A few ramblings on Magic

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

I have reciently been thinking on the eact effects of some realm
spells in Birthright. The first I thought about was Warding. So I decided to
put my rather strange mind to work and come up with what I think is are some
good rules that are the effect of warding... What happens when the mists go
up, and the land is sealed!

1) Riots! A warding spell, if the realm's army isn't there, riots begin in
larger provinces. The population panics and theybegin to get ruff.

2)Bandits. Definatly bandits emirge in force. I would say at least a units
worth, maybe the lvl of the province worth...

3) Militia. Well, mists arrise and bandits are most likely going to emirge,
so raise an army! When wardings go up, the ruler can raise an army... no
cost! This represents that the soldiers/farmers/artisans want to protect
their homes from bandits. As soon as the warding is down, the units disband.
I figure maybe 1 infantry, 1 archers and all the rest levies.

That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
extended longer...

[geeman]

JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:

> That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
> what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
> wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
> extended longer...

Hmmm. Interesting.... Let's see what I can spitball here.

1. It seems like it would be pretty difficult to collect taxes from a warded
province.

2. Being warded might upset the population--loss of loyalty?

3. A regent shouldn't be able to muster troops in a warded province. Such
recruitment would require going around to the people and collecting volunteers.
Kinda hard if there is mist everywhere that blocks movement.

4. No battles? Despite the last few scenes of the film Excalibur, I'm under the
impression that if the whole provinces was shrouded in mist it might be very easy
for an army (in BR armies often aren't more than 10,000 men) to miss each other
entirely in a province. Even if they didn't how would commanders order them
about. Vision on the battlefield is HUGELY important for both the combatants and
the commanders.

5. Cuts all trade routes to, from or through that provinces. (This one ought to
be a gimme.)

That's the stuff off the top of my head. What do you guys think?

Gary

[JNeighb934@aol.co]

In a message dated 05/04/99 0:17:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

> No battles? Despite the last few scenes of the film Excalibur, I'm under
> the
> impression that if the whole provinces was shrouded in mist it might be
very
> easy
> for an army (in BR armies often aren't more than 10,000 men) to miss each
> other
> entirely in a province. Even if they didn't how would commanders order
them
> about. Vision on the battlefield is HUGELY important for both the
> combatants and
> the commanders.

I was under the impression that only the borders of the province are actually
enshrouded in mist.

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Tue, 4 May 1999, GeeMan wrote:

> JulesMrshn@aol.com wrote:
>
> > That is all I have right now. So I would like some other's perspectives on
> > what happens when the warding goes up. Remember, noone who is not in the
> > wizard magic field knows when the mist is going down, and even then it can be
> > extended longer...
>
> Hmmm. Interesting.... Let's see what I can spitball here.
>
> 1. It seems like it would be pretty difficult to collect taxes from a warded
> province.
>
> 2. Being warded might upset the population--loss of loyalty?
>
> 3. A regent shouldn't be able to muster troops in a warded province. Such
> recruitment would require going around to the people and collecting volunteers.
> Kinda hard if there is mist everywhere that blocks movement.

I've always thought that one of the cheif advantages of a feudal system in
Cerilia is to be prepared for just this sort of thing. If a province is
warded by a hostile wizard, at least there is a clearly-demarkated
surrogate-ruler in the province, able to take over temporarily (until the
ward goes down). Now, this person wouldn't be a regent, but WOULD be an
authority figure (perhaps a de-facto lieutennant for the duration?). As
such, he might be able to do such things as collect taxes, muster armies
and agitate in the province/provinces, although he wouldn't be able to
spend RP unless the warded area happened to include a priest who can cast
the Investiture spell (and a source of RP for the spell, I suppose). This
might even make an interesting adventure for non-regent PC's. Of course,
the de-facto lieutennant may decided that she LIKES ruling, and if the
people were happy with her success, the landed regent might end up with a
Great Captain event when the ward went down.

> 5. Cuts all trade routes to, from or through that provinces. (This one ought to
> be a gimme.)

I agree on this.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[geeman]

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

> I've always thought that one of the cheif advantages of a feudal system in
> Cerilia is to be prepared for just this sort of thing. If a province is
> warded by a hostile wizard, at least there is a clearly-demarkated
> surrogate-ruler in the province, able to take over temporarily (until the
> ward goes down). Now, this person wouldn't be a regent, but WOULD be an
> authority figure (perhaps a de-facto lieutennant for the duration?). As
> such, he might be able to do such things as collect taxes, muster armies
> and agitate in the province/provinces, although he wouldn't be able to
> spend RP unless the warded area happened to include a priest who can cast
> the Investiture spell (and a source of RP for the spell, I suppose). This
> might even make an interesting adventure for non-regent PC's. Of course,
> the de-facto lieutennant may decided that she LIKES ruling, and if the
> people were happy with her success, the landed regent might end up with a
> Great Captain event when the ward went down.

Hmm. Interesting. This does kind of require a lot of independant action on the part
of an NPC who the player-regent has had very little actual interaction with. I don't
like to give my players that much leeway, personally, but I like your points. In
general, I think there should be some sort of restriction on the amount of troops that
a regent can raise in a warded province, because: A) he can't get his orders through
as easily demanding conscription, B) It's harder to get a cartload of money into the
province to pay for this conscription, C) Same with equipment, armor, weapons, food
and the sundries that troops require. Existing stores could certainly account for
some of this, but being warded should have some effect on this sort of thing.

How about this: A province can normally raise units of troops equal to its province
level, right? What if a warded one can only raise units equal to half its province
level, rounded down? That sounds like a decent compromise....

Gary

[geeman]

JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

> I was under the impression that only the borders of the province are actually
> enshrouded in mist.

Huh. For some reason I always assumed the whole place was shrouded in mists....

Gary

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Tue, 4 May 1999, GeeMan wrote:

> Hmm. Interesting. This does kind of require a lot of independant
action on the part
> of an NPC who the player-regent has had very little actual interaction
with. I don't
> like to give my players that much leeway, personally, but I like your
points. In
> general, I think there should be some sort of restriction on the amount
of troops that
> a regent can raise in a warded province, because: A) he can't get his
orders through
> as easily demanding conscription, B) It's harder to get a cartload of
money into the
> province to pay for this conscription, C) Same with equipment, armor,
weapons, food
> and the sundries that troops require. Existing stores could certainly
account for
> some of this, but being warded should have some effect on this sort of
thing.

Well, there's nothing to say that the NPC is necessarily completely loyal,
or that his philosophy of rulership is the same as the regent. For
example, he may decide that the best decision is to raise lots of levies,
thus reducing the province level. Or he may decide to take advantage of
the situation to "pay back" a rival--perhaps reducing a temple or guild
holding to zero with the troops. But I think it would be a significant
advantage. I disagree that he would have a hard time demanding
conscription--in a feudal system, each lord is the final authority for
those in his fief, except inasmuch as his authority is limited by any sort
of charter, issued decrees, or direct commands by his liege. I would think
that Anuireans are well aware of the dangers of the Warding spell, and
that the highest-ranking noble in the warded provinces are EXPECTED to
take over and represent the regent when such disasters strike. But I agree
that resource limitations may be a problem.

>
> How about this: A province can normally raise units of troops equal to
its province
> level, right? What if a warded one can only raise units equal to half
its province
> level, rounded down? That sounds like a decent compromise....

Sounds pretty good to me.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Joao Clark Medeiros]

Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.

Bearcat

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[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Wed, 5 May 1999, Joao Clark Medeiros wrote:

> Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
> serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
> casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
> foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
> then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.

An interesting observation. Generally, military theory says that you
should fight a battle only when you have a decisive advantage of numbers.
However, the Ward Spell might give reason for Cerilian generals to rethink
this doctrine. You DON'T want all of your units in one place, when there's
a possibility that they could become magically trapped. It might be best
in Cerilia to send in enough troops to effectively deal with the enemy,
but no more than necessary.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Pieter Sleijpen]

Joao Clark Medeiros wrote:
>
> Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
> serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
> casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
> foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
> then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.
>

This does sound like a sound tactic, but puting into work is rather
difficult. The casting of the spell takes a full month, meaning that you
have to get the enemy within the province at the end of 4 full war
moves, that is a minimum of 4 provinces. It will take a lot of planning
and luck to do that. Unless, you know the enemy wants to conquer the
place... You also want to do it in enemy territory. When armies don't
get their salary (and that will be impossible with a ward in effect),
they do tend to get out of control. Pillaging the province will be a
very likely result.

Still, the threat would certainly prevent general making one large army,
unless they have a powerful mage at their side (transport, teleport) of
maybe a priest with 'find the path' spell...

Hmmm....

This discussion makes me wonder if you could disturb the casting of
realm spells by tracking down the wizard and attacking him? That would
certainly be a very nice adventure hook: "Find the enemy wizard, before
he can ward our border province with the castle in it."

Pieter Sleijpen

[JulesMrshn@aol.co]

In a message dated 5/5/99 5:37:18 PM Central Daylight Time, madfox@wxs.nl
writes:

>

Why woudl the casting tie take a full month? I have always figured the
casting time is the time of a small ceirmony. Just that he can only do one
every three months because of the sheer energy of it.

[Cobos]

Joao Clark Medeiros wrote:

> Another obvious use for warding is to trap armies. Imagine a ploy in which a unit
> serves as a decoy and lures a country's army into a province and then a wizard
> casts warding around that province. BANG. You have an entire country exposed to
> foreign invasion. By the time the army is actually able to do something about it
> then their homeland will be gone and they will have no means of support.
>
> Bearcat
>
> __________________________________________________ ____
> Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com
> Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting
> cards for any occassion at http://greetings.xoom.com
>
> ************************************************** *************************
> > I've always thought the idea of trapping a regent of a large domain would mean that
the rest of his domain sort of brakes up into it's component parts as per the feudal
system, which means the invading army more or less faces several single (or dual)
province "domains" instead of the large and unified one. So when the warding goes
down the rest of the domain is taken over ?

Sindre

[Trizt]

GeeMan wrote:

> general, I think there should be some sort of restriction on the amount of troops that
> a regent can raise in a warded province, because: A) he can't get his orders through
> as easily demanding conscription, B) It's harder to get a cartload of money into the
> province to pay for this conscription, C) Same with equipment, armor, weapons, food
> and the sundries that troops require. Existing stores could certainly account for
> some of this, but being warded should have some effect on this sort of thing.
>
> How about this: A province can normally raise units of troops equal to its province
> level, right? What if a warded one can only raise units equal to half its province
> level, rounded down? That sounds like a decent compromise....

I think even the type of troops which can be raised in the warded province is
limited, as new mercs will hardly appear in the province. So my suggestion is
that provinces of level 6 or higher can raise one unit which isn't a milita
unit.

//Trizt

[Memnoch]

Actually, Madfox, in this case is correct. The "casting time" of realm
spells takes the entire month (1 domain action). The vast majority of time
is spent in meditation, the rest in spell component gathering. The actual
time that it takes to summon the spell energy (the actual spell casting) is
about 8 hours.

There is no limit to the number of realm spells that can be cast in a Domain
Turn, other than the restriction on 1 domain action per action round, and
only 3 action rounds per domain turn. However, with a Lieutenant action, 4
such spells could be launched within 1 domain turn.

Memnoch
- -----Original Message-----
From: JulesMrshn@aol.com
To: birthright@mpgn.com
Date: Thursday, May 06, 1999 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - A few ramblings on Magic


|In a message dated 5/5/99 5:37:18 PM Central Daylight Time, madfox@wxs.nl
|writes:
|
|>
|
|Why woudl the casting tie take a full month? I have always figured the
|casting time is the time of a small ceirmony. Just that he can only do one
|every three months because of the sheer energy of it.
|************************************************* **************************
||'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.
|

[Ben]

I like to add other factors than just spell components and meditation,
particularly when casting really high-level spells. For instance, I might
say that the spell requires the casting to take place in a building made for
the purpose, or that casting the spell requires the channeling of so much
power through the caster that he/she must take precautions to keep from
dying--or bursting into flame. I make big time realm spells require big time
preparation---it helps explain why spells cost so much money.


Ben A.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Memnoch
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [BIRTHRIGHT] - A few ramblings on Magic


> Actually, Madfox, in this case is correct. The "casting time" of realm
> spells takes the entire month (1 domain action). The vast majority of
time
> is spent in meditation, the rest in spell component gathering. The actual
> time that it takes to summon the spell energy (the actual spell casting)
is
> about 8 hours.
>
> There is no limit to the number of realm spells that can be cast in a
Domain
> Turn, other than the restriction on 1 domain action per action round, and
> only 3 action rounds per domain turn. However, with a Lieutenant action,
4
> such spells could be launched within 1 domain turn.
>
> Memnoch