Half-elf age

[Ashley Harbutt]

Hi everyone,

Sorry if this topic has already been covered, but has anyone any thoughts on
the development of half-elves in regard to age? Since elves are immortal, at
what age do half-elves die? One of my players prefers the Tolkien-style
half-elves, the all-or-nothing approach where the half-elf decides if he
will live as an elf or a human. Also, I'm sure the Ruins of Empire book says
somehwere that Aelies is over 400 years old, but is this due to his race or
magic? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Ash


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[Olesens]

Ashley Harbutt wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Sorry if this topic has already been covered, but has anyone any thoughts on
> the development of half-elves in regard to age? Since elves are immortal, at
> what age do half-elves die? One of my players prefers the Tolkien-style
> half-elves, the all-or-nothing approach where the half-elf decides if he
> will live as an elf or a human. Also, I'm sure the Ruins of Empire book says
> somehwere that Aelies is over 400 years old, but is this due to his race or
> magic? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Ash

I think that half elves ageing rate is variable. I've made up my own list of PO
abilities for half elves (a combo of human and elven powers) and I let the
player customize his race. I don't belive in customizing other races but IMO
half elves are very unique. So some live for a human lifespan while others have
like 500 years and others are immortal.

[Trizt]

Olesens wrote:

> > Sorry if this topic has already been covered, but has anyone any thoughts on
> > the development of half-elves in regard to age? Since elves are immortal, at
> > what age do half-elves die? One of my players prefers the Tolkien-style
> > half-elves, the all-or-nothing approach where the half-elf decides if he
> > will live as an elf or a human. Also, I'm sure the Ruins of Empire book says
> > somehwere that Aelies is over 400 years old, but is this due to his race or
> > magic? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

> I think that half elves ageing rate is variable.
> So some live for a human lifespan while others have
> like 500 years and others are immortal.

That works when you use PO, but in a"pure" 2nd Ed, the DM could make a dice roll
to see how long life spann the half elf will have

here is a fast made suggestion:

1d6

1 - like human
2 - like human +50 years
3 - like half-elf
4 - like half-elf +50 years
5 - like half-elf +100 years
6 - like elf -100 years

But I have use that the half-elves lifespann is as in the 2nd ed + 200 years.

//Trizt

[Brett Lang]

Half Elf Age was covered in Dragon #247 "Heroes of Cerilia" for those of you
interested. It actually allowed three options if i remember correctly
1st was normal half-elf age
2nd was about 350 yrs moer or so... and the ...
3rd was immortality of their elven parent...

Hope this helped...
Warlock.

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/15/99 1:55:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
c558382@earthlink.net writes:

> Combining mortal and immortal hardly calls for a split down the middle.
> Certainly a more thoughtful approach is required than a simple mean.
>

Uh, why? This is a fantasy game, right? You can explain it any way you
want. That was the point of my post.

- -DKE

[Sidhain]

>>
>No need for sideways insults here. Disagree with my logic all you want, I
>don't care. If you'd like to insult me or my reasoning ability, do it off
>the list.
>
>I sincerely doubt that players would find it "unbelievable", and find me
>"intellectually lazy" because I declare half-elves have the same life span
as
>their elven parentage


Indeed I agree, I didn't find Tolkien less enjoyable because Peredhil could
choose whether they wanted the eternity of elves or the brief life of Man.
Aging isn't really an issue in most my games, only in the few where I start
my players as children does it matter. And as long as one is consistent it
doesn't matter if one chooses to use flimsy science logic, or serious theme
logic or the like.
I mean most players understand that its Fantasy and fantastic things like
magic, dragons, and immortals exist, its not that hard a logic.
If one wants to be serious minded one could decide of the aging genes of
elves are dominant or recessive, I consider it dominant, since every known
elf is immortal. Therefore it would most likely be a trait inherited and
expressed in offspring. Since magic is capable of extending some humans
lives (such as Potions of Longevity and blooded status) either one probably
reveals that humans have a recessive trait for immortality which can only be
expressed under certain conditions. Such as potions, blooded abilities, and
a number of other various abilities.Since elves can not be aged by any
Magic's in Birthright it is likely that they do not have a recessive "aging"
trait...
Therefore eternal lifespan is likely to express itself in all Halfelves.

[Kenneth Gauck]

Because you're asking you players to find the world enjoyable. If you're
the only one playing the game, the moon can be made of fruit salad, but if
you want other players to sit down week after week you need to satisfy the
audience. In my experience players don't appreciate the intellectually
lazy.

Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net

- -----Original Message-----
From: DKEvermore@aol.com
Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 9:50 AM


>In a message dated 5/15/99 1:55:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
>c558382@earthlink.net writes:
>
>> Combining mortal and immortal hardly calls for a split down the middle.
>> Certainly a more thoughtful approach is required than a simple mean.
>>
>
>Uh, why? This is a fantasy game, right? You can explain it any way you
>want. That was the point of my post.
>
>-DKE
>************************************************** *************************
>>'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
>

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/17/99 11:36:20 AM Central Daylight Time,
c558382@earthlink.net writes:

> Because you're asking you players to find the world enjoyable. If you're
> the only one playing the game, the moon can be made of fruit salad, but if
> you want other players to sit down week after week you need to satisfy the
> audience. In my experience players don't appreciate the intellectually
> lazy.
>
> Kenneth Gauck
> c558382@earthlink.net
>
No need for sideways insults here. Disagree with my logic all you want, I
don't care. If you'd like to insult me or my reasoning ability, do it off
the list.

I sincerely doubt that players would find it "unbelievable", and find me
"intellectually lazy" because I declare half-elves have the same life span as
their elven parentage.

Well, this thread quickly went downhill. I hope someone else has something
constructive to add soon.
- -Dustin Evermore

[Kenneth Gauck]

Declaring their lifespan infinite because the "elven componant is superior"
is not what you said. I am arguing with the poor math that claimed it was
an average of both parents. That argument is essentially the same as
arguing any number of instantaneous actions are allowable in one round.

The argument you originally claimed and the one under which you now cloak
yourself are two distinct arguments. I trust the list is not fooled.

Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net

- -----Original Message-----
From: DKEvermore@aol.com
Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:44 PM


>No need for sideways insults here. Disagree with my logic all you want, I
>don't care. If you'd like to insult me or my reasoning ability, do it off
>the list.
>
>I sincerely doubt that players would find it "unbelievable", and find me
>"intellectually lazy" because I declare half-elves have the same life span
as
>their elven parentage.
>
>Well, this thread quickly went downhill. I hope someone else has something
>constructive to add soon.
>-Dustin Evermore

[geeman]

Kenneth Gauck wrote:

> Declaring their lifespan infinite because the "elven componant is superior"
> is not what you said. I am arguing with the poor math that claimed it was
> an average of both parents. That argument is essentially the same as
> arguing any number of instantaneous actions are allowable in one round.
>
> The argument you originally claimed and the one under which you now cloak
> yourself are two distinct arguments. I trust the list is not fooled.

I wasn't fooled. It seemed pretty obviously to be a tongue-in-cheek argument to
me....

Gary

[Kenneth Gauck]

- -----Original Message-----
From: GeeMan
Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 7:51 PM
>
>I wasn't fooled. It seemed pretty obviously to be a tongue-in-cheek
argument to
>me....
>
>Gary

Then I am a victim of haveing been unable to have identified the humor, no
doubt owing to my earnest reading of the original message.

Kenneth Gauck
c558382@earthlink.net

[JNeighb934@aol.co]

I think it would make sense that the lifespan of a half-elf would depend
mostly on whether the half-elf chooses to live as an elf or as a man. This
is based on the Tolkien idea of the half-elf being given a choice, but it is
his choice of lifestyle that is the determining factor on lifespan. A
half-elf who lives among elves deep in an elven land may practically live
forever (I don't think they should be completely immortal, however), but one
who lives in a human city with a human mindset and is mainly concerned with
human issues could have a lifespan approximately equal to that given for
half-elves in the PHB, which would be the low end of the scale for Birthright
half-elves. I would find it pretty disturbing if a character like Guilder
Kalien could live forever, not to mention the negative effect on game
balance. Elven immortality is balanced out by their respect for life and
individual freedom of choice. An immortal evil half-elf who thinks like a
human would certainly make a ruthless try for the Iron Throne, and would
probably eventually succeed. Time would be on his side. Too unbalancing, I
say.

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/17/99 7:15:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
c558382@earthlink.net writes:

> Declaring their lifespan infinite because the "elven componant is superior"
> is not what you said. I am arguing with the poor math that claimed it was
> an average of both parents. That argument is essentially the same as
> arguing any number of instantaneous actions are allowable in one round.
>
> The argument you originally claimed and the one under which you now cloak
> yourself are two distinct arguments. I trust the list is not fooled.
>
> Kenneth Gauck
> c558382@earthlink.net
>

Thankfully you are not the list's spokesman.

Hey, Ken, knock knock!! Anybody home? Re-read my message again and you'll
see it was meant tongue-in-cheeck with little laughing smileys.

Here, I'll post it again and explain it to you since you're a little too
obtuse to understand it on your own:

> You could try it mathematically.
This is funny because we're talking genetics, not math. ha-ha.

> Lessee... Elves life forever, [unmolested, that is :)]. We'll give them
infinity for a > potential life span.

I inserted small joke there.

> Now you mate this elf with a human... giving the human a maximum potential
life
> span of say... 120 years.

> Now you have i=infinity.

> (i + 120) / 2 = max potential life span of offspring.

> Half of infinity plus something is still infinity. So, you might rule half
elves
> potentially live forever. But this is waaaaay too logical for fantasy. ;-D

And there is me way at the end laughing because I thought I made a joke.

I apologize to this list for not being funny.

However, it was at this point you decided to take a lightly-meant, easy
explanation very seriously. The point you miss is that this is FANTASY.
You've got rennaisance cultures and no gunpowder. You've got all kinds of
bad logic. It does not make it less fun or less believable. Is the AD&D
explanation of magic "intelluctually lazy"? Of course it is. Are the
explanations of magically-created mystical creatures "intellectually lazy",
sure as heck it is.

Although I meant it in fun, using bad math is no less valid than saying the
stars of Cerilia took their place in the sky when the new gods arose after
Deismaar.

Ken, I think you were in a poor mood and just decided to pick an argument.
I've seen you do this many times before since you began subscribing to this
list, what --a year and half ago?

- -DKE

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/18/99 5:16:30 AM Central Daylight Time,
JNeighb934@aol.com writes:

> Elven immortality is balanced out by their respect for life and
> individual freedom of choice. An immortal evil half-elf who thinks like a
> human would certainly make a ruthless try for the Iron Throne, and would
> probably eventually succeed. Time would be on his side. Too unbalancing,
I
>
> say.

You could be right. But on the otherhand, elves are generally feared by
humans. You could choose to extend that to half-elves, too. Might not be
enough to stop them from tyrannical ruling and a ruthless move on the Iron
Throne. In the end, though he'd still have to have the right bloodline.
- -Dustin Evermore

[Trizt]

DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:

> > Elven immortality is balanced out by their respect for life and
> > individual freedom of choice. An immortal evil half-elf who thinks like a
> > human would certainly make a ruthless try for the Iron Throne, and would
> > probably eventually succeed. Time would be on his side. Too unbalancing,

> You could be right. But on the otherhand, elves are generally feared by
> humans. You could choose to extend that to half-elves, too. Might not be
> enough to stop them from tyrannical ruling and a ruthless move on the Iron
> Throne. In the end, though he'd still have to have the right bloodline.

Didn't it say in the setting box that half-elves wheren't well accepted amongst
humans?

But anyhow, immortality don't say that there will not happen a bad acident for
an evil holder of the Iron Throne.


//Trizt

[RocksHope@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/18/99, 9:56:28 AM, birthright@mpgn.com writes:

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/18/99 11:55:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
RocksHope@aol.com writes:

> As an aside, if elves are immortal, do they age? Or do they just not die?
> What would a 100,000 year old elf be like? Old?
>
In my campaign, I have elves slow and eventually stop aging. Their very
eldest (such as the Alvenking of Cwmb Bheinn who has be alive since before
Deismaar) manage to gain only the look of middle-age (30-50), depending on
the sorrow in their life. I do allow for an elf to look "temporarily" old
when displaying grief for very great periods of time (decades).

One player wanted to look incredibly "wizened" and old and still be an elf.
We put together a story describing how he was terribly burned in a fire and
it healed naturally (elves don't have priests in my Cerilia). The "wizened"
look, therefore was gained because of scar tissue.

- -Dustin Evermore

[geeman]

DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:

> > As an aside, if elves are immortal, do they age? Or do they just not die?
> > What would a 100,000 year old elf be like? Old?
> >
> In my campaign, I have elves slow and eventually stop aging. Their very
> eldest (such as the Alvenking of Cwmb Bheinn who has be alive since before
> Deismaar) manage to gain only the look of middle-age (30-50), depending on
> the sorrow in their life. I do allow for an elf to look "temporarily" old
> when displaying grief for very great periods of time (decades).

This actually makes gobs of sense to me. I'm going to do the same in my
campaign regaring the age of elves. Elven "immortality" will be physically
manifested by the range of 30-50 in human years. Perfect.

Gary