RULES: Non-Cerilia BR

[Tim Nutting]

This is for a BR style game OUTSIDE of Cerilia and Aebyrnis. I am looking
at setting up a divine right system using BR rules with the following
changes.

The world will be started as an adventure series with a few broad strokes of
the paintbrush by the DM (me) with the rest of the world being filled in by
player created realms, most likely using the BR system without any bloodline
limitations.

2 things
1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?

2) What about permitting even commoners to attain bloodtheft?

merits and weaknesses anyone?

Thanks

Tim Nutting
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[Tim Nutting]

Will you post the Alternity conversion once you have it done?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel McSorley
To: birthright@lists.imagiconline.com
Date: Thursday, July 15, 1999 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - RULES: Non-Cerilia BR


>> 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules
>> system?
> I'm working on an Alternity flavor of the system, and instead of regency
>I'm just basing actions on the law holding (for administrative/beaurocracy
>garbage) and the amount of money the ruler can afford to spend on the
>action. With the speed of modern communications, those were the only
limits
>I saw fit to enact. The only other thing I've found that you need a
>bloodline for is domain creation (as per the end of the Rulebook), and I
>replaced bloodline in that case with Int+Will+Personality, the AD&D
>equivalents of those are Int+Wis+Charisma.
>--
>Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
>http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/
>
>
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[Andrew-Annika]

Wow twice in one week!
Hello all,

Tim writes,
> 2 things
> 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?

When I converted my own world (which was highly feudal in nature) I
simply used a PC's Level as equivalent to blood points. This allows for
rulers to increase the amount of regency they can use by leading from the
fore and to take an active role in solving problems. I gave no blood
abillities as the rulers are powerful enough as it is. I find it an
excellent way to run any contry and to generate history and current events
in non-BR settings.
>
> 2) What about permitting even commoners to attain bloodtheft?

Bloodtheft in the above campaign allowed the stealing of regency only
(no "blood points could be gained). I define commoners in such a campaign as
0-level. Those who 'gain levels' are set apart from the norm as "Hero Born".
Some may seem to be "common stock" but any who rise above their common roots
to achieve greatness (i.e.. levels) can rule.
These are just the ideas I have used (more or less successfully) in non
BR world settings. I hope they help.

Andrew "The Chatty Lurker"


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[RocksHope@aol.co]

2 things
1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules
system?

Removing the entire blood issue entirely, you could use attitributes
(particularly chr, wis, int), perhaps adding the character's level.

Since the only need for bloodline in the actual domain rules is a "cap" on
domain power regency generation, setting that cap with a ruler's attributes
should make sense in a less 'divine right' based situation.


2) What about permitting even commoners to attain bloodtheft?

considering all the current bloodlines were once "commoners," i don't really
see any reason why commoners should be excluded now. (ok, other than deismaar
was a one-time special event. but obviously commoners are capable of becoming
blooded, it's just a question of how rare that event is.)

I personally dislike the idea that only the "nobility" are special, while
liking the idea that the nobility have a special connection to the land.
(Yes, it sounds somewhat paradoxical. the difference being that there must
be the possibility of a commoner being able to get that connection, as
opposed to knowing from birth whether or not you have "the right stuff.")

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[Muaadeeb@aol.co]

In a message dated 7/15/99 12:52:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
RocksHope@aol.com writes:

>

What I am doing is keeping the Blood Line but giving no Blooded powers for
it. Basically it's a regency base. Then the Regency represents how much
influence has been gained, while the BL determines how much natural talent
one possess.


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[Daniel McSorley]

> 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules
> system?
I'm working on an Alternity flavor of the system, and instead of regency
I'm just basing actions on the law holding (for administrative/beaurocracy
garbage) and the amount of money the ruler can afford to spend on the
action. With the speed of modern communications, those were the only limits
I saw fit to enact. The only other thing I've found that you need a
bloodline for is domain creation (as per the end of the Rulebook), and I
replaced bloodline in that case with Int+Will+Personality, the AD&D
equivalents of those are Int+Wis+Charisma.
- --
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/

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[Manta]

> 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?

Has anyone thought about giving a number of RP´s equivalent to the domain
power. No complications at all - the bigger the domain, the more RP´s you
win (holding RP´s collections restrictions still apply, of course).
As for investiture, anyone can be regent as long as the people in the
province acknowlege the character as their new ruler (either by their own
will of by force).

César Manta
ip209007@ip.pt
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[Joao Clark Medeiros]

"Tim Nutting" wrote:

> 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?
>
> 2) What about permitting even commoners to attain bloodtheft?

How about making bloodlines something that is derived from actual divine right?
Each blooded character is given his line as a sign of some deity's favor. Thus
plplayer character commoners could become "blooded" as a result of merit in
their gods' eyes.
Bearcat


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[Manta]

> Has anyone thought about giving a number of RP´s equivalent to the domain
> power. No complications at all - the bigger the domain, the more RP´s you
> win (holding RP´s collections restrictions still apply, of course).
> As for investiture, anyone can be regent as long as the people in the
> province acknowlege the character as their new ruler (either by their own
> will of by force).

>This kind of kills the need for vassals, though, doesn't it? Why bother
>setting up hierarchal system if one guy can rule the who shebang?


You´re right. But one other thing is true: if you gain RP´s equal to your
domain power and you have a large realm the 3 actions per turn will not be
enough to solve every problem. So, vassals are still very handy as they
provide extra actions per turn (and in this case, you win more actions but
lose the RP´s generated by the land you give the vassal, unless of course
the vassal gives you all the RP´s he generates. But in that case he will
not be very successfull in his domain actions...)

César Manta
ip209007@ip.pt
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[Muaadeeb@aol.co]

In a message dated 7/15/99 4:31:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
rnieves@coqui.net writes:


> Tim writes,
> > 2 things
> > 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?

Well I once considered using it for the Dark Sun setting.....
>>



Yeah....Birthright 2nd edition..Dark Sun..hehe

Love the concept..


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[geeman]

Manta wrote:

> > 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?
>
> Has anyone thought about giving a number of RP´s equivalent to the domain
> power. No complications at all - the bigger the domain, the more RP´s you
> win (holding RP´s collections restrictions still apply, of course).
> As for investiture, anyone can be regent as long as the people in the
> province acknowlege the character as their new ruler (either by their own
> will of by force).

This kind of kills the need for vassals, though, doesn't it? Why bother
setting up hierarchal system if one guy can rule the who shebang?

It's interesting to see so many different takes on using the domain rules in
non-BR campaigns. If anything is going to remain active of the BR campaign in
AD&D, I suspect it will be the domain rules. I have high hopes that those
rules can be marketed to the "mainstream" AD&D community in such a way as to
revitalize the campaign setting, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Anyway, my take on the domain rules in my Cataclysm campaign setting is this:

Regents can collect MP (Majesty Points, basically the same as RP) equal to
their level of experience, plus their Majesty. Majesty replaces Bloodline in
that campaign. All players begin with 0 Majesty. Majesty can be increased by
spending MP in exactly the same way that RP are spend to increase bloodline.

A new ruler, say an 8th level fighter, gains control of a few law holdings and
a province. He can earn up to 8MP a domain turn. (Exp Level+Majesty.) He can
use those MP on domain actions, or he can spend a single MP to gain a Majesty
of 1. He can spend two more and get an MP of 2, etc. If he spends the 3
points, next domain turn he can earn up to 10MP. (8th level+2Majesty.)

Offspring get their parents average Majesty divided by 2 and rounded down. So
the first born of King Balthac (Majesty 29) and Queen Fizla (Majesty 12) would
have 29+12=41 41/2=20.5 20.5/2=10.25 or 10 Majesty.

There are no "Majesty Powers" in my campaign, but I'm thinking of adding some.
Things like Divine Wrath at 20 pts or something. We'll see.

Laters,
Gary
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[Soviet]

>
> Tim writes,
> > 2 things
> > 1) Has anyone thought of a non-blooded variant of the rules system?

Well I once considered using it for the Dark Sun setting.....
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[geeman]

Manta wrote:

> > Has anyone thought about giving a number of RP´s equivalent to the domain
> > power. No complications at all - the bigger the domain, the more RP´s you
> > win (holding RP´s collections restrictions still apply, of course).
> > As for investiture, anyone can be regent as long as the people in the
> > province acknowlege the character as their new ruler (either by their own
> > will of by force).
>
> >This kind of kills the need for vassals, though, doesn't it? Why bother
> >setting up hierarchal system if one guy can rule the who shebang?
>
> You´re right. But one other thing is true: if you gain RP´s equal to your
> domain power and you have a large realm the 3 actions per turn will not be
> enough to solve every problem. So, vassals are still very handy as they
> provide extra actions per turn (and in this case, you win more actions but
> lose the RP´s generated by the land you give the vassal, unless of course
> the vassal gives you all the RP´s he generates. But in that case he will
> not be very successfull in his domain actions...)

Good points. A matter of personal perspective, I suppose. I like using a
bloodline-like score call it Majesty, Mana, Royal Power, Political Pull,
whatever. It gives the players another "ability" to try and build up as well
as differentiates rulers from the "commoners" in the campaign world. (I leave
my democratic idealism at the door when it comes to RPGs.)

Anyway, Have you tried running things without limit? How does it work?

Gary
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[Daniel McSorley]

From: Tim Nutting
>Will you post the Alternity conversion once you have it done?
Sure, I s'pose. I'm setting it up for a StarDrive setting game, using
planetary systems instead of provinces, in the remains of the Thuldan
Empire. I hope to have it finished by this weekend.
- --
Daniel McSorley- mcsorley.1@osu.edu
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~mcsorley/

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[G.O.D. (Games Operations]

I've been working on this sort of thong for some time, my leading choices
right now is a "Rulership" proficiency based off charisma or using the Cha
ability score,as mentioned in earlier posts. My system dose not include
blood lines, and I am still unsatisfied with the investiture process. When
I'm done play testing I'll post the results.
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[Manta]

GeeMan wrote:

>Good points. A matter of personal perspective, I suppose. I like using a
>bloodline-like score call it Majesty, Mana, Royal Power, Political Pull,
>whatever. It gives the players another "ability" to try and build up as
well
>as differentiates rulers from the "commoners" in the campaign world. (I
leave
>my democratic idealism at the door when it comes to RPGs.)

>Anyway, Have you tried running things without limit? How does it work?


No, not yet, so I can not guarantee that it works as well as a system with
a RP substitute score.
I´m converting Ansalon to BRsized provinces and will use that system (RP
collection = domain power) there. Untill playtested I can´t say if it´s a
better or worse system...


César Manta
ip209007@ip.pt
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