level progression of it. Well, there ARE optional rules for it, but I agree with the creators, that a PrC only should be made epic, if the character has spend lot of time with it (say 10 levels). This might not be a disadvantage, since I know only few BR epic level characters (mostly Awnshegs ;) ), but IMO it’s worth thinking of..

You’re right, generally it is possible to become 2 or 5 Prestige classes, I haven’t found any restrictions somewhere. The problem is still fulfilling all requirements for the individual class! If the requirement are feats, it is very hard to fulfil more than two, if you’re not epic.

Especially the Lawbringer might be rewritten into a 5 level PrC and yes, I’ll add the free paladin progression for this class :)


How about those prereqs for the Doomguard:
Requirements:
To qualify to become a doomguard, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, intimidate 3 ranks
Feats: Shadow Magic, spell focus (necromancy)
Alignment: any evil
Spells: Must be able to cast animate dead
Special: Must either be a worshipper of the deities Cold Rider or Kriesha with access to the Death (Cold Rider) or Evil (Kriesha) Domains or must have lived and survived in the shadow world for at least three months

Something like that would create the PrC a bit more open…

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Ariadne@Jan 25 2005, 01:27 PM

There are still enough PrC’s who break the 5 or 10 level “rule”:

Examples (all 3.5 Edition):
The Wayfarer Guide (3 level PrC), Complete Arcane, p. 65
The Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (7 level PrC), Complete Arcane, p. 45
Void Disciple (13 level PrC), Complete Divine, p. 72


You misinterpreted what I was saying. I was talking about the rule that in order to qualify for a prestige class a character had to be at least 5th level, taking the first level of prestige class at 6th character level. I wasn't talking about a 5 or 10 level prestige class rule. As you have pointed out that doesn't exist anymore, sort of didn't exist in 3.0 but was a common pattern used.

The rule regarding prerequisites does in fact exist and is being followed by WotC.

[irdeggman]

Master of Terror – a character could qualify with 1 level of fighter and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.

Winter Wolf – a character could qualify with 1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character) Prerequisites need to be increased.

Moon Hunter – a character could qualify with1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.

Guardian of Luck – a character could qualify with 1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric 9a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.

As far as maybe not requiring a full 10 levels to capture the prestige class theme:

Does the Storm’s Fist need 10 levels to accomplish this?

A case could be made to make this a 7 level prestige class. Thundering weapon at 9th is cool ability, but is it really necessary to capture the theme or is it just an add-on to the shocking weapon benefit (2nd level) and used to rationalize a 10 level progression. Same with Storm’s Blessing +10 - the character will already have electrical resistance 10 (5 from the storm domain granted ability and 5 from Storm’s Blessing 5 at 6th level of the prestige class. Just an example of a prestige class that might benefit from some paring down.

Doomguard – I’d redo the special prerequisite to make it access to either the evil or death domains and specify which one applies to a specific deity. Makes the description simple.

The revision you just did to the Doomguard will open this up to just about any Halfling character with that surviving in the shadow world bit.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by Lee@Jan 25 2005, 10:00 AM
I have been maintaining a list of PrC`s from Dragon and as many "brown"

books as I can lay my hands on, and noting which ones I would use or allow in

my BR games. One could say I`m too lazy to make my own up, but I find it easy

to take existing works and adjust them to my preferences. As it stands, I`m

running a low-level game as yet, so it hasn`t been a problem.

I`ve also been trying to make up organizations that might allow access to

certain PrC`s, but that has been moving much more slowly.

Is there any interest here in this list?



Lee.













I think that is a great idea - but should not be included in the Atlas. It fits better as a Royal Library issue. My reasoning be this;

Players (and DMs) should not be required to buy any more books than the core 3 (PHB/DMG/MM or SRD)

and this will end up becoming a running list due to the rapidness of new prestige classes being introduced (and that is only counting WotC products and Dragon magazine not even the 3rd party ones). this is reason I'vedropped any mention of the various published prestige classes fromCha 8 (it would be obsolete before the sanctioning vote was completed).

[irdeggman]

Deleted post. My bad, misread post I was replying to.

[Ariadne]

Whoops! Sorry, that I misread your posting....



Master of Terror – a character could qualify with 1 level of fighter and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.

Winter Wolf – a character could qualify with 1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character) Prerequisites need to be increased.

Moon Hunter – a character could qualify with1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric (a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.

Guardian of Luck – a character could qualify with 1 level of ranger and 3 levels of cleric 9a 4th level character). Prerequisites need to be increased.
Yeah, granted. 4th level characters can’t be…
How about this:

Master of Terror
Requirements: All same, but:
Spells: Must be able to cast 3rd level divine spells, clerics must have access to the Terror domain

Winter Wolf
Requirements: All same, but:
Spells: Must be able to cast 3rd level divine spells

Moon Hunter
Requirements: All same, but:
Skills: Survival 5 ranks, knowledge (religion) 10 ranks
Special: Must have defeated a single undead with at least CR 7 , a character who channels negative energy is barred from this prestige class

Guardian of Luck
Requirements: All same and additionally:
Skills: Profession (gambler) 9 ranks

Just an idea…

As far as maybe not requiring a full 10 levels to capture the prestige class theme:

Does the Storm’s Fist need 10 levels to accomplish this?

A case could be made to make this a 7 level prestige class. Thundering weapon at 9th is cool ability, but is it really necessary to capture the theme or is it just an add-on to the shocking weapon benefit (2nd level) and used to rationalize a 10 level progression. Same with Storm’s Blessing +10 - the character will already have electrical resistance 10 (5 from the storm domain granted ability and 5 from Storm’s Blessing 5 at 6th level of the prestige class. Just an example of a prestige class that might benefit from some paring down.
Yes, I thought this way for the “Storms Fist” and the “Master of Terror” equally. I’ll try to change those two into two 7th level PrC’s and post the changes here…



Doomguard – I’d redo the special prerequisite to make it access to either the evil or death domains and specify which one applies to a specific deity. Makes the description simple.
Thanks. Might be confusing otherwise. I’m sure, you know, what I mean ;)


The revision you just did to the Doomguard will open this up to just about any Halfling character with that surviving in the shadow world bit.
Well, not really. That “any Halfling” still must be able to cast “animate dead”, which means, he MUST be some kind of spellcaster of at least 5th level. That last sentence only should mean, that you may accomplish your goal as a Wizard or Sorcerer equally good…

[irdeggman]

Doomguard – I’d redo the special prerequisite to make it access to either the evil or death domains and specify which one applies to a specific deity. Makes the description simple

I meant to not specify by deity and only specify which domains are required (that is either evil or death). I can see why what I posted made it more confusing. I had only intended to make it simplier sorry. :(

The other changes you proposed seem to work - I like the profession (gambler) one too. Althought the Moonhunter special requisite about defeating a specific CR undead is rather uneccesary, IMO. It doesn't say single handedly so a large group could do it with the character just a member of the group.

Maybe something along the lines of actively defeated either singly or with a group a total of 30+ hit dice worth of undead. What this does is make it a constant theme of the character without specifying any one encounter. Itcould be a few high HD creature or a whole bunch of low HD creatures. 30 HD keeps it from being a an accidental thing - the character must have pursed in some way defeating that number of undead. It also has no specific character level assigned so a low (3rd or so) could possibly meet this requisite. The increase in ranks of Knowledge (Religion) would keep the character from being too low of level to qualify. Although a differrent Knowledge skill might be better - say Knowledge (Shadow World) or Knowledge (Undead) {give the option that is 8 ranks in either Knowledge (Shadow World) or Knowledge (Undead). 8 ranks is sufficient to prevent a character from reaching this goal prior to 5th level, 10 ranks makes it 7th level character prerequisite. I'm not certain if the concept was to force this to be a higher level PrC, that is to have tougher prequsites in order to qualify.

Change special to the following: "Must either have access to the moon domain or have undead as a favored enemy". Dropping access to the domain from the spells section is consistent with the other PrC and making it a simple choice allows for the option of reaching this with an alternative set of prestige class or other non-standard classes (up to the individual DM). Basically it doesn't force a character to be a ranger or cleric, a ranger/adept could work.

[Lee]

In a message dated 1/25/05 2:37:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< this will end up becoming a running list due to the rapidness of new

prestige classes being introduced (and that is only counting WotC products and

Dragon magazine not even the 3rd party ones) >>



No kidding! I agree, Royal Library is probably a better place. Hey, admin,

how do I get it there, again?



Lee.

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by irdeggman@Jan 26 2005, 01:46 PM
I meant to not specify by deity and only specify which domains are required (that is either evil or death). I can see why what I posted made it more confusing. I had only intended to make it simplier sorry. :(

I&#39;ll try... :(

[Ariadne]

Try this one:


Storm’s Fist

Level Attack Fort. Ref Will Special Spells per day
1. +1 +2 +0 +2 Prestige Domain -
2. +2 +3 +0 +3 Shocking Weapon +1 level of existing class
3. +3 +3 +1 +3 Lightning Focus +1 level of existing class
4. +4 +4 +1 +4 Stormlord’s Blessing +5 +1 level of existing class
5. +5 +4 +1 +4 One with the Storm +1 level of existing class
6. +6 +5 +2 +5 Thundering Weapon +1 level of existing class
7. +7 +5 +2 +5 Storm’s Fury +1 level of existing class



Lawbringer:
Class features:
Armor and weapon proficiency: A lawbringer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He is proficient with any armor and with shields.

Spells per day: A lawbringer continues advancing in divine spellcasting ability. When a new lawbringer level is gained, the character gains new divine spells per day as if he has also gained a level in the divine spellcasting class, he belonged to, before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit of the previous class (improved chance of turning undead, increased benefit from laying on hands, and so on). If the character had more than one divine spellcasting class, he must decide which class to assign each level of the lawbringer.

Haelyn’s Courage: At 1st level a lawbringer is surrounded by an aura of courage with a radius of 20 feet. This aura grants the lawbringer himself immunity to fear and spell like fear effects and a +4 bonus on saving throws vs. fear effects to allies. A paladin’s aura is enhanced to 25 feet. The ability is supernatural.

Haelyn’s Wisdom: A lawbringer of 2nd level can use his prestige class level as a bonus on a will saving throw, wisdom based skill check or other wisdom relevant check once per day. This ability is supernatural and he must declare it before use.

Haelyn’s Inspiration: At 3rd level a lawbringer can encourage those he is leading to greatest loyalty. Their moral turns to fanatic and they would follow him even into the Gorgon’s lair if needed. A follower whose attitude is fanatic gains +2 moral bonus to strength and constitution, +1 moral bonus to will saves and –1 to AC when fighting for the lawbringer. He can inspire a number of creatures equal to his leadership score at one time. If leading units he may inspire one of them, effectively adding one to his EL for the heroes unit effects. Further this unit gains a +2 bonus to moral.

Law mastery: A lawbringer of 4th level can cast either protection from chaos or dispel chaos as a spell like ability once per day.

Absolute Leadership: A lawbringer of 5th level gains a +4 bonus to all charisma based skills towards worshipers of Haelyn. His protective aura affects evil and chaotic neutral creatures who suffer a –4 penalty to saving throws vs. fear effects, if they are in the radius of the aura and hostile. This is a supernatural ability.

Multiclass Note: A paladin of Healyn who becomes a Lawbringer may continue advancing as a paladin.
Level Attack Fort. Ref Will Special Spells per day
1. +0 +2 +0 +2 Haelyn’s Courage +1 level of existing class
2. +1 +3 +0 +3 Haelyn’s Wisdom +1 level of existing class
3. +2 +3 +1 +3 Haelyn’s Inspiration +1 level of existing class
4. +3 +4 +1 +4 Law Mastery +1 level of existing class
5. +3 +4 +1 +4 Absolute Leadership +1 level of existing class

[The Jew]

I&#39;m pretty sure that Knowledge (Undead) falls under Knowldege (Religion). Certainly knowledge of undead creatures does.

[irdeggman]

Originally posted by The Jew@Jan 26 2005, 12:55 PM
I&#39;m pretty sure that Knowledge (Undead) falls under Knowldege (Religion). Certainly knowledge of undead creatures does.
It certainly is lumped in there isn&#39;t it. That would explain why 5 ranks in Knowledge (undead) gives a +2 bonus to turn undead checks.

Just doesn&#39;t seem right to me somehow. <_< I mean I would imagine a necromancy having great knowledge of the undead but not as knowledge (religion). Sort of seems like it was just thrown in there since it doesn&#39;t fit with the other items covered by knowledge (religion). Well maybe the Complete Divine or Complete Arcana has some better explanation for this. I&#39;ll have to check. regardless I think that Knowledge (Shadow World) would make a good option (that is X ranks in Knowledge (religion) or Knowledge (Shadow World).

[irdeggman]

Ariadne, I like them. Nice and compact and still have the feel of a prestige class and special theme.

I wonder if the lawbringer might benefit from the paladin of haelyn ability to freely mete out justice. Just a thought.

[Ariadne]

New Try:
Moonhunter
Requirements:
Skills: Survival 5 ranks, knowledge (religion) 8 ranks
Feats: Spell focus (conjuration), skill focus (knowledge religion)
Alignment: any non-evil
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd level divine spells
Special: Must either have access to the moon domain or have undead as a favored enemy. Must have defeated single handedly a group with a total of 30 hit dice worth of undead. A character who channels negative energy is barred from this prestige class


Doomguard
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, intimidate 3 ranks
Feats: Shadow Magic, spell focus (necromancy)
Alignment: any evil
Spells: Must be able to cast animate dead
Special: Must either have access to the Death or Evil Domains or must have lived and survived in the shadow world for at least three months

More confusing? :(




No kidding&#33; I agree, Royal Library is probably a better place. Hey, admin,
how do I get it there, again?
@Lee: Since you’re posting from Birthright-L, it’s a bit difficult. Just open a new thread. If it’s in the wrong part, I move it…

[Ariadne]

Originally posted by irdeggman@Jan 26 2005, 08:16 PM
Ariadne, I like them. Nice and compact and still have the feel of a prestige class and special theme.
Thanks. Maybe they form slowly... :D



I wonder if the lawbringer might benefit from the paladin of haelyn ability to freely mete out justice. Just a thought.
No bad idea, since the Lawbringer might be seen as something between cleric and paladin it would fit in my opinion...

I&#39;ll add it... :D

[Danip]

I love how each Cerelian deity has different aspects which a follower can emphasize more or less, be they cleric, paladin, or mere adept. Perfect fodder for good roleplay and PrCs.
Have you thought about converting some of the orders mentioned in the Book of Priestcraft. Particularly Im thinking of the two orders of Nesirie, the Sisters of the Veil(who emphasize dealing with mourning and loss) and the Speakers (who emphasize Nesirie&#39;s nuetrality and diplomacy). Im playing with a cleric considering soon joining our DMs version of the Veiled Sisters, so we&#39;d love to hear everyones take on that PrC.


My only other comment is to wonder why PrCs have to start at 5th or above level. I understand it is not so prestigous to have a PrC that a second level player could take. But BR is such a low-level world. Only rather strong NPCs will have even started into a PrC. An epic PC who reaches the end of a ten level PrC will be a hero of the ages (not a dime a dozen as in the Forgettable Realms). I think a few 3 or 5 level PrCs that are available earlier would be a great flavor addition. By limiting the requirements in a manner other than something level dependent we could keep them prestigous and/or exclusive. A requirement like must be a royal guard of a certain realm or have studied with such and such group would do the trick. You dont want every 2nd level halfling you run across to be a "Shadow Guard" or some such thing, but a low level group in halfing society just drips with flavor. Of course these comments are most geared towards making flavorful NPCs, but not too much.
Are 5+ levels a hard line for PrCs? Is there an example of a low level setting like BR which slavishly kept this line?

[Ariadne]

Danip said:


Have you thought about converting some of the orders mentioned in the Book of Priestcraft. Particularly Im thinking of the two orders of Nesirie, the Sisters of the Veil(who emphasize dealing with mourning and loss) and the Speakers (who emphasize Nesirie&#39;s nuetrality and diplomacy). Im playing with a cleric considering soon joining our DMs version of the Veiled Sisters, so we&#39;d love to hear everyones take on that PrC.
Yes, I tried to address several Orders of the BoP. One Order, I created only because they were mentioned in the BoP, is the Winter Wolf. Since Kriesha can’t have druids, only rangers or clerics, I thought of this niche in form of a PrC to address this particular order. I thought a long time about the Sister’s of the Veil too, but must say, I had a lack of ideas for something that makes a PrC of this Order some kind of really special…

Maybe you can post your DM’s homebrewed PrC in the Royal Library.


My only other comment is to wonder why PrCs have to start at 5th or above level. I understand it is not so prestigous to have a PrC that a second level player could take. But BR is such a low-level world. Only rather strong NPCs will have even started into a PrC.
I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5. A prestige class is what it’s name promises: A prestige. Making a PrC available to “any” 2nd level character, even, if this world is generally low level, would “kill” this “prestige” thought. Well, on Cerilia your 6th level PC can be compared with some kind of demigod and would mean, generally not much PrC’s are around. I tried to make most PrC’s available as early as possible (5th or 6th level) and I’m completely against equal requirements as can be found for the Hierophant or Archmage, but I can’t go lower with the prerequs…

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by Ariadne@Jan 28 2005, 10:33 PM
I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5.
The rule (or guideline) regarding Prestige clss requirements is on pg. 197 of the 3.5 Edition DMG. It doesn&#39;t give any specific reason, just states that when designing Prestige Classes you should ensure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can take it.

[irdeggman]

If you look at how prestige classes have evolved since first being introduced in 3.0 it is an interesting vision.

The 3.0 DMG pg 27 was much more vague in its level requirements "This almost always requires -in effect - that a character be mid-level (say around 5th or 5th level)"

The 3.5 text is very specific on this and the fact that teh prerequsites must be met before taking a level of prestige class - that the first level of prestige class can&#39;t be taken earlier than 6thcharacter level.

The flood of prestige classes introduced at first (and pretty much until 3.5) were without a doubt all across the board. They were supposed to be at least as powerful as the standard class. Some were much more powerful and some not as much while the prequisites didn&#39;t reflect this. Especially in the 3rd party products but also in Dragon Magazine (when produced by WotC).

The new system is pretty specific while not have set standards as regards to number of levelsof a prestige class. In 3.0 IIRC they were pretty mucheither 5 or 10 levels in progression. I believe towards the end they started to expand on this and introduce more options. While 5 and 10 level progressions are still the most common follow on WotC 3.5 products introduced many with a broader variation. For example the Complete Warrior had Exotic Weapon Master and Hulking Hurler (3 levels). What it comes down to is how many levels are necessary to capture the theme of the prestige class.

As far the 5th level prerequisite being "guidelines", well in as much as any of the rules are guidelines this is one. It is just very specific in 3.5.

One has to remember that the use of prestige classes is totally optional and up to the prevue of the DM. (3.5 DMG pg 176).

[The incredible, edible Phil]

One thing they did learn in 3.5 from 3.0 was to make prestige classes more accessible. Some of the classes really demanded that a character devote most (if not all) his skill points and feats to take the PrC.

When it comes to skills, I choose that characters need only meet a skill bonus equivalent to the number of ranks required (requirement of 8 ranks = +8). It makes for characters having an easier time reaching the PrCs (mostly the fighter types) and represents that talent is also a factor rather than just skill.

[ConjurerDragon]

Raesene Andu schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=2956

>

> Raesene Andu wrote:

> QUOTE (Ariadne @ Jan 28 2005, 10:33 PM) I fear, WotC has written that requirement in some small printed part of the DMG 3.5.

>-----------------------------

>

>

> The rule (or guideline) regarding Prestige clss requirements is on pg. 197 of the 3.5 Edition DMG. It doesn`t give any specific reason, just states that when designing Prestige Classes you should ensure that characters must be at least 5th level before they can take it.

>

Wouldn´t most regents and blooded scions easily qualify for the

prerequisite "5th level+" if their scion levels of the BRCS are counted in?

bye

Michael

[Raesene Andu]

Originally posted by ConjurerDragon@Jan 30 2005, 03:00 AM
Wouldn´t most regents and blooded scions easily qualify for the
prerequisite "5th level+" if their scion levels of the BRCS are counted in?
Only if they were major or great scions, minor scions don&#39;t take scion levels.