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Angelbialaska
01-14-2005, 11:56 PM
Below is the history that I have written up for Brosengae (and Taeghas, since I have them at sharing a common heritage for a long long time). Unfortunately I have been unable to find any real details about Taeghas and Brosengae's history in published sources, so I have been making up my own, out from what makes sense. As always comments are appreciated.

The Tribe of Taegha

As the twelve tribes of Andu fled from the Shadow, one of these tribes was the tribe of Taegha, a tribe known more for their seamanship than their courage. In those days none could rival the Taegha when it came to anything naval. It was also for this reason that when the tribes settled down in Cerilia, the Andu in what became Anuire, the tribe of Taegha settled down in the lands of the west coast, close to Aduria, as the naval base of operations against enemies coming from Aduria.

The greatest of the tribe, their leader, was a man called Brosen and it was from him that the capital province was named Brosien. And the leaders of the tribe followed heriditary rule, due to the great prestige and strength of the family, so the Brosen family as they became known, was leading the Taegha tribe up to the time of Deismarr.

Erroll Brosen was the man that led the forces of the Taegha at Deismarr. He was a man that possessed a lot of tactical talent and he was less of a sailor than most of his tribe and his family, but he made up for it with creativity and passion. He and his forces performed well although not extraordinarily, the forces of the Taegha holding back armies of goblins with spear and sword. As the Gods died and their essense was spread, it was the essense of Basaïa, the Basarjii Sun Goddess that empowered his line.

The Brosen Dukes

After the battle the first Roele appointed the Brosen family as the ducal family of the Duchy of Taeghas and with no need to prove themselves to the people, unlike they had before, the family’s interest in the people slowly declined over the years.

It was only a few generations after the Battle at Deismarr that the Brosen family discovered the value of trade and mercantilism after a visit from a Brecht merchant fleet bringing goods. Before that time there had been little trade in the realm, just enough to cover their basic goods, but Alaeron Brosen, the Duke at the time, developed a rather unhealthy addiction to the golden coins. Within weeks of the Brecht leaving, the Duke established the Brosen Royal Guild and gave the guild all rights to control all trade within Taeghas.

In the centuries that followed, the Dukes of Taeghas developed their lands and cultivated new lands. The expansion stopped in the North at the Elfwash river and later in the south the duchy stretched all the way down to Bindier. But like Alaeron Brosen, the dukes that followed had inherited the hunger for gold and they ordered for more and more expansion of their guilds. The Seamist Mountains, despite being filled with monsters, was stripmined for resources, the forests that covered the provinces that are making up the northern Taeghas, Bhaine, Bayside and Portage was cut to lumber and exported or made into merchantships.

Two deities became the commonly accepted beliefs in Taeghas. The Peaceful Seas of Nesirie was popular ever since Deismarr, in particular among the common people, especially the sailors and fishermen. Saramie’s Temple of Fortune was attracted to the nobility and the guilders of the realm and was very popular among those with money.

The Brosen family grew richer and richer and with those riches they developed a taste for lavishness. But the vast size of Taeghas and the control of the Brosen Royal Guild, did make the family so rich that they could afford it and not concern themselves particularly with much of what took place in their realm.

A millenia passed since the Brosen family received the ducal title and the nobility grew further and further apart from their population. In the end this led to the fall of the Brosen family.

A rebellious time

Most of the noble families of Taeghas accepted the state that the realm was in. Most of them spent as much time in the ducal court as they did in their own mansions, so they had little reason to complain. But the common population and some of the nobles studying magic, saw the destruction of the natural mebhaigl and the destruction of the land. A few of these nobles and commoners united in 944 HC, but the rebellion was crushed by the forces. This rebellion didn’t get the Brosen family to grow concerned though.

Then in 953 HC the commoners and nobles joined up with one of the larger of the Taeghan families, known for their powerful magic and unseen by the Brosen family, they established sources in the few remaining sources. And two years later the common populace rebelled once again and this time, with the aid of the wizards, monsters summoned and common people taking up arms, Taeghas erupted in a very bloody civil war. The treasury of the Brosen family, most likely the largest at the time, was used to buy large amounts of mercenaries.

Vaelyn Brosen was the Duke at the time and he asked the Emperor for aid, but at that time, only about a decade before the fall of the Empire, the Emperor’s position was already weak and no aid was given to the Brosen family in defending their own realm.

But even the greatest treasury is emptied when supporting large armies of mercenaries and in the end Caer Brosien fell and hundreds of members of the royal family was slaughtered and many executed. But a handful, including Vaelyn and his daughter, escaped and they fled to the south, to the lands held for the Brosen family by the count of Marilen, Derek Mierelen, who remained loyal to the Brosen family, despite the rest of the realm being in chaos. These provinces were Marilen, Bindier and Coere.

The creation of Brosengae

In the years that followed the County of Marilen kept having clashes with Taeghas. After Lady Adriana Brosen, the only child of Duke Vaelyn Brosen married with Derek Mierelen, there was one condition. Derek Mierelen would become the lawful heir to the ducal house and in return the County would be renamed to the Duchy of Brosengae. The Count agreed and this way the Marilen became Brosengae. Officially this happened in 959 HC.

Brosengae and Taeghas each took different sides when the Emperor needed support in the very last days to ensure their dominance over the Boeruine. Brosengae fought side by side with Avanil and the Emperor and they won a minor victory over Taeghas, but it was not enough to reclaim what was theirs.

The Empire fell and now there was no help to be gained from the Emperor to reclaim Taeghas. The few remaining guilds in Taeghas was burned and much of what was build was destroyed during the war, most importantly, the province of Brosien was one of the largest in the past, but with the rebellion it was now nothing near the greatness that it once held. In response to the burned guilds, Brosengae destroyed the natural deposits of mebhaigl and outlawed wizards within their realm.

The rise of Brosengae

In the years since the rebellion and the fall of the Empire Brosengae has grown and regained some strength, although the ruling family is no longer one of the most important anymore. The wars of the past are still not forgotten between the two brother realms and most likely will not for as long as Taeghas is holding provinces that Brosengae feels entitled to rule, especially Brosien and Islien.

In 84 MC the capital of Brosengae was moved from Marilen to Bindier, due to Marilen’s closeness to Taeghas and the continuing monsters from the Seamists, something which continues even to this day At the same time Brosengae also rebuild Caer Brosen, which they located in the new capital city and this was to become the new ducal seat.

In 244 MC Duke Aeric Mierelen neared his 70th year and he was still without any male heirs. He summoned his closest advisors and asked for their advise for what could be done to keep the ducal title. There were several suggestions, but in the end one was settled upon. Lady Danae Mierelen was Aeric’s oldest daughter and her husband was dead by plague years earlier. She had 3 children, but all were girls and the daughter younger than Danae had still no children. He could not allow himself to wait anymore. So he created the Equality Decree, in which the oldest child of the deceased duke or duchess should be the one to inherit Brosengae regardless of their gender, but that when marrying the name of Mierelen should be taken by the husband if the ruler was a duchess or the heir was a woman.

Eriene Mierelen, Duchess of Brosengae

In 480 MC the young Merric Mierelen went on a journey to become a man and learn more about the world. Nothing is really known about this journey, with the exception that he returned to Brosengae with a Sidhelien woman carrying the name of Cyrenda. The couple married shortly after arriving back to Brosengae. Rumors had it that the elf would be childless and that Merric would have no heirs and for almost 40 years, Merric into his 60s at that point, Cyrenda was barren.

But in 523 MC Cyranda gave birth to a half-elven girl and she was named Eriene Mierelen and was shortly after the birth named heir, since Merric was getting old. However perhaps some of the Sidhelien longivity had been in him and Eriene grew up without becoming ruler, as she had reached her 23rd year in 546 MC before Merric, at that time almost 100 years old, finally went to meet with Saramie, leaving a realm in a good condition to his daughter.

In the time that has passed since Eriene taken over, the young girl has shown quite some keen business skills and she made a vassal agreement with Avanil and in return she was allowed to establish the Brosen Royal Guild in the realm and she has even expanded into Tuornen, where she also holds some influence. What she wants the most though is Taeghas.

However Eriene’s skill has been kept down by the nature of her family. By demand of the large family she’s forced to keep up one of the largest courts in all of Anuire and she and the nobles at her court are those that create the fashion among the rich and young of Anuire. And if nothing changes, she’ll grow just as lawish as her ancestors, which will weaken Brosengae once again.

graham anderson
01-15-2005, 12:07 AM
there was 4 tribes of andu who survived and only five to begin with. All the tribal leaders but roele died at daesmar leaving him the only overlord. The books have brosengae siding with boeruine not the emperor in the civil war.

Lee
01-15-2005, 02:00 AM
In a message dated 1/14/05 7:16:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< As always comments are appreciated. >>



Thanks, this looks good to me, with one exception. Since Taeghas and

Brosengae are both so close to the Manslayer`s realm, I would have thought his

ghaillie sidhe would have been mentioned a few times, rather than just "monsters

from the Seamists."



Lee.

Angelbialaska
01-15-2005, 02:43 AM
Altering Brosengae to side with Boeruine isn&#39;t too difficult. And neither is it to include something about the plagues from Rhuobhe.

As for there being only four tribes, then I point to Player&#39;s Secrets of Roesone, where there&#39;s a Fifth tribe under Prince Diem the Deretha. And 5th tribe becomes 5th archduke. You do the calculation...

graham anderson
01-15-2005, 03:04 AM
As for there being only four tribes, then I point to Player&#39;s Secrets of Roesone, where there&#39;s a Fifth tribe under Prince Diem the Deretha. And 5th tribe becomes 5th archduke. You do the calculation...

It says in the book of regency there were five tribes of andu and the deretha were wipped out by the spider. Prince diem may claim to be deretha but I would say it is just that a claim and nothing more. It specificaly says five tribes of which four survived. It also says that the spider led his armies as far as the staits of aerele and depopulated the area.

Angelbialaska
01-15-2005, 03:22 AM
I think Ed Stark may have messed up about that.

Rich Baker was writer of the Birthright setting and PS Roesone. Ed Stark wasn&#39;t even credited in the BRCS.

As I see it, then Stark skimmed things, noticed the five tribes mentioned (the original tribes where Andu was one of), then saw one getting eradicated and used the name Deretha which were most likely on some notes somewhere.

Book of Regency isn&#39;t even TSR, it&#39;s Wizards and has completely different people in charge of it than those who did the original work. Wasn&#39;t Book of Regency created as some sort of present to the fans of Birhtright, rather than as something original?

Green Knight
01-15-2005, 08:26 AM
The BoR is indeed a TSR product and it is very much official. Remember that the reason the BoR didn&#39;t get printed was because the BR line got cancelled. Let&#39;s just be happy the WotC decided to share this material with us.

As for inconsistency this is just one of many, and not one of the worst I think. Indeed, the PS of Roesone doesn&#39;t really mention twelve Houses. It only says that the Deretha was the Fifth House (but not of how many) and that Diem was a prince of the Deretha and was rewarded with the Duch of Diemed (which was the 5th of 12).

So while it could be argued there were 12 Houses, it really isn&#39;t too clearly stated in the PS of Roesone.

B

Raesene Andu
01-15-2005, 09:37 AM
This was discussed some time ago by the Atlas team when this project was first being set up. We decided that there were 5 tribes, but grouped into 12 houses.

Here is the final post from the original discussion.


I think the best way to resolve the 5 tribes vs. 12 tribes contradiction is to say that there were either five major tribes and 7 minor ones, or that the twelve tribes were loosely organized into five major alliance-groups (each probably named for the leading/largest/most powerful tribe). With such an arraingement it is easy to explain why the earliest documents refer to only 5 tribes when there were actually more than that.

I would nominate the following as candidates for the "major" tribes:
1. "Anwe/Aeloran"
2. Boru
3. Mhora
4. Elaime
5. Deretha

If we want to go with alliange-groups, these might make natural groupings:

1. Anwe, Gehaiste, Bheallach
2. Boru, Duireina, Brosen
3. Mhora, Elin
4. Elaime, Carel
5. Deretha, Aeren

Raesene Andu
01-15-2005, 09:44 AM
And for those who were wondering.

Anwe = Avanil
Gehaiste = Ghieste
Bheallach = Dhalaene
Boru = Boeruine
Duireina = Osoerde
Brosen = Taeghas
Mhora = Mhoried
Elin = Elinie
Elamie = Alamie
Carel = Cariele
Deretha = Diemed
Aeren = Aerenwe

Angelbialaska
01-15-2005, 12:59 PM
This may be a silly question, but how does Boeruine and Taeghas fit in with Osoerde as the last part of their family?

ConjurerDragon
01-15-2005, 01:30 PM
Angelbialaska schrieb:



>This post was generated by the Birthright.net message forum.

> You can view the entire thread at:

> http://www.birthright.net/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=24&t=2931

>

> Angelbialaska wrote:

>

...



>The Tribe of Taegha

>As the twelve tribes of Andu fled from the Shadow, one of these tribes was the tribe of Taegha, a tribe known more for their seamanship than their courage. In those days none could rival the Taegha when it came to anything naval. It was also for this reason that when the tribes settled down in Cerilia, the Andu in what became Anuire, the tribe of Taegha settled down in the lands of the west coast, close to Aduria, as the naval base of operations against enemies coming from Aduria.

>

A problem I would see is that before Deismaar there are several partys

who are superior sailors. The Brecht sail around half the continent to

Brechtür. The Rjuven also sail northward. The Masetians are the most

renowned sailors before Deismaar. Even the Basarji come from Djapar by

sea as accomplished seafarers. Perhaps you could make that statement

that the Taegha were the best sailors "of the Andu"?



>In the centuries that followed, the Dukes of Taeghas developed their lands and cultivated new lands. The expansion stopped in the North at the Elfwash river and later in the south the duchy stretched all the way down to Bindier. But like Alaeron Brosen, the dukes that followed had inherited the hunger for gold and they ordered for more and more expansion of their guilds. The Seamist Mountains, despite being filled with monsters, was stripmined for resources, the forests that covered the provinces that are making up the northern Taeghas, Bhaine, Bayside and Portage was cut to lumber and exported or made into merchantships.

>

The seamist mountains are mentioned in the novel about the Anuirean

civil war (Iron Throne?). Michael Roeles army dropped out of the

Shadowworld in these mountains and his army fought one tribe of

Stoncecrown Ogres there who attacked an ARMY to defend their territorry.

Mining in these mountains before without an army sounds suicidal and

would likely mean a very high deathtoll among miners.



Something I miss is the crucial position of Brosengae regarding the ONLY

pass through the mountains passable by an army south of Rhuobhe.

bye

Michael...

Lee
01-15-2005, 07:10 PM
In a message dated 1/15/05 3:38:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< As for inconsistency this is just one of many, and not one of the worst I

think. Indeed, the PS of Roesone doesn`t really mention twelve Houses. It only

says that the Deretha was the Fifth House (but not of how many) and that Diem

was a prince of the Deretha and was rewarded with the Duch of Diemed (which

was the 5th of 12).



So while it could be argued there were 12 Houses, it really isn`t too

clearly stated in the PS of Roesone. >>



It could easily be that the Emperor decided twelve Dukes was a nice round (or

mystical) number for divvying up the Empire.



Lee.

Green Knight
01-15-2005, 08:50 PM
Under no circumstances does it seem plausible to me that there were

exactly 12 political entities that migrated to Cerilia during the Flight

from Shadow, then the very same 12 entities fought the Shadow 500 years

later, and then mysteriously the same 12 entities ended up with one

realm each under Roele...



I think you can get away with a lot in fantasy world design - but this

is not suspension of disbelief to me...anything is preferable, I`d even

go with the Emperor Roele just liking the number 12 and investing the 12

first scions he could find.



B



-----Original Message-----

From: Birthright Roleplaying Game Discussion

[mailto:BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM] On Behalf Of Lee Hanna

Sent: 15. januar 2005 19:33

To: BIRTHRIGHT-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM

Subject: Re: Brosengaen (and some Taeghan history) [24#2931]



In a message dated 1/15/05 3:38:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< As for inconsistency this is just one of many, and not one of the

worst I

think. Indeed, the PS of Roesone doesn`t really mention twelve Houses.

It only

says that the Deretha was the Fifth House (but not of how many) and that

Diem

was a prince of the Deretha and was rewarded with the Duch of Diemed

(which

was the 5th of 12).



So while it could be argued there were 12 Houses, it really isn`t too

clearly stated in the PS of Roesone. >>



It could easily be that the Emperor decided twelve Dukes was a nice

round (or

mystical) number for divvying up the Empire.



Lee.



************************************************** **********************

****



Birthright-l Archives:

http://oracle.wizards.com/archives/birthright-l.html

The incredible, edible Phil
01-18-2005, 03:29 AM
The number 12 holds significance for it was the number of apostles that followed Jesus. In a way one could see Roele as a religious figure (in fact I would think the Church of Haelyn would), with the 12 dukes as his closest allies/friends that helped him carve out the greatest Empire and achievement known to Cerilia.

Lee
01-18-2005, 03:50 PM
In a message dated 1/17/05 10:58:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

brnetboard@BIRTHRIGHT.NET writes:



<< The incredible, edible Phil wrote:

The number 12 holds significance for it was the number of apostles that

followed Jesus. In a way one could see Roele as a religious figure (in fact I

would think the Church of Haelyn would), with the 12 dukes as his closest

allies/friends that helped him carve out the greatest Empire and achievement known

to Cerilia. >>



It goes beyond that-- "magic numbers" like 3, 7, 12, and 40 appear

continually in all kind of religious and non-religious myths, legends and so on.



Lee.

Fearless_Leader
01-21-2005, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 15 2005, 01:44 AM
And for those who were wondering.


Duireina = Osoerde

Actually, the Duriena became Taeghas according to those previous discussions... not Osoerde.

Angelbialaska
01-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Raesene Andu@Jan 15 2005, 10:44 AM
And for those who were wondering.

Anwe = Avanil
Gehaiste = Ghieste
Bheallach = Dhalaene
Boru = Boeruine
Duireina = Osoerde
Brosen = Taeghas
Mhora = Mhoried
Elin = Elinie
Elamie = Alamie
Carel = Cariele
Deretha = Diemed
Aeren = Aerenwe
What is the reason to promote Ghieste to one of the duchies?

According to Book of Priestcraft (p. 41) the first church of Cuieracien established in the sixth century after Deismarr in Rhumannen in the Barony of Ghieste.

Raesene Andu
01-28-2005, 10:51 AM
Ghieste was always one of the original 12 duchies. If the BoP mentions a barony of Ghieste, then it is wrong.

Angelbialaska
01-28-2005, 07:06 PM
Where is it mentioned that Ghieste was one of the original duchies? We just know that there was a duchy within the area of Ghoere, but that could as easily be Bhalaene as Ghieste.

And why do everybody want 2 duchies in Ghoere? Ruins of Empire states that it was one and it even names the remaining 11 duchies. Does this mean that there was 13 duchies?

Raesene Andu
01-28-2005, 08:33 PM
There were two duchies within the borders of Ghoere, Ghieste and Bhalaene. Ghoere was formed from both, which is what makes it such a powerful realm.

The incredible, edible Phil
01-28-2005, 08:45 PM
There were 12 duchies. Offhand they are:

Aerenwe
Alamie
Avanil
Bhalaene/now part of Ghoere
Boeruine
Cariele/ruling family moved to Coeranys
Diemed
Elinie
Ghieste/now part of Ghoere
Mhoried
Osoerde
Taeghas/Brosengae

Angelbialaska
01-29-2005, 03:35 PM
If Diemed and Roesone unite, then they are just as strong as Ghoere, so this doesn&#39;t mean that you need to be duke to hold power or even hold a duchy. Just look at Dhoesone compared to Cariele.

The Atlas in the boxed sets mentions 12 duchies too. These are:

Aerenwe
Alamie
Avanil
Boeruine
Cariele (Ruling family relocated to Coeranys)
Diemed
Elinie
Mhoried
Osoerde
Taeghas (Ruling family in Brosengae?)
Talinie
And one more Duchy which was located in what is now Ghoere.

In Book of Priestcraft we learn that there is a Barony of Ghieste in what land Ghoere has taken. Book of Regency just says that Ghoere is formed of two weaker kingdoms (which is used to describe a realm in Birthright).

From what sources do we have Bhalaene and Ghieste as Duchies?

Thorogood Roele
08-13-2005, 11:33 PM
From what sources do we have Bhalaene and Ghieste as Duchies?


There is a map in the Novel "Iron Throne" that indicates the 12 duchies, in that Ghieste and Dhalaene are included.

Here they are according to that novel
Avanil, Taeghas, Boeruine, Alamie, Mhoried, Cariele, Elinie, Osoerde, Aerenwe, Dhalaene (part of ghoere), Ghieste and Diemed. It lists border nations as the following: Mieres, brosengae talinie the five peaks thurazor dhosone tuarhieval the gorgons crown murkilad markazor the sielewode coeranys.

As far as the whole discussion about 5 tribes, 12 tribes, people are mistaking this... .original canon birthright material explains that 5 tribes originally came from aduria and one from across the seas... the 5 are andu, brecht, vos, rjurik and masetian, with the basarji coming from another land... (or maybe basarji, masetian the other way around) however the houses of the andu are also refered to as tribes in various places.... but I have seen in no canon place the exact number of house tribes that I can distinctly remember, but I also have the number 12 stuck in my head from somewhere that I believe was from a tsr br product. But it does say that Roele formed the duchies from the original house tribes. So Raesene's post on the fact that there were 12 house tribes makes since, but I would expand that to say that the border nations may have been house tribes also, just not made into duchies (or at least the border nations that are human anyways). These may have been subtribes of the original house tribes that did not remain part of the house tribes after deismaar, due to the warlord of the house tribe being weakened and not able to keep them in check. Those being brosengae, dhosone and coeranys, with Mieres always being stated as a colony of the empire.

btw I have transcribed the nations boundries according to the map onto a provincial map of anuire if someone will remind me how to get it posted on here, I'll send it.

Thorogood Roele
09-08-2005, 06:52 AM
This information is a quote from "Tarazin the Gray" from Dragon 218

"Tarazin agreed and attacked the settlements and camps of the Elin, the eighth house of the invading humans."

Thus there has to be more than 5 tribes of the Andu.

Urban fox
09-30-2005, 05:59 PM
If Diemed and Roesone unite, then they are just as strong as Ghoere, so this doesn't mean that you need to be duke to hold power or even hold a duchy. Just look at Dhoesone compared to Cariele.

The Atlas in the boxed sets mentions 12 duchies too. These are:

Aerenwe
Alamie
Avanil
Boeruine
Cariele (Ruling family relocated to Coeranys)
Diemed
Elinie
Mhoried
Osoerde
Taeghas (Ruling family in Brosengae?)
Talinie
And one more Duchy which was located in what is now Ghoere.

In Book of Priestcraft we learn that there is a Barony of Ghieste in what land Ghoere has taken. Book of Regency just says that Ghoere is formed of two weaker kingdoms (which is used to describe a realm in Birthright).

From what sources do we have Bhalaene and Ghieste as Duchies?


Ghoere's history describes how the nation was formed from the 2 ruined duchies Bhalaene and Ghieste.

http://www.bloodsilver.com/conservatory.php?aid=26


You also forgot about Tuornon it was once part of Alamie, and the ruleing families the 2 countries are related.

LaeAndril Rayn
04-11-2006, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Thorogood Roele
As far as the whole discussion about 5 tribes, 12 tribes, people are mistaking this... .original canon birthright material explains that 5 tribes originally came from aduria and one from across the seas... the 5 are andu, brecht, vos, rjurik and masetian, with the basarji coming from another land... (or maybe basarji, masetian the other way around) however the houses of the andu are also refered to as tribes in various places.... but I have seen in no canon place the exact number of house tribes that I can distinctly remember, but I also have the number 12 stuck in my head from somewhere that I believe was from a tsr br product. But it does say that Roele formed the duchies from the original house tribes. So Raesene's post on the fact that there were 12 house tribes makes since, but I would expand that to say that the border nations may have been house tribes also, just not made into duchies (or at least the border nations that are human anyways). These may have been subtribes of the original house tribes that did not remain part of the house tribes after deismaar, due to the warlord of the house tribe being weakened and not able to keep them in check. Those being brosengae, dhosone and coeranys, with Mieres always being stated as a colony of the empire.

I have a pretty large collection of original 2nd Ed Birthright material, including all the contents of the campaign setting boxed set. I have studied and studied all the material regarding this issue, and I must agree with Thorogood Roele.

According to the material I have, there were 6 total "tribes" that settled Cerilia. 5 of these "tribes" came from Aduria during the Flight from Shadow: The Andu (Anuireans), the Brecht peoples, the Reynir (Rjurik), the Vosgaard (Vos), and the Masetians (now believed to be extinct). The Basarji (Khinasi) came from some land "beyond the Sea of Dragons". I haven't found whether the 2nd Ed BR books mention exactly where this land "beyond the Sea of Dragons" is or what it is named.

Regarding the formation of the Empire, the 2nd Ed BR material mentions that Roele formed them from many groups or "tribes" of the Andu. When the formation was finished, there were 12 Duchies of the Empire. I have also endlessly searched the material for how many "groups" or "tribes" of the Andu there originally were and what their names were. I found nothing; only that 12 Duchies were formed from 12 "tribes" or "houses" of the Andu. So, according to the 2nd Ed Birthright material, there were at least 12 "tribes" or "houses" of the Andu. There could quite possibly be more than 12 original groups/"tribes"/"houses" of the Andu.

As for the 12 "tribes" or "houses" of the Andu, the 2nd Ed BR material mentions exactly what Angelbialaska said:


Original post by Angelbialaska

…the boxed sets mentions 12 duchies too. These are:

Aerenwe
Alamie
Avanil
Boeruine
Cariele (Ruling family relocated to Coeranys)
Diemed
Elinie
Mhoried
Osoerde
Taeghas (Ruling family in Brosengae?)
Talinie
And one more Duchy which was located in what is now Ghoere.


The history for Ghoere was probably developed in light of the fact that original BR material is hard to find. So, there was an obvious lack of suitable reference material for which the history of Ghoere could be developed. And to give more understanding to those who developed Ghoere's history, the 2nd Ed Birthright material never mentions which Duchy it was that became part of Ghoere. So, writers at places like Bloodsilver.com did a very good job with what they had to go with. If you elect to go with what the original 2nd Ed BR material says about Ghoere, then the decision becomes: which country was one of the 12 Duchies? Ghieste or Bhalaene? Or, was it something else all together that was renamed into either Ghieste or Bhalaene before they were enveloped into Ghoere? However, if you elect to go closer to what Bloodsilver.com has written, then the list above of the 12 Duchies from the 2nd Ed BR material must be augmented.

Back to the Andu/tribe confusion for a second: The 2nd Ed BR material liked to use the words "tribe" and "tribes" interchangeably when referring to the 6 original "tribes" and the "tribes" of the Andu. Thus, it is quite easy to see why so many people have confused the two topics. It took me a little note scribbling to get them straight...:)

What the 2nd Ed BR material is definitely clear on is that there were 6 tribes of people that settled Cerilia after the Flight from Shadow. Again, the Andu, the Basarji, the Brecht, the Masetians, the Reynir, and the Vosgaard.

I hope I've been able to add a little light to this confusion.... Or, am I beating a dead horse? I haven't found anywhere in the forums where a final decision on the matter has been made. If there has been a final decision already, then please let me know. Also, if there has, I would like to know what the decision was.

Take it easy,
Lae'Andril Rayn

Satchkep45
04-12-2006, 04:52 AM
I agree with LaeAndril Rayn and Thorogood Roele here. The "Five Tribes" were those that stood together against Azrai (Six migrated, but the Vos fought against the Five); the Houses of the Andu were a separate matter, the only details I can find are comments on the Deretha, the Mhora, the Elin (Dragon Mag); I've heard mention of the Aeren and the Boru... but that might be stuff we've invented here, not canon. It certainly seems like if these were the pre-existing political structures, it would have been easier for Roele to unite them rather than reinvent the wheel. It seems to me that he was involved in the last stage of turning a clan-based semi-nomadic people into a nation-state based agricultural people.

As for Roesone and Diemed making a powerful nation if combined, this is true; however, it doesn't mean that Ghoere wasn't made of two duchies (there is more than one way to make a powerful state). Roesone cobbled together provinces from two old duchies (Aerenwe and Diemed) and has certainly developed these provinces beyond what old Diemed did. I feel that Diemed was probably one of the mightiest of the old duchies, comparable to Avanil and old Alamie.

vota dc
04-12-2006, 08:04 PM
I think so.

Thorogood Roele
04-14-2006, 12:57 AM
I have all of the original BR material except for an elusive supposed mini adventure called "Varsks" something or other and the 1 issue of a comic book that they did. I have all the settings, domain books adventures dungeon and dragon mags free downloads from tsr and novels otherwise.

Having said that, I have to change my previous statement slightly and say that the original material conflicts on the house of Andu tribes. The book of regency actually states that there were only 5 tribes of Andu. But Dragon magazine (article on Tarazin the Grey) states that Elin was the 6th house and one of the novels also says that the duchies were given to warlords of the tribes of andu that sided with Roele. The novel, though also says that Bhaelene and Ghieste were duchies at the time of Michael, so who knows. lol I guess just go with what you like is the answer. I rather like Raesene's chart on the original duchies and families, but I also like the idea that the other regions of anuire (ie coerany's etc) that were not duchies as listed in that chart being lesser houses that may verywell have not been populated enough to warrant a "duchy" status but were still awarded monarchy nobility status by roele, perhaps such as barons, counts marquis or whatever.

Thomas_Percy
04-16-2006, 08:12 AM
Below is the history that I have written up for Brosengae and Taeghas.
I like Your story very much, I'll use it in my future games. Thanks.

Thomas_Percy
04-16-2006, 08:22 AM
Under no circumstances does it seem plausible to me that there were exactly 12 political entities that migrated to Cerilia during the Flight from Shadow, then the very same 12 entities fought the Shadow 500 years later, and then mysteriously the same 12 entities ended up with one realm each under Roele...
I agree with Your every single word.
The system allows me to remove a county (even 100.000 city!!!) from the map in one month (maximum 1 season). How to believe that nobody do it from 1500 years?

Another hard to explain thing: The Tribes fled from Aduria in the year of 500 BC because they are opressed by Azrai empire. The counterreaction of Azrai takes place in the 100 BC. What the hell Azrai is doing for 400 years?

LaeAndril Rayn
04-16-2006, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Raesene Andu

And for those who were wondering.

Anwe = Avanil
Gehaiste = Ghieste
Bheallach = Dhalaene
Boru = Boeruine
Duireina = Osoerde
Brosen = Taeghas
Mhora = Mhoried
Elin = Elinie
Elamie = Alamie
Carel = Cariele
Deretha = Diemed
Aeren = Aerenwe




Originally posted by Fearless_Leader
Actually, the Duriena became Taeghas according to those previous discussions... not Osoerde.

If the Duriena became the Taeghans, then who was it that became Osoerde? Also, then what happened to the Brosens? I thought that the Taeghans and the Brosens came from the same stock...

Also, 2nd Ed Birthright Material mentions a few times that Deretha/Diemed is the 5th House of the Andu. If they are the 5th, in what order are all the rest of the Houses? Is Anwe the 1st House?

Does the line of Roele belong to any of these Houses? Anwe? If so, is Haelyn, Raesene, and Roele the ancestors of Avanil?

Just wondering. I'm trying to put together a workable history for my campaign. Thanks for any input.

LaeAndril Rayn

JosephDouthitt
07-15-2006, 08:52 AM
I agree with Your every single word.
The system allows me to remove a county (even 100.000 city!!!) from the map in one month (maximum 1 season). How to believe that nobody do it from 1500 years?

Another hard to explain thing: The Tribes fled from Aduria in the year of 500 BC because they are opressed by Azrai empire. The counterreaction of Azrai takes place in the 100 BC. What the hell Azrai is doing for 400 years?

Yes, hearing what the Green Knight said touched a chord with me too!!! Too little changes and a few numbers taking on significance can help galvanize the fantasy element and actually seem special but the same number forcibly superimposed on everything...it's annoying AND I think too often defeats the point of what the Boxed Set tried to do. It's made VERY clear that titles and relative power and size of realms has changed so often since Michael Roele that there is no meaning or correlation between the two (titles and power)...and Duchies allegedly have 12 provinces "or so". But somehow UNDER the Emperor the Duke/Duchess of Brosengae still had only three provinces...

My current most hated silliness are two strange things in Iron Throne (which I finally read and actually liked quite a bit despite the inconsistencies)...that "Western Alamie" is ruled by its own duke at all, let alone a Flaertes, contradicts the whole idea of Tuornen's history to me. And "Rurik Donalls" ruling Talinie could not make less sense! Donalls is a high priestess of a non-hereditary theocracy which came to power after a three century interregnum...if the Donalls had been in power when that mess started I'm sure somebody would have wiped them out during that time but at least if a member of their family became head of the Church half a millennium later they would mention in RoE or PS: Talinie that her family had been the rightful rulers in ages past...

JosephDouthitt
07-15-2006, 08:54 AM
Also for Raesene and everyone's list with the authenticky looking names where did those come from?