The Sons/Daughters of the Gods

[Olesens]

I was recently reading about Larame in the Book of Priestcraft and found
out that she is probably in love with Cuiraicen. Now my question is,
what kind of son/daughter god would they have?

Assuming that Benelik and Krisha do have a child god, I think it'll be a
boy. Eoele is very close to being on former Azrai's side, and think
Benelik-Krisha's son would marry Eoele. Am I alone here or still making
sense? What kind of son/daughter god would Eoele and
as-of-yet-unborn-son-of-Benelik-and-Krisha have?

- -Andrew

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Olesens wrote:

> I was recently reading about Larame in the Book of Priestcraft and found
> out that she is probably in love with Cuiraicen. Now my question is,
> what kind of son/daughter god would they have?

Well, lets see here. Lets do some alchemy... a god of flame marries a god
of wind/storm/lightning. Sounds like you end up with either smoke, or
perhaps electricity. Now, the Cerilians aren't likely to require a god of
electricity until they do a whole lot more technological advancement (St.
Leibowitz anyone?), but smoke might be interesting. Connotes to me perhaps
some kind of craftwork, the forge, etc. the humans don't really have a
crafter's god (Sera just doesn't seem to fit very well).

> Assuming that Benelik and Krisha do have a child god, I think it'll be a
> boy.

The problem, alchemically, with this combination is that in many ways, the
two are opposites, Kriesha cold, moist and calm; Belenik hot, dry and
active, so there isn't any real "open niche." They also seem to divide
most "evil portfolios" between themselves and Eloele pretty evenly. About
the only thing really missing might be a god of secrets/lies/corruption.
That god might be a useful foil (esp. for the more bureaucratic cultures
like Anuire and Khinasi). And I can see it happening if Belenik took
advantage of Kriesha and she had the child and raised him in secrecy. The
necessary subtlety is much more Kriesha's style. Or perhaps a god of
disease/destruction/plague if Belenik had a hand in his upbringing.

Eoele is very close to being on former Azrai's side, and think
> Benelik-Krisha's son would marry Eoele. Am I alone here or still making
> sense? What kind of son/daughter god would Eoele and
> as-of-yet-unborn-son-of-Benelik-and-Krisha have?

I suppose if B&K had a son-god of disease/plague, he and eleole might in
turn have the son-god of secrets/lies/corruption. But I can't really see
Eloele being attracted to such a god.

Who am I to say?

Besides, what's the gestation period of a god, anyway? Or perhaps gods can
only become "fertile" when there is a cultural "need" for a new organizing
princlple. And then, the only "fertile" combinations are the ones that
could produce the necessary offspring.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[Gary V. Foss]

Mark A Vandermeulen wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Olesens wrote:
>
> > I was recently reading about Larame in the Book of Priestcraft and found
> > out that she is probably in love with Cuiraicen. Now my question is,
> > what kind of son/daughter god would they have?
>
> Well, lets see here. Lets do some alchemy... a god of flame marries a god
> of wind/storm/lightning. Sounds like you end up with either smoke, or
> perhaps electricity. Now, the Cerilians aren't likely to require a god of
> electricity until they do a whole lot more technological advancement (St.
> Leibowitz anyone?), but smoke might be interesting.

Ooh, a Walter Miller reference. I'll take Obscure Sci-Fi Authors for $1000,
Alex....

There are a couple of other aspects of these two gods that could be factored
into any godly eugenics. Cuiraecen is also a war god and Laerme has love and
art in her portfolio. Love and war.... Hmmm. Jealousy? Art and storms....
Some sort of passion aspect maybe? Lust? Laerme is a patron of bards, maybe a
godly offspring of her's and Cuiraecen's would have epic poetry aspect.

> > Assuming that Benelik and Krisha do have a child god, I think it'll be a
> > boy.
>
> The problem, alchemically, with this combination is that in many ways, the
> two are opposites, Kriesha cold, moist and calm; Belenik hot, dry and
> active, so there isn't any real "open niche." They also seem to divide
> most "evil portfolios" between themselves and Eloele pretty evenly. About
> the only thing really missing might be a god of secrets/lies/corruption.
> That god might be a useful foil (esp. for the more bureaucratic cultures
> like Anuire and Khinasi). And I can see it happening if Belenik took
> advantage of Kriesha and she had the child and raised him in secrecy. The
> necessary subtlety is much more Kriesha's style. Or perhaps a god of
> disease/destruction/plague if Belenik had a hand in his upbringing.

I get some sort of strange vibe off this combination, like their offspring
would be some sort of monstrosity like the multi-armed and headed titans of the
Greeks. Maybe s/he might have divine aspects, but maybe it would simply be a
huge hack 'n' slash monster.... On the other hand, you could see such a being
as being the god(dess) of revenge, fear, hatred or something like that.

You know, it just occurred to me that there really isn't a god or goddess of
death in the BR pantheon, per se. Several gods skirt around the issue, but a
god that actually embodies the concept of death or is in charge of ushering the
souls of the departed hither and thither when they croak is pretty much
absent. Kind of strange considering how many of the gods have war or something
like it in their portfolios.... I suppose the defunct Azrai could have
occupied that niche, but it seems like such an important aspect of a god would
have been passed on that trait at the big pop at Deismaar.

Anyone have any thoughts on this omission?

Gary

[Gabriel]

JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:

> taking death into her portfolio. >>
>
> This is true, but it also says that this idea actually stems from the
> contemplations of theologians and religious scholars, who are just men, which
> means they can be prone to wishful thinking. As the Shadow World grows ever
> more powerful and closer to the mortal world, and more and more creatures of
> darkness break through the barrier, the more fearful men become of that fell
> place. And it sounds mighty appealing to think that Neserie will start
> taking charge of protecting their souls from abuse in the afterlife!

Well, yes, but remember that all of this discussion about divine offspring is
based on relationships that are also speculation on the part of sages.
Personally, I sort of believe that the Gods have become somewhat removed from the
mortal sphere of things in the past milennia. How else could they turn a blind
eye to things such as the Gorgon rampaging through Anuire. Or, hell, I don't see
an active Haelyn just letting his nephew (many times removed) destroy the empire,
and all that would have required is a vision (probably). So I think it more
likely that the current Gods will try and expand their own portfolios rather than
raise new gods to take over the gaps in the areas of influence. (And I don't see
any accidental births among the divine crowd, at least not among this group).

Just a couple of random thoughts,
Alaric

[Mark A Vandermeulen]

On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Gary V. Foss wrote:

> There are a couple of other aspects of these two gods that could be factored
> into any godly eugenics. Cuiraecen is also a war god and Laerme has love and
> art in her portfolio. Love and war.... Hmmm. Jealousy? Art and storms....
> Some sort of passion aspect maybe? Lust? Laerme is a patron of bards,
maybe a
> godly offspring of her's and Cuiraecen's would have epic poetry aspect.

I though a little bit along those lines as well, but it seems to me that
most of those things are already included as part of some other existing
god's portfolio. Passion is really part of both Laerme AND Nesirie's
portfolios, and I really see Laerme as goddess of both lust AND love. In
some ways, the Cerilian gods are much "wider" or "well rounded" than your
typical god/dess (i.e. FR) which in general I think is a good thing. I
can't really see Cerilia needing a god of epic poetry...

> I get some sort of strange vibe off this combination, like their offspring
> would be some sort of monstrosity like the multi-armed and headed
titans of the
> Greeks. Maybe s/he might have divine aspects, but maybe it would simply be a
> huge hack 'n' slash monster.... On the other hand, you could see such a being
> as being the god(dess) of revenge, fear, hatred or something like that.

Again, revenge and hatred I would ascribe to Kriesha, and fear to Belenik.
But you multi-limbed titan idea does have a certain charm.

> You know, it just occurred to me that there really isn't a god or goddess of
> death in the BR pantheon, per se. Several gods skirt around the issue, but a
> god that actually embodies the concept of death or is in charge of ushering the
> souls of the departed hither and thither when they croak is pretty much
> absent. Kind of strange considering how many of the gods have war or something
> like it in their portfolios.... I suppose the defunct Azrai could have
> occupied that niche, but it seems like such an important aspect of a god would
> have been passed on that trait at the big pop at Deismaar.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts on this omission?

Well, remember that the Book of Preisthood mentions that Nesirie is slowly
taking death into her portfolio. Perhaps if Haelyn and Nesirie have
another child, that child will take over the death aspect. Or perhaps
Nesirie & Eric. It also seems to me that in the olden days (preDeismaar)
each god was a "full-service" god for his/her individual tribe. Thus, each
god would have to fulfill all religious requirements for his/her tribe
from birth to death. It's only after the exile, and the mixing of ideas
between cultures in Cerilia, that the gods become anything like a pantheon
(and have to in order to defeat a much more powerful Azrai). However, the
old god's champions were much more familiar with this idea (having been
raised with at least the beginnings of the concept), and are now starting
to specialize.

Mark VanderMeulen
vander+@pitt.edu

[JNeighb934@aol.co]

In a message dated 04/01/99 18:29:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
GeeMan@linkline.com writes:

[JNeighb934@aol.co]

In a message dated 04/02/99 5:58:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
vander+@pitt.edu writes:

>

This is true, but it also says that this idea actually stems from the
contemplations of theologians and religious scholars, who are just men, which
means they can be prone to wishful thinking. As the Shadow World grows ever
more powerful and closer to the mortal world, and more and more creatures of
darkness break through the barrier, the more fearful men become of that fell
place. And it sounds mighty appealing to think that Neserie will start
taking charge of protecting their souls from abuse in the afterlife!

[Pieter Sleijpen]

I suddenly realise, that for all we know, Rilni might actually take the
roll of the death god on him. He is as mysterious as death and he is
certainly very concerned with the Shadow World and all those undead.

Pieter Sleijpen

JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 04/02/99 5:58:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> vander+@pitt.edu writes:
>
> taking death into her portfolio. >>
>
> This is true, but it also says that this idea actually stems from the
> contemplations of theologians and religious scholars, who are just men, which
> means they can be prone to wishful thinking. As the Shadow World grows ever
> more powerful and closer to the mortal world, and more and more creatures of
> darkness break through the barrier, the more fearful men become of that fell
> place. And it sounds mighty appealing to think that Neserie will start
> taking charge of protecting their souls from abuse in the afterlife!
> ************************************************** *************************
> > 'unsubscribe birthright' as the body of the message.

[Jeff Dunnett]

Actually there is a reason that the gods on Cerila aren't active. They
don't mention it in the book of priestcraft but they mention it in On
Hallowed Ground and priest supplement on planescape, it's something
about an agreement between the gods of other pantheons or something
like that. I don't have the product here with me so I don't know for
sure.

- --- Gabriel wrote:
>
>
> JNeighb934@aol.com wrote:
>
> > mentions that Nesirie is slowly
> > taking death into her portfolio. >>
> >
> > This is true, but it also says that this idea
> actually stems from the
> > contemplations of theologians and religious
> scholars, who are just men, which
> > means they can be prone to wishful thinking. As
> the Shadow World grows ever
> > more powerful and closer to the mortal world, and
> more and more creatures of
> > darkness break through the barrier, the more
> fearful men become of that fell
> > place. And it sounds mighty appealing to think
> that Neserie will start
> > taking charge of protecting their souls from abuse
> in the afterlife!
>
> Well, yes, but remember that all of this discussion
> about divine offspring is
> based on relationships that are also speculation on
> the part of sages.
> Personally, I sort of believe that the Gods have
> become somewhat removed from the
> mortal sphere of things in the past milennia. How
> else could they turn a blind
> eye to things such as the Gorgon rampaging through
> Anuire. Or, hell, I don't see
> an active Haelyn just letting his nephew (many times
> removed) destroy the empire,
> and all that would have required is a vision
> (probably). So I think it more
> likely that the current Gods will try and expand
> their own portfolios rather than
> raise new gods to take over the gaps in the areas of
> influence. (And I don't see
> any accidental births among the divine crowd, at
> least not among this group).
>
> Just a couple of random thoughts,
> Alaric
>
>> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to
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>

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[Gary V. Foss]

Jeff Dunnett wrote:

> Actually there is a reason that the gods on Cerila aren't active. They
> don't mention it in the book of priestcraft but they mention it in On
> Hallowed Ground and priest supplement on planescape, it's something
> about an agreement between the gods of other pantheons or something
> like that. I don't have the product here with me so I don't know for
> sure.
>
> --- Gabriel wrote:

IIRC, the agreement was within the pantheon and had to do with them never
wanting to have a second Deismaar occur, so there was a kind of hands off
policy to prevent that.

Gary