Elves of Aebrynis

[Green Knight]

Hi,

Cerilian elves are pretty amazing creatures - immortal faerie beings who migrated to the Daylight countless years ago. That aside, are there elves to be found outside Cerilia or did the settle only there? If elves can be found in other places, are they the same as their Cerilian brethren or very different?

Here are some rough ideas:

When the sidhe migrated to the DW long ago, they settle in many different places, but Cerilia was one of the major areas of settlement (they probably preferred places of natural beauty, like the vast unspoiled woodslands of Cerilia).

Over the years (who knows for how long the leves have been around) some of the elven settlements have been destroyed, while others have changed character.

High Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)
- These are elves who despite hardship have kept their civilization intact. Good example would be the Sielwode.

Wood Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)
- In some lands the elves have abandoned/lost part of their more sophisticated cultural traits. They are still elves and pretty civilized by human standards, but the days of great elven artifacts and cities are gone. Tuarhievel would be a good example of this.

Wild Elves
- Perhaps in some areas hardship or other causes have stripped away the last vestiges of civilization. Wild Elves are still immortal and enchanted, but since they lead such brutal and dangerous lives, this immortality isn't really all that great...Perhaps there are Wild elves in Aduria or Thaele, the Cerilain kind is far too sophisticated for this culture to be applicable.

Grey Elves (ashen Elves)
- Elves are magical and fey, but what happens if they end up for a long time in areas with little or no magic potential (like a desert). Maybe they turn into mortals after a while, becomming the Ashen.

Dark Elves
- The seelie/unseelie split is said to have occured AFTER the sidhe left the SW, and thus the conflict isn't mirrored in the DW. However, if you really want to use Dark Elves, you could say that the DW and the Sw mirror each other, and that the conflict eventually carried over to the sidhe as well.

B

[Raesene Andu]

Where does it say that elves came from the Shadow World? According to Blood Spawn, the elves were born at the same time as the Shadow World, when the race known as the Sie also split at the same time, becoming two seperate entities. The half that remained in Cerilia became the Elves, while the half that went with the Shadow World became the faeries.

As this forum was set up specifically for homebrew type material I won't comment on the rest of your post, except to say that I only use a single species of elves and they are only found in Cerilia. Other continents have other races.

[Green Knight]

Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 17 2005, 11:45 AM
Where does it say that elves came from the Shadow World? According to Blood Spawn, the elves were born at the same time as the Shadow World, when the race known as the Sie also split at the same time, becoming two seperate entities. The half that remained in Cerilia became the Elves, while the half that went with the Shadow World became the faeries.
Perhaps "migrated/came from" is too strong an expression - perhaps I should have picked "chose to remain in the daylight world" instead.

IMO the split between DW and SW resulted in most of the "magic and faerie stuff" to go to the SW. At least most of the sources point to the world having been a much more fantastic and magical place before the split. So IMO the Sie would naturally belong with the SW (with all the other faeries), but the sidhe didn't want that and chose the DW instead.

Hope that made my position a bit clearer.

B

[graham anderson]

Ok here is the way I look at it, the elves were once united under the immortal king Braelachhiem and during this time spread far and wide much like the anuirien empire. They enlased the lesser races they found and forced the dwarves back into the mountains but at least the dwarves escaped being enslaved.

I view the races that are enslaved by the elves having no gods like the elves until daesmar.

The slaves rebel and slay Braelachhiem fracturing the elves into numbers small kingdoms.

I like the idea of an Irda or high ogre from dragonlance nation of elves. Haughty and arogant they have maintained slavery and built an empire elsewhere maybe in the jungles and forests of aduria.

I also have wood elves in thaele .

I like the idea of grey elves as well but rather than the ashen the extream isolationist elves who are obsesed with magic.

Dont know if I particulary like the idea of dark elves but maybe , the elves of tuar annwn are maybe changing with their contact with the shadowworld, maybe a group of elves who have had even more extended contact with the shadow world.

[Osprey]

Rhuobhe is already the prototype "dark elf." His transformation has made him much like a drow, which is pretty cool if he's a unique creature, not so exciting if there's a whole sub-species of elves like him.

IMC I'm more aligned with Raesene - one race of Sidhelien, Seelie and Unseelie faeries in the SW. I took to heart the original history that made Cerilia the idyllic domain of the Sidhelien. When the Adurians migrated, elves and humans made contact for the first time - about 2500 years ago by 550 MR.

On the other hand, I think a lot of your ideas for varieties of elves is interesting.

IMC elves will wither and die if there is no mebhaighal. Their immortality and vitality is sustained by the presence of mebhaighal. Conversely the (Un)Seelie are empowered by the Seeming, and will die if away from it for too long. It's one of the reasons elves and faeries rarely cross the barrier betwen the daylight and shadow worlds - it can be deadly for them.
This gives new perspective to the elven nations: surrounded by civilization their forest homes become like prisons, and wars of aggression become even more lethal and costly to attempt. The wilder areas bordering the elven realms have their own dangers as well (like the Gorgon's Crown and the Five Peaks).

Graham, interesting idea about the elves of Tuar Annwyn shifting toward the Shadow World - a group of elves becoming more like half-breed Sidhelien/Seelie. A bit difficult given the established seperation of the 2 races (the Sie had to make a choice long ago - can they really change their minds now?), but possible.

[graham anderson]

IMC I'm more aligned with Raesene - one race of Sidhelien, Seelie and Unseelie faeries in the SW. I took to heart the original history that made Cerilia the idyllic domain of the Sidhelien. When the Adurians migrated, elves and humans made contact for the first time - about 2500 years ago by 550 MR.

Yes I like the one elven race the idea's i put forward are more different potential culture's the ogre one being those who never gave up their slaves.

[geeman]

At 02:10 PM 1/17/2005 +0100, graham anderson wrote:



>I also have wood elves in thaele .

>

>I like the idea of grey elves as well but rather than the ashen the

>extream isolationist elves who are obsesed with magic.

>

>Dont know if I particulary like the idea of dark elves but maybe , the

>elves of tuar annwn are maybe changing with their contact with the

>shadowworld, maybe a group of elves who have had even more extended

>contact with the shadow world.



Personally, I would stay away from any of the typical descriptors of elves

in D&D, and their associated racial characteristics. Wood, wild, gray,

high and drow elves are all a bit too pat for descriptors (or races) for

BR. There have been a few Dragon articles on various sub-races of elves

(Mist elves, for instance, IIRC seemed apt when I read it for elves from

Tuar Annwn) from which I think we can pull a few references and ideas, but

on the whole I think they should be described as elves of particular

domains rather than elves of the typical D&D "type."



Gary

[Lee]

In a message dated 1/17/05 5:33:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< That aside, are there elves to be found outside Cerilia or did the settle

only there? If elves can be found in other places, are they the same as their

Cerilian brethren or very different? >>



IMO, elves are only on Cerilia, they didn`t feel like moving away, unlike the

humans, who shifted all over the place.



Lee.

[Green Knight]

Originally posted by geeman@Jan 17 2005, 06:00 PM
Personally, I would stay away from any of the typical descriptors of elves in D&D, and their associated racial characteristics. Wood, wild, gray, high and drow elves are all a bit too pat for descriptors (or races) for BR.
Perhaps the names were not very original, but they refered to culture rather more than they did anything stat-wise. I&#39;m not really looking to create any sub-races buth rather explore the posibility that elves may have (wildly) varying cultures...

B

[ConjurerDragon]

Green Knight schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=2936

>

> Green Knight wrote:

>...

>High Elven culture (including some Cerilian elves)

>- These are elves who despite hardship have kept their civilization intact. Good example would be the Sielwode.

>

In "Greatheart" the Sielwode is mentioned to be one of the more rural?

backwater? areas of sidhelien rule compared to the other elven courts.



>Dark Elves

>- The seelie/unseelie split is said to have occured AFTER the sidhe left the SW, and thus the conflict isn`t mirrored in the DW. However, if you really want to use Dark Elves, you could say that the DW and the Sw mirror each other, and that the conflict eventually carried over to the sidhe as well.

>

Dark Elves would also be interesting as Rhuobhes "awnsheglienspawn". The

Gorgon can manage to make human females give birth to small gorgons, the

Hydra has a small population of Hydrakin - why not Rhuobhe, whose skin

turned dark and whose eyes can´t stand the sunlight become the father of

a generation of dark elves?

bye

Michael

[Osprey]

Dark Elves would also be interesting as Rhuobhes "awnsheglienspawn". The
Gorgon can manage to make human females give birth to small gorgons, the
Hydra has a small population of Hydrakin - why not Rhuobhe, whose skin
turned dark and whose eyes can´t stand the sunlight become the father of
a generation of dark elves?
bye
Michael

Possible, except that unlike humans and goblins, elves don&#39;t "spawn" very often. A reverse scenario is that one of Rhuobhe&#39;s awnsheglien disadvantages is that he has become sterile - barring him from directly creating progeny to compete with the humans who never seem to stop pumping out babies...cruel irony, accentuated existing situation, rubbing the elves&#39; Achilles&#39; Heel in Rhuobhe&#39;s face. Seems fitting.

[graham anderson]

Possible, except that unlike humans and goblins, elves don&#39;t "spawn" very often. A reverse scenario is that one of Rhuobhe&#39;s awnsheglien disadvantages is that he has become sterile - barring him from directly creating progeny to compete with the humans who never seem to stop pumping out babies...cruel irony, accentuated existing situation, rubbing the elves&#39; Achilles&#39; Heel in Rhuobhe&#39;s face. Seems fitting.

Possibly but a number of elves are ment to be related to him according to the books.

[Osprey]

Possibly but a number of elves are ment to be related to him according to the books.

But does this mean they are descended from Rhuobhe, or more distant kin (i.e., related through Rhuobhe&#39;s siblings, parents, cousins, etc.)? I&#39;m not even certain to what books you&#39;re referring, as I dodn&#39;t remember any such references (but I&#39;ve not read every last scrap of original BR material either).

[graham anderson]

But does this mean they are descended from Rhuobhe, or more distant kin (i.e., related through Rhuobhe&#39;s siblings, parents, cousins, etc.)? I&#39;m not even certain to what books you&#39;re referring, as I dodn&#39;t remember any such references (but I&#39;ve not read every last scrap of original BR material either).

The only one&#39;s I can remember is fhileraene the prince of tuarhievel (the ruins of empire) who is rhoube&#39;s great grandson, Although I suppose that could be from before daesmar. He also has a son in sword and crown but I know many people don&#39;t like that book. Without looking threw the books that is all I can remember.

[graham anderson]

The only one&#39;s I can remember is fhileraene the prince of tuarhievel (the ruins of empire) who is rhoube&#39;s great grandson, Although I suppose that could be from before daesmar. He also has a son in sword and crown but I know many people don&#39;t like that book. Without looking threw the books that is all I can remember.


It isn&#39;t before daesmar as the royal line has rhoube&#39;s azrai blood.

[geeman]

When it comes to elves existing on continents other than Cerilia I want to

throw out a couple of things:



First off, if we assume that the creation of the SW and the origin of elves

as being based upon that fundamental split then they can/should exist

everywhere on Aebrynis. After all, the SW split was a global

(trans-dimensional, really) event, so the split of the race can be equally

interpreted global. Elves should exist everywhere that the SW exists, and

since the SW exists everywhere pretty much so should the elves. I`d

suggest there are regions of closer or more remote "conjunction" between

the two worlds, and elves would be more or less likely in certain large

regions based upon that kind of thing, but on the whole the race should

probably exist throughout Aebrynis.



However (if one can excuse the circular use of terms here) Cerilian elves

should be unique to Cerilia. That is, the Sidhe as a race/culture/identity

is very much a sort of Celtic/Western European thing. The Sidhe should,

therefore, exist only in Cerilia or the immediate vicinity. (Since we`re

talking about continents here, by "immediate vicinity" we can mean a

thousand miles or so.)



If we are going to imagine an Oriental BR campaign setting and put elves in

it they should not be culturally identified with Cerilian elves. Rather, I

think it makes sense to portray them using more Asian themes. There`s been

some interesting stuff posted about animistic cultures and spiritism

theological thought in an OA campaign described in recent days, and I`d

suggest that instead of (or in addition to) portraying that material as

replacing the Cerilian gods and cultures, it should be incorporated into

them. That is, the BR-OA race of elves should have a few basic qualities

in common with Cerilian elves (immortality, access to true magic) but the

similarities can end there. What if OA elves were the animal/spirit based

creatures that have been described? The animal aspect of the elven

orientation to nature should be played up in place of the Charm/enchantment

aspect of Cerilian elves.



In a like manner, many aspects of other Cerilian elves can be reinterpreted

and given an Asian theme. They can still be fundamentally forest-dwelling

creatures, with a basically magical nature, but in other respects they

should be portrayed as an Asian race. Remove any Celtic or traditional D&D

elf features of the Sidhe (elven chainmail, longswords and bows) and

replace them with more Asian themes.



Gary

[irdeggman]

Another point - elves in the SW are mortal while in aebrynnis they are not.

Reverse applies to the faeries.

I would go with one type of BR elf. The race as described is pretty unchanging (something related to immortality, IMO) so adapting to various parts of the world would seem kind of contrary. Now if the focus is still on preserving nature then it would be possible, IMO. But I hesitate to give them the "normal" D&D adaptations of the subraces.

Again I&#39;d echo the voices to avoid making BR too much an extension of the standard D&D worlds. Part of its appeal was its uniqueness. But - it&#39;s a personnal opinion.

I would, however go with the unchanging nature of the BR elven philosophy to maintain strong similarities between any subraces created. While the elves are mercurial in opinions and actions, they are unchanging and consistent in philosophy.

[Lee]

In a message dated 1/17/05 1:56:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< ------------ QUOTE ----------

Possible, except that unlike humans and goblins, elves don`t "spawn" very

often. A reverse scenario is that one of Rhuobhe`s awnsheglien disadvantages is

that he has become sterile - barring him from directly creating progeny to

compete with the humans who never seem to stop pumping out babies...cruel irony,

accentuated existing situation, rubbing the elves` Achilles` Heel in Rhuobhe`s

face. Seems fitting.

-----------------------------



Possibly but a number of elves are ment to be related to him according to

the books. >>



If his transformation took time to fully manifest, he may have been able

to father children before "going over to the Dark Side." It has been fifteen

hundred years since he first absorbed Azrai`s power.

"Sword and Crown" had a demon, IIRC, as his son. I think I would prefer

a single family or clan of his descendant(s), intermarried with some of his

most loyal adherents of the ghaillie sidhe, as dark elves, living under his

mountain. That seems more plausible than a whole race of drow-copies. These dark

elves would be the faithful leaders of any conspiracy he might hatch, whom he

grants some of his bloodline on occasion.

Darn, that sounds like a whole campaign for PCs to unravel that secret!

It`s Dragon magazine`s fault, the latest issue included a sidebar on "D3:

Vault of the Drow" which tweaked that memory!



Lee.

[Lee]

In a message dated 1/18/05 4:20:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,

lordrahvin@YAHOO.COM writes:



<< Elven immortality caused too many problems in my

campaign, so I did away with it in favor of a sort of

magical reincarnation that elves go through. The

"source holdings" that wizards shamefully exploit for

magical energy are actually the natural dwelling

places of elven ancestral spirits as they await to be

reborn. The more powerful source holdings contain

more plentiful and powerful spirits. >>



IMC, the most powerful or least-controlled/wildest sources manifest as dryads

or nymphs, or the like. They could become the "grandmothers" of elven

populations. I also tied elven reproduction to the provincial source level-- any

reduction reduced the chance of it. Human-elf intermarriages alter the formula

somehow, I haven`t really decided how. I`m still not sure if this is a

process fully understood by the elves yet, but as I am currently DMing for a party

with 4 elves and half-elves, it may well come up.



Lee.

[A_dark]

I used Drow for the elves of Tuar Annwn. The Shadow World&#39;s influence has turned them evil and dark...

Rhuobhe has another son menioned in the Hydra&#39;s description in Blood Enemies. She ate his son... Not very kind of her... bad hydra... baaaaad baaad hydra.

[graham anderson]

Rhuobhe has another son menioned in the Hydra&#39;s description in Blood Enemies. She ate his son... Not very kind of her... bad hydra... baaaaad baaad hydra.

I thought there was another one I just couldn&#39;t remember where it was mentioned.

[Green Knight]

Hi,

I have my sidhe with the "fey" type. I figure they are immortal and have many other supernatural abilities besides, so they actually fit better as "fey" than as "humanoid".

Anyone have any idea/views on this?

B

[Thorogood Roele]

He also has a son with a demon in the adventure "sword and Crown"