Anuirean Monsters...

[Tommy Ashton]

At 04:50 PM 4/28/99 +0200, you wrote:
>Andreas Kjeldsen wrote:
>>
>> > Forest
>> > ......
>> > Gnome, forest
>>
>> > Hills
>> > .........
>> > Gnome, rock
>>
>> Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
>> PC race in Birthright?
>>
>
Gnomes tend to not be real BRish. Too technology oriented. In my
Rohrmarch campaign I had a small, very small group of gnomes hiding in Edel
and Boerenbach. These were counted by a few kobolds in Werthangen. Off
the topic, the count of Werthangen was an evil Rjuvikian mercenary whose
family was given that position long ago by a mad king and looked the other
way towards the kobolds. THe Count of Edel was a Brecht, in fact the
descendent of the second lt of Bram Rohr, founder of Rohrmarch, who hid the
gnomes. In my campaign the gnomes need for secrety kept their building in
check. A civil war in a civil war you might say.

T

[the Falcon]

Hello again, my fellow listers...

I have assembled a list of all Anuirean monsters, arranged by terrain
type. I've reproduced it here for you gaming pleasure...


ANUIREAN MONSTER
* Indicates a monster with ties to the Shadow World

Any
Annis
* Banshee
Bat (common, large)
Bear (black, brown)
Beetle (bombardier, boring, fire)
Behir
Bird (eagle, falcon, hawk, owl, raven, crow, swan)
Centipede (giant, huge, megalo-)
Cockatrice
Dog (wild, war)
Doppleganger
Goblin, Cerilian
* Ghast
* Ghoul
* Gloomwing
Gnoll
Harpy
* Hell Hound
Hippogriff
Insect
* Lich
Lion, mountain
Mammal
* Mudman
* Nightmare
Nymph
Plant (snappersaw, thornslinger)
* Skeleton
* Skeleton, monster
Snake (amphisbaena, poisonous)
Spider (hairy, large, huge, huge, giant, gargantuan)
* Spider, phase
Troll
Wolf
Worm (bookworm, rot grub)
* Zombie

Forest
Ankheg
Atomie
Beetle, stag
Centaur
Fhoimorien
Giant, forest
Grig
Dryad
Ettercap
Gnome, forest
Hag, green
Kobold
Owlbear
Pegasus
Pixie
Plant (choke creeper, yellow musk creeper, hangman tree, quickwood, giant sundew)
Sprite
Stirge
* Tenebrous Worm
Trapper, forest
Treant
Unicorn
Wolf, dire
Worg
Wyvern

Hills
Aurumvorax
Ettin
Giant, hill
Gnome, rock
Griffon
Urd

Marsh/Swamp
Catoblepas
Hag, green
Leech (giant, throat, swarm)
Pudding, brown
Slug, giant

Mountains
Displacer Beast
Ettin
Galeb Duhr
Giant, hill
Giant, mountain
Giant, stone
Griffon
Ogre
Orog, Cerilian
Leucrotta
* Peryton
Urd
Wyvern

Plains/Farmland
Ankheg
Brownie
* Dog, blink
Hag, green

Ruins
* Gargoyle
Leucrotta
* Shadow
* Spectre
* Wight
* Wraith

Subterranean
Carrion Crawler
Cloaker
* Gargoyle
Jermlaine
Kobold
Leucrotta
Lizard, subterranean
Lurker
* Margoyle
Mold (brown, russet, yellow)
Ooze/Slime/Jelly
Orog
Otyugh
Plant (yellow musk creeper, shambling mound)
Pudding, black
Roper
* Shadow
Slug, giant
Stirge
Svirfneblin
Toad (giant, fire, poisonous)
Trapper
Tunnel Worm
Worm, purple

Water, any
Fish

Water, coast
Crab, giant
Hag, sea
* Kapoacinth
Sea Lion

Water, fresh
Beetle, water
Crayfish, giant
Frog (giant, killer, poisonous)
Nixie

Water, salt
Dolphin
Kelpie
Merman
Octopus, giant
Sahuagin
Sirine
Squid, giant
Whale (common, orca)


Till we meet again...

- the Falcon

[Stephen White]

100000@dutiwy.twi.tudelft.nl>, the Falcon
writes
>Hello again, my fellow listers...

Creepy! I was just reading my e-mail before flicking to that very
section in the rulebook for potential PC races, which was open on my
copy stand.

Perfect timing, Falcon. Thank you.


As an aside, anyone know why there is "Baphomet, the lord of the
minotaurs" (Rulebook page 80) when Cerilia does not seem to have any
minotaurs?


Stephen.

[Alexander MacLeod]

>Subterranean
> Carrion Crawler
> Cloaker
>* Gargoyle

I would have to say, after reading the description of cloakers
for the upcoming Slave Lords campaign I'll be running, that they have
a much greater connection to the shadow world than do gargoyles (which
I don't see as having much of any, anyway).

Alexander "the Rjurik Necromancer"


__________________________________________________ _____________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

[Andreas Kjeldsen]

> Forest
> ......
> Gnome, forest

> Hills
> .........
> Gnome, rock

Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
PC race in Birthright?

Andreas

Andreas Kjeldsen
morkitar@dadlnet.dk
ICQ# 12703652

[DKEvermore@aol.co]

In a message dated 4/28/99 8:44:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
morkitar@dadlnet.dk writes:

> Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
> PC race in Birthright?
>
Because the designers didn't like gnomes, and rightfully so. ;)

I also feel that gnomes do not fit the Birthright feel. Tinkerers and
illusionists, gnomes could potentially upset the careful balance between
races, cultures and kingdoms in terms of technology and invention.

Dustin "Gnome-Killer" Evermore

[Pieter Sleijpen]

Andreas Kjeldsen wrote:
>
> > Forest
> > ......
> > Gnome, forest
>
> > Hills
> > .........
> > Gnome, rock
>
> Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
> PC race in Birthright?
>

Because there are no gnomes in my BR world. The only gnomes I have are a
forrest gnomes in elven woods. Those strange people in the Rainserpent
Mountains on the border between Djafra and Khourane are also forrest
gnomes. Masters of illusions as they are, it would not be difficult to
create the strange stories.

Maybe, if I will start an elf-campaign, I will allow gnomes. But as for
now I don't. I also have forbidden dwarves (they tend to sink as a brick
and I run a sea-campaign) and my players have no problems with that.

Pieter Sleijpen

[Pieter Sleijpen]

DKEvermore@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/28/99 8:44:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
> morkitar@dadlnet.dk writes:
>
> > Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
> > PC race in Birthright?
> >
> Because the designers didn't like gnomes, and rightfully so. ;)
>
> I also feel that gnomes do not fit the Birthright feel. Tinkerers and
> illusionists, gnomes could potentially upset the careful balance between
> races, cultures and kingdoms in terms of technology and invention.
>

Why is it that everyone sees gnomes as technological manipulators? Only
the Dragonlance gnomes are like that. As for the illusions being
unbalancing? Why? Humans can become magician's, so why not gnomes?

As for their place in BR, I agree with that. IMO The forest gnomes do
fit in though, they hide from the normal world and fit perfectly in
those "faerie"-stuff of the elven woods.

Pieter Sleijpen

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

If anyone's interested, here's my own take on monsters that have ties to
the Shadow World. In part, this is due to my belief that many types of
monsters are formed when 'spirits' from the Shadow World escape and being
too weak to directly create their own form, they instead inhabit another
form, often changing it in the process. For example, this is how the
lesser undead are formed: Shadow Spirits inhabit corpses, animating them.
However, the same thing can happen with plants and trees (creating the
various forms of monstrous plants), or with statues (gargoyles), etc. In
addition, in my version of Cerilia, Hags are what happens when a Cerilian
Witch looses the battle with his Shadow Spirit and is expelled from
his own body (see the Netbook for my version of Cerilian witches--and
yes, I have both male and female hags). I also noticed that you didn't
include the various types of fungus creatures (or I overlooked them).
These are also Shadow Spirit creatures in my book, and typically inhabit
forested regions (esp. the Shadow World aspect of a forested region--I
don't have them occur in the material plane very often).

(There are also some listed that I'm not really familiar with, and don't
have my MM handy, so I can't judge some of these.)

On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, the Falcon wrote:

> ANUIREAN MONSTER
> * Indicates a monster with ties to the Shadow World

## indicates a monster Mark sees as having ties to the SW, but Falcon
doesn't.

> Any
> Annis
> * Banshee
> Bat (common, large)
> Bear (black, brown)
> Beetle (bombardier, boring, fire)
> Behir
> Bird (eagle, falcon, hawk, owl, raven, crow, swan)
> Centipede (giant, huge, megalo-)
> Cockatrice
> Dog (wild, war)
> ## Doppleganger
> Goblin, Cerilian
> * Ghast
> * Ghoul
> * Gloomwing
> Gnoll
> Harpy
> * Hell Hound
> Hippogriff
> Insect
> * Lich
> Lion, mountain
> Mammal
> * Mudman
> * Nightmare
> Nymph
> ## Plant (snappersaw, thornslinger)
> * Skeleton
> * Skeleton, monster
> Snake (amphisbaena, poisonous)
> Spider (hairy, large, huge, huge, giant, gargantuan)
> * Spider, phase
> Troll
> Wolf
> Worm (bookworm, rot grub)
> * Zombie
>
> Forest
> Ankheg
> Atomie
> Beetle, stag
> Centaur
> Fhoimorien
> Giant, forest
> Grig
> Dryad
> Ettercap
> Gnome, forest
> ## Hag, green
> Kobold
> Owlbear
> Pegasus
> Pixie
> ## Plant (choke creeper, yellow musk creeper, hangman tree, quickwood,
giant sundew)
> Sprite
> Stirge
> * Tenebrous Worm
> Trapper, forest
> Treant
> Unicorn
> Wolf, dire
> Worg
> Wyvern
>
> Hills
> Aurumvorax
> Ettin
> Giant, hill
> Gnome, rock
> Griffon
> Urd
>
> Marsh/Swamp
> Catoblepas
> ## Hag, green
> Leech (giant, throat, swarm)
> Pudding, brown
> Slug, giant
>
> Mountains
> Displacer Beast
> Ettin
> Galeb Duhr
> Giant, hill
> Giant, mountain
> Giant, stone
> Griffon
> Ogre
> Orog, Cerilian
> Leucrotta
> * Peryton
> Urd
> Wyvern
>
> Plains/Farmland
> Ankheg
> Brownie
> * Dog, blink
> ## Hag, green
>
> Ruins
> * Gargoyle
> Leucrotta
> * Shadow
> * Spectre
> * Wight
> * Wraith
>
> Subterranean
> Carrion Crawler
> ## Cloaker
> * Gargoyle
> ## Jermlaine
> Kobold
> Leucrotta
> Lizard, subterranean
> Lurker
> * Margoyle
> Mold (brown, russet, yellow)
> Ooze/Slime/Jelly
> Orog
> Otyugh
> ## Plant (yellow musk creeper, shambling mound)
> Pudding, black
> ## Roper
> * Shadow
> Slug, giant
> Stirge
> Svirfneblin
> Toad (giant, fire, poisonous)
> Trapper
> Tunnel Worm
> Worm, purple
>
> Water, any
> Fish
>
> Water, coast
> Crab, giant
> ## Hag, sea
> * Kapoacinth
> Sea Lion
>
> Water, fresh
> Beetle, water
> Crayfish, giant
> Frog (giant, killer, poisonous)
> Nixie
>
> Water, salt
> Dolphin
> Kelpie
> Merman
> Octopus, giant
> Sahuagin
> Sirine
> Squid, giant
> Whale (common, orca)
>
>
> Till we meet again...
>
> - the Falcon

[Kenneth Gauck]

>Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
>PC race in Birthright?

IMC their race did not survive the events and aftermath of Diesmaar.

[Sidhain]

Gnomes?
Well my take has always been why have two Dwarf like races
basically Gnomes, Swarves, and Kobolds are various names for similar/same
folkloric/lefendary creatures, AD*D turned them into distinct creatures yet
they weren't really just different cultures words for what amounted to the
"Same" creature (sometimes its hard to divine which creature is trully the
same or not in folklore, but gnomes and Dwarves are ultimatly cultural
representations of the same thing in legend)
I am glad that they chose not to include gnomes, because me in particular
get tired of AD&Ding every critter into something that doesn't make sense in
every campaign world. Gnomes really don't fit the feel of Birthright,
Halflings woulnd't either if it hadn't been for the changes from AD&D
standards that make them unique in BR...notice all the Races are NOT just as
in the AD&D PHB, Elves are taller, they don't get any of the combat bonus
etc...Halflings can see into the shadows and step into the shadows they are
very different than the PHB concept of them I like that I don't feel a need
to eveen use half the D&Dish mosnters presented, using Folklore and LEgen of
Real world earth as my guide...(for example I have one Gorgan, big guy with
sword) I don't have otyughs, I don't have the ooze/slimes and Jellies....
they just don't fit my Birthright.

[Pieter Sleijpen]

As far as I know, in Dutch folklore dwarf, gnome and kobold are
distinctively different races. Dwarves are very similar to those of
AD&D, though they are well known for greed. The gnomes could either be
best compared with brownies in character and size or forest gnomes with
the size of brownies, while kobolds would be the redcaps.

Pieter Sleijpen

[Sidhain]

>As far as I know, in Dutch folklore dwarf, gnome and kobold are
>distinctively different races. Dwarves are very similar to those of
>AD&D, though they are well known for greed. The gnomes could either be
>best compared with brownies in character and size or forest gnomes with
>the size of brownies, while kobolds would be the redcaps.
>
>Pieter Sleijpen


Yes the Dutch they managed to gather legends from a lot of places, I was
thinking chiefly of the Teutonic beliefs systems of the Gauls, Early Franks,
and Bretons.

[Samuel Weiss]

Ordinary gnomes are fine fellows, with much to offer any world.
Those unnatural abominations of Krynn on the other hand, should be
exterminated at the first opportunity, along with thier cohorts in
perversity, the gully things and kender.

Samwise
AKA, X the Ungnome

[geeman]

Andreas Kjeldsen wrote:

> > Forest
> > ......
> > Gnome, forest
>
> > Hills
> > .........
> > Gnome, rock
>
> Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
> PC race in Birthright?

Their dumb.

OK, this is just my personal opinion, but I've never liked gnomes. They seem
like a throwback to the pre-Tolkien view of fantasy where all sylvan races of
beings were these flitty sorts of creatures that had more "cuteness factor"
than actual character.

I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but I've always felt gnomes are
a half-assed hybrid of two already existing and well fleshed out AD&D races:
halflings and dwarves. I get a big, "what's th point in that?" reaction out of
them. They seem like dwarvish halflings or halflingish dwarves. In either
case, who needs 'em? Not I. I've never understood the point in allowing them
to become illusionists, I've never thought the "tinker" version of the race was
more interesting or entertaining, and I don't really dig technology in a
fantasy RPG anyway, so I think they are doubly pointless.

This hasn't been a big deal in my gaming life. I just don't use gnomes. No
problem. It hasn't really been a problem for players in my campaigns either.
There doesn't seem to be a big burning desire to play gnomes amongst my
players. Go figure.

Gary

[Olesens]

I agree with you 100%. I've only had one player ever with a gnome (and I tried to
talk him out of it) and then I did not allow him to be an illusionist (it was in
BR).

> Do anyone have some thoughts on why the gnomes weren't included as a
> > PC race in Birthright?
>
> Their dumb.
>
> OK, this is just my personal opinion, but I've never liked gnomes. They seem
> like a throwback to the pre-Tolkien view of fantasy where all sylvan races of
> beings were these flitty sorts of creatures that had more "cuteness factor"
> than actual character.
>
> I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but I've always felt gnomes are
> a half-assed hybrid of two already existing and well fleshed out AD&D races:
> halflings and dwarves. I get a big, "what's th point in that?" reaction out of
> them. They seem like dwarvish halflings or halflingish dwarves. In either
> case, who needs 'em? Not I. I've never understood the point in allowing them
> to become illusionists, I've never thought the "tinker" version of the race was
> more interesting or entertaining, and I don't really dig technology in a
> fantasy RPG anyway, so I think they are doubly pointless.
>
> This hasn't been a big deal in my gaming life. I just don't use gnomes. No
> problem. It hasn't really been a problem for players in my campaigns either.
> There doesn't seem to be a big burning desire to play gnomes amongst my
> players. Go figure.
>
> Gary

[WILLELA@aol.co]

Not to be a gnome defender especially (I never played one by choice.), but
the more races the better. We got a Complete Book of Humanoids, and consider
that insufficient. No reason not to have gnomes in Birthright.
Yours for deeper dungeons
David Argall

[Bob Cauthron]

> This hasn't been a big deal in my gaming life. I just don't use gnomes.
No
> problem. It hasn't really been a problem for players in my campaigns
either.
> There doesn't seem to be a big burning desire to play gnomes amongst my
> players. Go figure.
>
> Gary

Rarely have I had a player who wanted to roleplay a gnome. I do,
however, have them in my game. There are two kinds: one based off the
Shannaran books by Terry Brooks, and the other emulating the gnomes in
Elizabeth Moon's fine trilogy. For gm purposes they have suited me well. For
players in my various campaigns, they are practically unnoticed as pcs.

Bob

[DURKS95@aol.co]

Cerilia does in fact have minotaurs. There are minotaurs in the Bloodskull
Barony in the Rjurik lands if I'm not mistaken.

Derek

[Morg]

In my non Birthright game world, I have the gnome race being based on the one
found in the 'Shannara' series.
Slightly shorter than humans, built more like an elf, slightly yellowish rubbery
skin, and above all - most 'un gnomish' (In the AD&D/Dragonlance sense.)
I have not introduced them into Cerilia, but I suppose they might work if they
came from the far east, or perhaps even Aduria.

Morg

WILLELA@aol.com wrote:

> Not to be a gnome defender especially (I never played one by choice.), but
> the more races the better. We got a Complete Book of Humanoids, and consider
> that insufficient. No reason not to have gnomes in Birthright.
> Yours for deeper dungeons
> David Argall
> ************************************************** *************************
> > - --
"It is when I am struggling to be brief that I become unintelligible."
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